mirdorr

In the course of many flame wars, some people have professed a desire to learn more about other countries. I was reading an EXCELLENT series of articles in The Economist this weekend; they did a series of articles on America and American "exceptionalism" - the things that makes America different.

First, The Economist is an excellent, usually unbiased, magazine. I highly recommend it. In addition, this particular series of articles was pretty dang interesting. Finally, I'll be damned if the entire series of articles isn't online!

I wanted to post the following excerpt about American patriotism. Several people have expressed concerns about the rise of U.S. patriotism in the last few years. This is an excerpt that might help you understand what patriotism is to us:

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Europeans have long been bothered by this feature of American life. De Tocqueville again: “There is nothing more annoying...than this irritable patriotism of the Americans.” But since September 11th the Europeans have become even more disturbed. They associate patriotism with militarism, intolerance and ethnic strife. No wonder they consider it an alarming quality in the world's most powerful country.

Yet European and American patriotism are different. Patriotic Europeans take pride in a nation, a tract of land or a language they are born into. You cannot become un-French. In contrast, patriotic Americans have a dual loyalty: both to their country and to the ideas it embodies. “He loved his country,” said Lincoln of Henry Clay, “partly because it was his own country, but mostly because it was a free country.” As the English writer G.K. Chesterton said in 1922, America is the only country based on a creed, enshrined in its constitution and declaration of independence. People become American by adopting the creed, regardless of their own place of birth, parentage or language. And you can become un-American—by rejecting the creed.
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This particular article can be found here:
www.economist.com/display...id=2172144
The entire series of articles can be found here:
www.economist.com/display...id=2172066

Be sure to read the articles listed in the Related Items section. There's lots to read; there's even a section I found interesting on Evangelical Protestantism . I did not know that it has become the most widespread religion in the U.S. The article on religion is "Therapy of the Masses."

I also didn't know that U.S. birthrates/fertility rates were back up to the point to sustain and or grow the population, whereas European Union birthrates are at the point we were in the 80's - not enough births to sustain and grow the population.

Again, excellent magazine and excellent series of articles.

Haloface

OMG HERE IS THE COCKROACHES DONT BEAT A DEAD HORSE WTF OMGOSH

Is what any of us would recieve in bringing this topic up.
Just one thing..

'but mostly because it was a free country.”'

- The one with all the slavery? Cool beans.

Mukaz

Halo, the quote came from a man who gave his life bringing the promise of freedom to all those slaves. Your nation's history isn't free of the blemish of slavery either.

Gulor Gularin

Very true about the dead horse beating. Ah well, *breaks out the horsewhip*.

Anyway, I would just like to point out we got our slavery situation started by good ole England in the first place so don't get too smug. Took us forty years longer to get rid of it, but other countries took even longer than us (see Brazil).

Interesting read. I'm not sure I agree with all of it, but some of it I do.

Ailwon

"Halo, the quote came from a man who gave his life bringing the promise of freedom to all those slaves. Your nation's history isn't free of the blemish of slavery either."

Not free from the blemish named Halo either

Haloface

'Your nation's history isn't free of the blemish of slavery either. '

- I'm not the one saying it is though, am I?
Just.. stop pretending your country was built on equality and freedom. And I'll stop pretending we all look like James Bond.

Although I can do an uncanny Sean Connery impression.

Ailwon

"stop pretending your country was built on equality and freedom."

Better stated, it was built with the goal of equality and freedom...there have been many mistakes made (and they continue today) but the goal is there.

I especially like doing impressions of Connery as done on SNL..


"So...we meet again..Trebeck!!" :rollin

Kivorn

Okey I'm gonna edit that one out and explain myself further.

American is the only nation of today that incorporates the true spirit of liberalism. America is indeed a liberal's dream... if you limit it to the nation alone. The paradox is that America mostly dig themselves in and play hard ball across the mostly anarcistic world order of today, something which can be illustrated by pointing out that the US military budget alone equals all of the other nations in the world combined.

That, combined with the intense patriotism (which any psychologist can tell you is a defensive-reactive mindset) contradicts the concept of liberalism completely. Also, conservatives of the nations openly and repeatedly thrash "liberals", a phrase that which in many respects have turned into a bad word in many circuits.

So what you have in america is a self-contradiction. A nation, the only nation, based completely on the concept of liberalism, that in many regards opposes the world around it, and who completely ignores the doctrine of "l'aissez faire" (a doctrine I personally do not support, but something that is essential in true liberalism).

Mukaz

Actually, our country was built on the backs of slaves and indentured servants. It was built by religious outcasts and criminals. It was administered by greedy royalty and predatory merchants.

Eventually a group of people began to believe there was something better and sought to change that, recreating our country with different principles in mind.

Those principles were not universally applied overnight but they remain the principles that we live by and continue to try and assure for ourselves and for anyone else who wishes to embrace them despite the fact that we frequently quarrel among ourselves about how best to do that.

Ailwon

"That, combined with the intense patriotism (which any psychologist can tell you is a defensive-reactive mindset) contradicts the concept of liberalism completely."

Although I could find no evidence supporting on contracting this statement, I personally do not believe it. I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. I consider myself extremly patriotic, however socially I would be considered by most, to be fairly liberal.

"Also, conservatives of the nations openly and repeatedly thrash "liberals", a phrase that which in many respects have turned into a bad word in many circuits."

Granted the right wing conservatives are getting more air time now, but the liberals had their time too. During the Clinton adminitration "the moral minority" was the buzz word (at least prior to a certain cigar wielding incident :')

"that in many regards opposes the world around it"

Don't confuse America with the current adminstration. I agree that right now the US is in a distinctly "anti-liberal" environment due to the current administration and those in power. Personally I think there are movements back and forth in this country, from left to right and back...hopefully overall landing some where in the middle. Let's face it a completly liberal country would be chaotic and a complete conservative one would be what.....Facist?