Haloface

This week, it's history's most decisive conflicts.
Argue what you believe to be the most decisive or the most influencial battle/conflict/fight in history
Your opinion on the battle itself, why it was as substantial as you believe it to be, and hell, the alternatives if it had gone a different way, are all welcome.
Remember, battles and conflicts. We're not talking entire wars here.

A) The Battle of Marathon (Greece v Persia, 490 BC) - Confronting the Persian invasion, a united Greek army victoriously defended what some would call today, Western civilization. The East came very close to prevailing over the Western world.

B) The Battle of Zama (Carthage v Rome, Punic Wars) - After recieving perhaps the most impressive victory in history when the Carthaginians defeated the biggest Roman army ever assembled, killing 50, 000 men, Hannibal was then later himself defeated, paving the way for the beginnings of empire for Rome, and forming the shape of civilization to come. Who knows what world we would live in today if Hannibal had prevailed in bringing Rome to ruin?

C) The Battle of Adrianople (Goths v Rome, 378 AD.. I think) - Romans again. Their humiliating defeat at the hands of the oppressed Goths living under Roman rule for some time. This effectively exposed Roman weakness and arguably, among other things, lead to Rome's demise.

D) The Battle of Tours (Muslims v Franks, 732 AD) - Another one of those "defending Western civilization" conflicts. Islamic crusade type mentality lead an Arab army of Islam through Iberia, over the Pyrenees, and in to France, the furthest any Islamic army came, or would again, in to Europe. Overwhelmingly outnumbered, the Frankish army managed to defend Tours and kill the Muslim general, causing the retreat of the Islamic army back over the Pyrenees, where they stayed. If the French had not beaten the muslims, the religious face of Europe could be extremely different today.

E) The Battle of Hastings (Anglo-Saxons v Knights of Normandy, 1066) - Although having just beaten the last ever Viking army to attack Britain, King Harold of the Anglo-Saxon kingdom in England marched some some 200 miles within a week to confront William the Conqueror ahead a Normandy army. Being defeated meant the Normandy reign over England, and the utter reformation of the island, bringing it out of the Dark Ages and more alike to its Roman form some 400 years before. If Harold's Anglo-Saxon army had prevailed on the hill of Hastings, the ramifications to Europe, and so the world, would be obviously tremendously different today. No America? No Australia? No French set-backs?

F) The Battle of Samarkand (Mongols v Persians, 750 AD) - Pesky Persians again, being defeated by the Khan, paving the way for some 200 years of Mongolian rule which shaped the face of Asia and the Middle East, in particular the revolutionary transcending of the silk trade road for the first time ever.

G) The Battle of Yorktown (United States v United Kingdom, War of Independence) - Perhaps the most decisive battle in the war, contributing to America's ultimate independence and, obviously, America becoming the West's most influential nation to the present day. Who knows the consequences of an American defeat? What would the British empire have achieved that it didn't, with the colossus US as a colony?

H) The Battle of Waterloo (France vs. Britain and Prussia, Napoleonic Wars) - The victory by Britain and Prussia that brought about the end of the Napoleonic Wars, sending its catalystic emporer Napoleon in to exile and humiliation. The victory ensured the balance of power in Europe, and quashed, finally, massive French dominance and expansion that begun with Louis XV.

I) The Fall of Constantinople (Byzantine Empire v Ottoman Turks, 1442) - 1100 years of Roman empire spread across the face of Europe and Asia Minor successfully came to an end with the siege of Constantinople and the fall of the city in 1442. Byzantium was, perhaps, Europe's shield from the rest of the world, and had taken the brunt of assault since its creation by Constantine the Great. It's fall and occupation were the beginnings of a thriving and massive Ottoman Empire, and ultimate muslim possession of the Holy Lands.

J) And now, I'm torn. Of course I've come to WW2 and cannot think of a single, concrete representation of decisiveness for the conflict. The battle of Stalingrad, D-Day, Midway.. too many to choose from. I guess "J" is up for grabs, lads :P

Anywho, choose your favourite, or feel free to mention one without a letter.

Thormir

Charles Martel stopping the Islamic horde is tops on my list (at least from the selections given).

Gulor Gularin

I would probably go with Marathon and probably the later fight against Xerxes after Thermopylae, simply due to the time the effects have had to build. If Persia conquers Greece and holds it, it's possible most of the later conflicts would not have occured. No Roman Empire, Carthage, or even christianity or islam for that matter. Who knows how western/northern europe would have turned out (celtic empire maybe?). A fascinating "what if" scenario.

Selwen Soulgazer

Probably the most decisive point in any war was when The US dropped the bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Willgatus Airslasher

In the big picture, I'll have to agree with Thormir. Tours was the big one.

Zama wasn't relevant enough to be on the list. Rome had established some extent of thallasocracy over the Mediterranean already, and Carthage no longer had the potential to pose a threat by then.

As far as a WWII point J goes, the arc of Kursk is the obvious choice as a decisive battle, though the Ploesti bombing raids were also pretty important.

Slight nitpick, by the way - Constantinople fell in 1453.

lamascsi

Stalingrad

Anterak

Pearl Harbor without any doubt.

trimlock

i don't know if you can count pearl harbor or not, it was an attack initiated by the japanese, and ended up working against them in the long run

Laeyakk

Battle of Britian for WWII?

If the British airforce had fallen to the Germans, Britian would most likely have fallen, and Germany would have had only one opponent: Russia.

If Germany then defeated Russia, the Axis would have been able to conquor the world. USA/Canada/Austrailia could not match the combined industrial output of Greater Germany, Japan and a subjugated Russia France Britian and China. If the USA was lucky, they could use the nuke to invoke a stalemate, and we would have a very much different cold war.

If instead Russia defeated Germany, the lack of a base in Britian would have meant that Russia would have conquored most of Western Europe. Western Europe wouldn't have had been free, and the USA would have to rely on coopting Africa and Asia to win the cold war against the USSR.

Esbat

Tours is Huge.

But I'll have to go with Pearl Harbor as well. In terms of being "Decisive" it was the event that led to the US deciding to enter the war months/years before they otherwise may have.