Crist0

As most of you are aware, the official stance for SOE in regards to camps *was* a) camps do not exist and b) the first ready to engage/spawn cycle has claim to said mob/cycle. That policy has changed now, according to our new server GM Jaanbaz.

A little background:

A few of uswere finishing up a guildmate beastlord's epic in Timorous. Being the first to arrive, I noticed the guild "Zone" had about a dozen people sitting around the scout. I sat nearby waiting for them to kill it so I could tell the people coming not to bother.

After 30 minutes of waiting and watching more of them slowly trickle in, everyone from my group had arrived(7 of us). I was discussing the matter with the shaman from their raid and discovered they had already been there for over half an hour even before I got there. At this point, since my group was ready, I asked them to engage or move aside so that we could. They replied they were still waiting for more people.

After having over an hour to prep and still sitting there unready to engage, I told our beastlord to turn in his coin and start the cycle. I had given them first shot after all, and informed them that if they didn't take the mob at that time our group would.

Our beastlord turns in his coin and starts the cycle, and we start killing the 6 spawned mobs from the turn in. At this point Tigaman sends me a tell saying he killed the scout(who our beastlord is to turn in the drops from the spawned mobs). I run up to verify this is so(it was), and receive tells from the shaman helping them that I had talked with earlier(notoriousraptor) informing me that Tigaman had killed the quest mob.

I run back down in time to see Tigaman and others from his guild training every raptor they could get their hands as well as the remaining 4 spawned mobs we had been single pulling onto our group, and attempt to kill those remaining spawned mobs. Great, 4 of us die..and so do a good number of them. They also managed to knock off and loot 2 of the spawned mobs our beastlord needed.

Immediately I petition, and while that is happening I get super lucky...Tigaman sends me a tell gloating that he killed our quest mob after the cycle has started, and laughing that our beastlord now has to start his epic over since he did not get the drops from the spawned mobs and had already turned in his coin. I send a /tell to the new server GM, Jaanbaz, informing her that we had trouble with people training/killstealing/killing our quest mob.

Jaanbaz tells me she is looking at the petition, and asks me to send in /reports of Tigaman's tells(which he is still sending). I send in about 8 reports(yeah, he was sending that many tells), and inform the beastlord who the raid was for(who was also laughing and taunting directly to him that he now had to restart his epic) and the other people with us to report their tells from Tigaman.

Now, I'm thinking we have him dead to rights at this point. We triggered the cycle after giving them over an hour to prepare with them still not ready, we have several people who /reported Tigaman sending tells that he killed the scout and laughing that our beastlord has to start his epic over. I'm even getting tells now from his guildmates there to help him informing me to let the gm's know they saw him kill and train us to screw up our beastlord's epic.

The Jaanbaz lets me know he/she is looking at all of the reports now and will be with me in a minute. After a bit Jaanbaz asks me to join the csrresolutions channel.

Here is the log from that(I also have screenshots of what happened before the log, however I can not host them. If someone wants to host them I will send them to you.):

[Mon Oct 20 18:58:38 2003] Jaanbaz tells you, 'Do you have any guild officer/ Leader who can represent your guild on at this time?'
[Mon Oct 20 18:58:47 2003] You told Jaanbaz, 'i am an officer'
[Mon Oct 20 18:58:52 2003] You told Jaanbaz, 'the guild leader is not on atm'
[Mon Oct 20 18:59:00 2003] Jaanbaz tells you, 'Please join CSRResolution channel'
[Mon Oct 20 18:59:15 2003] Channel CSRResolution(3) members:
[Mon Oct 20 18:59:15 2003] ^Jaanbaz, Madruid, Jharassik
[Mon Oct 20 18:59:19 2003] You tell CSRResolution:2, 'hello'
[Mon Oct 20 18:59:27 2003] Madruid tells CSRResolution:2, 'hi'
[Mon Oct 20 18:59:42 2003] Jaanbaz tells CSRResolution:2, 'Alright here is deal'
[Mon Oct 20 19:00:32 2003] Jaanbaz tells CSRResolution:2, 'I have my petition queue full of petitions from both of your guilds. The first thing that I want you all to understand is that sending in multiple petitions regarding the same issue will not get a quick resolution for the,'
[Mon Oct 20 19:01:02 2003] Jaanbaz tells CSRResolution:2, 'It only affects our ability to assist you.'
[Mon Oct 20 19:02:05 2003] Jaanbaz tells CSRResolution:2, 'Two - From what I take it is that there are issues among each other from both groups '
[Mon Oct 20 19:02:28 2003] Jaanbaz tells CSRResolution:2, 'Do I have both of you here and paying attention?'
[Mon Oct 20 19:02:35 2003] You tell CSRResolution:2, 'I am here'
[Mon Oct 20 19:02:43 2003] Madruid tells CSRResolution:2, 'yes'
[Mon Oct 20 19:04:52 2003] Jaanbaz tells CSRResolution:2, 'Now, As a GM if we have to interfere in this situation, we will have to take harsh action against you. If this becomes a support issue we will have to fix it completely'
[Mon Oct 20 19:05:49 2003] Madruid tells CSRResolution:2, 'thats it they get away with taking our camp after we were there hour before n e one from there guild got here and when they zoned in i said scout is ours'
[Mon Oct 20 19:06:16 2003] You tell CSRResolution:2, 'if i may, when you are finished jaanbaz'
[Mon Oct 20 19:07:05 2003] Jaanbaz tells CSRResolution:2, 'Now I have two officers of each guild with me & I want this issue to be resolve here mutually. Otherwise we will just be forced to take actio '
[Mon Oct 20 19:07:38 2003] Madruid tells CSRResolution:2, 'Im so pissed i can barly see'
[Mon Oct 20 19:07:46 2003] Jaanbaz tells CSRResolution:2, 'If this occurs again, then the two of you will be held responsibile and this will be noted on each of your accounts'
[Mon Oct 20 19:08:05 2003] Madruid tells CSRResolution:2, 'if he kses my mob again i get in trouble??'
[Mon Oct 20 19:08:13 2003] You tell CSRResolution:2, 'Could I have some clarification please? Because from what I understand the first person on site and ready to engage (or) the first ready group to start a spawned event has rights.'
[Mon Oct 20 19:08:40 2003] Madruid tells CSRResolution:2, 'bro we were there hour before you we were waiting on fallin mate'
[Mon Oct 20 19:09:07 2003] You tell CSRResolution:2, 'I asked them to either engage cycle or stand aside and they replied they were waiting for more when my group was ready to engage. Was I wrong to have my group engage if they had people here but were not ready to start cycle?'
[Mon Oct 20 19:10:02 2003] Madruid tells CSRResolution:2, 'who you think you are tellin us when we have to be rdy we will be rdy when we are rdy'
[Mon Oct 20 19:11:06 2003] Jaanbaz tells you, 'One moment'
[Mon Oct 20 19:11:09 2003] You tell CSRResolution:2, 'I am asking the GM about game policy to understand better if i was misunderstanding game policy'
[Mon Oct 20 19:11:11 2003] You told Jaanbaz, 'ok'
[Mon Oct 20 19:11:42 2003] You told Jaanbaz, 'i'm not trying to be patronizing btw i just thought i was operating under game policy'
[Mon Oct 20 19:11:56 2003] Madruid tells CSRResolution:2, 'its like me buying a soda and you saying drink it now or im gonna drink it'
[Mon Oct 20 19:25:21 2003] Madruid tells CSRResolution:2, 'GM dude isnt here n e way'
[Mon Oct 20 19:25:37 2003] Madruid tells CSRResolution:2, 'im loging off im to pissed to play EQ'
[Mon Oct 20 19:25:58 2003] You tell CSRResolution:2, 'up to you, would think you would like this resolved first'
[Mon Oct 20 19:27:14 2003] Madruid tells CSRResolution:2, 'naa whats there to resolve?'
[Mon Oct 20 19:27:29 2003] You tell CSRResolution:2, 'plenty from where I sit'
[Mon Oct 20 19:28:45 2003] Madruid tells CSRResolution:2, 'you cant even wait for your turn at scout '
[Mon Oct 20 19:29:08 2003] Madruid tells CSRResolution:2, 'I waited hella long for scout hes a 72 hopur spawn'
[Mon Oct 20 19:29:42 2003] Madruid tells CSRResolution:2, 'CSR guy is ignoring or gone or somthing n e way'
[Mon Oct 20 19:29:46 2003] You tell CSRResolution:2, 'if you want to keep taunting me, by all means..i'll keep my responses aimed at the gm since I am interested in resolving this'
[Mon Oct 20 19:30:03 2003] Madruid tells CSRResolution:2, 'you the problem man'
[Mon Oct 20 19:30:12 2003] Madruid tells CSRResolution:2, 'Your rude and greedy'
[Mon Oct 20 19:31:06 2003] Madruid tells CSRResolution:2, 'it floors me to know that you would just take epic mob after i said it was mine'
[Mon Oct 20 19:31:31 2003] Madruid tells CSRResolution:2, 'bye'
[Mon Oct 20 19:31:44 2003] Channel CSRResolution(3) members:
[Mon Oct 20 19:31:44 2003] ^Jaanbaz, Jharassik, Madruid
[Mon Oct 20 19:31:55 2003] You told jaanbaz, 'afk?'
[Mon Oct 20 19:34:00 2003] Jaanbaz tells CSRResolution:2, 'Ok, I am not afk'
[Mon Oct 20 19:34:17 2003] You tell CSRResolution:2, 'ok'
[Mon Oct 20 19:38:32 2003] You tell CSRResolution:2, 'Will it be possible to get a reimburse for licck, since killing the scout effectively erased all of our work on his epic so far?'
[Mon Oct 20 19:43:27 2003] Channel CSRResolution(2) members:
[Mon Oct 20 19:43:27 2003] ^Jaanbaz, Jharassik
[Mon Oct 20 19:44:14 2003] You tell CSRResolution:2, 'are we supposed to be settling this ourselves? He left quite some time ago and I really only have two questions about it atm.'
[Mon Oct 20 19:44:38 2003] Jaanbaz tells CSRResolution:2, 'Give me a few minutes, I am talking to him and I'll then get back with you'
[Mon Oct 20 19:44:50 2003] You tell CSRResolution:2, 'ahh ok making sure i wasnt in time out, thanks'
[Mon Oct 20 19:55:35 2003] You tell CSRResolution:2, 'i would appreciate it if you would stop taunting the person we were raiding epic for ikill'
[Mon Oct 20 20:02:16 2003] Jaanbaz tells CSRResolution:2, 'Alright'
[Mon Oct 20 20:02:21 2003] You tell CSRResolution:2, 'k'
[Mon Oct 20 20:03:12 2003] Jaanbaz tells CSRResolution:2, 'I think I have an understanding with the other guild here. I will reiterate'
[Mon Oct 20 20:04:21 2003] Jaanbaz tells CSRResolution:2, 'There were circumstances here which either of the groups could have avoided'
[Mon Oct 20 20:04:58 2003] Ikill tells CSRResolution:2, 'ehem we said scout was camped he coulda said ok and left'
[Mon Oct 20 20:05:21 2003] Jaanbaz tells CSRResolution:2, 'I do not want any further CS issues between the two guilds. I will be noting the chat I have had on the accounts of both guild officers.'
[Mon Oct 20 20:06:43 2003] You tell CSRResolution:2, 'Was I mistaken about game policy then? Could you clarify where I was mistaken so I do not make the same mistake in the future?'
[Mon Oct 20 20:06:59 2003] Jaanbaz tells CSRResolution:2, 'Again, this should have been resolved without GM intervention, with the groups co-ordinating with each other.'
[Mon Oct 20 20:09:23 2003] You tell CSRResolution:2, 'I was under the assumption from past rulings and statements that there are no camps in eq, and the first to engage or start a cycle had the rights to it. Their group had a full hour to engage before we did, more than thirty minutes of that I was here waiting to see if they did'
[Mon Oct 20 20:13:01 2003] Channel CSRResolution(3) members:
[Mon Oct 20 20:13:01 2003] ^Jaanbaz, Jharassik, Ikill
[Mon Oct 20 20:13:06 2003] Ikill tells CSRResolution:2, 'we done here i mist a meeting at work to do epic i can make it for second half if i go now'
[Mon Oct 20 20:13:53 2003] Jaanbaz tells CSRResolution:2, 'The final verdict is that I just do not want any more issues between these two guilds.'
[Mon Oct 20 20:14:29 2003] Jaanbaz tells CSRResolution:2, 'I am not interested to punish/warn individuals, just I do not want such issues to be taking CS time'
[Mon Oct 20 20:14:39 2003] You tell CSRResolution:2, 'OK, but could you answer my question regarding game policy and possibly reimburse licck for all of his epic work that was erased when the cycle was interfered with?'
[Mon Oct 20 20:14:44 2003] Ikill tells CSRResolution:2, 'there was no guild issue with me there was only about six of them there'
[Mon Oct 20 20:15:33 2003] You tell CSRResolution:2, 'I realize CS time is stretched pretty thin but I was under the assumption I was toeing the line as far as game policy goes'
[Mon Oct 20 20:16:22 2003] Jaanbaz tells CSRResolution:2, 'No, I will not be able to reimburse that. As for the policy decision, KS & taking over spawns from guilds is frowned upon and not acceptable.'
[Mon Oct 20 20:16:35 2003] Jaanbaz tells CSRResolution:2, 'That is in the Rules of Conduct for Everquest'
[Mon Oct 20 20:16:47 2003] You tell CSRResolution:2, 'Ok, why will you not reimburse when you have logs showing him admitting he ksed it'
[Mon Oct 20 20:18:05 2003] You tell CSRResolution:2, 'and my question revolves around the soe policy towards what constitutes a "claimed" mob. Are you stating that mobs can in fact be camped and it is not first to engage/first with the force ready/first to start cycle is not always the rightful owner of spawn?'
[Mon Oct 20 20:19:33 2003] Jaanbaz tells CSRResolution:2, 'Yes the rules revolves around that its not appropriate to attack/KS something that someone else is fighting'
[Mon Oct 20 20:20:00 2003] Jaanbaz tells CSRResolution:2, 'But there are ways to deal with situations like this.. instead of runing it for each other'
[Mon Oct 20 20:20:05 2003] You tell CSRResolution:2, 'so it was our mob, because they had neither engaged nor spawned the epic cycle. They were merely sitting here waitint to do so'
[Mon Oct 20 20:20:24 2003] You tell CSRResolution:2, 'our beastlord started the cycle, you can see why this might be confusing to me'
[Mon Oct 20 20:21:56 2003] Jaanbaz tells CSRResolution:2, 'Agreed. However if a group was preparing for the event, you could have co-ordinated with them or did some type of agreement with them for the event'
[Mon Oct 20 20:22:06 2003] Jaanbaz tells CSRResolution:2, 'It could be using a random number or a duel'
[Mon Oct 20 20:22:34 2003] You tell CSRResolution:2, 'I did ask them if they were prepared, they said they were not prepared yet and we were'
[Mon Oct 20 20:23:10 2003] You tell CSRResolution:2, 'I gave them the first attempt, I asked them to engage or stand aside, at which point they informed us over public channels they were not ready to engage'
[Mon Oct 20 20:24:08 2003] Jaanbaz tells CSRResolution:2, 'I have made a decision in this regard.'
[Mon Oct 20 20:24:39 2003] You tell CSRResolution:2, 'Even with logged proof of them taunting our guildmember after destroying all of the work he has done so far?'
[Mon Oct 20 20:25:15 2003] Jaanbaz tells CSRResolution:2, 'And I would suggest that you try other means in the future and I shall not want any further issues in this regard.'
[Mon Oct 20 20:26:06 2003] Jaanbaz tells CSRResolution:2, 'If you feel that the decision is not what you believe to be correct. Then you can write your concerns on the way your issue was addressed.Our supervisors will review and take the appropriate steps'
[Mon Oct 20 20:26:26 2003] Jaanbaz tells CSRResolution:2, 'You can mail at eqcs@soe.sony.c'

Now I'm getting a little angry towards the end, after Jaanbaz spends over 15 minutes talking with him about what happened and then not talking to me at all about the situation aside from asking for my reports earlier. Not only was our beastlord NOT reimbursed for all of his epic work so far that Tigaman destroyed(with plenty of proof from his own mouth to that effect), but the GM did not even discuss our side of this at all. In effect Jaanbaz inferred that our people were ksing his raid, despite the fact we were there first with the force necessary and we spawned the triggered cycle


What this boils down to is NEW POLICY ON CLAIMING SPAWNS, from the new head GM of our server, Jaanbaz:

1. You do not need to be ready to engage a spawn to claim it. In fact you can take all the time in the world and anyone else showing up has to wait for you, even if they are ready before you are and actually engage the mobs first

2. It is now OK to disrupt events triggered by other people, by killing turn in mobs or even taking mobs from the triggered event so the other group can not complete it.

3. It is now OK to train another group if they have beaten you to a spawn or triggered cycle.

Mondhur Trueoak

Hi!

*rolls eyes*

That was a rather silly GM decision.

Taino

Now I really dislike you for countless personal attacks against me and endless throwing shit at my person... but... This GM is honestly fucked up. If you tell the truth then its in NO way acceptable the GM did not take any action.
Yeah you don't want to have any more fights with this other guild either, but you want your Beastlord to be reimbursed. Of course you do. And its IMO your right.
I am a strong defendant of GMs usually,. but this is not right. This is in fact highly fucked up. As cheap as it gets.

Korl

I can only add the following, I wish I could add more

[Mon Oct 20 20:29:16 2003] Damasque tells CSRResolution:2, 'I am a whore. I can't help it... it's just who I am.'
[Mon Oct 20 20:29:48 2003] Talid tells CSRResolution:2, 'It's ok D-man...sometimes when I wake up I think there are starving dogs in my closet... and simultaneously there is raw meat in my boxers... I don't know why this happens, but I can tell you this... it really gets my motor revving (if you know what I mean).'
[Mon Oct 20 20:29:59 2003] Damasque tells CSRResolution:2, 'hold me Talid!'
[Mon Oct 20 20:30:10 2003] Talid tells CSRResolution:2, 'Yes... Yes.... YES... OH GOD YES!'

Hubbe

These zone guys sound retarded from your logs..

Hope one of them gets on here and defends their actions..


Wohoo a decent flame thread! =)

Crist0

Actually only some of them are like that imo, several actually sent me tells not only apologizing for what happened, but telling me to let the gms know they saw him kill the mobs and train and would testify about it to them.

One Zone member there even deguilded over it.

SHAtrius

Just sit there until they come back to do the epic turn in, then screw it up for them. You'll be in the "right" because you were there first.

Lizidiarking

Wow! This is what we get to look forward to? Damn them for taking Brioma away from us.

Baltyn

Great we loose a damn good lead gm to a fucking yes boy afraid to do his damn job. I say send everything you have to that email the gm gave you for shits and giggles and see what happens

Crist0

I sent the email this morning before I even posted this btw, it also contained the log and I sent the screenshots of his tells as well(I realize they do not go by either, but they're there all the same).