A close friend of mine signed up for the Army Reserves just weeks after September 11th. Feeling a strong obligation to help their country in a time of need, they didn't know what else to do. Two things their father tought her during her lifetime above all else were an allegiance to country, and a respect for a higher education.

During her boot camp her father became ill and slowly died of colon cancer. After her graduation, her father too ill to attend pulled her aside and shared with her that he had only one regret in life, that he never finished his dissertation to finish his PhD. I won't do the story justice, but basically he got everything but the dissertation part of the degree. He asked her to promise to finish what he started, and to earn her doctorate.

So now she is 2 1/2 years into her term in the army, and less than a year after her father's death. She is graduating from American University at the top of her class, and just found out about a graduate fellowship (basically she teaches and gets full tuition and some pay) at George Washington University in their Masters of Public Policy program.

Then this past weekend, her unit was told they are going to have to go to Afganestan. This will ultimately put her academic life on hold and she will forfeit her fellowship. She will have to reapply for grad school and the financial aid package will undoubtably suffer.

Her goals are long term, she hopes to one day run for office and personally I think she'll do a damn good job. My question is, would it be sheepish and unfair for her to transfer units to one that doesn't deploy this summer, in order to persue her graduate school and academic career? As an outsider, could you vote for someone who felt their academic career was the most important thing to them at this time, given the circumstances? As the friend, I find myself in a very tough place to give her advice on this issue, and hopefully some unbiased outsiders could share with me some insight.

If she's planning to go into politics in the future and run for office, the last thing she should probably do is try to transfer out of the unit. It would make it look like she used the army for its benefits and then when it came time to pay up she bailed.

Doesn't do wonders for public opinion, and is something that is always latched onto(I'm assuming she plans to eventually run for higher office instead of mayor of a small town or something).

Yeah, see it all the way through. You're looking at it from the negative side, whereas I see nothing but more opportunity coming her way after she does her duty with her unit in Afghanistan.

The fellowships and everything else will definitely be here when she gets back.

And tell her thanks for the service Kelraz :)

She should go for the university degree.
THere's hundred thousands of other people that can take her spot in afghanistan and "help her country" without giving up so much, but there will be noone at home making her degree for her.

I don't argue the need to "fulfill your duty for your country" in this case at all. The fact that I am against the army and the wars and so on anyways has nothing to do with it. Lets assume I, too, agree that we need american soldiers in afghanistan. Even then I do believe that she should in this case still look for herself first, especially since this opportunity may not come again. Serving your country may be a honorable thing. Giving up your own dream and life goal for it, is simply stupid, because noone will thank you for it. Oh and even if, a "thank you" wont give you back your missed opportunity.

The inherent problem with what you are saying Taino is that she (the friend) wants to continue in public service. A good military career with combat zone experience is good. Take John Kerry, for example, the majority of his early voter base was veterans. Those folks look toward candidates for public office that have some type of military service. Hence, by serving in Afghanistan, she is increasing her chances of fulfilling the life long dream of public service. The schools should, in my opinion, give reservists the opportunity to serve their country without losing the scholarship.

The schools don't though, her fellowship will be passed on to another student and she won't have the option to apply again next year (she can't interview if she's in Afganestan).

I'm siding with Taino on this one but its kinda ambigious, she's still serving in the army ... she is just switching units to one that won't deploy this year to fulfill her fathers dying wishes. Is that terribly wrong?

She's not giving up her dreams don't go overboard there drama queen. She's fulfilling the duty to which she gave her word and has been paid.

Taino... heroes are the people that step up and perform their duty when their number is called. Not that ones that "look to themselves first" and take the view that "oh well there are thousands who can take my place." A person who says I will be honorable as long as its convenient for me... has no honor.

Two things their father tought her during her lifetime above all else were an allegiance to country, and a respect for a higher education.

and..

to fulfill her fathers dying wishes

Taking those in order, she should fulfill her duty to country first, then do the doctorate.

/shrug

Just guessing, her father would agree with me.

Serve her country first and foremost. She will regret it by eluding what she knows is her duty. My niece was home over Christmas for her RR from Iraq and had to return for 3 more months till she is done. The whole experience has been an eye opener and she has learned so much in so little time.

To say no one will say thanks...haha you live on the other side of the world Taino. When she was back for 2 weeks just about every gradeschool to highschool in her county wanted her to come and speak about her experiences. Rather than think of herself like some like to do she gave up valuable family time to do just that.

Im proud of her and told her thanks many times has had the entire family/community. Thats whats important more so than missed opurtunities that come and go our entire lives.



Ibudin

I seriously doubt she would be allowed to transfer if her unit has been informed they are going. If that was possible lots of people would just transfer around to keep from going overseas.

Rigin

1) It kind of boggles me that they would even send reserves to Afganistan and not active duty soldiers in place that are staitioned here in the states doing non-combat or combat zone operations to begin with.

2) It is ultimatley her choice and she knows her sitution better than you or how she may have explained to you, Chad. So don't be surprised if there are other reasons why she may want to ship out to Afganistan, or stay at home.

3) Let's face it, life is unfair, nothing ever goes as planned, and somewhere inbetween you get screwed even more. This just so happens to be one of the cases and my heart goes out to this person.

4) Honestly, if she got as far as she did in life already at a young age, this would only be a minor setback for someone so driven as her from the way it sounds, and honestly she'd probably grow more as a person by shipping out than she would by staying at home in the States.

5) It was her choice to join the reserves in the first place, and she accepted those consequences when she swore an oath. This kind of reminds me of Varsity Blues when the dude from Dawson's Creek confronts his dad and says "I don't want your life." Now I'm sure that she may have an interest in what her dad did and she desperatley wishes to fulfill the dying wishes of a man she loved, however, she's going to have to accept the responsibilities of what she chose, and focus on that to help her discover herself.

6) That's my two cents. Tell her that some stupid frat boy from Southern California wishes her the best of luck, Chad.

Shewdogg, damn man you surprise me sometimes :) Good words!

Just guessing, her father would agree with me. ~akipt

You know, thats a good point too. I'm really having a tough time getting in the middle, and I've basically not supported her either way other than telling her I'd support either path she chooses. Its a really tough choice, either way. If I was her, I'd definately do what Taino suggested ... but then again I wouldn't have joined the army reserves in the first place.

But it is that easy to transfer units. There's 10 people transfering out, and another 10 overly eager to transfer in right now.

3 members of our department tried to transfer from their unit when they started painting their vehicles sand colored and there were rumors they were leaving for Iraq. That was 4 months ago. They just left for a base in Wisconsin to train and in a couple weeks they are going overseas. Trust me the guard just doesnt let people transfer on a whim.

Rigin

Look as a vet I'll give it to you straight.

Finish your tour, don't balk on promises made. Especially if said military term helped pay for her higher education.

She wants a life of public service, then swallow the bullet and serve before you take the bennies.

Anything less than following through would earn mine as well as many other Vets contempt.

Guess it's about her finding out how well she actually listened to both lessons her father taught her eh?

Fandros Finglaflin

Do the time.

If her word isn't straight enough for her to follow through on her commitments, I don't want her in public service in my country anyway.

She shoudl fulfill the commitment that she made to the Military.

She should also make sure her commander writes a letter to the University. Due to the fact that her reserve is being deployed, with proper documentation, she may in fact be able to return to the Fellowship program that She is interested in. There are many laws and Policies that wil protect her in this case. JAG or her Unit Legal office should be able to point her in the right direction.

There is little to no chance of her getting transfered after they made the announcement that the unit is being deployed.

she should do what she wants IMO
what benefits her more, or what she would like to do more
if her father was even remotely decent, he would appreciate anything she accomplishes in life that's important to her..

She made her decision, so its a moot point. I am kinda glad she sided with what I've hoped she would, but then again I'm selfish and I don't want her to leave. She spoke with someone in charge of her unit and they encouraged her to be transfered, as her unit is airborne and people have countless number of people that are not only airborne certified (I.E. they can jump out of a plane) but also people who wish to deploy. She is going to switch to personel in another unit a bit closer to her grad school and earn her masters. Should there be a need for soldiers overseas (and if good ole GWB wins again I can probably guess there will be) she will take a tour or two in the last 2 years of her term.

Additionally another 5 people in her unit will be transfering with her or to the national guard to avoid deployment for whatever reason (one has a sick child, another one just got a promotion at his work). Its pretty commonplace, from what I'm hearing.

And thus through natural selection the brave become rare.

One has no right to judge without having been in a similar situation. Nevertheless, if I ever wind up having that sort of dilemma, I sincerely hope that I will have the character to deploy.

I was in a situation simliar.

I chose to honor my oath...

Next time we can hope she musters enough courage to serve instead of use her Military tour of duty.

I only hope she doesn't run for office....ever.

Fandros

This decision will come back to bite her in the ass if she ever decides to go into politics.

Look how closely scrutinized politician's service records are...

Your opponents are ALWAYS looking for dirt on you... look at GWB right now.. the 'scandals' that were brought up in the democratic primaries, etc.

It will come up, and the question will be asked: When your unit was scheduled to deploy, why were you suddenly transferred?

Good luck coming up with an answer that will satisfy enough of your voter base to win an election.

This is the sort of thing that pretty much automatically disqualifies you from entering higher politics in the US. But it's her decision - her desire to fulfill her dad's wish to finish a Doctorate was greater than her desire to enter politics. We all make choices and must live with them.

Shes a female, she wouldnt be seeing fighting regardless. However, if you sign the line, you know the possibility exists that you'll be deployed. If that happens, you gotta go...or you're a scumbag getting something for nothing.

Well as a reservist her financial aid and any other scholarships should be protected if she is deployed. If they aren't she should raise some questions to her school, more than likely they would be willing to work something out.

As a Nat'l Guardsman or Reservist you have a lot of protection against getting fucked if/when you get deployed. However all too often people aren't aware, and just take it when the situation arises.

Shewdogg, to answer your question, the reason so many soldiers in the guard and reserve are deployed right now, is because to cover all the missions going on right now would tax the active duty military far too much, so they have us step in. This is the backlash of cutting defense budget spending, because for so long we didn't ned quite so much, but now we (arguably) do. So they finally wipe the dust off us and ship us out the door to spread democracy and win our nation's wars.. an stuff.

Your friend should do her duty, it sucks yes, trust me I'd rather be home with my wife than in the middle of the balkans making sure people don't start killing each other again, but I'm also proud and happy to be here making sure people don't start killing each other again at the same time. It's a trade off, I think your friend will find that despite the liberal media's take on things she will find her experiences overseas rewarding beyond even what having a graduate degree could give her. She can finish that later, but she can only do this now.

Taino... heroes are the people that step up and perform their duty when their number is called. Not that ones that "look to themselves first" and take the view that "oh well there are thousands who can take my place." A person who says I will be honorable as long as its convenient for me... has no honor.

That's the very bullshit you get told over and over again so you're a good sheep. No, this is not an american thing. Its all over the world.
So you have the choice between having your dream of your life being fulfilled, the last wish of your father, lead a happy life, make something out of your life in the very direction you always worked for or going to war in Afghanistan... and you choose to go to war.

You call it honorous. I call it fucking stupid.
You accuse me of "going for whatever fits me best". I say hell yes I go for whatever fits me best. And why? Because it fits me best!
Its a damn fucking good reason, don't you think? It fits mew best. Its the one thing I'd prefer to do. So I do it. Wow how insanely unconventional! I do what I prefer! What a shocker!

See, there's thousands of people that can do that work in afghanistan that do NOT give up their whole dream of life and the last wish of their father for it.
What you get told all your life long is that all those soldiers work for their couintry, they serve their country and they are honorable. So far so good. but don't those hundrets of million americans that work their asses ff every day in their life.. don't they work for their country, too? Doesn't everyone that works, do soething for their country? Don't you think this woman will be doing more for her country when she can fulfill her dream and her fathers last wish, when she can do what she really loves and really puts her heart and soul in, instead of being in afghanistan being aware every da yof having given up the chance of her life?
Do you think that would be good for her life and at the end, for your country? Its always honorous to fight in wars. But to fulfill your dreams, to suport your country by being active, producitve, positive and loving at your job or every day life is not considered honorous, its not a great and important thing for your country. Thats so fucked up.

I am helping my country, the whole world (I am against the principle of countries) the very most when I am doing what I love, when I am productive, positive and helpful, not when I am forced to do things that keep me from doing what I love.

Now lets say that the army needs EVEY SINGLE PERSON; lets say america would be attacked, in war, in a crisis and they need every possible man to somehow defend your country, then fuck yes, go serve. EVen if would serve if it would absolutely be needed and there as no other way, if my country would be invaded by germany and they want to kill us all and we need every man to survive, then I'll be fighting for my country.
But when I have one choice, once in my life, one very chance to fuzlfill my dream, my fathers wish, to have a happy life and reach my goal, or.. I could go fight in a war where millions of others cound take over my spot without giving up everything.. then fuck yes I will let someone else take my spot that doesn't have to throw away his/her big chance in life.

Call me unhonorous. I call it living a happy and positive life.

Your a fucking coward Tanio ..we are not the sheep we are the coyotes that eat the sheep.

I find it remarkeable that they allowed her to transfer so easily. Perhaps it's easier in the reserves. The reason the reserves are getting called up for more of these operations is tempo.

Many servicemembers are facing back to back rotations. Korea, Bosnia, Afghanistan, and Iraq etc. are causing the Defense Department to use all of our assets a little more wisely. Upon returning from Korea I found out that that my new unit was heading to Iraq. The reserves are being used to help distribute the hazardous duty time a bit.

Another point to bring up. You would be surprised, and somewhat appalled at the amount of people who signed up just for the financial aid the Army and other branches offer. When faced with a combat rotation many people start to have these "problems" that don't allow them to deploy.

Of course this doesn't seem to be the case here. Just making the point.

Taino,

Ok so I sign a loan note for a car for say 4 years. and 2 years into the aggreement I decieded I dont want to pay anymore and I stop, by your logic that is ok right. Since it makes me happy not to fulfill my obligation that I signed 2 years ago. She made a choice to join the reserves, knowing full well the requirements and responsibilities, yet now she should be allowed to stop paying because it gets difficult? No she signed up, said yes I want to serve for this term, knowing full well that at anytime she could be called up and shipped out. its called being responsible for your choices in life. I chose to work for the governement a long time ago, and still have nightmares about some of the things I saw and did, but I signed up and did what I said I would. Its all about responsibilty and accountability.

Integrity is when you do what is right when noone is looking, or you can get away with doing wrong.

Noone forced her to sign up for the reserves. She gets benefits for having done so...but also might have to give something in return. If she doesnt do her part she is a theif.

I wouldnt suggest showing taino your back...

(I am against the principle of countries)

Heheh. I love it.

/agreed

Don't ever count on Taino when the chips are in jeopardy.

He's likely to decide he rather likes the yellow of his own backside.

Grow up boy, and when you get a life in the adult world think again upon the paper mache' shell you've built it on eh?

Ignorant cowardly unprincipled jackass....

Fandros

Taino you're a fucking idiot.

I'm just about chosing the best way for everyone. Yes she signed up for 2 years, but still circumstances changed a shitload. I don't talk about Car loans, I don't talk about whatever bulsshit you read into this.
I talk about this very damn situation.
She has the chance of her life! And there are millions that can take over her job in afghanistan. So why the hell should she not take this chance in life and get herself in another division and take this chance of her life please?
She's still in the army, she's still fulfilling her duty. But she can at the same time fulfill her dream of her life, take her biggest chance she ever got.
So tell me whats the dishonorable thing about it.

Thisis all just about taking a chance in life when you get it. Its not about abusing anyone, breaking your word, about backstabbing anyone, about doing anything like this. its all about taking your chance when you have one.
I don't believe that any of you oh so honorable guys on your high horses will go serve in afghanistan when you could take the chance of your life and fulfill your dreams.
You will sure just let everything go in your life, let your biggest chance ever pass, will ignore the last wish of your father and sit in a hole in afghanistan, when you had the perfect chance to make everything come true, right? Yes I am sure you will.
Tell that your guineapig, but not me.

I'm at least honest at say that I take a chance in life when I have it. You may be the sort of guys that just sit in our holes and wonder why the fuck life has nothing to offer for you, right? Thats at least what it all sounds like.



P.S: I consider myself a very honorable person. I always keep my word. It is very very important to me. If I commit myself to something, I stand up for it.
But, there are situations in life, where things just changed so damn very much and unexpectedly, that the situation just requires a special solution. And this, at some times, can require you to break your word. Now you don't just break words. You talk about it. You talk to the person you gave your word to and explain the whole situation. If this situaiton is truly so special that this "break of word" is required, then this person will understand.
Thisis not about putting your knife in someones back, its simply taking chances when they come. And I only am for it in very very special cases.
And this case we are talking about very damn much is one of them.

I also gave my word to my ex fiancee that I will marry her and live with her for the rest of my life. Yes I did. BUt then within 4 years we both found out that it just wont work out and that it is better and absolutely needed that we go our own ways. So I broke my word. Do you consider this unhonorable? Should I have lived with her forever, for the rest of her life, being unhappy and leading a sad life because we are not made for eachother? According to your logic, I should.
I broke my word. I am unhonorable.

A word means very much to me. But there are some very very rare circumstances, where a word must be broken at times. But the "break of word" must also be done honorous. I talked to my ex and we went through all this in peace and everything was based on understanding. I didn't just pack my shit and leave her from one day to the other. Those are the differences.
Abd yes I do think that those 2 examples can be compared. Its both times commitments you make but due to very very much changed situations after a longer time, some special actions become required, which were absolutely unexpectable beofre. It just can happen. Welcome to.. life!

Tiano said

whole rambling post about how she should break her word because it is in her own best interest.


The he said

P.S: I consider myself a very honorable person. I always keep my word. It is very very important to me. If I commit myself to something, I stand up for it.

Except of course when it is your own interest not to keep your word.

So basically your word is only worth a shit when it suits you.

It is not possible to make someone understand your point if he will at all times do everything to avoid understanding you in the first place.
In this sense, I said it all.

Please Tain keep posting this crap. The boards have been a little dry these days. I encourage you to keep posting crap. That is all.

A better way to put that Taino is, I have said two things that are in direct conflict with eachother and I hope by posting something saying you just wont understand that I can back away.

Either you live up to your commitments or you don't, there is no "oh but this is a great deal so I will go back on my word, but other than now I will keep my work and live up to the contracts I signed."

I'll take quoting out of context for $1,000, Alex.

You think the other 10000 people being shipped over there couldn't come up with the same excuse for how this is going to ruin their dreams to have to spend a year away going to war? You have no understanding of duty, honor or loyalty. Someone not wanting to go because they have deep deep feelings against the war.... I can ALMOST sympathize with. Someone not going because they just don't feel it's in their best interests at the moment... that's a worthless piece of shit.

I really dont see what all the hoopla is about.

It's not like she quit the army.Whatever she is going to be doing back here in the states,has to be done by someone ,right?

So if there are things that have to be done here and there are people that are WANTING to take her place,why is this such a bad thing?

It's not like she manipulated anything or shot herself to get out of duty.She simply was GIVIN the choice to go or not to go,and since she had so much going on here,she decided to stay.

Ahh... the voice of reason.

www.humanplague.com/archi...ellent.jpg (http://www.humanplague.com/archive/pissoff/pics/excellent.jpg)

I really dont see what all the hoopla is about.

Forgot her, this thread is now about Tiano's twisted ideas regarding keeping his word.

Why is her dreams any more important than anyone elses? Many made the decision to deploy - left their wifes, husbands careers, children. Why? Cause most understood that duty, honor and sacrifice are more than mere words - they are part of being an American citizen.
Peeps that continually cry "whats best for me" is in many ways whats wrong with America today.