Well, whether it was just FreedomWorks busing them in or them actually showing up, it looks like quite a few people turned out today (http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/12/tea.party.rally/index.html).

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/POLITICS/09/12/tea.party.rally/art.capitol.march.cnn.jpg

Thoughts?

I watched a bit of video, and at least half of the people CNN had on camera while I was watching were not the crazies you normally associate with these things. They weren't all whitebread rednecks either.

Well, whether it was just FreedomWorks busing them in or them actually showing up, it looks like quite a few people turned out today (http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/12/tea.party.rally/index.html).

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/POLITICS/09/12/tea.party.rally/art.capitol.march.cnn.jpg

Thoughts?

I watched a bit of video, and at least half of the people CNN had on camera while I was watching were not the crazies you normally associate with these things. They weren't all whitebread rednecks either.


Yes they did...and somewhere around 300,000,000 people didn't show up.

Somewhere around 300,000,000 people didn't show up for Obama's inauguration, therefore he stole the election! :rolleyes:

about 50,000?

good stuff.

http://images2.dailykos.com/images/user/8411/obamacare_kennedy.jpg

some astroturf group was handing those out..

I think that will be the enduring image.

Not sure. I did see that they were all the way back on the other side of Washington Monument though, http://www.flickr.com/photos/42448313@N03/3913469306/sizes/o/in/set-72157622224474669/

(also, Sarah Palin, lol?)

Nice shot.. very cool bokeh..

You take that?

Yes, I got my telephoto lens from NASA. Atlanta to DC, no problem.

=/

Oh hell. The Flikr link had me confuzziled.

Haha, check the name of the Flickr account. I hadn't noticed that until now.

Seriously though, the polarization going on is troubling. Both sides are to blame and it's ridiculously irresponsible.

I have no doubt that the Left (and myself) laughing at these people as crazies is just pushing more middle-Right types toward their camp. I guarantee you that the CxO level guys at this company I'm working with right now are finding themselves identifying with the Glen Beck camp, just because they're getting lumped in anyway for doubting the liberal agenda.

It's no different than how Rover feels the need to defend ACORN, just because he somewhat agrees with their fundamental principles, even though he has no actual ties to them. When I point out that some of them are scumbags, he feels polarized against me even though I never indicted him or his relevant beliefs.

It's mostly fun 'n games right now, but this sort of nationwide divide is dangerous. If the economy isn't picking up by the time it gets cold this Winter, I worry that people are going to turn their unrest inward instead of continuing a fruitless protest against a Congress and Federal Government that couldn't care less.

Oh, and shouldn't this be "United We Sit"?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/42448313@N03/3912694201/sizes/o/in/set-72157622224474669/

I think the divide is troubling as well. What cracks me up is just how much Americans are sheeple. I mean we have been rocketing down the social program government since the 30's and no one seemed concerned. Suddenly now they are being whipped into a frenzy over it though. Hardly anyone was even concerned when the government was spying on its people and holding them indefinitely. But socialism is their hot button issue. Who knew?

I have no ideological ties to ACORN and I don't feel a need to defend them. I think that the management of ACORN, right down to the local level, should be removed and verbally flogged much like I think should happen to the big banks. What we see with ACORN is the result of poor management.

I think that the protests are good for the country, it keeps people on their toes. What I am miffed by is their overall lack of historical knowledge when they compare themselves to the people of 1773 and their seeming ignorance that what was done in the previous eight years has caused great damage to our nation and constitutional principles.

I am with you on the potential for a civil war breaking out in this country but I certainly don't wish for one. I have no desire to see my children or anyones have to fight for survival in a Sarajevo, Srebrenica or Beirut like situation. It would be horrific, but I don't think they really understand that.

Watching NBC news tonight I saw a few of the protesters being interviewed, and was amused by the elderly lady with her anti-health care reform sign, who stated to the camera that the problem is that the country is being taken over by Muslims.

Good to see folks have their fingers on the issues of reforming health care.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2468/3912707381_4b924ee9ca.jpg


Wrong Flag? EPIC FAIL!!!!!

Seriously though, the polarization going on is troubling. Both sides are to blame and it's ridiculously irresponsible.Being one of the board's resident Independents, can I make a suggestion that everyone jump ship from a flawed system. Just looking at the system on paper should show how a strong tie to either party is, at best, a sign of troubles to come. With respect to those of you in a party, of course. In recent months I'm becoming more and more sure of my stance to avoid either group though, and I think our political system would do much better if our leaders could do the same.

In the end.. these things are going to do far more harm than good for the conservative cause.

The major weakness of the Democratic Party has always been the same and is summed up by the old Wil Rodgers quote
"Im not a member of any organized political party.... Im a Democrat."

The problem with the Republican Party is they are hyper organized. They march and conform like its a game of "Follow the Leader". If a clear leader of the Republican Party emerged, the insanity would stop as members would have their role model and then know how to act... unfortunatly for them however, the party has been hijacked by Rush, Glen and Sean. All we are seeing now is people acting according in a mimic of their leadership.

In the long run.. this is going to do alot more damage to them than the temporary boost in this battle.

Everyone is screaming for Obama to get down in the mud and start being an asshole. I think he is doing the right thing and being the exact opposite of the insanity the Tea Party people are putting out there.. The disrespect, the insults, the general and rabid boorish behavior. He is presenting a really clear contrast to that.. and when it comes time for the nation to make a choice.. they are going to be tied to the insanity we are witnessing.

So contrast the images we have seen with Obama talking to 9th graders.

g1YKiBkj1-E

Im going to go out on a limb here and do some hard core stereotyping. First of all I believe intelligence and religious fervor are inversely proportional. On the opposite ends of this graph we have repulicans and democrats. The dems being the secular intellectual elitists, and the repulicans being the god fearing congregants. This should go a long way in helping to explain all of the problems our political system suffers from.

"Im not a member of any organized political party" sounds like a bunch of intellectual elitists trying to have a meeting to me. Republican constituents have the ability to rally around a cause like an angry mound of army ants, with zero knowledge or understanding of the cause based only on their innate ability for religious fervor and acceptance of the word a leader. This is also why we have republicans insist that illegal immigrants will be given free health care, regardless of how many times that actual text of the bill is quoted that says, no money will be spent for anyone that is not a citizen. I honestly dont know how we reconcile this problem, but it is frustrating as hell.

Phel, I'm just going to come out and say it.

You're a fucking idiot. Go spread you brand of hate somewhere else.

The assumption that faith automatically means ignorance makes you so much more ignorant than the people you look down your nose at. Either side of the argument has it's legions of slack jawed morons willing to shout down the other side without ever really knowing what it is they're shouting down. And congratulations you're one of them. Your disdain for everything religious that you have time and time again shown on this message board only goes to prove that you're one of the many unwilling to accept different view points. You don't have to agree, you can agree to disagree on the matter, and compromise. But no instead you and people like you continue to poison the rest of society with your vitriol and hate. Welcome to being exactly what you despise

Religious fervor is contradictory of faith in God.

But, but, but....

Deus Vult!

http://gawker.com/5357371/happy-first-post+911-911?skyline=true&s=i

n this day eight years ago, four commercial airplanes were hijacked and crashed into buildings and a field. Thousands died. This is the first anniversary of that terrible day, though, that the Terrorists will not still be winning.

Have you finished composing your "where I was" blog post or, god save us, your #whereiwas Tweet? Have you muted MSNBC's deplorable annual encore performance of the televised deaths of thousands? Have you remembered to never forget? Good. Fine.

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gawker/2009/09/eagle.jpg

Shortly after (or maybe during) that day, our president at the time, a little fuckhead no one liked, handed over the reins to the most psychotic elements of his administration. In the vast national wave of jingoism, paranoia, dread, and fear that followed, he and his friends led us into an unrelated war they'd been planning beforehand, allowed the CIA to wiretap and torture anyone they liked (and encouraged the CIA to wiretap and torture even more than they were comfortable with!), and regularly insisted that our memory of that day should not be sullied with critical thinking or expressions of anything other than still-palpable fear. This played better in the sorts of places that had nothing to fear from international terrorism, but plenty of formerly reasonable-acting people in the major targets did play along, both out of personal conviction and partisan duty.

In fact an entire cottage industry of dudes who were Changed Forever On That Day thrived on the internet. Bloggers, all of whom were self-professed Former Liberal Democrats, were suddenly freed to be racist, bloodthirsty warmongers. They were rewarded with traffic and mainstream legitimacy (even as they ritually attacked the MSM as terrorist-loving fifth columnists). Most are still treated as Serious People, even though their defining characteristic was a hysterical response to a crisis.

But we don't even need to feel bad about the Joe Kleins, Chris Hitchens, Andrew Sullivans, Glenn Reynolds, Charles Johnsons, and Peter Beinarts of the media world. Because, whatever, they are as responsible in their own ways as Wolfowitz for the Iraq tragedy, but their magical ride on the patriotism express has ended.

Barack Obama is the president now. Regardless of what you think of him as a politician or a man, he admirably refuses to engage in 9/11 rhetoric. He does not operate from the cynical assumption that his audience believes that America Can Do No Wrong, that to criticize a war is to be a literal traitor, that to not worship the president is to spit on the graves of soldiers, that the correct response to a tragedy is to create a thousand more. He doesn't talk like that. And so, fucking finally, the anniversary belongs to the latte-sipping out-of-touch coastal elites who witnessed it.

On 9/12, people in New York (and DC) did not feel as "great" as Glenn Beck. They just felt like shit. They felt scared and confused and depressed. Many of them were drunk. And only an idiot or an actual terrorist would want to always feel like it was 9/12/01. And eight years later, normal people, with brains and souls, have decided that some emotional distance from that disaster is healthier and wiser than trying to recapture the dread.

So thank fucking christ that the Commander in Chief is no longer subjecting the nation to death porn.

No, this year it's limited to a nutty little cult leader on basic cable who is encouraging his radicalized band of fanatical followers to invade the cities where the tragedy actually happened in order to shock the populace back into fear.

Glenn Beck is an actual terrorist, and the people attending his rally in DC tomorrow are al-Qaeda in America.

Holla atcha Boy Osg.

1hH3rIamUn0

Well, whether it was just FreedomWorks busing them in or them actually showing up, it looks like quite a few people turned out today (http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/12/tea.party.rally/index.html).



Thoughts?

I watched a bit of video, and at least half of the people CNN had on camera while I was watching were not the crazies you normally associate with these things. They weren't all whitebread rednecks either.

Estimates are around 60,000 people.

Religious fervor is contradictory of faith in God.

There is a difference between fervor, and zealotry. I would totally agree that the hardcore of any faith that run around proclaiming how everyone but their faith are going to burn in hell forever are in fact nutjobs. But being a faithful member of a religion does not automatically mean you're an idiot.

"Im not a member of any organized political party" sounds like a bunch of intellectual elitists trying to have a meeting to me. Ignoring the religious comments and just looking at the quote...um, how about no? First off, what if it is a bunch of intellectual elitists? Would you rather have the uneducated bottom of the barrell making decisions and running for office? This was by far one of the dumbest comments to come out during the last election. The president, for example, isn't supposed to be some hick with no world knowledge or schooling who just strolled in out of the mountains barefoot. He or she had better be someone who thinks they are the best, who is intelligent, or they have no business running. Likewise, anyone who votes, ever, and can't be bothered to educate themselves has no business voting. This recent lash back against so-called intellectualism is frighting. Yeah, lets make everyone dumb, that should improve things. Oh, and put dumb people in charge. Joe the Plumber proved his credentials to breathe through his mouth, right? Lets vote him in next round, he ain't onna dem in-te-lect-u-als!

Secondly, I'm failing to see the connection between not wanting to be a part of either party and any sense of elitism. It doesn't take that bottom of the barrel crowd to realize how screwed up both parties are. I think we would be well served by a strong third party, but until that happens the Dems and Repubs are free to manipulate politics in this country. Just look at how candidates are selected for state ballots, and realize how these parties keep control. Stepping back as an independent means I don't have to toe a party line, have no obligation to listen to party bullshit every election, and no one can pigeonhole me into a philosophy based on my voting preferences. Candidates actually have to prove themselves to independents. My father is a staunch Republican, and automatically voted McCain simply because McCain was Republican. Most of the teacher at work were Democrats, and automatically voted accordingly. A hefty percentage of the population does that every cycle. I got to use that lump of flesh between my ears, weighed both candidates, and actually thought for myself. If that's intellectual elitism, then sign me up baby. Beats the hell out of being another sheeple.

I also get virtually no campaign junk mail or phone calls, and hey - that's a pretty sweet bonus.

I agree the whole anti intellectualism crap needs to end. I never understood the reasoning for that backlash, except for the fact there calling themselves stupid and glorifying being ignorant.
My dad was a rightwing religious nut, who also always voted republican, he would go on and on about who to vote for come election time. I grew up actually believing republicans were the real americans and were some kind of holy order. And democrats were some kind of evil cabal bent on destroying the country and they were not real americans.
By the time i hit my teens and i started actually thinking for myself (rebellion at its finest) i dabbled in every religion and eventually started reading about the different issues that divided the country. Found myself agreeing more with the Dems issues then i did with the Repubs, so i voted Clinton for my first election back in 92.
Im registered as independent though, since i dont believe in sticking to any particular party, even though i vote Democrat mainly, since there the closet to where i stand on most issues.
If ever a third party came along that offered better ideas that i agreed with, id vote for them.
A third party needs a charismatic leader, like an obama who will get the countrys attention, for them to ever vote in mass for a third party.

A third party needs a charismatic leader, like an obama who will get the countrys attention, for them to ever vote in mass for a third party.

Unfortunately our system is specifically rigged to prevent that from happening. Because we only cast a single vote in a winner-take-all election, you get the phenomenon known as tactical voting of which the GOP in particular has been exploiting ruthlessly since Ross Perot in 1992. The basic problem is that if only one of two, rather than one of the plurality, has any real chance of winning then it becomes very easy to create the negative case of voting against rather than for.

I submit this is one big why we have gotten so highly polarized in the last twenty years, both the GOP and to a lesser degree DNC got bitten by 3rd party candidates who, unfortunately, had no chance, but were charismatic enough to siphon off large enough blocs of voters to hurt their most similar candidate rather than the more antagonistic platforms. IMO this is one of the big reasons there was so much vitriolic hate between the Hillary and Obama factions in the last Democratic primary as well, the "vote against X" campaign machinery is so good, and so pervasive, that it was easy to point it a little closer to home.

Sadly I do not think this sort of systemic problem will ever be fixed in the current political environment. It's in everyone's interests except those already holding political power. However, something like a Single Transferable Vote (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_transferable_vote) setup is not only well understood but explicitly solves a number of serious and obvious problems.

Probably the last time a 3rd party candidate had a real chance of winning was Roosevelt on the Bull Moose ticket ... in 1912 with 27%.

I don't have a lot to contribute to this thread other than to give props to Pareene of Gawker for use of the term 'death porn'. There was something positively... creepy about the way that the Bushites fetishized 9/11 which reminds me of those folks who have an unhealthy obsession with depictions of Jesus suffering on the cross. While very little in the way of actual sex porn bothers me, these was something disgusting and, yes, obscene about the way that event and the actual suffering people underwent (which went largely untreated and ignored) was glorified and exploited for the purpose of inducing nationalistic 'religious' (and actual religious, in some quarters) intoxication, the apogee of that being at the 2004 Republican convention. While Obama might ultimately end up being judged by history as hamstrung or corrupt/ed, he so far seems at least rational with regard to dealing with the issue of terrorism and other issues, and as far as his overall sales schtick goes, there are much worse things than 'hope porn' - although I recall reading somewhere that Jesus' last temptation was in fact hope... ;)

Regards,
Nydia

I submit this is one big why we have gotten so highly polarized in the last twenty years, both the GOP and to a lesser degree DNC got bitten by 3rd party candidates who, unfortunately, had no chance, but were charismatic enough to siphon off large enough blocs of voters to hurt their most similar candidate rather than the more antagonistic platforms. IMO this is one of the big reasons there was so much vitriolic hate between the Hillary and Obama factions in the last Democratic primary as well, the "vote against X" campaign machinery is so good, and so pervasive, that it was easy to point it a little closer to home.

Definitely. The whole ordeal is frighteningly similar to a college football game between rivals at this point. A lot of the people in the stands don't even understand the game very well; they just want their team to beat the other one. They've identified themselves so strongly with their team that they've allowed their own self-worth to be tied to the outcome of the game.

And the really sad part is the misunderstood parts of the game, are the ones that count the most.

http://www.bobcesca.com/images/medicare_sign_teabaggers.jpg

Is there some Republican distinction between Medicare, Medicare for everyone, and "socialized medicine"? Part of me desperately wants to believe that no one, Republican, Democrat, or otherwise can be this uninformed (or worse).

What is scary is that there most likely was no comment offered from the person's fellow demonstrators to how 'stoopid' his sign was. They are so caught up in being against something they can't be wasting their time on critical thinking.

The Fake photo of the crowd...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/14/912-tea-party-photo-false_n_286082.html


There's another big problem with the photograph: it doesn't include the National Museum of the American Indian, a building located at the corner of Fourth St. and Independence Ave. that opened on Sept. 14, 2004. (Looking at the photograph, the building should be in the upper right hand corner of the National Mall, next to the Air and Space Museum.) That means the picture was taken before the museum opened exactly five years ago. So clearly the photo doesn't show the "tea party" crowd from the Sept. 12 protest.

They learned from Bush's cronies and the fall of Iraq with the Saddam statue,....remember that crap?

Where did the fake photo originate? This is the first I've seen it, myself.

Tons of other photos (like the one from CN-freakin-N I posted) show similar crowds all the way back around the reflecting pool, so I'm not seeing the advantage of Teabag types circulating a fake one on purpose.

It's obviously not from 9/12/09 at a glance anyway. It was very overcast there on 9/12 and it's sunny in the photo.

Only thing I heard about a picture was that the president of the 'freedom' group behind the demonstration had put it out there to prove the numbers he was claiming.

And I have seen stations using photos from the million man march to contrast what a really large group looks like, so those might be what you have seen, San.

Photos actually from 9/12 are all over Flickr. There was some video from AP too. I watched it for a few minutes on TV Saturday too, and they panned across crowds matching everything the photos show.

/shrug.

The original "fake" so to speak came from one of the event organizers who claimed that ABC News said they had 2 million people.. or something crazy like that.

ABC News countered and said... "Uhh No.... we reported 60-70,000"
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/tea-party-protesters-march-washington/story?id=8557120
Its no matter though.. the Tea Baggers have their own reality.. and if anyone disagrees with them... its "Librul Bias" or whatever.

To put that in perspective.. thats a respectable crowd for a college or pro football game or about 1/2 of what showed up for the U of Michigan football game this weekend.

Various Tea Baggers have been posting fakes of the event though on twitter or what not, and being promptly busted. I think the one from HP is from the Immigration march.. ironically enough.

ABC News countered and said... "Uhh No.... we reported 60-70,000"
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/tea-party-protesters-march-washington/story?id=8557120
Its no matter though.. the Tea Baggers have their own reality.. and if anyone disagrees with them... its "Librul Bias" or whatever.

Not sure the semantics matter, but notice they were talking about people off to the side on PA Ave, here:

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The aerial part of this AP footage pretty well matches the "fake" photos, in terms of numbers.

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I don't much care either way, but both sides appear to be spinning this hard, not just the Teabag types.

HAHA, love that one sign says..."Take your Arrogent wife". says it all.

OReilly was on tonight in a segment with Bernard Goldberg and he said the number he had was 75,000 and he got that directly from the DC Fire Dept.

Its probably less than that.. but Ill go with that number.

http://www.foxnews.com/oreilly/ (9/14 Talking Points)

The DC Fire Department??

I dont have an exact quote.. but I think thats what he said in the Goldberg segment.

Something about it was their job to know how many people were in the city in case of an emergency.

Edit: some more research turned up:

http://features.csmonitor.com/politics/2009/09/14/that-photo-of-the-912-march-on-washington-its-fake/

Pete Piringer, public affairs officer for the DC Fire and Emergency Department.

Piringer “unofficially” estimated that between 60,000 and 75,000 people had shown up. He added that the photo circulating conservative sites was almost certainly not from this year

Of course... Idiot conservatives will still claim 2 million people.. because reality doesn't really have that much importance in their world.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-08-12/the-gops-misplaced-rage/full/

Of course... Idiot conservatives will still claim 2 million people.. because reality doesn't really have that much importance in their world.

Oh yeah, I completely agree there's no possible way in a million years that was two million.

Lets be honest here..

95% of these people are basically just protesting the election. Paul-ites may be wrong, but at least its about actual issues.

I doubt it's 95%, but you're right that many of them are just upset that he won. Same with some of the people who flocked to Sheehan during Bush and Starr during Clinton. There's always going to be people who are just bitter their team didn't win.

I watched it passively for about 30 minutes online, and did see several well-dressed, well-spoken people voice sensible opinions. I think a lot of what we see is just too warped by sensationalism to be useful, even if we try to average out both sides. We get the batshit crazies on one side and the Obama-gonna-pay-my-bills people on the other, and none of them represent the actual populace one iota.

Yes the people there were very reasonable, they certainly respect the 1st amendment. Here is one person carrying a sign that is pro healthcare reform. His right to assemble was respected :devil

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Because the 1st Amendment grants the right to antagonize without being booed. That poor 'widdle guy. :rolleyes:

Here is some people not shouting. Of particular interest is the sign carried by the guy who thinks everyone should learn english.

UASS1qFAIQ8

You know what's humorously ironic is the guy singing the Sinatra cover during that first bit was a black dude that was very light on his feet. The few minutes I watched started right about the time he came on stage, and we both dropped our jaws at the unintentional funny.

So what exactly was the point to this anyways? Other then the organizers despicable and transparent attention grab of doing it on September 12th. The only unifying message seems to be "THE GOVERMANT IS BAD" yelled as loud and angrily as possible.

Edit: oh, this was a glenn beck made thing? Nevermind, no wonder it makes no sense.

Man, you feel for those poor metro cops, although I must admit, if I'd have been that guy I'd have had a smile on my face the whole way through thinking of the walmarter coronaries I might be inducing.

So what exactly was the point to this anyways? Other then the organizers despicable and transparent attention grab of doing it on September 12th. The only unifying message seems to be "THE GOVERMANT IS BAD" yelled as loud and angrily as possible.

Edit: oh, this was a glenn beck made thing? Nevermind, no wonder it makes no sense.

You have to have a reason to peaceably assemble? I thought it was one of the basic rights outlined in the Constitution.

Great Rover, now I start the day slightly nauseous.

ACORN is the secret version of Hitler's army?

The whole point the organizers, Dick Armey, and other republican operatives and lobbyists, had in having this protest was to fight healthcare and banking reform. The problem is that they are tapping into a vein that they pretty much can't shutoff.

Think about it, one woman in the video yells at the guy how she pays an arm and a leg for health insurance and that is ok with her.

What will happen is there will be another Oklahoma City type bombing because these are the same republican leaders who were screaming that Bill Clinton was pissing all over the constitution because he believed in universal healthcare. They whip a bunch of morons into a fervor, while completely ignoring the constitution and the right to vote against what you don't agree with, wave the flag and America be damned. It's about the party, not about the people.

You have to have a reason to peaceably assemble? I thought it was one of the basic rights outlined in the Constitution.

Yeah, usually having a reason makes sense. Do you know of any large groups of people peaceably assembling without reason? "Hey dude, what's with that huge group of people assembling over there" "I don't know and neither do they"

But on that note there is the guy who had the reform healthcare sign and from looking at the video he needed protection from the peaceably assembled crowd so he could peaceably assemble.

You have to have a reason to peaceably assemble? I thought it was one of the basic rights outlined in the Constitution.

I never said "you have to have a reason", your post makes no sense.

You have to have a reason to peaceably assemble? I thought it was one of the basic rights outlined in the Constitution.

http://www.nps.gov/nama/planyourvisit/upload/Public%20Gathering%20Application%20&%20Attachments%20-%20Expiration%202010.pdf

You have to have a reason to assemble there, at least.

You have to have a reason to peaceably assemble? I thought it was one of the basic rights outlined in the Constitution.


Its called loitering.

"Hey.. 2 Million >cough60,000cough< of my friends and me want to hang out at the Washington Monument and play ultimate frisbee. Is this where we get a permit?"

Loitering implies that you're indigent or interested in committing a crime, merely hanging around without reasonable grounds for presuming that was decided to be Constitutionally protected by the Supreme Court in the 90s.

Did any of you read the article I linked? I guess Bartlett must be a liberal commie pinko too?

Did any of you read the article I linked? I guess Bartlett must be a liberal commie pinko too?

Not only did I read it, I posted it all over the place! Thanks, great find!

Nobody who would benefit from reading that would get past the title.

The dream we should hold out to our neighbors is the restoration of a conservatism that is worth talking to. A version no longer tied to jibbering loonies and an outright criminal gang. (http://www.davidbrin.com/ostrich.htm)

Interesting article from David Brin (noted scientist and author of both fiction and some interesting books like The Transparent Society), from 2007.

It was a great article, I read it just didn't have much else to add. I'm pretty sure that reasoning isn't worth the time. The democrats have the majority in the House and the Senate, Obama has around a 55% approval rating; they should just do whatever the hell they want IMO and get judged for it in the mid-terms. Listening to these large groups bitch and moan about Hitler and Socialism is a huge waste of their time.

10 Lessons for Tea Baggers:

1. President Obama Cut Your Taxes
2. The Stimulus is Working
3. First Ronald Reagan Tripled the National Debt...
4. ...Then George W. Bush Doubled It Again
5. Republican States Have the Worst Health Care
6. Medicare is a Government Program
7. Barack Obama is Not a Muslim
8. Barack Obama was Born in the United States
9. 70,000 Does Not Equal 2,000,000
10. The Economy Almost Always Does Better Under Democrats

The Sources are here (http://crooksandliars.com/jon-perr/10-lessons-for-tea-baggers)

Agree with Rover..

Mucho props Phel.

http://www.nps.gov/nama/planyourvisit/upload/Public%20Gathering%20Application%20&%20Attachments%20-%20Expiration%202010.pdf (http://www.nps.gov/nama/planyourvisit/upload/Public%20Gathering%20Application%20&%20Attachments%20-%20Expiration%202010.pdf)

You have to have a reason to assemble there, at least.

You have to be scheduled to hold a Special Event, according to that document. The right to Peacibly Assemble is still a Constitutionally protected right, requiring no one's "permission".

So what exactly was the point to this anyways? Other then the organizers despicable and transparent attention grab of doing it on September 12th.
And this year, September 12th was on a Saturday, so maybe it was just a day organizers could make sure everyone could attend. I suppose they could have held on the day before, but not as many people would have showed up, being a Friday, and all. :rolleyes:

Did any of you read the article I linked? I guess Bartlett must be a liberal commie pinko too?

I have it bookmarked for reference. Thanks for the find.

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/facepalm

And this year, September 12th was on a Saturday, so maybe it was just a day organizers could make sure everyone could attend. I suppose they could have held on the day before, but not as many people would have showed up, being a Friday, and all. :rolleyes:

Come on Sixee, I know you are not that stupid.

That's why there was a little sarcastic face after my statement.

Although if they really had wanted to capitalize on the September 11th attacks, they could have held it on that day. I'm sure there would have been a lot more of an uproar if they had, though.

Sorry my mistake. I apologize...I know you aren't stupid. I gotta quite posting when I've got twelve things going at once.

Personally I don't like anything political tied to 9/11....every man, woman and child in this country should be united against that cowardly act....except Ward Churchill of course.:devil

Personally I don't like anything political tied to 9/11....every man, woman and child in this country should be united against that cowardly act....except Ward Churchill of course.:devil

It would be nice if we could unite against something that didn't lead to hating a significant, largely-innocent chunk of the world.

that didn't lead to hating a significant, largely-innocent chunk of the world.

It shouldn't...and it doesn't for my part. Now for the 70% slob American public...it might. I don't like the Muslim religion...but then I don't like any organized religion.

It would be nice if we could unite against something that didn't lead to hating a significant, largely-innocent chunk of the world.

Wouldn't ignorant be a better description? They don't know any better because they haven't been afforded the opportunity?

Innocence inticates not being guilty, but I think not standing up to the extremists in the religion makes them guilty, just somehow unaware they they are.

Maybe one of the bigger brains on the board will set me straight.

By that logic you're also guilty in the death of about a million Iraqis?

There have been voices and movements for modernization, secular humanism, and the values of the Enlightenment in Iran, Egypt, Turkey, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, the list goes on, for decades. Unfortunately, those voices weren't the ones with the oil rights, and we not merely ignored them, but funded their counterforces.

You did ask Sixee.

I guess I would be guilty, if I voted and was not well versed in the candidates I voted for.

Although I could be considered ignorant for driving a car, and participating in the Capitalist Utopia that is America.

I guess I would be guilty, if I voted and was not well versed in the candidates I voted for.

Although I could be considered ignorant for driving a car, and participating in the Capitalist Utopia that is America.

so you knowingly supported the murder of a million iraqis? well, thats much better.

so you knowingly supported the murder of a million iraqis? well, thats much better.

I guess since you didn't stop us, you are too. Murdering pig dog.

The clear conclusion is the entire world is pretty much guilty of everything since all of us failed to stop it. This could get messy!

The clear conclusion is the entire world is pretty much guilty of everything since all of us failed to stop it. This could get messy!


Damn! Does this mean we are flawed mortal human beings after all?

The clear conclusion is the entire world is pretty much guilty of everything since all of us failed to stop it. This could get messy!


But Bush said Jesus wanted it.

I guess since you didn't stop us, you are too. Murdering pig dog.

atleast we tried (see: hanx blix)

atleast we tried (see: hanx blix)


OMFG..you really think we would take his word over that of Jesus speaking through GW Bush? Plus how else could we let Eric Prince and Blackwater wage their religious war? It's not like we have alot of stupid people in America, unlike you swedes who get all peacy and stuff. If you guys would just attack some countries you could borrow money from the chinese just like us.

If you don't watch out we'll buy up more of your companies like we did with Volvo and Saab and turn those into financial sink holes too.

Learn something man....learn something!!!!

so you knowingly supported the murder of a million iraqis? well, thats much better.

Well I could always claim the Devil made me do it.....if I were religious.

What's your excuse for not stoping it?

Well I could always claim the Devil made me do it.....if I were religious.

What's your excuse for not stoping it?

what do you mean, personally? well...im not eligible for voting in the UN security council, nor do i possess a personal army, you halfwit.

You could always come to the US and shout your beliefs outloud. Then you can experience our free healthcare:p

I recommend doing so near one of our marine bases.

You could always come to the US and shout your beliefs outloud. Then you can experience our free healthcare:p

I recommend doing so near one of our marine bases.

this could possibly be the weirdest attempt at a threat in the history of mankind, kudos.

You could always come to the US and shout your beliefs outloud. Then you can experience our free healthcare:p

I recommend doing so near one of our marine bases.


HAHA...but you know...oddly enough the Marine Corp probably has the most open minded in its NCO and officer corp. It has many North East educated officers. The Air Force on the other hand tends to be very right wing.

Interesting Article

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1924348,00.html?cnn=yes

Yeah, but Air Force officers rarely work out. Try near an Army base. They tend to be more Right Wing, AND have the physical stature to lay you out.

That was a good article Rover.

Yeah, but Air Force officers rarely work out. Try near an Army base. They tend to be more Right Wing, AND have the physical stature to lay you out.

That was a good article Rover.


Well in the words of Marine General Lewis B "Chesty" Puller:

The Air force is good at delivering the mail and the difference between the Army and the North Koreans is that you can find the North Koreans.

That was a good article Rover.

Good but not fact filled for sure.

The Kids in the Hall did Glenn Beck before Glenn Beck did Glenn Beck:

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LOL...this is great. Watch the guy doing interviews explain to the people about Czars. The best part is the guy who say's "You know this how?" LOL

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Kids in the hall was a great show.