Every year now, we stop and take a moment to remember the incidents of September 11, 2001. It's one of those things that even now 6 years hence, is still crystal clear in my mind where I was and what I was doing when I recieved the news. I remember my one of my old high school teachers talking about how she oculd remember everything about the day they heard about JFK being assassinated. Never really understood why or how she could recall everything of that day with such detail. Now I unfortunately do.

Then, I was walking through Parc De La Comlumbiere in Dijon, France with my buddy. We were out trying to find people to listen to our message. I was about 5 months into my two year mission (I'm mormon btw). Some young kid probably about 10 came running up and yelled something at us about America was getting blown up. We didn't really pay much attention to him. As we walked further through the park a man, probably in his early 30s stopped to tell us someone had declared war on the US, and had attacked several cities. At that point we were a bit more concerned as we had heard it now from an Adult. Shortly after a group of kids mostly Arab decided it would be good to finish what had been started in the US so they thought it would be a good idea to fight with us. Being missionaries, beating the ever loving shit out of punk teenagers is generally frowned upon, even when they deserve it. So we opted for the much more fashionable run-away tactic. When in France....
Anyways, we ran and got onto a bus and began listening to the radio report. If you listened to the french media, which should be taken with a grain of salt; they were reporting 50,000 dead in New York, and that the Pentagon was completely destroyed, etc etc...
Needless to say, a few weeks afterwards the full truth came out about the destruction. It wasn't until a good 2 years afterwards that I actually saw the footage of the Twin Towers. At the time of the attacks we didn't exactly have a TV in our apartment, and then later I just never could watch them. I finally did though, and to this day it fills me with such anger it's hard to remember that not everyone over here deserves to die, just the ones responsible. The urge to follow my knee-jerk reaction is quite strong though.

Now, I'm here fighting in a war, only loosely related to the attacks. Most of the connection coming from people that moved in, after we started the invasion. Though don't take that to mean that I think this was was unjustified. I think we should have been here a long time ago. I just wish when Bush had brought the idea around he had done so under the banner of "This guy is a mass murdering fuckhead, lets kick his ass" rather than the possibility of maybe, perhaps there being some WMDs. I think he would have had nearly as much support given the political climate at the time. And I fully expect to be in Iran some time within the next 4 years. But then my Father spent the whole cold war expecting to be on the russian front at a moments notice so who knows.

Anyways getting back to the point, Where were you then? And Where are you now?

I had just walked into work at state Dept of Corrections (admin office). Receptionist had a radio on, and a co-worker was standing there listening. They told me of the first plane hitting the WTC. A couple minutes later, the second plane hit. My first thought was, bin Laden.

I still work in the same office, but part time now while I go back to school. Talked about the anniversary with one of my non-political friends at work; it didn't take long before she was venting about the political scene like...like me. ;)

I was in a patients room working at the hospital. When I saw it happened I knew it was a big deal. When the second plane hit I was thinking we were under attack on a larger scale....

Scary times.

I was running some morning errands and had been sitting in the parking lot of a Circuit City store waiting for it to open. I had Howard Stern on the radio and one of his guys had said that a plane hit the WTC and Howard said that it had to be intentional because of the perfectly clear weather. I remember hearing a small plane and I looked out of the window of my car and thought "yeah it is clear out" in fact I remember how crystal clear it was and how the sky was an amazing blue that day, a perfect sky.

The Circuit City opened and just as I walked inside (they had it on all of the TV's) the 2nd plane hit the WTC. I got the RAM i went to buy and drove home like a madman. I distinctly remember thinking that someone was going to get their asses kicked by us.

Two of my nieces were right in the middle of the attack, ended up getting caught in the dust clouds from the collapse and my oldest daughter was a witness to the attacks from across the hudson river.

I am now living life to its fullest as I recover from my latest near death experience.

I was just getting home from a 3rd shift at my job at the local AF base.

I got a call from a friend telling me to turn my TV on, and I found myself in a state of shock for hours.

My exwife had just moved back to NYC and works in the financial district so was worried about her.

Took 4 days to track her down, that day is still very livid in my mind.

Fandros

p.s. Glad you are recovering Rover.

What was your near death experience?

I was on the USS Enterprise on our way to do the crossing the line ceremony the next day on our way to Cape Town S Africa and eventually home. I had just started to wake up as I had watch in about an hour. I could hear the TV blaring to which sounded like a movie. I realized that the movie repeted things to often for what I could hear. I got up and headed to the lounge and see what was going on. Then I saw the news,

I thought about my family at home and rushed before the line started off to email my father. I told him it looks like we will not be home on time and that I hope everything is ok at home. Not more than 15min after I hit send email was secured through out the ship. I found out later that my father actually did recieve the email I sent.

The ship made a fairly abrupt 180 and we steamed full speed through the night to get off the coast where we set up our operating zone WTC2. The other ship that relieved us was WTC1 and the amphib battle groups were the pentagon and the flight that went down in PA.

I was in the showers my last year in college, and someone was concerned about someone else who was from New York. I heard something about a plane an the WTC, but it didn't click what that was. I rushed back to my room and turned the TV on. My memory says I saw the second plane when it hit, but I'm sure now it must have been a replay. I spent the day glued to the TV.

What was your near death experience?

Back in early June I wasn't feeling to well and over a period of about 5 days kept feeling worse and worse. I would get severely out of breath just walking across a room and I finally got smart and had Squish bring me to the emergency room.

Turns out I was in massive heart failure which also caused my kidneys and liver to shut down.

To make a long story sort I ended up in ICU and coded at around 5 AM the next morning, I saw the whole light thing, relatives who had passed and the whole glimpse of the other side.

I know people say it's just oxygen depravation but I don't buy that it was way beyond that.

And thanks Fanny....I am feeling much better than I was, its just taking more time than I thought.

I was working in Gilbraltar, trying to fix some bugs when someone from call center rushed up and called us (we had american people working with us), they had TV in their room, and were usually watching CNN all day long.

"There was a huge accident in New-York, a plane crashed in a building!"

So we went down, and watched several replays... Until the second plane crashed.
It was surreal, like you HOPE you are watching a movie, it looks like a movie, but it's bloody real.

Today I'm working in the neighborhood, hoping that the mess in Iraq ends up, soon.

Glad you're are safe Rover, and thanks for sharing it. :)

I was sitting in the barber chair getting a haircut, and the radio was on and giving the news. When finished, I drove to the Target store which was on my way home and like about two dozen others went in and straight to the television section, where all were turned on to the news. After watching coverage for about 30 minutes, I headed home where I had the TV on the rest of the day.

What also stands out to me from that day were the comments made both at the Target store and by my dad when I talked to him later that we would now be going after Hussein. And along with my anger that day, I was also feeling a lot of relief that my son had been turned away from the military just a month earlier for medical reasons.

I was fixing a computer at Winn Army Hospital's ENT clinic, at Ft Stewart, GA.

I remember someone coming up and telling me that an airplane had hit the World Trade Center.
My 1st thought was a Cesna or some small plane had hit the building.
I had just walked out into the Pharmacy area, where they had 2 televitions showing the coverage. I saw the damage on the 1st building and remember thinking 'That plane was bigger than a cesna. What a horrible accident.'
Then I saw the 2nd plane hit. My next thought 'We are under attack.'
The base was locked down soon after that.
The only commentary I can add is if I start seeing a "Patriot's Day sales event" commercial on TV, I'm gonna throw up.

I had just started a lecture on TCP/IP and subnetting when someone came to the window and motioned frantically to me. I stepped out into the hall / break area as they were wheeling a large television into the room. As soon as it was turned on we saw the replay of the first plane hitting the World Trade Center.

We stood there in shock a few minutes later as the second plane impacted the second tower and changed our lives forever.

I never did finish that lecture but I don't think anyone noticed. The rest of the day was spent trying to contact friends in New York and D.C. at the Pentagon.

I lost friends and acquaintances that day... we as a nation lost much more that day.

Life goes on, but the memory is still there as clear as if it were yesterday.

I was fixing a computer at Winn Army Hospital's ENT clinic, at Ft Stewart, GA.

I remember someone coming up and telling me that an airplane had hit the World Trade Center.
My 1st thought was a Cesna or some small plane had hit the building.
I had just walked out into the Pharmacy area, where they had 2 televitions showing the coverage. I saw the damage on the 1st building and remember thinking 'That plane was bigger than a cesna. What a horrible accident.'
Then I saw the 2nd plane hit. My next thought 'We are under attack.'
The base was locked down soon after that.
The only commentary I can add is if I start seeing a "Patriot's Day sales event" commercial on TV, I'm gonna throw up.


^^ I was at the same hospital only on the phone with TMSSC support about some problem we were having with our blood bank database. During this week our regional outfit SERMC was switching over to the MEDNET so we were having crazy network downtime during all this. Anyway I'm on the phone with the guy in San Antonio and one of our mail clerks comes over to tell us that a plane hit one of the towers; she didn't have any other details I didn't think much of it. Some time passes and shes run over to say that something hit the Pentagon. The support person and I agreed to hang up; I then ran over to the mail room where there was a TV and stood watching the scene of events unfold. I remember seeing the second plane, I remember seeing those towers crumble, I remember all of that but I can't remember much of what happened afterwards except all of scrambling to set up a command center (which I think you helped with Sixee? I seem to recall you running around carrying PCs upstairs) and trying to get email online. I remember having a meeting to discuss who should spend the night in the office/computer room if the hospital commanders declares an emergency too.

When I went home that night I sat in front of the TV and cried and wondered what was next. I was filled with hope seeing our Congress forego pettiness and stand unified on the steps and I was filled with pride to hear Bush address the nation.

I remember the next day; sitting in a line of traffic to get on Ft. Stewart for HOURS and finally parking my car and walking to the hospital b/c my pager wouldn't stop going off. I remember talking to the hospital commander and our CIO about designating me essential personel so I couldn't be called up from the IRR b/c they felt I was needed there. I still have the letter the commander wrote that probably kept me from going Active Duty.

Sixee -- do you remember how they had just finished putting up all those guard gates around Ft. Stewart mere weeks before the attack? It's one of those nagging things that tells me our country knew something was coming...locking down such a huge military installation....and me getting all the "by the way" letters from DOD... BTW soldier in case of an emergency your gov't can activate you. I got 3 of them within a 4 month time frame, one came 2 weeks before the attack.

I was sitting in traffic waiting to get onto the on ramp for the highway that would take me to work when CBC announced that a plane had flown into the first building. It was reported that it may have been a commuter plane.
I didn't think much of it and planned on looking up the news story on the internet when I got to work.

20 minutes later I was at work and was dicussing the first plane hit and lamenting on how the internet seemed broken when someone flew by the cubicle announcing that a 2nd plane had hit. We all knew then what was happening.

I quickly found a room with people and a TV in it in time to watch the replay of the 2nd plane hit and the collapse of the 1st building. I vividly remember shouting "no" and reaching my hand towards the screen in an attempt to stop the imminent collapse of the entire building. Of course there was nothing I could do, but the reality of it all was a little too much for my brain to comprehend at the time.

Our company stupidly kept everyone at work and even went so far as to send a completely insensitive email tp everyone stating that even though the event had occured and it was disturbing we should all continue on with our work. Most of us just spent the rest of the day in a stunned coma walking around like zombies. I left early after realizing that there was no way I could keep my mind on the work.

I got home and my wife and I spend a couple of hours watching the coverage and then just turned the TV off after we could not assimilate any more information due to overload.

I also remember vididly how clear and blue the sky was that afternoon. All air traffic was suspended in North America early in the morning and the lack of con trails and even polution from traffic that day was represented in how vibrant the sky looked (it was a clear day with no clouds in Ottawa).


Cheers,

Fild:
Yep that was me lugging computers upstairs for the command center they set up. I had forgotten about it, untill I read that.
I was stuck in that same traffic. I guess "Evil Rita" was impressed I was there 2 hours before her DOD employees, eh? LOL...

I think the setting up of the checkpoints was something that had been discussed a long time before they had set them up, however.
I will admit, the timing was a bit off.
I never got any of those letters. I had been off of IRR for 3 years at that point. My ex-wife forbade me from reenlisting, and I found out after I broke my leg, the Army wouldn't take me back in.

We all saw the same images on TV. We all called friends and family. And we all wept.

I have nothing new to add really, except a reflection on past experiences.

It took awhile, but I had seen something like it before. Not the same gut wrenching emptiness, but I couldn't shake the deja vu.

Awhile later it came back to me though.

They had gathered me and all my classmates into a room with a 20" TV to see the first teacher launched into space. I was pretty excited... I considered myself an expert on all things space. Or as much as a 12-year old could be. I remember listening to the countdown, seeing the engines fire, and the liftoff... all the mission control sounds I had heard before… throttle up.

Then we saw the fireball.

I remember thinking that isn't supposed to happen.

I remember gasps from some.

Ok, it happened, but NASA knows about this type of thing. They'll have an escape pod or something.

Crying now from teachers.

Why are they crying? None of my friends were. Don't they know they train for this? Our astronauts don't die on liftoff.

They had to physically carry me away from the TV because I couldn’t accept the facts.

There was no rescue boat. No last second recovery like in the movies.

So a group of my heroes died while I watched.

That was a harsh lesson for me.

As I saw the second plane hit the building, I again said that isn't supposed to happen.

When I watched the buildings fall though, I wasn't so naïve this time… I knew tens of thousands of people were dying when the towers fell… No hope.

And they didn’t choose to be in that type of danger. They were victims, not heroes in their line of work taking a risk to better mankind. Every day people with wives and kids and husbands.

Such a harsh lesson we’ve all had to learn.

Sorry for the ramble. Oh, and when (not if) we’re in another tragedy, use text messaging to communicate with people. Voice gets jammed up in the traffic. Most carriers use separate networks for texting and are less prone to being down.

I was writing an in class essay exam on Dante's Inferno when the Challenger blew up. The teacher walked into the room, gave us the news; I tossed my pencil in the air and declared the exam over. No one argued, really. I was at Cape Canaveral the day they first rolled out Columbia, and I was there -- telescope and tripod ready -- for the first shuttle launch. Challenger was a real punch to the gut; I can't watch that footage any more than I can watch that from 9/11.

My mother, incidentally, spent a couple months heading up Red Cross disaster relief in NYC after the attack (she's been a disaster relief coordinator for years -- called me this weekend from flood-wracked Illinois). She talked to me of people's apartments being full of ash, of the perpetually stunned state of everyone, and of the small horde of volunteers putting in extra hours to help those displaced by the attacks.

Both were powerful moments: full of horror, grief and resolve.

They had gathered me and all my classmates into a room with a 20" TV to see the first teacher launched into space. I was pretty excited... I considered myself an expert on all things space. Or as much as a 12-year old could be. I remember listening to the countdown, seeing the engines fire, and the liftoff... all the mission control sounds I had heard before… throttle up.

Then we saw the fireball.

Interesting that you brought this up, since I was reminded of it in much the same way. I was carrying mail as a sub in North St paul at the time. It was habit there to stop at the cafe across the street from the Post Office and eat before heading to the route, so I was watching that disaster unfold; and then, had to go and spend the day delivering mail and having countless folks come out of their homes with teary eyes.

Big difference was the Challenger evoked tears of profound sadness and loss; the 9/11 attacks evoked tears of rage and loss. At least, that is how I reacted to the two events.

Spent the morning at the pentagon for the memorial. There was actually a neat story to come out of it, two people who lost spouses and spent time together in a support group. They recently got engaged and life goes on.

I don't remember the day as much as the week. Armed soldiers at every city block, hummers with mounted tanks sitting outside of my dorm. We were able to run to the top of the dorm and see the fire over at the Pentagon. And then of course there were days and days of bomb threats. Life didn't get back to normal until October.

I was watching the History Channel last night, and learned a few things I didn't know about that day.
A lot of people were ferried off the island by boats during and after the attacks. They showed pictures of every kind of boat taking people, from tugboats, to a small luxury cruiser. I don't think there was enough credit given to the pilots of those boats.
Also this story about the fireboat John J. Harvey. When a lot of pump trucks had been damaged or destroyed, this boat was able to provide water to help put out fires, and keep emergency supply area free of dust and debris.

http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/17_Pharvey.html

*edit* Actually it was because fire hydrants were not working, not because of the pump trucks not working.

The story that sticks in my mind from the time was the number of children they couldn't/wouldn't release from school. Partially because they were concerned about safety, but also because they knew that many of those children had just lost one or both of their parents. Unfortunately I never heard anything else on the story, but I've always wondered what happened to many of those children.

I was in a classroom a Technology Director that just the day before became a high school Math teacher for a small Charter School (due to the loss of a staff member just the week before.) I was having second day jitters when my grandma called me and told me what happened. I decided at that moment to send students on a scavenger hunt to get a TV, cable, and parts of an antenna I had in my office to be able to see what was happening. What unfolded in my classroom was amazing at one point I had over 90 students in a room with 30 chairs. I had teachers from all over the campus coming to my classroom to see what was going on. I had the superintendent of schools writing my termination letter for showing this and then having the school board president write a letter of appreciation for taking time to explain what was happening to the students. Living in San Antonio, and having many students with military families I sent many kids home with their parents so that they could be together before the lock downs and such happened on the bases. I remember having my kids write letters that were sent to the families, fire departments, police departments, and members of government. The most moving thing from that week was when the students asked me to lead them in prayer at the flag pole every day until the flag flew at full mast. This was some what awkward as I am not the most religious person out there but they wanted me because I was the one that explained what was going on and made sure they understood what National Pride was. I remember going home and calling friends and family and finding out that some people I worked with in the past would never be coming home. I remember talking to a friend that took his life after he found that his wife had died. His family told me I was the last person he talked to, and that made it especially hard because I told him I would be there as soon as possible to help him. Now I work for a different charter district in town, and I still get emails and letters from the kids I had then. I get more mail around this time thanking me for taking the time to explain to them what was really going on. I have letters from parents thanking me that I let them see their children before they were called up and did not get to see their family for a month. I pray every day that we do not have to experience a tragedy on this scale ever again, but I know that it is inevitable for us due to the radical nature of groups that hate us.

I was in bed with the radio on when they reported the first plane hitting. I got up as my girlfriend was getting back into bed. She got mad cause I wanted to get up and turn on the television. I turned it on just in time to see the second plane hit live.

I went to my mom's and watched the rest unfold from there. When the first tower collapsed, the phone rang. My step father , who is a paramedic, picked up the phone. It was his friend Bud who is also a paramedic.

He said " Hey Bud. Yup. Watching it now. Yup."

He looked up at me and I said " I'll drive"

I grabbed my keys and kissed my mom goodbye and we headed out. I made the 4 hour drive in about 3, only be told that they didn't want help that there was too many people there looking to help.

We actually did get to help the next day by passing out water and masks and checking vitals of people who were exhausted from working. I wish we could have done more but I guess its probably better that we weren't closer, now that everyones getting sick.

Oh and when I got back the girlfriend was pissed that I went. Needless to say that day she became my ex.

This post may garner me a bit of hate and ill will; I haven't written anything below with the intent of meaning any disrespect whatsoever to those who were personally affected by the events of 9/11, or who weren't but who experienced them differently than I; I'm merely posting my own observations at the time.

On 9/11, I was at the lab at the University of Georgia Vet School (and about one month prior to having a final row with my majorprofessor which resulted in my leaving the program), extracting lymph nodes from a pregnant female mouse we'd infected with malaria, when Dr M. (said professor) came bursting into the lab, clearly agitated, and she told me that a plane had just flown into the World Trade Center. I finished what I was doing, stripped off my gloves, and cleaned up, and walked down to the second floor faculty lounge where someone was rolling a television in. We were all sitting around the table (or walking in and out, back and forth, from our labs, as most of the folks were workaholics) and I happened to actually see the second plane hit the second WTC building live. We watched in rapt incomprehension, and as the minutes went on (about 45 minutes later, I think), first one tower, and then the other tower, collapsed. I continued to watch about off and on until about noon central when I'd had my fill of it and couldn't watch it anymore.

Unlike many people I've talked to about it, I didn't experience the sensation of disbelief, that this *couldn't* have happened here. After all, we'd already had the Oklahoma City bombing, the earlier WTC attempt in 1993, and while it was a horrificly impressive feat, I didn't feel the sense of 'violation' that some people experienced. Perhaps part of that is because I don't have any direct connection with that part of the country, and partially because we have become so inured to sensational images on the screen that everything we see on it in effect seems 'unreal', but in any case, while I was deeply concerned (mainly, about how it could have happened in the first place, and who these folks represented), I wasn't unduly traumatized or angry - in fact, I remember being as much or more shocked by the Challenger explosion, which I also saw live that morning in 1985 while getting ready to open up the shoe store that I worked at at the time.

I think 9/11 spawned a lot of true heroes (not the least of which were the passengers on flight 71 who thwarted their hijackers and paid with their lives anyway, as well as all who worked in the rescue efforts), but I've also felt, that almost since the event occurred, there have been interests which sought, rather than rationally concentrating on law enforcement (How did this happen? How can we prevent such plots from being enacted in the future?), reconstruction, and healing, to keep raising, sensationalizing (not that it wasn't sensational already), and endlessly drilling the *trauma* of the event into our heads for their own ends, as a means of inducing national Post-traumatic Stress Disorder, if you will. Instead of learning from it and healing, the way our media, and especially certain factions, have treated 9/11's significance in history has been more like scab picking, with the intent of keeping a cloud of irrational emotion around the event to act as both justification and cover for exploitation (of all kinds).

Learning about the causes and historical significance of such an event, and not forgetting that such an event happened, and could happen here again, is one thing, and in addition, people have a right to mourn and honor their dead (as well as their psychic 'loss', as it were). Deliberately fixating on the shock, outrage, and horror is something else entirely, and I'm not sure it serves any productive purpose (most psychologists would agree) - it interferes with, rather than helps, attempts to constructively deal with the trauma or problem. Instead of the rallying cry of 'Remember 9/11!' Why aren't we asking ourselves "How has what we have done, and what we have left undone, helped to reduce the liklihood that something like this could happen again? Is it right to accept *any* level of scrutiny of the population in exchange for our 'safety'? For example, if increased security from 'terrorists' are what we are after, then why have we tightened the noose of domestic surveillance on our own population, and yet left chemical and nuclear plants, among other high risk targets, with nonexistant security measures? I'm not even going to go into the whole Iraq debacle here...

I wish I could say otherwise, but I think that the greatest trauma that the country experienced as a result of 9/11 was not inflicted by the planes, nor the forces that piloted them, but by the reactions to those actions by Americans themselves, and specifically those in key positions in our government. They spawned catastrophic foreign and domestic policy decisions, cynical and abusive power grabs, and international havoc which have had consequences for the world more dire than those 20 hijackers probably could have imagined in their wildest dreams.

Regards,
Nydia

There were a few Ayonae Ro-ers involved in September 11th if I remember correctly. A priest in Rest in Peace was a fireman who was sent to New York - wish I could remember his name. I also know another ARoer's uncle died in the collapse of the towers.

I agree Nydia that many of those in leadership positions in our country reacted in ways that did do damage to us.

The uninteded blowback that came from 9/11 was not and is not our leaders sacred territory but is also in the form now that ANY attempted hijacking of an aircraft brings a quick beatdown of the hijackers from the passengers on the plane.

I agree in large part with your comments Nydia. Rudy G has constructed quite an elaborate mythos around himself and his leadership in the aftermath of those attacks. And Dubya can't seem to speak for a full ten minutes without raising that spectre of our country being attacked again like on 9/11.

If Giulianni wants to run for Mayor of Washington DC, I will seriously consider sending him a campaign contribution; but, any higher office than a city mayor and I will only have laughter to offer.

Too many have sought to use these events for their own purpose, and to twist the facts as well as the misinformation regarding what did and did not happen. The facts are that the country was attacked, and it is important that we learn from that and take what measures we can to avoid a repeat, without sacrificing those freedoms our attackers so envy.

And, like Sixee mentioned, I dread the day we see the anniversary turned into something trivial used for commercial purposes.

They spawned catastrophic foreign and domestic policy decisions, cynical and abusive power grabs, and international havoc which have had consequences for the world more dire than those 20 hijackers probably could have imagined in their wildest dreams.

And further proof that terrorism works, not that it hasn't already been effectively established over the last 50 years anyway by dozens of nations, ourselves included. Not that any sort of real discussion on that topic will ever be allowed in public discourse for another good 15 years.

I was getting ready to go to work, had called my father to say hello as it was the first anniversary of my grandfather's death, and happened to open up CNN to check the news. It was immediately obvious to me it was some sort of concerted effort and although my initial guess as to the perpetrators was incorrect, it wasn't off by much. I wasn't shocked or horrified as much as resigned to understanding that the seeds planted by our foreign policy over so many decades had dropped their grim fruit and the foreknowledge that the political climate in the country was about to take a serious turn for the worse (immediately reinforced by the security theatre that gripped the nation, so nicely capstoned by all the uniformed guardsmen standing around in airports with unloaded M16s).

It still morbidly fascinates me to watch the video of the tower collapses, or the plane impacts, and think of all those poor people sacrificed to inscrutable causes, particularly those on the flight that at least tried to fight back. I want to think I would have done the same, but I'm glad I'll likely never have to know. I never felt traumatized or even angry about it, and I resent being told I was supposed to feel such. In the years since I've grown entirely contemptuous of the exhibitionist victimhood so many people not even remotely connected to the tragedy display at every opportunity. It's statistically improbable that more than 1% of the country even knew anyone who knew anyone killed in the attack, yet from how some people talk you'd think we all were in New York that day dodging debris.

Both the Challenger and Columbia tragedies struck me much more close to the heart, those were stabbing wounds into a dream of hope; 9/11 was more the head-on-collision for an idiot fantasy life with the real world. Yesterday I was sad both for those killed in the planes, the towers, and the rescue attempt, and sad that we as a country have learned nothing.

I had walked into Uncle Bill's (a corner store near my house) shortly after the first plane hit. I asked the lady behind the counter what movie she was watching- you can guess her response: "This isn't a movie." It was early enough that everyone still thought it was some kind of accident, myself included.

By the time I got to work the second plane had hit.

Also, it is interesting to see what other countries get taught about 9/11. I assure you, it isn't that "They hate our freedom!" (http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/newsid_6990000/newsid_6991100/6991137.stm)

did you link the wrong thing esbat? all that link is is a 9/11 timeline.

He's probably talking about these: http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/muslimprotest.asp

what the shit? why would he say "Also, it is interesting to see what other countries get taught about 9/11. I assure you, it isn't that "They hate our freedom!"" and then link some snopes article about a muslim protest over the mohammed pictures? you are making no sense =(

I thought the sign regarding the "real Holocaust" coming was rather ironic.

I am no history wiz, but I can recall no incident of Jewish terror activities or of attempts by the Jews to force other nations to bow to their demands and change their ways of life to accomodate Jewish beliefs.

If the radical elements of the Islamic faith continue as they have indicated they intend, I wonder how long before genocide once again becomes an option for the rest of the world's peoples and Islam and it's practicioners are wiped from existence. Assuming they lose, of course.

It is an ongoing discussion among some friends and I that the next large scale war on this planet will be of a religious nature, and will involve all nations.

Another attack along the lines of the 9/11 events would surely result in many more reprisals against those of the Moslem faith in this country than what occurred the last time. People's frustrations with the original attacks, the lives lost in this failed war in Iraq, the ongoing video provications we see via the media, the protests around the world, the continuing terror attacks around the world would all come to a head, and no matter how misdirected it may be, the focus of that frustration I am sure would be to retaliate against those of the terrorist's faith.

That snowball has been rolling down the hill for 6 years now, gathering steam and weight. Lord help whoever ends up in it's way.

I thought the sign regarding the "real Holocaust" coming was rather ironic.

I am no history wiz, but I can recall no incident of Jewish terror activities or of attempts by the Jews to force other nations to bow to their demands and change their ways of life to accomodate Jewish beliefs.

If the radical elements of the Islamic faith continue as they have indicated they intend, I wonder how long before genocide once again becomes an option for the rest of the world's peoples and Islam and it's practicioners are wiped from existence. Assuming they lose, of course.

It is an ongoing discussion among some friends and I that the next large scale war on this planet will be of a religious nature, and will involve all nations.

Another attack along the lines of the 9/11 events would surely result in many more reprisals against those of the Moslem faith in this country than what occurred the last time. People's frustrations with the original attacks, the lives lost in this failed war in Iraq, the ongoing video provications we see via the media, the protests around the world, the continuing terror attacks around the world would all come to a head, and no matter how misdirected it may be, the focus of that frustration I am sure would be to retaliate against those of the terrorist's faith.

That snowball has been rolling down the hill for 6 years now, gathering steam and weight. Lord help whoever ends up in it's way.

Lets hope not... Because the moment my Fellow Americans attack my family members for being muslim, is the day i stop being an American. I can assure you there are many that would feel the same way.

This is not a war that can be won with intolerance, Unfortunatly our government doesn't understand and is making things worse...

I am no history wiz, but I can recall no incident of Jewish terror activities or of attempts by the Jews to force other nations to bow to their demands and change their ways of life to accomodate Jewish beliefs.

:eek: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haganah

Oh and one more thing sorry...

I am no history wiz, but I can recall no incident of Jewish terror activities or of attempts by the Jews to force other nations to bow to their demands and change their ways of life to accomodate Jewish beliefs.


There are so many incidents in which Jews have defied the International community and imposed their own will on people to get what they desire, that it is not worth mentioning here. The fact is that for the Jews, people make excuses.

When Israelis start killing people by the "millions" in gas chambers and whatever sick devices they can come up...then I'll jump on the I hate Israeli bandwagon. Till then they are as fucked up as any of the other whacko hanging onto a piece of land because they "think" their religion originated in that vicinity.

Lets hope not... Because the moment my Fellow Americans attack my family members for being muslim, is the day i stop being an American. I can assure you there are many that would feel the same way.

This is not a war that can be won with intolerance, Unfortunatly our government doesn't understand and is making things worse...

Unfortunately, the intolerance of the Islamic radicals gives leaders such as Bush and Putin, who have already shown their narrow ways of thinking, all the ammunition they require to stoke the fears and animosity of their people; how much more will people accept in terms of school massacres and hijacked planes being used as missiles, before those leaders are able to sway their followers to accepting legislated discrimination, which is the first step down the road to the genocide we have seen in the past.

One need only look at what people have already allowed to occur, in terms of the assaults on civil liberties as well as the institution of more hard line policies toward any detractors. The framework has already been put in place, and is being steadily reinforced. In France, they have started via the school dress code policies, not allowing Muslim girls to hide their faces.
In Russia, Putin is pushing a strong sense of national pride via youth camps.
And we are all witness to the Bush-Cheney assault on civil liberties in the name of Homeland Security here at home.

Six years and one week ago, very few would have defended a government that would secretly eavesdrop on your father calling his relatives back home, Jedd. Now, people will go to all kinds of lengths to justify the government having that right.

If there continues to be these tragic attacks by the Islamic radical factions, and protests calling for violence against non-Muslims, national pride and the Christian right will continue to press leaders who already are leaning toward oppression to move farther along that path to isolate the Muslims.

I am not saying it is right, or acceptable; just inevitable.

The link I posted works for me. It is blurb on the BBC about what caused the attacks. In case you're not seeing it:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/newsid_6990000/newsid_6991100/6991137.stm

The way America has got involved in conflicts in regions like the Middle East has made some people very angry, including a group called al-Qaeda - who are widely thought to have been behind the attacks.


In the past, al-Qaeda leaders have declared a holy war - called a jihad - against the US. As part of this jihad, al-Qaeda members believe attacking US targets is something they should do. When the attacks happened in 2001, there were a number of US troops in a country called Saudi Arabia, and the leader of al-Qaeda, Osama Bin Laden, said he wanted them to leave.

I was trying to reference how the events leading up to the attacks have been buried, spun and obfuscated by the powers that be over here- the pat answer given as to why we were attacked is: "They hate our freedom!"

Oh, I forgot to mention: the link above is aimed at teaching children what caused the 9/11 attacks. The whole treatment of what the root cause is by the U.S.A. is embarassing to me.