I'm not sure how much of this (http://www.escapefromamerica.com/2010/06/escape-from-america-the-grim-truth/) article I believe (some of it seems fairly sensationalist to me), but I'm wondering what you all made of it.

I've usually been one to posit the existence of debt slavery as a real concept in the US system. You buy a house, insurance, everything else and you get sucked into the system without any real means of breaking out again unless there's a lucky break somewhere along your life.

The writer seems pretty wide-reaching in his condemnation of the US system (economy in general, social classes, government, etc). Wouldn't what he suggests (leaving entirely) lead to something similar to what happened when the Roman Empire split though? Wouldn't that simply exasperate the issues he describes when all of the hypothetical intellectual people move out of the country?

Take what he says about the Roman Empire with a pinch of salt, believe me!

Debt slavery is absolutely real. You cannot possibly hold a dollar in your hand without it having been created through debt. As long as the debt is owed in dollars, it is mathematically impossible for us to ever cure our debt to the Fed without mass default.

I don't necessarily see the direct parallels with the Roman Empire though.

I agree with Sanchek! It's a form of control now.... I can't help but feel that the dollar in my hand is only worth what someone in a dark closed room decides it's worth.....

Yeah, that whole Rome thing was so ill informed as to not even be wrong.

But don't think the more mobile of the American intellectual class does not have their eye on the horizon. Those of us with language fluency and transferable skills are well aware of the immigration requirements of Canada, Germany, Sweden, et al. Most of them even have a point-system we're quite high on.

It's harder for people with established families to leave, but I would not be surprised at all to see a surge in US graduates with real degrees (science, engineering, medicine) etc to getting jobs abroad.

Costa Rica

I was mainly going off of what I remember from my history class that covered the Roman Empire in some detail (obviously not enough). Care to enlighten me, Malse + Halo? I remember my professor mentioning that part of the problem with the Western Roman Empire was that many of the intellectuals went East (eventually becoming the Byzantines I think?), and then the lack of communication put them behind in the technology development race.

As a recent college grad, I've thought about pulling up my stakes, since realistically I have no long-lasting ties (minus friendships obviously) in this country that are keeping me here. Any advice on what countries to look into? I had thought about Great Britain and Canada as possible options.

Switzerland is nice

Parts of Italy are even paying highly qualified people to move there and have kids :) Germany, the netherlands and the Uk also fast track what amounts to white non-Muslims, and Australia has a strong citizenship path for educated English speakers as well.

All those places provide healthcare too!

Dear Mdana:

The UK's point system for fast-track is heavily weighted towards education; a PhD is more or less an automatic shoe-in, while a Masters' degree requires additional 'help' in the form of proven income/savings from a current job (points awarded scale with your current income as a measure of 'earnings potential'). However, additional points are gained if you are under 31 years of age. English fluency by way of a standard test also factors into the point system.

Canada's point system is somewhat different; the government maintains a list of 'highly desired professions' (not all of which require a degree, some are trade specialties in short supply), and Canada also weights having family already resident in the country or a documented job offer heavily in the application. Fluency in English or French (both being preferred) is also given points, of course.

There are numerous emigration web pages set up where you can research the rubrics used by the different EU/UK/Commonwealth countries (just make sure your noscipt/adblockers are cranked up :) ), or you can check the official government web pages as well. Considering that you're young, degreed, and not tied down, it'd be well worth considering, if for the experience and the perspective it would bring on whether you wish to make a permanent move.

Depending on your specialty it might be well worth it to you to look into companies who hire for overseas contract work (most often available in engineering and hard science fields, but also doable in the medical profession and even in teaching), or even the via US State Dept or USAJOBS (the federal employment website, which frequently advertises overseas posts).

Even though I'm over 45 now and saddled with my own home and an artist ;) (and 50 is generally considered the 'third rail' here in the US, but not so much overseas as far as career/job changes go) there's thankfully no *negative* rating given to age in most of the EU/Commonwealth countries' rating system, and I've been paying down my own debt (got rid of 11,000 in credit card debt over the last two years :) ) and keeping my eyes open for opportunities overseas and my C.V. updated. The teaching field is widely acknowledged to be in a state of collapse in the US (even at the state college level, as the states can no longer afford to pay for it even as they pressure us to accommodate more, and more ill-prepared, students), and because the government keeps trying to tighten the screws on assessment (and 'productive grade rates') at the expense of content until it ends up holding nothing at all - and so I'm considering either going back into industry or looking for a lecturing job in a less counterproductive environment.

A good friend of mine, frustrated with both teaching and the state of healthcare in the US, now helps run a school in Chiang Mai, Thailand, certifying nurses in English so that they can work in Australia and New Zealand and is in his seventh year there and says he'll never come back; another friend of mine (and classmate of my mother's, now 68 years old) currently teaches in the Marshall Islands and has worked everywhere from the PRC to Egypt - and didn't begin doing that until she was in her mid-50s and became fed up with what passed for education in Florida.

As far as your original post and question goes, yes, I do think that the US will suffer some 'brain drain' over the next couple of decades much as India did in the past and Mexico, much of South America, and all of the Third World does currently, although I suppose what bothers me the most about that is how that sad state of affairs was predicated by a largely preventable 'money drain' that is the result of the looting and dismantling of our own economy for the sake of greed and tax free filing-cabinet-drawer offices in the Bahamas. I also think that the actual brain drain will not be huge in that the myth of America, not to mention the majority of people's innate loyalty to their country of birth, will keep a lot of the educated folks here much as it does in South America even in the face of heavy corruption, income disparity, etc. I see us becoming much more 'Second World' than third world in that respect.

You're young, currently not a debt slave, and never again will your choices be limited largely by your own imagination - how's that for a platitude :). You didn't mention your field of study/expertise but for most degreed professions there exists agencies that specialize in placing folks in that field overseas, or if you want to go to graduate school in the UK or elsewhere, all most of the EU/Commonwealth countries require (beyond an acceptance letter, not so difficult to obtain as you might think, and the quality of education is excellent and you won't have to go into obscene debt to afford it) is that you have enough savings to cover 3-6 months living expenses there.

Regards,
Nydia

I was mainly going off of what I remember from my history class that covered the Roman Empire in some detail (obviously not enough). Care to enlighten me, Malse + Halo? I remember my professor mentioning that part of the problem with the Western Roman Empire was that many of the intellectuals went East (eventually becoming the Byzantines I think?), and then the lack of communication put them behind in the technology development race.



Well, the fall of the Roman empire famously filledlarge set of books (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_History_of_the_Decline_and_Fall_of_the_Roman_E mpire), however in massive redux the rulers of Rome gradually became unable to govern due to a series of incompetence and unlucky emperors, which resulted in many of the outlying provinces falling out of the influence of the empire during the same general period as a massive Western migration and horde of Huns.

Rome itself was never really a center of learning, Byzantium and Alexandria in particular were more significant cities of academics and scholarly exchange due to their better location for transit across the eastern Mediterranean, which was essentially the center of the world at the time. That's not to say you didn't have educated people in Rome, but it did not parallel the recent US in that people came from all over the world to Rome for an education nor was it particularly technologically advanced compared to contemporary civilized states; Rome did not fall apart because no one knew how to maintain the aqueducts anymore, it was more of a failure of bureaucracy.

The forefront of human knowledge did largely abandon the Italian peninsula and western Europe in general as Rome declined, but it wasn't a major contribution so much as effect of the movement of major trade and military dominance back towards the east.

Nydia, I'm actually a Computer Science major. I actually have a pretty nice job at a defense contractor in Moorestown at the moment. I'm trying to pile away as much money as I can for at least a couple of years to build up a nice buffer. I tend to live pretty modestly, so I don't think I'll really have problems.