I'm sorry - but, dramatics aside, I think the reaction of the community warrants a vote of confidence in the administrative abilities of Sanchek.

Reasons?


Accusing us of negativity while openly contemplating - and threatening - to shut down our community.
Ignoring the popular requests of the community, such as installing a logo, citing reasons such as he doesn't believe the community has behaved well enough for it.
Proving too emotional and bias in the moderation of topics and posts, such as hijacking topics himself, while moderating it when done by others.
Using his powers as a means to an end.

This community has been going for almost a decade, and we all, new and old, have a vested interest in the way it is ran. In the time of Ediena, Hubbe, Kivorn and Thormir (don't play the fool, Sanchek - we all know why he left. Well, I certainly do), the community used to be consulted, its opinion meant something. The raison d'etre of forum administration is now one of 'my way, or the highway.'

I'm sorry, I won't stand for that. And the reaction of the community the past few days suggests that neither will it. There is no personal attack here, so I cannot be banned. This post has a right to exist. And I believe the community has a right to vote on what has become the considerable unpopularity of Sanchek as a moderator. I'm not suggesting his removal, or that he step down. But I do hope a vote will perhaps raise some questions within Sanchek himself, his role here, and his future participation.

Please vote on whether you feel you still have confidence in him, or whether it is now misplaced, and lost.

How dare you act as though you can shut down Ayonae Ro on a whim. This is our community. We've been here for ten years. We've survived more than a power trip. We will remain here, whether you come or go. You crossed a line by threatening to shut this forum down.

That was a mistake.

So much for the attacks eh? I guess being a mod gives you the power to make them. /sigh

youre a fucking faggot and this faggot post is dumb and stupid


edit: And gay


zomg ad hom!!!!!!!

I imagine it's dern tough to stay impartial and above the fray after so many years. Question is, what is the alternative?

'Question is, what is the alternative?'

- Someone in charge who isn't threatening to shut down the community, or refuses to implement popular suggestions because he's clearly lost faith in the community he serves?

Sorry, if San is going to descend into madness and put someone who's clearly not centered himself in charge I've no use for this place.

Overmoderation, coming down hard on those who are the opposite side of your own opinion and then blasting that side while allowing one attack after another from your own side shows unmitigated gall.

I've no interest in being somewhere where such lunacy as Ainwein being a moderator and San flying further off the handle is the standard.

Keep this vein of insanity up and you'll be the one eyed king in the land of the blind. Noone will ever bother to try and see your point.

youre a fucking faggot and this faggot post is dumb and stupid


Edit: and gay


Like I said...perhaps better management and social skills...oh...don't forget to ban yourself.

There is no personal attack here, so I cannot be banned.

Why would I ban you? I've tolerated dramatics like this thread for years without banning people, yours included.

Carry on.

Filiden - Subtlety...

Fandros - I haven't even done anything yet so shut the fuck up.

Overmoderation, coming down hard on those who are the opposite side of your own opinion and then blasting that side while allowing one attack after another from your own side shows unmitigated gall.Show me where this is going on? Seriously, show me one instance. HOLY SHIT SANCHEK IS THE LIBURAL MEDIA OF AYONAE RO!!!111

I do think it's a little much to suggest shutting down the forums, and I do think that popular ideas should be put into place, especially ones that may revitalize the community.

But stop acting like Fuhrer Sanchek is deleting all the posts he doesn't agree with. That is just stupid.

Aside from the temp ban that he just gave to Halo, what the hell has he even really done as far as bans/probations?

Filiden - Subtlety...

Fandros - I haven't even done anything yet so shut the fuck up.

Show me where this is going on? Seriously, show me one instance. HOLY SHIT SANCHEK IS THE LIBURAL MEDIA OF AYONAE RO!!!111

I do think it's a little much to suggest shutting down the forums, and I do think that popular ideas should be put into place, especially ones that may revitalize the community.

But stop acting like Fuhrer Sanchek is deleting all the posts he doesn't agree with. That is just stupid.

Aside from the temp ban that he just gave to Halo, what the hell has he even really done as far as bans/probations?


Second post in this thread where he's attacked someone. Clearly he is not the person to moderate when he can't moderate himself.

Sorry Ainwein, you're still too wet behind the ears to control your own temper without flying off the handle and cursing.

Grow up, you are not fit to be a moderator.

We will carry on.

Do you think you can threaten to shut this community down, and not have any response? How dare you. Who do you think you are?

And if you do not ban Ainwein, everybody will know the contradiction and hypocrisy you practise in your so-called moderation.

You crossed a line when you threatened to shut us down.

Serve this community, or stand aside.

I'm sorry, I shouldn't have told you to shut the fuck up. MY BAD.

And obviously, me doing so completely lets you off the hook as far as actually explaining any of the dumb accusations you filled your post with.

And seriously, you guys are fucking dense.

SARCASM - HELLO?

But fine. Your community can now dwindle to 12, or whatever the fuck it is.

I'm sorry, I shouldn't have told you to shut the fuck up. MY BAD.

And obviously, me doing so completely lets you off the hook as far as actually explaining any of the dumb accusations you filled your post with.

Too late...just post here...you're better at just being a poster.

Sanchek...don't remove Ain's post...why hide it?

Conspiracy, mainly.

Jesus fucking Christ.

IT WAS A JOKE!

You guys are acting like fucking children with your burn the witch at the stake, WERE GONNA GET EM! bullshit.

I don't need to call people names to make my points, especially not stuff like faggot or gay.

For shame, people.

It's gold, actually. The community is voting on their confidence in Sanchek, at the same time he's given someone of Ainwein's calibre moderation powers, and has to moderate his first post as moderator.

Not only that, but Sanchek's entire argument is based on the purity of his decision-making, when not 2 days ago he banned me for personal attacks, which he is clearly refusing to do to Ainwein for the same thing!

Talk about giving someone enough rope to hang themselves with.

Serve this community, OR STAND DOWN.

Jesus fucking Christ.

IT WAS A JOKE!

You guys are acting like fucking children with your burn the witch at the stake, WERE GONNA GET EM! bullshit.

I don't need to call people names to make my points, especially not stuff like faggot or gay.

For shame, people.

LOL..it was not a joke and you know it.

I hope your affinity for drama has been fulfilled by getting your internet rage on over an entirely facetious fakepost.

On some forums, we'd say you got trolled. On Ayonae Ro, it's VIGILANTE JUSTICE!!

You go girl.

Sanchek - please delete my account. This place is done.

Not only that, but Sanchek's entire argument is based on the purity of his decision-making

Hmm, what argument is that?

Rover, what the fuck is your problem man?

Have you EVER seen me post something like:

this post is faggot and stupid fuck this

edit: and gay


You really think I post like that? Fuck, have you ever seen me even post in all lower case?

'Sanchek - please delete my account. This place is done.'

- No, sir. You are done. Goodbye.

Ain - I think you may have chose the wrong thread to be subtle and sarcastic in. You're posts have proved more of Halo's points than any others in the thread. Having you made a moderator was not a good idea IMO you're too volatile and your posts here prove it.

This demonstrates why trying to mod here is near impossible. There's too much angst against the current administration, stuff like this happens in long running communities. The membership of this forum is veteran and aged, we probably don't need as much moderation as what some may think. I'd just like to see the idiot spammers get banned when they register to post links about viagra and other dumb stuff. It has already been unmoderated for a long time. Why do we need to moderate now? You can either make a serious RL section with moderation or an anything goes RL section. There's more posting there than any other part of the board; there's a reason for that.

Does the number of members matter as long as someone is willing to continue the upkeep? I say no.

Rover, what the fuck is your problem man?

Have you EVER seen me post something like:

this post is faggot and stupid fuck this

edit: and gay


You really think I post like that? Fuck, have you ever seen me even post in all lower case?

It was probably in poor taste sir considering the recent turn of events and current hot topics.

Ainwein plays the Strafford to Sanchek's Charles I with alarming accuracy.

But it's exactly that, a witch-hunt. Sanchek is in question here. He bans one person for a reason he is seemingly unwilling to ban another for (instead he makes him a moderator!). When the community wishes to put up a logo, he refuses. When we call him out on his negativity, he threatens to shut us down.

The vote is 60/40. He must begin asking himself some serious questions.

The vote is 60/40. He must begin asking himself some serious questions.

I did. A Blueberry or regular waffle? The regular have flax seed oil in them, but the blueberries are also natural antioxidants. Tough choice.

I went with blueberry.

I would have went for raseberry, you know, it's rather symbolic of your role around here.

Serve the community, Sanchek, or stand down.

Blueberry was definitely the right choice. Highly recommended: http://www.vansfoods.com/product/organic-blueberry

Your refusal to acknowledge the vast deficiencies in your moderating role is only making it more obvious to everyone.

I'll tell you what. Seen as the majority don't have confidence in you anymore, if you put that little logo up like we requested, we'll forget about your contradictory banning rules; the comedy-gold mess created by giving Ainwein moderator status, seeing him swear at everyone in his first post, then you having to edit him, and then watch him asking to have his account deleted; we'll even forget that you wanted to shut this community down.

Put the logo up, and we'll make it all go away.

Or?

Stand down.

This is not a reality TV show. You don't get to vote people off the island to satisfy your need for drama.

Nor is it a Democracy. I hope you haven't been confused into thinking so.

The sad part about this thread is that Ainwein was going to post a set of guidelines and moderate by those guidelines, as has been requested. Whether you like him or not, he was going to give you a compromise, but you ran him off before he could even try. Bravo.

In fact, he was the only one who came to me and offered any constructive solution. That's why he got a shot at it.

'Nor is it a Democracy. I hope you haven't been confused into thinking so.'

- Indeed, I think we're finally seeing what this has *become*.

You're becoming useless. Obsolete. You stepped a line by threatening to close this community down. Here's a lesson, buddy-boy, we were here before you, we'll be here after you. And when you refuse to implement popular suggestions, you get in the way of communal progress, of friendship, of spirit. You've become a hindrance, unpopular, even hostile to the community.

You have no business being in charge. You don't tell us how this works, we tell you, and you serve.

Serve us, or stand down.

I don't understand the drama here.

I've had run ins with San. He can be a prick, but he does a good job moderating. He can be a bit glib about it, but ffs, he does it for free. And its obvious he enjoys busting peoples balls. Welcome to the internet.

Additionally I think he has been a major catalyst for debates and discussions and helps makes this place an interesting one. I think he has been taking a contrarian position on some stuff he may entirely believe, just to keep debate flowing.

But the bottom line is that he is overall, pretty fair. A few years ago I went after him relentlessly, every chance I had, in every way I could think of. I never once felt he used his moderator powers to act in a punitive or unfair way.

And Halo? Ultimatums? Really? C'mon. Who asked for a logo? I didnt, I could care less.

Who asked for a logo? I didnt, I could care less.


There is a whole thread taht sanchek derailed concerning a logo and sprucing up the place that started ALL of this.

'but he does a good job moderating'

- He banned me without banning Ainwein. He threatened to close the community down. He made Ainwein a moderator, who now wants to leave, he penalized topic changes, and changes them himself.

'And Halo? Ultimatums? Really? C'mon. Who asked for a logo? I didnt, I could care less.'

- http://ayonae.com/ayonae-ro-lets-be-proud-t12101.html
Who wanted it? Well, me, Fandros, Fildien, Rover, Ainwein (even!), Kelraz, Byl, Grey, and a few others.

The response?

Sanchek:

'I wouldn't bother with a logo.

Without moderation, this place quickly devolved into a cesspool of negativity...I have no intention of running a microcosm of this: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19/ and civil debate is apparently too much to ask of the polarized parties here.

So, if the situation doesn't improve soon I'll probably shut the thing down soon (Ryb willing).'

Yeah, he's a great moderator, isn't he? Jesus, L2.

What a bunch of drama queens... It's a fucking forum! San does a fine job.

What a bunch of drama queens... It's a fucking forum! San does a fine job.

pot/kettle/black

'It's a fucking forum!'

- Not if San doesn't feel like it is. He's going to close it down if we don't convince him otherwise, don't you know?

Good grief, I come back from a weekend of packing and preparing to move and a bomb appears to have gone off in the place?

Upon seeing the title of this thread, I had been prepared to write a post in support of Sanchek's hard work and sometimes heavy-handed moderating; but after having read the associated thread and its bizarre and reactionary 'I'm going to take (my?) ball and go home' comments I find that I cannot do so in an unqualified fashion.

To Sanchek: This community has existed for nearly a decade. Haven't we, after all that time, and considerable knowledge of and dare I say affection for each other, even of the grudging and antagonistic man-love variety evidenced between, say, Osgiliath and some of the other posters here, or your own devil's advocate and provocateur positions, *earned* the right to call each other poopy-heads if we so choose? We aren't trying to impress anyone at this point, and somehow we manage to go right on back to enlightening discourse after the dumpster-dives none the worse for wear. All Halo wanted was a *logo*, or a vote on a logo, and somehow he earned a ban for that?

I've greatly appreciated the work you've done as far as maintaining the board and its physical integrity goes, and enjoyed your topics and contributions to topics (even when, like others, you delight in deliberately playing the provocateur), but I do feel that your tendency to knee-jerk retaliate against anyone who calls *you* a poopy-head (or disagrees substantatively with you period) severely undermines the benefits of having you as moderator. You have maintained the *board*, but the excessive and arbitrary negativity evidenced by your most recent comments leaves a bad taste in people's mouths of a far more lasting sort than the occasional poo-flinging does and is ultimately corrosive to supporting a community of friends.

If you're tired of the job, there's no shame in stepping down, but to try to lay the rap for that on our behavior given the available evidence (and the long history we have with each other) doesn't pass the smell test itself.

I'm being rushed to log as IT needs to update my computer (we're under attack today), so I'll reserve any further comments for when I can get back online.

Sincerely,
Deborah A. Dixon
'Nydia Ywalmoriel"

Former Coercer - Autonomous Collective - Ayonae Ro

All Halo wanted was a *logo*, or a vote on a logo, and somehow he earned a ban for that?

If you read the related thread you mentioned, you know that's obviously not the case.

I can see how it might seem like a sudden decision, in that thread. I've been mulling it over for awhile now though, watching this place degrade and devolve to nothing but the same several sets of people bickering over the same topics.

Without the constant influx of new users from the server, the end is inevitable.

In fact, that unopposed attrition is precisely why the malcontents' voices are louder each year. The same volume of dissent has always existed on this board, going all the way back to the EZBoard days. The only difference is how little extra signal is present to squelch the noise.

So no, the comment about closing wasn't reactionary, even though I can see why it may have seemed that way. I really didn't want to see people waste their time on a logo for a sinking ship.

Isnt it the communities choice on what they can or cannot waste their time on?

Yes we are all harsh critics of each other, but we are all a family of sorts. If there was tragedy to anyone of this board the whole board would help that person. It's how it works.

Attrition will probably years from now end this forum, but this site is a mainstay of my online reading, i get a lot of my current events and views on life from this board. I also like to post entertainment reviews of TV and Movies here cause most of us in general like the same stuff and I love discussing the TV shows like we do in for example the Terminator thread or the Heroes thread.

This forum outlived the very server its named after. It cannot end as long as people want it around and are willing to support it. Which was proven over the last few days when Sanchek threatened to shut it down.

Dear Sanchek:

I think you missed the point of his entire endeavor, and others (most, judging by the responses to this thread) don't feel so negatively as you do about the board, its dwindling number of users, or its 'function'. You might see it as a sinking ship, and certainly it doesn't serve the same function it did several years ago when most of us still played EQ; but I'd submit that the proportion of signal to noise is not so different than when the board was in its heyday, and most of us consider it worth the trouble to check in daily or a few times a week and catch up with each other (assuming that the free exchange of ideas isn't being squelched in a heavy-handed fashion, something that has been an issue in the past along with the poo-scraping and, I would submit, has contributed as least as much to the decline in usership as the poo-flinging itself has).

Halo wanted the logo precisely *because* it's been a long while since the board has had anything but a tenuous historical connection to the (long since folded into Tribunal) server Ayonae Ro - an homage, as it were, to where we came from as a reminder of the strange serendipitious collision that brought us into each other's cosmology. I don't think that any of us think that this board is going to have a bunch of new users flock to it; but we certainly *can* make it a welcoming place for those who might like to reminisce, catch up with each other about what we *are* playing, what's been going on in our lives, and engage in a little pithy discussion (and the occasional poo-flinging). If the board goes gently into its good night, what's the shame in that? In the meantime, we might as well enjoy and honor it for what it is and has been...

If you feel negatively about it and are tired of it, that's fine, but next time you are thinking of unilaterally taking the board down, may I suggest bringing it up with the board community first? Although you moderate and host the board, you *aren't* the Ayonae Ro server community; everyone who contributes here is.

Sincerely,
Nydia

And I see Greystone beat me to the post by one minute :). Thanks for helping make my point...

Nydia for Mod 2009!

Other than Halo, it seems like you guys would rather settle down than lose this place. That's good.

I still want a moderator to stop the personal attacks in RLNAG, if we're to keep it open.

Any volunteers?

There are times with Grey, Jedd or others make me cringe with their opinions and such. However I wouldn't want any of them "gone" so to speak as I learn from everyone here. The manner of their communicating is less important to me than what they say ( or don't say ).

There's too few people left to throw out permanent bans for simple annoyances anyway. Deleting the offending posts and/or a short time-out is what I have in mind (which Ainwein was going to do).

Sanchek needs to get laid, time for a community drive!!!

Anyways..lets face it for some reason I keep coming here on a daily basis, whether not to see the current hot topic or at the very least to get some new one liners from various posters here. Its a hodge podge group of folks with similar likes and albeit dislikes...but I never leave the forum thinking...what a waste of time.

I appreciate the various people I've interacted with and many things I have learned from them. Honestly have not found another forum quite like it, don't know that I ever will...whether its dieing or not is irrelevant.


May be a sign of the times, we simply don't have anything to talk about..........THIS WEEK!

I have a lot on my plate right now, and am in the middle of a move, but if you feel that having a moderator for personal attacks in the RL section is imperative, I could probably be convinced to do it. However, I will be largely off internet between the 18th-27th of the month seeing that I'm moving into my new (well, built in 1920 :) ) house, and so someone else will have to cover (or help cover) during that time as I'd only be accessing the forums from at work.

Sincerely,
Nydia

Ahh, love you guys /group hug

Edit:

'I really didn't want to see people waste their time on a logo for a sinking ship.'

- That wasn't the case, Sanchek. For whatever reason, I think you were more bitter that previous I, and others, had told you to stick your nose out of it, and now I was suggesting you do something for the community. I think that provoked something in you, the sort of 'he can't have it both ways.' And maybe I was trying to. But whose ever fault it was, it is a destructive mechanic of interaction, and I value the Aro forum more than I do my own argument, or your moderator stance. I started this poll to create a crack in your reaction - to ruffle your feathers. The mere suggestion by you of shutting our community down exploded in me. And I like to think that the result of this poll shows you that you crossed a line with a lot of people. Sure, I know you say it doesn't matter, and it's not a democracy, but I know it does matter with you.
I think our reaction is important, and it doesn't matter if you hold all the actual power, but you cannot remain for long at your post if you are not working *for* the community.

I know I'm pushing the logo thing, but I think it is important. And I would appreciate it, as would we all, if you worked with us in achieving it.

The community want a logo - will you help us implement it, Sanchek?

Ignoring the popular requests of the community, such as installing a logo



This was popular?

Also a poll with 15 people voting doesn't seem like a landslide statement either way.

But this better fun then normal. So carry on.

Second post in this thread where he's attacked someone. Clearly he is not the person to moderate when he can't moderate himself.

Sorry Ainwein, you're still too wet behind the ears to control your own temper without flying off the handle and cursing.

Grow up, you are not fit to be a moderator.


Seeing the post quoted that San deleted, and then his subsequent, I would have said much the same as Fannie has, but only need to quote his and say ditto.

I must admit I was curious about motivation when San said 'weinie was going to be a moderator now: was it to help keep the forums free of spam and such, and assist San by freeing up some of his time; or, was it to gain a title and some power that could be wielded over others?

The first bit of controversial dialogue receives a "you are a faggot" response? If he has not banned himself, why not? Does a moderator not have banning authority, and does that post not qualify? Is this going to be the direction now, having kids insulting the grown-ups when they disagree rather than engaging in discussion and debate?

To answer your question, no a moderator can't ban himself on vBulletin (nor can an admin).

Is there some kind of middle ground? Such as locking threads and moderating content as opposed to just using the ban feature? Granted, some of the more notable poo flings people probably let run to see if they would go anywhere and eventually they died off on their own.

Yeah, that's how we used to do things, but I got lax and then people got too accustomed to the latitude. I'd assume the new moderator(s) will prefer that over a ban, if effective.

youre a fucking faggot and this faggot post is dumb and stupid


edit: And gayI mean, I even added the "Edit: and gay" to make sure that even the most dense of you understood it was facetious. I figured between that, the overuse of 'faggot' and the all lower-case with no punctuation, you'd kinda catch on...

Kudos to Greystone for being the only one with their head on correctly this morning.

I mean really, dumb and stupid? ... :confused:

Sanchek is a dumb and stupid nazi communist.

Anyway, since people apparently thought I was a mod anyway and I hate Sanchek more than several of you combined, he went ahead and made me an Executive Vice President of Moderation to help drive the board to further ruination and self-loathing.

Sanchek is a dumb and stupid nazi communist.

Anyway, since people apparently thought I was a mod anyway and I hate Sanchek more than several of you combined, he went ahead and made me an Executive Vice President of Moderation to help drive the board to further ruination and self-loathing.



OMG...Malse is gonna gank SSRA

I mean, I even added the "Edit: and gay" to make sure that even the most dense of you understood it was facetious. I figured between that, the overuse of 'faggot' and the all lower-case with no punctuation, you'd kinda catch on...

Kudos to Greystone for being the only one with their head on correctly this morning.

I mean really, dumb and stupid? ... :confused:

I think it was an issue of timing...kind of like talking about puking at the first dinner you have with your girlfriends parents.

OMG...Malse is gonna gank SSRA

But you'd already killed Emp at the zone line by the time he got there?

I still think there is time for me to sway Jedd, LL and a few others to the conservative point of veiw.... I exercise regularly, been increasing my fiber intake, and sleep in a hyperbaric chamber nightly......

I just need some more time man!!!

I still think there is time for me to sway Jedd, LL and a few others to the conservative point of veiw.... I exercise regularly, been increasing my fiber intake, and sleep in a hyperbaric chamber nightly......

I just need some more time man!!!

LOL!!! take my views on gun control as the most you will get !

If you read the related thread you mentioned, you know that's obviously not the case.

The case seems to be that he got temp-banned for the kind of posting that's perfectly normal for this forum.

OMG...Malse is gonna gank SSRA


Is he gonna jump up and down on the rug?

The case seems to be that he got temp-banned for the kind of posting that's perfectly normal for this forum.

Find me people who got away with that kind of garbage in the General forum, and I'll give them a ban too. Get back to me on that one.

i want you banned for derailing multiple threads constantly.

'Find me people who got away with that kind of garbage in the General forum, and I'll give them a ban too. Get back to me on that one.'

- Ainwein.

But as I said, let's move on. Logo please?

'Find me people who got away with that kind of garbage in the General forum, and I'll give them a ban too. Get back to me on that one.'

- Ainwein

False. Prove it.

'Originally Posted by ainwein
youre a fucking faggot and this faggot post is dumb and stupid


edit: And gay'

- And, if you play the 'it was a joke omgosh' card, here's his response....

'Fandros - I haven't even done anything yet so shut the fuck up.'

- At least he agreed with everyone else on this matter:

'I do think it's a little much to suggest shutting down the forums, and I do think that popular ideas should be put into place, especially ones that may revitalize the community.'

- But here's another banning offense I liked, he's actually managed to abuse the entire community:

'Jesus fucking Christ...You guys are acting like fucking children with your burn the witch at the stake, WERE GONNA GET EM! bullshit.'

- Even if you wish to fool yourself into thinking it was a joke, to save yourself the embarassment that was the fuck-up of making Ainwein a moderator, the community nonetheless took offense to his verbal attack. Ainwein must be banned, or you, I am afriad, will be undermined and must admit to carrying on the administration of this community in a contradictory manner.

The verdict is in, nonetheless. A majority of the community has lost faith in you.

But I think the more important verdict gathered from the last few days has been that you have lost faith in us. That is an unhealthy relationship. We do not have confidence in you anymore, you are contemplating the end of the community and are obstructing the progress of the community.

Be a man, step down, or step in line.

Serve us, put the logo up. Or step down.

[10:07] XXXXX: you know he's sitting there at the computer, with some loud English pop music blaring, thinking he's leading a revolution just like in his history books.

Oh, and how true this turned out to be.

Keep fighting the good fight, Halo! This is very serious business!

Gather the troops! Viva La Revolución!!!

Oh, this is getting desperate. Posting anonymous abuse.

What's more sad is that you're talking about the subject with your friends outside of the forum.

Wait, didn't you ask Sanchek to delete your account here, on like page 2?

Yeah, all my friends outside the forums are just dying to know the escapades of Haloface, the enchanter from Ayonae Ro.

It was a fucking funny joke, that achieved a whole new level of hilarity when you actually said that you feel like you're leading a revolution.


But I think the more important verdict gathered from the last few days has been that you have lost faith in us. That is an unhealthy relationship. We do not have confidence in you anymore, you are contemplating the end of the community and are obstructing the progress of the community.

Be a man, step down, or step in line.

Serve us, put the logo up. Or step down.Seriously?

You're trying to become the White Knight of Ayonae Ro by... demanding a logo?

/boggle

Carry on. Keep trying to ridicule it. But the majority of people are fed up with the way things are run here. Call it La Revolución, call it whatever you want. Each time you do, it becomes more obvious how desperate you are.

I'm sorry it boggles you. But it's no surprise that it's beyond your comprehension.

Desperate?

Who is the one who made this post? Who has gone out of their way to appeal for help from nearly everyone on the board?

Multiple times now, you've actually typed out the phrase "Stand Down" in regards to a message board moderator position.

You have got to be kidding me...

Call it La RevoluciónAgain, hilariously, it was you that actually termed this a revolution. :rolleyes:

About the only thing I'm desperate for is to escape the boredom of work. You have done a fantastic job of making this possible, and for that I thank you.

This requires the Slow Jerk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkgMbU-we1o)

'Desperate?'

- I'm glad you agree. Sorry some of us have values. You know, principles. And spines.
And I'm sorry we all made you cry when you took up the mantle of moderator. That was the funniest few hours I've seen in my ten years here.

I like how you conveniently ignore the fact that you're the one trying to be the Jesus of Ayonae Ro, while I'm pretty much just making fun of you at this point.

But yeah. Values and principles are totally at play here...

What a morale dilemma.

To post the logo, or to not post the logo? (Remember - Serious business!)

So, when Sanchek ignores your repeated demands to STAND DOWN, what exactly are you going to do?

Please try to remember this is a message board for a game that has been dead for 5+ years, and not Waterloo.

It is absolutely no surprise to me that you think as much of this community as Sanchek does.

Which makes it equally unsurprising that he made you a moderator.

I like how you conveniently ignore the fact that you're the one trying to be the Jesus of Ayonae Ro, while I'm pretty much just making fun of you at this point.

But yeah. Values and principles are totally at play here...




Yes, you seem to have conveniently ignored the fact that you asked publicly for your account here to be terminated, and when Halo called you on that you conveniently ignore it again; does this speak to your values and principles?

San is the man behind the curtain, and 'weinie is like one of the flying monkeys wanting to be above the other monkeys. /shrug


But hey, the vote is now 13-8, so we obviously have more than the stated 15 members still. :)

Yes, you seem to have conveniently ignored the fact that you asked publicly for your account here to be terminated, and when Halo called you on that you conveniently ignore it again; does this speak to your values and principles?

San is the man behind the curtain, and 'weinie is like one of the flying monkeys wanting to be above the other monkeys. /shrug


But hey, the vote is now 13-8, so we obviously have more than the stated 15 members still. :)

Not necessarily, Sanchek can edit that value at any time to whatever he wishes;) But I didn't vote and I'm sure a bunch of people haven't, as well.
77 active members is probably a better barometer of how many people visit here now and again.

There's one person making a power grab in this thread, and it isn't me.

But yeah. I know I said I'd leave and when Sanchek deletes this account I'll gladly do so.

I readily admit, however, that I don't have the willpower to ignore such a comedy goldmine.

[10:07] XXXXX: you know he's sitting there at the computer, with some loud English pop music blaring, thinking he's leading a revolution just like in his history books.This was sent yesterday before most of this happened.

Then Halo actually proceeded to PM half the board asking for their support in his war effort (Or in his own terms, REVOLUTION!). I mean, you can't make this shit up.

Could you be more embarrassingly melodramatic?

Am I the only one who cringes when I read shit like "STAND DOWN" on an EQ message board... Over a logo?

Comedy gold mine?

The only gold mine here was when Sanchek made you a moderator, the first thing you did was start swearing at everyone, and then cried to have your account deleted, making Sanchek look even more embarassing than he previously did - as well as stripping you of any credibility you may have had.

I'm sorry Ainwein, but you can't talk about comedy gold mines. Your entire existence on this forum is a pathetic joke. Your attempt at responsibility (all 3 hours of it) was a pathetic joke. Your argument is a pathetic joke. Your spineless, gutless posts are a pathetic joke.

The next time I wanna see a post from you, boy, is when you've got something with some spine behind it. Otherwise, as Byl said, you can crawl back behind your curtain.

You can keep trying to undermine the facts here, but at the end of the day, just look at the poll. The majority of the community who have voted, have decided that Sanchek needs to re-think his position here, or go.

What can I do? Nothing. I don't need to do anything. But hopefully the fact that most people don't want Sanchek to continue as he has done, will be enough to create some sort of reaction in himself. If it doesn't, well - we'll all know what kind of man he is. And you can count on no one taking him seriously anymore.

You said "Stand Down" on an internet forum and were serious.

You actually said: "This is exciting! It's like a revolution!"

You're a very strange person. Boy.

Keep fighting the good fight, Halo! This is very serious business!

You know, it *is* serious business. Some of us who have been long term contributors to this board would prefer not to see its environment driven into a cesspool of toxic negativity and then strangled in the bathtub on the basis of that 'negative environment' by its own moderators. I'm very busy with RL right now and so have not caught all of the blow by blow of the last couple of days' drama, but I do have one thing to say in a general sense about all three of the recent and proposed moderators here: they are all autocratic and reactionary individuals who are adept at slinging out the abuse, but poor at rolling with the punches. Rolling with the punches, or being able to receive as good as one gives, is an essential skill to making a good moderator.

This is not simply about the logo, although the logo is an excellent symbol and symptom of a problem that has existed for a long time; someone making a statement or suggestion that is largely supported by the userbase but disliked by the management, and a knee-jerk "How Dare They..." indignant or intimidating attack/retrenchment ensues.

I don't have anything personal against Ainwein, and I think he's a very bright and often insightful young man, but he possesses most of the same character flaws to the same or greater degree than Sanchek does and thus is poorly equipped to take on the job of assistant poop-scraper, as yesterday's tempest in a teacup would indicate. And as for Malse, while I like him as well, it does smack of a 'circling the wagons' type action. I don't particularly want the job myself, but why not try someone with a fundamentally different character, say one of the older guys here like Bylimet? Or better yet, just try taking a deep breath, repeat the words 'it's not all about me', and try engaging in a constructive dialogue with the membership, and let things take their course?

I think a hell of a lot of overreaction has gone on here and don't understand what the big deal is about the logo, the poopy-head calling or why the inevitable and eventual demise of the board is germane to anything, particularly butt-hurt threats from multiple parties to take one's ball and go home. What is this, second grade?

Anyway, I'm late for work, but I'd just like to ask everyone to take a deep breath and read the more constructive posts in this thread. Clearly, a bunch of us would like to see the board continue, and enough of us would like to see a logo put back up on the board as to make this a reasonable suggestion. So how about it, and then we can get back to our regularly-scheduled grievance-nurturing and stone-throwing? :)

Regards,
Nydia

'You actually said: "This is exciting! It's like a revolution!"'

- Who said that? You're the one that called it 'Viva La Revolución!!!', not me, boy.
But then the inability to follow your own line of argument is perfectly in keeping with your volatile and embarassing, spineless behaviour the past 48 hours.

As always, I agree completely with Nydia. I don't care if people wish to accuse me, or us, of melodramatics. The logo means something.

Preventing it from going up, even after this, would also in itself mean something - something very grave, IMO. It would be a bold statement by the moderators.

So I won't continue the flame-fest. I'll just ask that the logo be discussed, and then the moderators do something about it. I'll take one on the nose and bow out of the argument first, if it gets the logo-ball rolling.

People, ie Ainwein, Sanchek... would do well to listen to Nydia. Ain't no wiser words said.

So that's shtumpt from me now, as long as the logo is considered by Sanchek.

Preventing it from going up, even after this, would also in itself mean something - something very grave, IMO. It would be a bold statement by the moderators.


No one ever said no to the logo. This whole circus was predicated off a tangential comment. If you want a logo, I would highly encourage you to find a non-copyrighted work.

No one ever said no to the logo. This whole circus was predicated off a tangential comment. If you want a logo, I would highly encourage you to find a non-copyrighted work.

Oh Really?

NO LOGO EVER, EVER!!!!!!!

OMFG YOU DICK LICKING LIMEY FAG...NO LOGO

Of course the quotes are purely speculation but they might have thought that...if only for a second or two.

Legos?

If people are posting based on what people might have thought, I think we can just as easily moderate on what people might have said!


I don't have anything personal against Ainwein, and I think he's a very bright and often insightful young man, but he possesses most of the same character flaws to the same or greater degree than Sanchek does and thus is poorly equipped to take on the job of assistant poop-scraper, as yesterday's tempest in a teacup would indicate. And as for Malse, while I like him as well, it does smack of a 'circling the wagons' type action. I don't particularly want the job myself, but why not try someone with a fundamentally different character, say one of the older guys here like Bylimet? Or better yet, just try taking a deep breath, repeat the words 'it's not all about me', and try engaging in a constructive dialogue with the membership, and let things take their course?

Nobody who has any pretense of being remotely impartial wants the job. Circling the wagons around what? The fearsum Injuns are on the inside of the circle already.

The request for a logo was met with this response:

'I wouldn't bother with a logo.

Without moderation, this place quickly devolved into a cesspool of negativity. I thought it might improve after the election, but it hasn't at all. I have no intention of running a microcosm of this: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19/ and civil debate is apparently too much to ask of the polarized parties here.

So, if the situation doesn't improve soon I'll probably shut the thing down soon (Ryb willing).'

- Since then, the request for a logo has been constantly repeated, to no avail. What was not said, ie yes a logo is fine, ideas, comments, etc, was just as indicative as what was said.

We're not stupid. Don't treat us as such, even though Sanchek's 'prove to me why I should not shut the forum down' goes a long way in doing so.

This is not your finest time, moderators.

And you wonder why Ainwein flipped out. Yes, this is stupid, yes, you are acting that way. "I wouldn't bother" is not "you may not, GTFO!"

Maybe I missed somewhere in the tantrum, but has anyone even posted a real candidate for a logo anywhere? You're just making shit up now (coordinated strategy with rover?)

Nobody who has any pretense of being remotely impartial wants the job. Circling the wagons around what? The fearsum Injuns are on the inside of the circle already.


The analogy holds, but perhaps I should have used the fall of Berlin instead ;). What I see *today* is the mods painting their faces, lighting the wagons on fire, and making cariacacatures (extra 'ca' accidental, but I think I'll leave it in ;) ) of themselves, attempting to make a joke of the board and its contributors, in a ploy to negate and trivialize the board, the argument, and the responsibility being discussed. That, by the way, would happen to be responding to user suggestions/concerns in a civilized and even-handed fashion and moderating, when necessary, with something other than an ego-driven brickbat. This is not to say that I don't appreciate all the work and periods of very patient moderation (and at a job he did not particularly love at that), from Sanchek, but good grief, every now and then for some reason something someone says, does, doesn't do, or sand in the panties sets off a left-field and totally out of proportion reaction which always seems to trigger abuse of power, and all I can do is go WTF?

Make monkeys of yourselves if you wish, but as Halo said, it's not your finest hour. How about we all just engage as adults instead? Deliberately making a mockery of, and then commenting that you can see who voted how on the confidence vote (itself perhaps a bit of hyperbole, but given how Halo was treated immediately prior, not totally unreasonable), isn't helping loads with the credibility issue.

Sincerely,
Nydia

(coordinated strategy with rover?)

A well coordinated trans atlantic partnership in planning for years designed to make Ainwein flip out, while all the time everyone thought our target was Sanchek...MWUHAHAHAHA

In other words, instead of attemting to dismiss our complaints by the intricate detail of never actually, specifically saying 'no' to a logo - why don't you do your job, hop over to the logo thread, and start doing something with the community's suggestions? There have been 14 people in support of it now.

I may have played up to the White Knight, or Revolutionary, image, but it would seem that such action and drama over the past few days was necessary. We cannot have moderators arguing against positive, popular community suggestions; banning someone for something and not someone else for the same thing; and most importantly, threatening to shut the community down.

That just cannot pass without resistance and check. You may poke fun at this poll, but I think most people are now aware of the way the majority feel. Sanchek can ignore it at his will, but he cannot escape the fact that we, as a collective, are unhappy with him.

Finally, and most importantly, the popular backlash against his suggestion of ending this community has shown that, on the contrary to his suggestions, there remains at the heart of this forum a community, bound by more than EverQuest. Ainwein may like to argue that it doesn't mean anything, Sanchek may try and suggest it's not enough - but fuck me, I think we've proven you guys wrong.

This logo means a lot. Please, do your job. Contribute in a positive manner to helping us get it up and going. We've shown you we want it.

For the love of god - respond positively.

'I wouldn't bother with a logo.

Without moderation, this place quickly devolved into a cesspool of negativity. I thought it might improve after the election, but it hasn't at all. I have no intention of running a microcosm of this: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19/ and civil debate is apparently too much to ask of the polarized parties here.

So, if the situation doesn't improve soon I'll probably shut the thing down soon (Ryb willing).'


Yes, this is stupid, yes, you are acting that way. "I wouldn't bother" is not "you may not, GTFO!"


At the risk of making everyone puke, let me break this down for you. Halo reacted (emotionally) to Sanchek's negative response because it was a lot more emotionally loaded than "I wouldn't bother" - it was bitter and toxic, a condemnation of the board and everyone on it and (I believe) a rash and somewhat unjustified one. Halo's been around a long time and has a lot invested in the company and collegiality he maintains here, as do I and others. Sure, there's been a lot of poo-throwing on the board lately. Most of it hasn't gotten to the really ugly personal stage, but as Jedd pointed out, he's been called a terrorist or worse, reviled for his opinions, and even banned, and yet he finds the exchange here worth coming back for. Most of us here manage to ultimately act like grownups, take our lumps, admit when we flew off the handle, and self-police, and I don't think we've gotten anywhere near the stage where we need to just hose down the pigpen.

What Sanchek did, in a way, was *worse* than saying 'you may not, GTFO!' It was a unilateral vote of no confidence on the entire board (not stated as merely an opinion, but a threat, the "I'm going to take *all* your marbles and go home"), a reaction that seems a bit out of proportion given the nature of the request and one which many, including Halo, might take umbrage at.
If he'd *just* said that he didn't see the point, because in his opinion things had gotten very toxic and negative, that might have opened things up to civilized discussion, but he pushed the 'I have the power and don't you forget it' button (granted, in a weary, rather than bombastic, fashion, but which was equally negative), which set folks off.

Sincerely,
Nydia

I may have played up to the White Knight, or Revolutionary, image, but it would seem that such action and drama over the past few days was necessary.

The irony here is that all you've accomplished so far is to reinstate the stricter moderation stance that you previously lobbied against. Wouldn't it have been easier to just ask?

Make monkeys of yourselves if you wish, but as Halo said, it's not your finest hour. How about we all just engage as adults instead? Deliberately making a mockery of, and then commenting that you can see who voted how on the confidence vote (itself perhaps a bit of hyperbole, but given how Halo was treated immediately prior, not totally unreasonable), isn't helping loads with the credibility issue.


I'll happily engage anyone who acts like an adult as one. Given I've been a moderator for about 24 hours now, that list is currently exclusive of nearly every poster in the three threads in question, not fucking one of which contains any proposed, legally usable logo

You've currently got 50 pages of monkeys gibbering about their e-rights and e-revolutions and zero actual constructive activity. You'll pardon me if I find your high horse to look more like a child's rocking horse. Sure we can mock the confidence vote, it a) doesn't matter, b) isn't representative, and c) has no recourse to solve anything even if (a) and (b) weren't true. I can post a poll that I've lost confidence in Halo's ability to brush his teeth, but all it would do it make me look as petulant as he and Grey do.

I don't give a shit whose dog Sanchek sodomized. If it was solely up to me all these threads would have been locked and removed days ago until somebody actually HAD a logo that could then not be posted by the neonazi skinhead former lizard, because right now not only are you all embarrassing yourselves in public, you're doing it for nothing.

Sanchek are you intentionally not responding to Nydia's well thought out, well written, posts? They raise very valid points that could help with the situation, cause from my side of the fence, you look like the tool, not Halo.

You've currently got 50 pages of monkeys gibbering about their e-rights and e-revolutions and zero actual constructive activity.

Not to nitpick there boss but i posted atleast once on a visual concept of the logo. LEts not forget it was San's comments that turned it from good idea into monkeys gibbering.

As far as comments toward me, i shrug at this point, i have excepted the fact you will forever look down your nose at me from your high horse you constantly reside from.

I have a lot of things already occupying rungs on my hierarchy of procrastination this week (I'm moving, *and* it's drop week, *and* it's evaluations week here at work), but I can see about scaring up a logo - but weren't a couple of images already posted someplace? I remember a comment about the butch-looking gal with the double-Ds, surely we could get a legally usable form of that or the fire elemental gal to put up for vote to get the ball rolling?

Regards,
Nydia

The old fire elemental was taken down, iirc, because it was a copyright violation from WotC. Someone posted some horrid EQ screenshot, but I don't recall anyone saying they wanted that, much less cleaned it up enough to fit the forum header.

And yes, Grey, I will consider you barely literate for as long as you continue to post like it. You still get to use the forum though.

The copyright violation is kinda a silly and weak reason. Sanchek has had plenty images on his for-profit site which would have copyright issues, yet doesn't seem to care ... so why would there be an issue over a not-for-profit site which couldn't get sued or anything (would cost more to even try than they'd recoup)?

That being said, someone could easily do better. Maybe I'll take a stab at it later this week if business slows down.

I'm not the one that removed the old one. Not that it would look good at all here anyway.

Send me an email about the images you're talking about on my other sites.

And yes, Grey, I will consider you barely literate for as long as you continue to post like it. You still get to use the forum though.

Not sure i get what you mean, which maybe exactly what you're trying to say. If its typos and poor grammer, i suck at writing always have was in high end math and science and damn near remedial english, i dont try and hide that.

Though i am glad i get your permission to still use the forums.

Jeeeesus Christ almighty! I should poke my nose into the General Discussion section more often.

All I have to say is that you all are pumping things ***way*** out of proportion here. Presumably after all these years we are all adults and a little civility and reasoned discussion should not be beyond us.

Yes, some posters loathe other ones. Welcome to the internet.

The best place to start with moderation is with ourselves.

'nuff said.

Sanchek are you intentionally not responding to Nydia's well thought out, well written, posts? They raise very valid points that could help with the situation, cause from my side of the fence, you look like the tool, not Halo.

He doesn't need to, with Malse now taking over the task of shitting on the community, as his post above yours demonstrates.

People have tried to bring down the tone of conversation to be somewhat constructive and then Malse does his San/'weinie impression and says we are all gibbering monkeys, tossing in another in the list of insults to the community by the moderators.

This grows tiring. Fuck you, malse.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t257/evanluerding/tinfoil.gif

This has long passed the point of any utility, locking the thread. Apologies to Nydia and Kelraz, I'll see if I can move your posts out to a different thread free of people off their meds.