http://www.alternet.org/rights/95351/at_jfk_airport%2C_denying_basic_rights_is_just_ano ther_day_at_the_office/?page=entire

Omar (not his real name) finished his fifth year in biomedical engineering at City College in June. He had just arrived from Beirut, where he visited his family and was waiting to go home to the apartment he shared with his brother in Harlem. Despite his near-perfect English and designer jeans, Omar looked scared. He rubbed his hands and rocked softly in his seat. He had been waiting for hours already, and, as he pointed out, a number of people -- some sick, elderly, pregnant or holding sobbing babies -- had too. There were approximately 70 people detained in our cordoned-off section: All were Arab (with the exception of me and the friend I traveled with), and almost all had arrived from Dubai, Amman or Damascus. Many were U.S. citizens.

We were in the front row, sitting a few feet from two guards' desks. They sneered at each bewildered arrival, told jokes in whispers, swiveled in their office chairs and greeted passing guards who stopped to talk -- guards who had a habit of looping their fingers into their holsters. One asked his friend how many nationalities were represented in the room. "About 20. Some of everything today."

First they came for Arabs,
but I didn't speak up
because I wasn't an Arab?

First they came for Arabs,
but I didn't speak up
because I wasn't an Arab?Dude, have you lost all ability for comparison? There is none between this (if it's even true) and the genocide of a race of people.

How did it start? How long did it take?

Trust me San, I am by far no fan of the TSA.

Instead of watering down a very real and historical atrocity with your hyperbole of how TSA inconvienenced some people for a few hours, get some perspective. If they loaded these people into trains and were never heard from again, then shout your analogies.

Yeah, having people submit to a screening process is just as bad as as turning people from another religion into soap and lampshades. I want to know where our ovens are, the ones we use to burn the corpses, so we can pick through the remains for the gold fillings, and such.

Trust me San, I am by far no fan of the TSA.

Instead of watering down a very real and historical atrocity with your hyperbole of how TSA inconvienenced some people for a few hours, get some perspective. If they loaded these people into trains and were never heard from again, then shout your analogies.

Well there is this little place in Cuba...

Well there is this little place in Cuba... Yeah, I've heard some rather horrible stories coming from Castro's Cuba.

I'm not comparing the TSA to holocaust. Review your history about the relatively tame events that led up to it, and how gradually that happened.

And, as Taleren points out, we have been carting people off for years now. If rendition isn't akin to "disappearing", I don't know what is.

There's a train going to Cuba from the U.S.? Someone should tell all those people building rafts to just walk the tracks, it would be a whole lot easier....

Sixee and Akipt, do you really honestly belive that it could not happen here? We already have a political candidate who at many times has had to show that he is not a muslim. Why is that? Is there something wrong with muslims? Odd how a Mormon could run for president and get serious consideration and yet a Muslim would be shouted down, and lets not forget the mormons have magic underwear.

This isn't only a thing against arabic people, it's a thing against a specific religion.

do you really honestly belive that it could not happen here?I wholeheartedly believe it can happen anywhere. Which is exactly why I don't think you should be crying wolf when it's not. If it ever does happen and you've spent the last however many years being a discredited idiot, you'll not be able to do anything about it.

I wholeheartedly believe it can happen anywhere. Which is exactly why I don't think you should be crying wolf when it's not. If it ever does happen and you've spent the last however many years being a discredited idiot, you'll not be able to do anything about it.


Oh, thanks for the heads up, I'll be sure and look for your PM informing me of it's time to stand up against something like this.

This was particularly interesting:

being a discredited idiot

Think about this, look back in the posts, at the very first Republican Nominee Debate, and I am not a republican, I posted here that Ron Paul seemed to be the only one of them that knew what he was saying...and funny thing...his own party has done its best to discredit him. They discredit people who stand in their way...NEWS FUCKING FLASH!

Sure it can happen here. The problem is, if you overreact to every situation with: 'ZOMG thats how the Nazis started off!!!11!1!1!' you desensitize people to actual situations where the government is overstepping its boundries.

Is it bad that they detained these people and took a closer look at them because they fit the profile, yet were innocent? Absolutely.
Are they being put aboard trains (transport planes) and carted off to Cuba? No.
When that starts happening, then we can get up in arms about it.

However, what would your reaction be if the TSA didn't screen people coming into this country and something untoward were to happen? Do you think we should just focus on the cleaning up of the aftermath of such an incident, or try to do something to stop it?

When it comes to protecting our very way of life, do you think it's best to err on the side of caution or recklessness? I can only speak for myself, but I've come to realize that you should question either the intelligence or motive of anyone who suggests the latter.

When it comes to protecting our very way of life, do you think it's best to err on the side of caution or recklessness? I can only speak for myself, but I've come to realize that you should question either the intelligence or motive of anyone who suggests the latter.By all means do so. I applaud it. I just think you're not doing yourself any service by automatically assuming every fuck up by an overbearing government bureaucracy is the first step towards holocaust.

If it were even remotely an isolated event, I would agree.

Specifically about this article that irked me (first of many)... I arrived at JFK Airport two weeks ago after a short vacation to Syria and presented my American passport for re-entry to the United States.I'm sorry your trip ended so badly after fucking traveling to a state that sponsors terrorism. Puhleease. Next time go to Cancun.

I suppose we need a list of Fox News Friendly countries that are safe to visit, if you want to remain innocent until proven guilty?

I guarantee you that I help fund and further "a state that sponsors terrorism" far more with my SUV than she did with her vacation to Syria. Almost all of us probably do. Hypocrisy++.

Sure it can happen here. The problem is, if you overreact to every situation with: 'ZOMG thats how the Nazis started off!!!11!1!1!' you desensitize people to actual situations where the government is overstepping its boundries.

Is it bad that they detained these people and took a closer look at them because they fit the profile, yet were innocent? Absolutely.
Are they being put aboard trains (transport planes) and carted off to Cuba? No.
When that starts happening, then we can get up in arms about it.

However, what would your reaction be if the TSA didn't screen people coming into this country and something untoward were to happen? Do you think we should just focus on the cleaning up of the aftermath of such an incident, or try to do something to stop it?

Innocent Muslims have been carted to Guantanamo Bay for a few years now, what do you mean, "When that starts happening"?

I suppose we need a list of Fox News Friendly countries that are safe to visit, if you want to remain innocent until proven guilty?I'd accept a State Department friendly country actually.

Visiting =/= Paying for gas. hyperbole++

This lady went there, probably ate some food and bought some trinkets and baubles. Maybe a few cents of her money eventually trickled down to the "terrorists".

Our 3rd largest supplier of oil directly funds fundamentalist Islam schools with a portion of our oil money. I can drive my Jeep downtown and back, and support terror more than her vacation ever could have.

Sorry San, I don't buy that either. Assuming she is there for tourism, which I highly doubt, she is directly helping (hotel, meals, etc.) the economy of a known terrorist state. You buying gas could indirectly, through covert funding, siphon some of that money to schools that could produce terrorists... a bit of a reach to say you are funding terrorism more.

<doing my best Austin Powers impersonation> Who has a short vacation to Syria, I mean really?

One other thing, I understand based on the article it's proper to conclude that this treatment is happening at JFK, it's another to assume it's happening everywhere and condoned by policy in the Office of Homeland Security. I'd like a little more info on that before I start assuming there's a concerted effort to work over people with darker skin.

Interesting...but of course...it's just as whacky as seeing small green bigeyed creatures to think this holds water. Read Article (http://www.cnn.com/2008/SHOWBIZ/books/08/14/author.terror.list/index.html)

I've never heard of it being contested that Saudi money pours into fundamentalist groups (http://articles.latimes.com/2008/apr/02/nation/na-terror2). That money isn't coming from renting camels to tourists...

As for the situation with the airports, this isn't at all new. A few minutes on Google may definitely be enlightening, if this is the first you've heard of the "special treatment" people are getting in our airports.

Sixee and Akipt, do you really honestly belive that it could not happen here? We already have a political candidate who at many times has had to show that he is not a muslim. Why is that? Is there something wrong with muslims? Odd how a Mormon could run for president and get serious consideration and yet a Muslim would be shouted down, and lets not forget the mormons have magic underwear.

This isn't only a thing against arabic people, it's a thing against a specific religion.


I don't believe it would happen here Rover, because people like you and me would say "Fuck this", and take up arms in a revolution against such an atrocity against our history and beliefs. It would turn "Red Dawn" into a training film.

What is happening here though is that the double D gang (Dubya and Dickie) has done such a grand job of subverting our laws and twisting the truth that they have an entire security force now in charge of our transportation system who are barely a step or two up from Wal-Mart greeters. Unfortunately, these folks have a little bit of authority, and just like any kid told to take names while the teacher is out of the room, they relish it and abuse it all too often.

I am not worried at this time of a mass hysteria overtaking the country and focusing hatred on any target group, as was the case in Germany. There is always the potential, and further attacks by fanatical Muslims could give more impetus to such a wave of hate, but I don't see it in my lifetime.

But like I say, if our government ever goes off that deep end, I completely believe that there would be a revolt within our country, and one hell of a lot of folks who have served the country would be taking up a position on the other side of the government.

(Now, how long before the knock on my door)

I think the danger is that, if you're one of these sociopaths, you would have learned from the past.

Things have been deteriorating at unprecedented levels, yet very gradually. From one day to the next, it's just little chunks they're chipping away. Nothing drastic enough to induce a response. As long as the air conditioning and cable TV works, people keep bending a little farther backward.

It's like cooking a frog.

I think the danger is that, if you're one of these sociopaths, you would have learned from the past.

Things have been deteriorating at unprecedented levels, yet very gradually. From one day to the next, it's just little chunks they're chipping away. Nothing as drastic enough to induce a response. As long as the air conditioning and cable TV works, people keep bending a little farther backward.

It's like cooking a frog.


You left out iPods and cell phones.

/chuckle Rover it's not magic underwear, it's blessed ;P

I agree with you Byl, I'd certainly be a revolutionary in that case.

/chuckle Rover it's not magic underwear, it's blessed ;P


I heard it is impervious to skid marks.

Where can I get some of those?

I don't believe it would happen here Rover, because people like you and me would say "Fuck this", and take up arms in a revolution against such an atrocity against our history and beliefs. It would turn "Red Dawn" into a training film.

What is happening here though is that the double D gang (Dubya and Dickie) has done such a grand job of subverting our laws and twisting the truth that they have an entire security force now in charge of our transportation system who are barely a step or two up from Wal-Mart greeters. Unfortunately, these folks have a little bit of authority, and just like any kid told to take names while the teacher is out of the room, they relish it and abuse it all too often.

I am not worried at this time of a mass hysteria overtaking the country and focusing hatred on any target group, as was the case in Germany. There is always the potential, and further attacks by fanatical Muslims could give more impetus to such a wave of hate, but I don't see it in my lifetime.

But like I say, if our government ever goes off that deep end, I completely believe that there would be a revolt within our country, and one hell of a lot of folks who have served the country would be taking up a position on the other side of the government.

(Now, how long before the knock on my door)

My question is this... If such a thing were to happen...

Would Akipt, Sixee, and Fandros stand with us against the government?

I am the government.

I am the government.

So you would stand by them? This is actually a pretty important question in regards to whether or not it is even worth discussing anything with you or not.

Would you stand with the tyrants or with the people?

You ignorant sob, never have I ever shown a racist side.

I've had a cross burnt in my yard due to my multi ethnic family.

My family has stood in protest against the KKK ( a rather significant force in mid Indiana in the 70s and 80s )

I've never ever allowed racial slang or tirades or hell any racist behavior in any form in my presence.

Careful when you single me out, next time I'll take off the kid gloves ;P

You ignorant sob, never have I ever shown a racist side.

I've had a cross burnt in my yard due to my multi ethnic family.

My family has stood in protest against the KKK ( a rather significant force in mid Indiana in the 70s and 80s )

I've never ever allowed racial slang or tirades or hell any racist behavior in any form in my presence.

Careful when you single me out, next time I'll take off the kid gloves ;P


wow... harsh reaction

I did not mean to imply you were racist.

I meant, as someone who generally shares the views of our current government, which is in power as these crazy things are happening... Would you stand by the government if they went down such a road.

A simple, "NO" would have sufficed :)

Again lumping me in because I dare to stand against you on some fronts?

I'm a moderate, there are things my govt does that I'm not happy with and there are some things I know have to be done even if we don't like them.

Would you stand with the tyrants or with the people?:rolleyes:

My question is this... If such a thing were to happen...

Would Akipt, Sixee, and Fandros stand with us against the government?


I am not sure if Sixee would be on one side or the other, or trying to figure out a witty comment to serve up, but I have little doubt that Akipt and Fanny would be just as committed to not allowing their country go down that path as I am. And, tho' you may not understand it, I would not want you on my side jedd, because I would not want to have to waste my time keeping you from redefining the focus to be some anti-Israel or pro-Iran tangent.

Nothing personal, just business.

Odd how a Mormon could run for president and get serious consideration and yet a Muslim would be shouted down, and lets not forget the mormons have magic underwear.

Wait a second bud, I think you need to rethink at least a portion of this little statement here.

I am LDS myself ("Mormon" is an unofficial and incorrect term by the way though, it has been adopted by the uninformed masses). I could choose to take a lot of offense at that little statement there, but I won't. The topic of the thread aside, there is nothing, ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with the LDS church or its members that should cause concern about a "Mormon," like Romney or even myself hypothetically, running for president. I'm not sure why you think a member of the LDS church should not deserve "serious consideration." I think you will hard pressed to find more honorable, good Christian people in most cases (non-affiliated rogue sects separated by a century or more don't count btw =).

If you want I can better inform you on the many misconceptions some people have about my church. Sorry to mess with the thread topic, but I had to say something here.

anime hitler says plz 2 stop fighting

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t257/evanluerding/DesktopBackground.jpg

Wait a second bud, I think you need to rethink at least a portion of this little statement here.

I am LDS myself ("Mormon" is an unofficial and incorrect term by the way though, it has been adopted by the uninformed masses). I could choose to take a lot of offense at that little statement there, but I won't. The topic of the thread aside, there is nothing, ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with the LDS church or its members that should cause concern about a "Mormon," like Romney or even myself hypothetically, running for president. I'm not sure why you think a member of the LDS church should not deserve "serious consideration." I think you will hard pressed to find more honorable, good Christian people in most cases (non-affiliated rogue sects separated by a century or more don't count btw =).

If you want I can better inform you on the many misconceptions some people have about my church. Sorry to mess with the thread topic, but I had to say something here.

I didn't say mormons were bad,I pointed out that something as being different from the standard wasp protestant as being acceptable such as a mormon and being a muslim as not acceptable.

Personally I don't care what religion someone is and I don't think it should have any bearing at all in an election in the US yet we all are aware that people will often vote for or not vote for someone based on a religion whether it be Catholic, Muslim, Jewish, Mormon etc. Kind of weird to me as the whole US government thing is supposed to be separated from any church.

I have no misconceptions of your church and honestly, I don't care about yours or any church, I'm church indifferent unless they are acting as a bunch of judgemental a-holes...then I care.

Sorry but I have to take issue here

I have no misconceptions of your church Rover
and lets not forget the mormons have magic underwear. Rover
/chuckle Rover it's not magic underwear, it's blessed ;P Fandros
I heard it is impervious to skid marks. Rover


Fuck you both thank you very much. Cados is just nicer about it. But I was too until a few years in the military and countless retarded comments just like these.

Sorry but I have to take issue here

Rover
Rover
Fandros
Rover


Fuck you both thank you very much. Cados is just nicer about it. But I was too until a few years in the military and countless retarded comments just like these.

Sometimes your a complete fucking idiot and this is one of those sometimes. You don't have the brain capacity to realize the magic underwear comment was pointing out how things are misconstrued by people you stupid fuck.

Wth Elemak...

I live in Utah, I've been dating a LDS gal for almost 10 years. My comment in no way was meant as a slam on the Church.

Think you need to back off on the steriods just a lil.

Excuse me, but this is probably the one thing on Earth that truly offends me on so many levels. But I fail to see how implying that they're magically skidmark proof or poking fun at something like that is related to pointing out the differences between the fundies not wanting to support Obama, but being ok with supporting Romney.

And maybe I'm an asshole (no, no maybe about it. I am one) But there is nothing that makes me more angry than people spreading religious intolerance and ignorance which is exactly what your were doing. Intentionally or not.

Nah, you're not an asshole. You're thick but definately not an asshole.

I said the underwear weren't magic they were blessed.

I'm sorry, where is that a slam on the Church?

I'm also a Vet and don't cotton to any type of intolerance, religious or racial.

Ease up man, really take a breath.

Excuse me, but this is probably the one thing on Earth that truly offends me on so many levels. (1) But I fail to see how implying that they're magically skidmark proof or poking fun at something like that is related to pointing out the differences between the fundies not wanting to support Obama, but being ok with supporting Romney.

(2) And maybe I'm an asshole (no, no maybe about it. I am one) But there is nothing that makes me more angry than (3) people spreading religious intolerance and ignorance which is exactly what your were doing. Intentionally or not.

1) Lets see, I wasn't exactly pointing out that "the fundies" will vote for Romney as I was pointing out how there are THINGS IN DIFFERENT RELIGIONS THAT ARE NOT UNDERSTOOD BY PEOPLE AND THEY MISCONSTRUE THEM TO THE POINT THJAT IT SKEWS THEIR ABILITY TO MAKE A RATIONAL DECISION BASED ON THE REAL FACTS. That should be easier to comprehend for you I would think, you see son before you were even a potential stain on your parents mattress I was observing, first hand, religious intolerance in the world so when you think to yourself...I know something Rover doesn't...well...think this, I did it, I felt it, I said it and thought it 30 years before you did.

2) No, I'm being an asshole, you're being an idiot.

3) Once again we revisit the comprehension aspect.

Personally I don't care what religion someone is and I don't think it should have any bearing at all in an election in the US In the interest of continuing an intelligent discussion...ahem...

I would say that an individuals religion is very important in an election, if they are actually a believer. Religious beliefs can be very strong, very extreme, and often tell you all sorts of things about an individual. I really wish I had kept the article where, back in his first presidency, Bush mentioned that he believed he was chosen by God as a leader for the country. That's the sort of thinking of kings and emperors, not of course that Bush has acted at all like a king. Excuse me, I just vomited a bit in my mouth trying to type that.

Ask the pro-choicers how they feel about a religious president, for example. Or Kansas creationists. Gays and lesbians trying to get married? Seriously, some day in the future some historian will look back and wonder how the hell we found time to debate the definition of marriage.

I really believe that the average religious individual, regardless of faith, is not a danger, and wouldn't concern me in the oval office. If Obama were Muslim, big deal. Romney? Eh...there were plenty of other reasons why I didn't like him. But look at, say, the middle east, and examples of religious extremism, and it's evident how quickly a little faith gets out of control.

I am not sure if Sixee would be on one side or the other, or trying to figure out a witty comment to serve up, but I have little doubt that Akipt and Fanny would be just as committed to not allowing their country go down that path as I am.

If my Government turned into a "Fourth Reich", you can bet I would do my best to oppose it. If that meant taking up arms, so be it. If it meant trying subversive tactics, I'd help to employ those. If it meant serving up witty, but thought provoking comments, then that would be my speciality. ;-)

And, tho' you may not understand it, I would not want you on my side jedd, because I would not want to have to waste my time keeping you from redefining the focus to be some anti-Israel or pro-Iran tangent.

I couldn't agree more.

I also seem to remember him saying he wouldn't do well just "taking orders". Sounds like he'd be more of a liability than an asset in those regards.

If Obama were Muslim, big deal.

It sure would make the extremists in the Middle East squirm if he did become President. How could they justify attacking the U. S. if that were the dynamic?

On-topic-slight-derail again, Kennedy was a tough win because he was a Catholic; indeed, he had to do a speech which Romney copied his from, stating that if he was elected that the Pope would not be a part of his government.

Religion has been a part of politics for longer than many think.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jO4r5P-IrpcMMRXXuesdp0y4gLpAD92LTLD00

A New Jersey native, Scherfen, 37, said he believes his name was placed on a watch list because he converted to Islam in 1994 — even though he is a Gulf War combat veteran. Both he and his Pakistan-born wife, who is also a Muslim, said they have no criminal records or ties to terrorists.

In their lawsuit, the couple said they have been repeatedly subjected to searches, questioning and detention at airports and border crossings since 2006. Ticket agents and others have made vague references to their names being on lists, but there was no clear explanation for the extra scrutiny.

Scherfen said he learned that he was a "positive match" on a list maintained by the Transportation Security Administration in April, when his employer, Colgan Air Inc., suspended him for that reason. The Virginia-based regional carrier continued to pay him for the first two weeks of his suspension, but he is currently on unpaid leave and expects to lose his job if his name is not taken off the list by the end of this month.

Scherfen had worked for the airline for about a year when he was suspended, a Colgan spokesman confirmed.

The couple said their attempts to resolve the situation through the government have been unsuccessful.

Lets pretend you're not brown: http://www.kingmandailyminer.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&subsectionID=1&articleID=16860

Still want to argue the situation is under control? The most disturbing thing about these stories is that even after a person is released, we never see repercussions on those who acted wrongfully, or even official acknowledgment of the situations.

That's ridiculous. In order to protect us from the "terrorists", we've made our own government agencies the true terrorists.

New leadership coming in, I'm sure it'll all be campfires and singing happy songs soon.

Oh and the rest of the world will love us again, noone will try to impose their will upon us or bomb our folks while they are abroad. /nods

What possible outcome do you think our current course will have, other than continuing to escalate their retaliation? Groups like Al Qaeda would be out of business, without us destroying the lives of millions and justifying their existence.

If we put as much effort into not murdering women and children abroad as we put into the TSA goons, the TSA wouldn't be needed in the first place.

Don't get me wrong I think we're definately stepping over the line in an effort to protect.

My point is, we were being bombed/abused and targeted before this happened which directly led to feeding into the fear factor.

We need to do something , I'm just at a loss how we do that.

We've been spinning this cycle since the 50's, when we started interfering with Iran's government. We had never been a target of (terror) attack until after we had fucked with their lives for decades.

To me, the solution is clear: quit creating terrorists!

Yes, we will have to defend ourselves against the enemies we've already created, for years to come. But, if the choice is defense or continuing to create new enemies where they didn't previously exist, I choose defense.

It's not as if I'm identifying some radical, new idea. The CIA has been pointing this out for decades. They coined the term blowback ~50 years ago, specifically to describe the undesired consequences of their own actions abroad.

They just don't care. Creating enemies helps justify their own continued existence. They will never stop this cycle on their own.

We've been spinning this cycle since the 50's, when we started interfering with Iran's government. We had never been a target of (terror) attack until after we had fucked with their lives for decades.

To me, the solution is clear: quit creating terrorists!

Yes, we will have to defend ourselves against the enemies we've already created, for years to come. But, if the choice is defense or continuing to create new enemies where they didn't previously exist, I choose defense.

It's not as if I'm identifying some radical, new idea. The CIA has been pointing this out for decades. They coined the term blowback ~50 years ago, specifically to describe the undesired consequences of their own actions abroad.

They just don't care. Creating enemies helps justify their own continued existence. They will never stop this cycle on their own.

/nods

Okay what if:

If we didn't "interfere" in their affairs do you portend that the radicals wouldn't find a reason to lash out at the West?

I contend that they'd find another reason, because we're infidels if nothing else.

Hell OBL can directly thanks the US for their help against Russia, can thank the US directly for the monies in his pocket (I believe his Father was pro US and received funds for some of his various endevours no?). Still he uses a pool of hatred for the US as a tool to further his own agenda. Much akin to Adolph using the hatred of the Jews to push forth his own agenda.

I think you, like others, are jumping on an easy bandwagon ascribing the actions against us due to our actions in the ME as opposed to the extremists merely finding it easier to project their terror/power in the modern world.

I don't think that's the root of the issue as much as the common man in the ME having no other outlet for their collective disgust with their living conditions and the world around them. The Iman's use that and focus it on an external as opposed to allowing them to begin to question how they've been forced to live.

I really can't put into words what I'm trying to express. I'll have to give it more thought ;(

I think there are definitely those in the Middle East who would always try to foster hate toward us. There will always be fucked up people like that.

Just like there are fundamentalist Christians who bomb abortion clinics and beat up gay guys, even though there's certainly nothing about that in the Bible. Same with these fundamentalist Islam types distorting a religion to justify their own sociopathic tendencies.

It's just that we're taking these individual nutjobs and lending them legitimacy with our own actions.

So many of their current crop were quietly enjoying their peaceful lives, until we killed their parents, children, loved ones, or friends. Those people would never have bought what the extremist groups were selling, until we came and proved the extremists correct.

(I agree we have our own extremists btw)

Perhaps, but there is nothing we can do short of turning the area into a glowing glassy field to reverse the last 50 years.

It's not going to go away, so now what do we do?

We could certainly do tons more to secure our own boarders,ports.

How do we curtail the cells/folks that could/are in country already without stepping on liberties?

I for one would certainly deport and work against any religious leader speaking/preaching hatred such as those they have in England atm.

Yes, that makes me evil but that's an evil I can shoulder.

What else? I do think it's bs that someone that merely converted to Islam in on a dern watch list....utter bs ;(

(I agree we have our own extremists btw)

Perhaps, but there is nothing we can do short of turning the area into a glowing glassy field to reverse the last 50 years.

(

Which area? The one in Iran, or Iraq, or Afghanistan, or Turkey, or Libya, or Yemen, or ENGLAND, or SPAIN, or FRANCE, or ITALY? There are Muslim enclaves in every country now, and where there are Muslims I have no doubt there are also fundamentalists pushing their agendas. So, where do we go after them?

Short of all out religious war where any Muslim is a target, there is no turning back a tide that has been steadily increasing over the past 50 years. There is only the hope of mitigating it somewhat by our actions; and, the more we could do to provide an increased standard of living, and job opportunities, and stop trying to force our concept of democracy down their throats, the better off we might be.

I really can't put into words what I'm trying to express. I'll have to give it more thought ;(

I think you are trying to convey a term used in stage magic called misdirection. You get the audience to look in 1 direction, away from where the real action is going on.

The Mullahs get the comman man in the Middle East to look at the Great Satan <tm> of the United States, and how awful they are, to keep them from focusing on how it's really the Mullahs that are doing the most damage in the Middle East.

I think you are trying to convey a term used in stage magic called misdirection. You get the audience to look in 1 direction, away from where the real action is going on.

The Mullahs get the comman man in the Middle East to look at the Great Satan <tm> of the United States, and how awful they are, to keep them from focusing on how it's really the Mullahs that are doing the most damage in the Middle East.

LOL!!!

Please tell me how the mullahs are doing more damage then the US in the middle east.

LOL!!!

Please tell me how the mullahs are doing more damage then the US in the middle east.

Suicide bombers, stoning women to death for being in the company of men not related to them, and the intolerance of Judiasm all come quickly to mind....

Suicide bombers, stoning women to death for being in the company of men not related to them, and the intolerance of Judiasm all come quickly to mind....

Suicide bombers are extremists... not all mullahs are extremists.

Stoning women is disgusting, but claiming that bombing multiple countries, displacing thousands and killing thousands of innocent people is not worse is laughable and idiotic.

There is very little actual intolerance of Judaism. Only the ignorant believe religion to be the reason the Jews are hated. The Jews are hated mostly because of Israel's existence on what they believe to be Palestinian land, and Israel's actions toward those Palestinians who happen to be prisoners in their own tiny strip of land.

The United States and Israel have done more to harm the Middle East then any middle eastern mullah could even dream of doing.

While I was walking through the FDR Memorial yesterday, this quote reminded me of this thread.

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Thank you, San!

I love that memorial, its so different from the rest of them.

I love that memorial, its so different from the rest of them.

It was one of our favorite. We had no idea how large it was going to be, since you can barely even see it's there.