ttp://www.reuters.co.uk/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=654581 (http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=654581)

Such a damn fucking shame :/

The report, quoted in Saturday's Guardian, said U.S. and Polish military vehicles had crushed 2,600-year-old pavements in the city, a cradle of civilisation and home to one of the seven wonders of the ancient world. Archaeological fragments were used to fill sand bags, it added.

How fucked up can you get?

Hope those sand bags stopped a bullet on its way to kill our brothers and sisters.

History is just that......" H i s t o r y"

Right, the next time I'm in America, I'll wrap myself in the Declaration of Independence when I get cold.
Or better yet, chip off pieces of the Statue of Liberty for a "I woz 'ere" token.

History is not something to be wrecked, especially intentionally, to some it's sacred, to others it's something worth defending, like those liberties of freedom and justice you folks deem worthy enough to invade over.

Ancient city of Babylon is indeed sacred, the craddle of civilization, and to see troops chip off parts of the thousands of year old structures to fill SAND BAGS in is truly disgusting.

If this is indeed true, i'm completely in agreeance with Halo right here. This isn't something we can fix, once this is destroyed, its gone forever. Think how much better society would be off today if the Library of Alexandria hadn't burnt down.

Negative rep point hit!
"Shame on you, mate. History is the story of our lives, but also it's pure ignorance and a reason why you'll never win hearts and minds. - Halo"

HAHAHAHAHAA.

Didn't realize I was trying to win the hearts of Ayonae Roe message board. Get back to winning the hearts and minds of internet message boards..although something tells me you will only win the heart that pumps in your right hand there rosey.

Ibudin

Incase I had actually put too much confidence in your intelligence, I meant the so called "hearts and minds" campaign bullshit that your forces decided to commit to, in order to show the occupied people that you were nice occupiers.

But then, that was before the sexual abuse in the prison, and before vandalizing ancient historical sites.

But hey, you're definately winning the peace!
Oh, wait, no. No, you're not.

What was it you were winning again?

"This is tantamount to establishing a military camp around the Great Pyramid in Egypt or around Stonehenge in Britain,"

That explains it quite well. I'll be amazed if we actually see anything about this in the mainstream US news though.

And please ignore Ibudin, anyone with a clue can tell he's a fool.

Such a damn fucking shame :/


Sums it up pretty good...
Fucking idiots is also appropriate I think...

Nothing lasts forever. *shrug*

That could go down in history as the worst opinion ever.

Nothing lasts forever. *shrug*

/boggle

Nothing lasts forever. *shrug*
even cold november rain

That's a shame and truely unfortunate. War is hell.

even cold november rain

heaven beside you?

Ya know, you aren't the only one trimlock.

Like it or not, it's eventually going to be little more then a pile of rubble and all the blubbering vagina's around the world will be unable to form a protective wall to preserve the dust, despite their best efforts to get the UN to set sanctions against the wind for eroding such a priceless artifcat of our past.

Do I applaud the acts of the US Military? Hardly. But I'm not so sure this is the tragedy you're making it out to be.

I'm sure someone is going to try to point out "But you're denying future generations the priveledge of getting to see such wonderful marvels!" Let's put it this way, on a long enough time span, plenty of people are going to get fucked out of seeing this stuff. So unless you want to erect a glass bubble over everything that may have some significant historic value 15,000 years from now, I suggest you put that energy into something more constructive and start building your own pyramid for intellectual pussies to bitch about when the military of the future bounces tachyon bombs off them or some stupid shit.

Brought to you by The American, a creature without a sense of culture or heritage!
Sponsored by the Ignorant.
In partnership with the Dumbfucks.

A.K.A. Zehn.

History is just that - history.

Do I see a need to purposely destroy an artifact? No.

Do I get worked up if it does happens? Depends on the situation.

Look ahead, not behind.

I was far more upset when the Taliban went around blowing up 4000 year old Buhdist statue's because it represented the infidels God.

Ahh, but you see, the Taliban aren't Americans, so that doesn't outrage Halo.

The thing is, we EXPECT those kind of actions from Talibans. Not Americans.

I'm sure someone is going to try to point out "But you're denying future generations the priveledge of getting to see such wonderful marvels!" Let's put it this way, on a long enough time span, plenty of people are going to get fucked out of seeing this stuff. So unless you want to erect a glass bubble over everything that may have some significant historic value 15,000 years from now, I suggest you put that energy into something more constructive and start building your own pyramid for intellectual pussies to bitch about when the military of the future bounces tachyon bombs off them or some stupid shit.

So you feel the same about any american historical monument, correct? White House, Washington Memorial, etc? No reason in protecting those too. Might as well tear down the white house and just put the president and our goverment in a nice fort, would be safer, and can't think of a reason not to once you take away history...

There are always going to be ignorant people that don't appreciate history. And its not a terrible surprise that our friend Zehn is part of that group.

Here the big surprise for you Disco..nice negative hit you gave me as well moron.

If Halo and his brothers need to come to the US and liberate the American people he has my permission to blow up the Statute of Liberty if it makes strategic sense and will keep his army/men safe. We are only seeing "1" news article on this and nothing else. I am sure our soldiers lifes come first over what fucking ancient artifacts are in the area at the time. If the spot picked made strategic sense and the base had to be made where it was at the time to save American lives..then your the idot.

They just didnt pull up and go..Oh lookie here 5,000 year old ruins..lets fucking ruin it...oh wait simple minded people like your self probably believe that though.

The white house is just that, a building. You're aware the original was burned down, and since then it's undergone several renovations? Things and time change, objects pass away and fade into memory and memories are forgotten. Unless I'm mistaken, there's very little left we can gain from Babylon. Everything is catalogued, photographed and probably every inch is in some way digitally scanned. The only value it still holds is sentimental, and it's value is no greater then that little drive-through shop that closed a few years ago on the corner of 17th and Washington where my dad used to stop and get milk and pretzl sticks for my brothers and I on the way home from school.

Should I be pissed at the owner for selling the buildling to econo print? That was a valuable piece of my history and memories cherished by my brothers and I.

Or should I dig the sand out of my vagina and realize that I'll have those memories, shit happens, times change and in 50-100 years I'll be dead and it won't fucking matter anyways?

This is nothing like the burning of the library or desecration of ancient burial chambers simply because if we knock over a wall or crush a road, we're more likely to uncover new secrets then bury old ones.

No matter how much you want to fight it, or wail against it, you cannot stop the march of time. I'm fairly confident that in 23,000 years, nobody will give a fuck that the US military did a bunch of stupid shit. They'll be too busy flirting with the girl behind the counter at Denny's.

The pyramids will be nubs barely sticking out of the sands of the desert, stonehendge will be little more then a pile of rubble, ghettysburgh will be a starbucks, The Western Front will be a line of clothing, and the thousands who died in the tsunami will be a statistic in a database that nobody has looked at in over 20,000 years.

Ignorant? You're the one who seems to think we can preserve all our history forever.

Welcome to the Human race.

'Welcome to the Human race.'

- "Welcome to the American Race.
Not giving a shit since 1776."

That rhymed.

Halo, don't be such a twat. Just cause Zhen thinks that way , doesn't mean all Americans do.

Zhen, wether you appreciate the importance of history or not(this is the problem of the "disposable" world we live in), that stuff is extremely important to the people who live there. They have a right to be pissed. Just because you don't think history isn't important, doesn't mean you you shouldn't respecrt other peoples belief in the importance of maintaining their history and heritage. Get over yourself.

There are good points made on both sides in this thread.

However, I'm sure we didn't decide to set-up there solely because it was a site of ancient history that we could destroy for fun. And if I read the article correctly, we weren't the only ones there.. apparently the Poles were/are, too.

But at the same time it is a shame that any damage occurred at such a historic place. Oh well.

then your the idot.

ouch :(

Haha, beat me to it. Bastard.

THAT'S MY THING!!

If thats all you got...bite me!

Ibudin

Of course its, then you're the idiot. If you are going to call someone an idiot, at least use proper grammar/spelling. If you say, "your the idiot," you make yourself look like an idiot. Say whatever you want about me criticizing someone's spelling, but if he/she can't use the proper you're/your, they shouldn't call anyone else an idiot.

You're the one who seems to think we can preserve all our history forever.

Huh, well thats funny. Where did I say that?

The White house was a bad example, I knew that when I wrote it. I'll use a good quote, slightly edited. You might recognize it. And it'll actually make sense this time!

"I don't care enough about your opinion to do anything but give bad examples"

You seem to be dead sure that I only consider history important due to tradition and sentimental values and that shit. Your 'I know everything and am always right' act has gotten stale lately, you need to try harder and keep it fresh and entertaining.

My point stands. The source doens't matter, eventually Babylon, in fact all artifacts we consider beautiful and mysterious, will be no more then rubble.

The fact of the matter is you're ascribing importance to objects that are otherwise just the last vestiges of a dead culture. What about the house that Einstein lived in? That has more relative 'symbolic' importance to our lives then the walls of Babylon, but if the US MIlitary needed to flatten it to save a few men's lives, I wouldn't blink. Similarily, thousands of years of wind and erosian have been wailing away and diminishing the glory of Babylon, yet up until this point, i've seen not a -single- fucking, "Donate to the preserve Babylon foundation" thread started by any of you.

So much for your fucking indignation. Aparently you only care about people and places when it can make you look compassionate and/or artistic. This coming summer I -garuntee- there will be old people in Chicago who die from the heat because they can't afford air conditioning. How much have -you- donated to help them? Did you go and buy a new couch that you didn't really need? Because that couch could have fed children al over the world who are starving. You could have donated it to helping keep the Manitwooc Torch lit, or to preserving a Picasso.

If someone went around torching ancient artifacts would I say stop him? Yeah sure. But if I had to choose between a several thousand year old pile of stones or the life of some guy who just wants to put enough scratch together to put his kid through college....it's not that hard of a choice.

Both are going to be long gone in 20,000 years. Nobody is going to give a shit about either. But right here and now, I don't think the stones are going to give a shit if I say, "Sorry bub, but you gotta get knocked over for this guy."

Aparently you only care about people and places when it can make you look compassionate and/or artistic.

What in the hell are you talking about?

I think the real question we should be asking here is what moron made the desicion to establish a defensive position at a known archealogical site?
60 years ago during WW2 when our tropps didnt have the advantage of advanced radar systems, orbital observations, night vision etc. etc. i could see why a group of soldiers on the outer edge of a combat front would look at ruins as a possible tactical advantage.
I cant for the life of me see a reason why we needed to be at this ruin site. we have had and still have from a pure military standpoint complete and absolute control in Iraq. we didnt rely so heavily on air support because our ground troops sucked, it was because Iraq did not and never had much in the way of an airforce or air defence. remember Sadaam's army was built to fight iranian's and other regional foe's not the U.S. or any modern western army.
At the very least i would have thought someone in command would have at least told them not to park the tank's on ancient pavement. you dont have to work for the British Museum to tell the differance between modern pavement and some "looks pretty fucking old to me Sarge" paving stones.

Just a thought, why does some army need to make bags full of ruins, when they are fighting in a huuuuuuge desert? :confused:

On the eve of Invasion, an educated British general put it well in to words, in his speech to the King's Own: "This is the Garden of Eden, the Craddle of Civilization, the remnants of Babylonia. Tred lightly boys!"

It's our respect for culture and heritage that make us human, you cretin.
I'd like to see your face if we burnt every bible to exist and exclaim that the it's "history".

You'd piss yourself two ways from Sunday, I bet.

exist and exclaim that the it's "history".

Nice sentence structure Halo!

Yes, but in the same sentence I wasn't proclaiming myself Einstein, was I, Lenny?

Sure looked like it to me! Cretin?


cretin
n : a person of subnormal intelligence [syn: idiot, imbecile, moron, changeling, half-wit, retard]



Fuck off with your double standards. Don't even think about hitting that reply button with out proof reading your posts from now on.

Fuck! Touche!

Pointing out grammatical errors, the last bastion of one who has lost all hope of winning an argument.

Nice one Disc. Too bad Halo would have had to present an argument. So far all he's done is, "Omg u don't appriiate history? lol man it's our PAST!!! We gotta preserve the PAST!! u fuckin' bush lovin MORONS. NIN forever."

But hey, if you really care that much about roads, go lay down over on Jackson St. They're going to tear up a section and resurface it or some shit. Who knows, in 4000 years some hippy is going to bitch when the Korean military digs it up to make a cafe to fit 30 more teenagers in so they can hit max level and begin farming for ****** in Lineage 147.

Nice one Disc. Too bad Halo would have had to present an argument. So far all he's done is, "Omg u don't appriiate history? lol man it's our PAST!!! We gotta preserve the PAST!! u fuckin' bush lovin MORONS. NIN forever."
Yours being "It's only stone, *shrug*".
We have one overgeneralizing eurotrash and one oversimplifying usmonger, holy poop show me da pop corn!

I wasn't gonna say anything, well, because I commit my fair share of typos, but...

If Halo and his brothers need to come to the US and liberate the American people he has my permission to blow up the Statute of Liberty if it makes strategic sense and will keep his army/men safe. We are only seeing "1" news article on this and nothing else. I am sure our soldiers lifes come first over what fucking ancient artifacts are in the area at the time. If the spot picked made strategic sense and the base had to be made where it was at the time to save American lives..then your the idot.

If you actually took the time to read all the threads, you would see the chronological order of what took place. I never would pick on someone for a silly spelling/grammatical error but others find it's their only hope of making them selves look good. Fact of the matter is I can spell good enough to keep my self employed, own a home (nice one for that matter), a vacation property, great health, and a basically happy life.

Most of my messages are typed on production machines with 14" monitors covered in dust and oil with sticky fucking key boards. If you really think I can't spell ...IDIOT..well sir I don't know what to tell you. Sure I use your when I should be using you're..but I really don't give a fuck.

Good luck on that English major job! Think you will teach my children someday and for that I'll be grateful. Till then I'll enjoy making a shit load of money and not being able to spell IDIOT or use the proper your,there,here, where or what ever the hell it maybe:)


Ibudin

I guess there is that common internet forums' behavior that states "Thou shall not call someone else an eediot if thou can't spell it right". Or something.

I almost thought you made it on purpose (2 typos for 3 words), but apparently it's your keyboard's fault. You probably know how to type, but yet you didn't take the 2 seconds to verify you did it well. I guess that you don't need to type anything for your "high income" job, I don't think your boss take the "well I know how to type all those words, I just don't give a fuck" excuse.

Oh and maybe you should re invest some of that money you make with a new screen and a new keyboard? That's a shame your company doesn't take care of their employees, even if they apparently bring them alot of money.

Far enough for now into uninteresting subjects, double derails woo woo!!

I guess there is that common internet forums' behavior that states "Thou shall not call someone else an eediot if thou can't spell it right". Or something.




Looks like we have an incomplete sentence issue here. Call in the grammar police for we have a serious violation.

My company takes care of it's employee's very well.
www.qg.com (http://www.qg.com)

Fact of the matter is you should see some of my "boss's" typed messages. They usually consist of lots of "!!!!!" and many "......" along with CAPS FOR THE ENTIRE MESSAGE.

It simply doesn't matter. Do you get it yet? See your college/highschool professor might correct your papers and tell you its important but after you have been in the "WORKING" world things change. Some people have really good written communication skills but lack common sense. Which is the case on this forum. /points at you.

Ibudin

since we're derailing I'm going to comment.

Ibudin, you speak truth!!!!!! my boss is the same way and I especially love it when my director sends out a dept wide email w/o first having his secretary proof read it....hahahaha good stuff and missing like every 3rd word. Sucker makes 3x what I make and I think I do pretty well. I have yet to encounter anyone in my line of work who feels the need to police someone's grammar.

....."ahh sir you incorrectly used a
possessive pronoun, you might want to change that"...... "i before e, except after t" .....


If anything I'm rubbing off on my co-workers with all my =\ =D =P and .... hahaha I have a special email I send when someone asks me what the equals P means.

Get over yourself people, I don't care how excellent at grammar policing you think you are I bet you have screwed up yourself at one point. Unless......OMG you're a freaking editor or English teacher and therefore your dick is so small you have to point out everyone's mistakes to feel some sense of........I R BETTER THAN U !!! GACK! :x

/derail and rant off

Note my !!!! and ..... I love them!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm a member of "the working world," and despite protests to the contrary, spelling, grammar and composition are all important aspects of effective communication in a business environment.

Emails full of mistakes, composed of all caps, written for the wrong audience - they're all examples of ineffective communication.

I'm nowhere near a perfect speller. I don't have perfect grammer. I even write in a style that's much too conversational, full of parenthetical phrases, hypens and elipses, but I know the difference between less and fewer, between further and farther, and between an email people can read and understand and one filled with RAGING CAPITAL LETTERS AND EXCLAMATION POINTS!!!!

Listen to your college professors; for once, they're right.

Sounds like you live in the same world I do Fildien.

Ibudin

haha ok here is a "real world" example of daily emails I get here where I work. I just got this one from a DBA regarding one of his scripts for some backups I'm trying to implement.


Hi <name> and <name>,



I was reviewing the script testing from Tuesday in more detail, and I found some problem. I have corrected these problem and would like to test it again.



BUT, before we test again, I would to code the checks for RETURNCODE error.



I can think of a way to verify that all return code are correct, but I would like to discuss this with you when you have a minute. (to see if I am on the right track!)



Thanks, <name>


Ok grammar police, who can tell us what's wrong? This person makes between 65-90k a year and they can't draft an email w/o mistakes OMG, let's tie them up and force them write their ABCs.

Oh yeah and he's born and bred Pennsylvanian not foreign!

AHH ha here is another one! This guy is the OPS manager and usually very good at his emails and grammar, gosh I guess even perfect people can make mistakes. Who knew! Ok I'm done, and in case you're wondering why I am flustered about this, it's not b/c I get criticized over my spelling and grammar it's b/c I am a southerner living in Yankeeville USA and my accent is a constant thing of attraction to people here. I equate it to other people feeling the need to police someone's grammar on a gaming message board :D


Hi,

I'd like to we determine next steps for the integration of Manual dependancies and interaction with the CA Workload and Console. Possibly an agenda item for CA Workload and Event meeting.

I'm providing last e-mail information and additional text based on discussion.

Here is my understanding of where we stand.

John

While I understand that saying anything in this thread is utterly pointless as it's mostly a values judgment, I'll try to explain my position anyway.

Saying that something is old, and therefore not of value is a sad opinion in my mind. True Babylon does very little for me way over here in the middle of the bible necklace of the United States that doesn't mean it's without value at all. A logical comparison to me would be say, Vhex's car in a parking spot at a store of some sort. This car has no meaning to me, in fact it's impeding my process to get to where I'm going. I should think to myself "hey, this isn't my car, it serves no purpose to me. Screw it, I should move it, destroy it, or do something to forward my own needs.". (While I by myself would have a hard time doing this, I'm sure the U.S. Army wouldn't have much of a problem.) Also to toss out something and say that we've learned as much as we can from it indiciates either a level of clarivoyance that could prove quite useful to that Pentagon research team researching remote viewing or a streak of recklessness that would render much of the world rendered invalidated due to that opinion. Save the rainforests? Nah screw 'em, we've gotten all the useful things out of them, because I said so! Oceans? Fill them to the brim with trash! We've got pictures of all the fish I can stand. And hey! there's always the aquariums. As un-American as it is to say, we aren't the center of the universe.

Just as a snide retort, if there's a wall standing there, why break it down and put it in a bag? Just stand behind it? (This was said solely in jest, it is not serious at all.)Attaching usefulness of items based solely upon age or usability to a select group of people seems rather foolhardy. There are thousands of antique stores that make millions upon millions of dollars selling old things that obviously someone wants now. Basing use upon a select few would leave a lot of us walking, or with cars in the impound lot if nothing else.

While those of you who beleive that this action is correct may have the best interest of a select group of people at heart, it's not exactly fair, or right, to decide to screw 95% or more of the world's population who may be interested in such a unique and ancient set of ruins. To tear down a wall that has stood for thousands of years to fill a sandbag in a desert strikes as laziness of the highest degree. I'm pretty sure with the additional 80 billion dollars in appropriations being asked for they can afford a shovel or two. I'm sure they could even hire an Iraqi or two to fill those sandbags for some good ol' capitalism in action!

I'm sure that someone will go "oh! but what about the soldier's lives, that sandbag could save them." I'm sure that I'll be publically crucified for this particular stance, but crazy as it may seem, it would have been a whole lot safer to not send them in the first place. The WMD guise has already been pretty much shattered, so we're down to... spreading democracy was it? Does that mean we'll be invading North Korea and China next? Good times to be had there! I for one hope we don't half-ass this, if we're going to spread democracy to the world, we'd better not be just picking on the little kids. (Slight tangent, I know.)

ps. Ahhhh The Liberal... it burns... it burns...

edit: There should be a few comma splices, and maybe a mispelled word or two (hah, I made a funny!) to keep the grammar police going. sorry for the wordiness.

<3 Elira.

I'd have to agree that destroying something of historical value, even for protection, is stupid. If our troops are having to resort to this then something is terribly wrong.

And as for spreading democracy and all that nice jazz. I wonder how many lives we could save in Sudan with 5,000 troops or so. Makes ya think. :confused:

I'd like to preface this reply by saying I barely read any of this thread.

I think that we should destroy anything that Halo feels is of significant historical value just to spite him because he's Halo and seriously, fuck him.

I'd like to preface this reply by saying I barely read any of this thread.

I think that we should destroy anything that Halo feels is of significant historical value just to spite him because he's Halo and seriously, fuck him.

This is just about the most honest post anyone has ever made in a thread started by Halo. Personally I have no problem with him and usually I at least partially agree with his stance on whatever he is saying. I wish people would stop being dicks and disagreeing with Halo because they do not like him and at least disagree with him for a reason that makes sense.

(__))####D ~

I'm sure they could even hire an Iraqi or two to fill those sandbags for some good ol' capitalism in action! No, we usually conscript Mexican immigrants through Halliburton at fifty dollars an hour.

I'm the fabled grammar nazi for this thread i guess.

1) I was pointing out the irony, for humour.
2) I had no argument to further, it was a shot out of the blue.
3) I don't feel any "better" than Ibuden now, so it wasn't to boost my ego.

Like I said, irony.

talid is a wazooface

Fucking hell, you guys have far too much spare time on your hands.

'Nice one Disc. Too bad Halo would have had to present an argument. So far all he's done is, "Omg u don't appriiate history? lol man it's our PAST!!! We gotta preserve the PAST!! u fuckin' bush lovin MORONS. NIN forever."'

- Being akin to "OMG Y SHULD WEE APPRESHIT HISTORY?!?11 DOESNTL LAST 4EVRE!11, YOU SIN BASHING HOMOSEXAUDL FAGGOOTS"

That's why you're winning the campaign for Hearts and Minds.


HAHAHAHAHAHHAA.

That sig is really disturbing, Wiggo.

Nice one Disc. Too bad Halo would have had to present an argument. So far all he's done is, "Omg u don't appriiate history? lol man it's our PAST!!! We gotta preserve the PAST!! u fuckin' bush lovin MORONS. NIN forever."

NIN? Halo likes Nine Inch Nails? If that is true, then at least he has excellent taste in music. Anyways....

I decided to give you a few days to respond when I asked you what the hell you were talking about when you said:

You're the one who seems to think we can preserve all our history forever.
and
Aparently you only care about people and places when it can make you look compassionate and/or artistic.

But you not surprisingly ignored it and hoped it would go away. So where exactly did you see me say any of these things? I didn't. You seem to have a grudge against people that have these feelings or something. But guess what, that ain't me. I never stated once why I thought the incident was bad. Ya know why? Because I know you aren't worth explaining it to.

And unlike you, when I say those words about people, I actually follow through. Funny seeing you post a couple weeks ago about how posting on the internet is intellectual masturbation and you don't care about the opinion of people on these boards, and yet for a while your posts were the longest and most emotionally charged on this thread. ^_^

Oh, and spelling nazi's, I'm tired. Is bullshit one word or two?

Oh, and that WNGWJLTC sig ROCKS

bullshit

n : obscene words for unacceptable behavior; "I put up with a lot of bullshit from that jerk"; "what he said was mostly bull" [syn: bull (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=bull), Irish bull (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=irish%20bull), horseshit (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=horseshit), shit (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=shit), crap (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=crap), dogshit (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=dogshit)] v : talk through one's hat; "The politician was not well prepared for the debate and faked it" [syn: bull (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=bull), fake (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=fake)]

Apparently, horseshit and dogshit are one word as well.


For the record, I wasn't trying to be a grammar/spelling Nazi. I thought it humorous that Ibudin decided to correct Halo for exactly the same thing he did not 6 or 8 post before him. So, unless Ibudin traveled back in time to make that post, I do believe I was following the correct timeline for this thread.

At least Halo was gracious about it. :(

No worries, it's Ibudin after all, and I don't think any of us expected a grammer discussion to break out.

Yes, that type of thing is very important. But on message boards, I see no fault in not being perfect. What the hell is the big deal as long as you get your idea's across well and don't sound like a bnet kiddie?

Trying to say that someone making a typo or acidentally structuring their sentence incorrectly causes their argument to be invalid is just moronic. It shows that the person making the claim is unable to make a real argument, so he has to pick at the other person's spelling errors.

If my posts are emotionally charged it's because I just got done masturbating. Sandy and Sophie Moone make life worth living. Mmmmmm....lesbian goodness.

Anyways.

Things to note

1) Ham and Grahm Crackers do -not- mix well.

2) If you want to plow my car out of the way Pai, you go right on ahead. That's why I've got insurance. If you scratch my Gin Blossoms CD though, there's going to be hell to pay.

3) The difference between 'burning all the bibles' and 'knocking over Babylon' is thus. We have models, diagrams, documentaries, etc...etc...on Babylon, so even if you knocked it down and turned it into a McDonalds fun land, we'd still have evidence it existed and it's memory would endure. All you've done is hastened the inevitable.

Demolishing Babylon would be like burning the earliest bible. Burning all the bibles would be like destroying all documented evidence of their ever being a Babylon.

Understand rubber band?

Anyways.

4) Am I a USmonger? Not really. I have very little respect for the current US administration, be it liberal or conservative. 80+% of them are lying scumbags as far as I'm concerned. We really need a committee to decide how many government positions are worthless and start firing people.

I'm not overly fond of the military either, in fact I wouldn't mind us losing a war or three. I know, I know, horrible thing to say, that's someone's son and/or daughter. I'm sorry, but if "may get shot" in the job description didn't seem obvious to you, you may want to consider becoming a dentist instead.

5) A couple years back they tore down the wooden 'fort' at the school I went to as a kid. Why? Well, nobody was playing on it anymore and it was getting to be pretty ugly.

Why didn't any of you stop them? That thing was a landmark in my childhood. And now it's gone. Little more then dust and ashes. Who knows. If it hadn't been torn down it could have survived some unkown nuclear holocaust, and been the last vestige of an ancient civilization from 3000 years ago.

History is destroyed every day. Construction crews do it. Animals do it. Wind does it. Europeans do it. Chinese do it. Russians do it. Americans do it. Time does it. Hell, when I flush the toilet there goes some history right down the drain. If my poop lasts for 4,000 years, does that suddenly become a relic?

I believe it's important that we remember the past, we explore it and when possible discover as much about it as we can.

But if the choice is between preserving an 2800 year old road or putting up a Starbucks...well...just call me Joe Consumer.

6) This thread would be dead at about 13 posts two weeks ago were it not for my interjection. You can thank me later for giving you something to do when you're bored at work. If you really want I'll go back in time and argue for the other side and make this thread -really- boring. Then you'd know what it was like to be a mod on this board. "Hey, let's add some sparkle's to the banner Kivorn." "That's a great idea Sanchek!" "Yeah, hey, your cock is huge!" "I know, let me suck it!" "Oh yeah, daddy likes a good doggy." "Mmmrph."

'Oh, and that WNGWJLTC sig ROCKS'

- Think we just got ourselves the first Honourable Member of the We're Not Gay We Just Love The Cock foundation! Welcome aboard, matey! [you've so gotta put that in your sig now!]

Did Zehn just compare the ancient remains of Babylon to... a wooden fort in his school??

Is he actually saying these words?

'Oh, and that WNGWJLTC sig ROCKS'

- Think we just got ourselves the first Honourable Member of the We're Not Gay We Just Love The Cock foundation! Welcome aboard, matey! [you've so gotta put that in your sig now!]

Did Zehn just compare the ancient remains of Babylon to... a wooden fort in his school??

Is he actually saying these words?
Zehn is the center of the universe so his childhood fort is much more important than your stupid ancient history

Hey, they Babylonians are dead, it isn't like they care anymore. Someone making sandbags out of the Alamo would be a different story.

http://home.comcast.net/%7Ejandrmeadows/Images/T058832A.jpg

Haha!

Hey, look, foreign culture! Let's ruin it, the American Way!

We just don't understand why people don't like us...We brought the world MacDonalds!

don't forget wal-mart you limey bastard

oh yeah don't ever forget Wal-Mart damnit it spawned SAMs and I couldn't live w/o SAMs.

'Oh, and that WNGWJLTC sig ROCKS'

- Think we just got ourselves the first Honourable Member of the We're Not Gay We Just Love The Cock foundation! Welcome aboard, matey! [you've so gotta put that in your sig now!]

I'd be glad to join! And I'd put them in my sig, but I much prefer my Lee sig. Lee is the man.

Halo, you are such a twat sometimes :( Do you sit at the keyboard hitting F5, waiting for the moment to fling more anti American poo?

Selwen, we're all pretty sure that's a rhetorical question.

Wait, F5 can refresh the page?! Woah!

Now its going to increase tenfold, way to go. :(

Quote" Incase I had actually put too much confidence in your intelligence, I meant the so called "hearts and minds" campaign bullshit that your forces decided to commit to, in order to show the occupied people that you were nice occupiers.

But then, that was before the sexual abuse in the prison, and before vandalizing ancient historical sites.

But hey, you're definately winning the peace!
Oh, wait, no. No, you're not.

What was it you were winning again?"--Halochanter


Well, I may be going out on a limb here, but I can say without a doubt that you were never there to see for yourself. While I have.

While I find your "outrage" truly heartfelt, I would like to speak on behalf of all the American soldiers who were there, and are still there, fighting and dying every single day.

FUCK YOU.

I'm sure your opinion of this would change, had you been there, with bullets flying over head, and watching your buddies die.

90% of the troops in Iraq do not want to be there. We all know the war is bullshit. But you know where our hearts and motivation lies?

Our fellow soldiers, our brothers. The only thing that matters is making sure your brothers come back home with you.

So yes, if I have to weigh saving my brothers life, agianst "destroying" Ancient Babylon or whatever you want to call it.

Then I will gladly fill fucking sandbags, with fucking peices of the goddamned archaelogical site.

Get some fucking prespective on things you fucking liberal twat.

I wasnt able to read the article considering its already down by the website but what I have read from everyone elses posts here, I have come to this Conclusion.

Hello, I am a American Citizen who is studying History as my major at Iowa State University. Considering the fact that my life has consisted around figuring out what has happened in the past, to maybe prevent mistakes in the future. The Idea that Americans would destroy parts of a ancient city (Even something so small as a road) is very troubling. As much as you would like to believe that its European history and not ours, is not a valid argument. Unless you are 100 percent Amercian Indian then your whole life and the matter of how you grew up was started and molded by civilizations that came before us, for example Babylon. I dont understand the fact why they had to fill ancient ground artifacts into bags when there had to be many other things in a HUGE landmass that could of been used just the same. Showing no respect for OUR history in this regard would be like someone taking the constitution 30 years from now and using it as a means of keeping a fire going too survive (you know when WW3 is over and we are thrown back to the age of sticks and stones). I have to get going now, I am about to miss a test I need to take for learning about Europeans coming to America. Auf Weidrshin (sp)

Couple of quick thoughts on this already overdone thread.

1) You can't take two steps in the same direction in the Middle East without tripping over one historical sight or another to someone.

2) It's this innane lust for the defining of "MY CULTURE vs YOUR CULTURE" bullshit that has kept the area in arms against each other since we were nearly still born out of the so called cradle of Life.

3) It's also this innane lust for past culture that has kept Europe at it's own throat since time began and will eventually lead to the internal corruption of the so called EU.

The Past, while important , is only relevent for it's actions. A big stone that may or may not have been leaned upon by Jesus himself does not bear fruit. I'm more inclined to be curious about why he was tired than to place an innate value on a 2k old stone.

You going to save lives by tearing down the Lincoln Memorial? By gods I'll help ya...

But crikeys folks, don't make a mountain out of a molehill....hidden reference intended...

Fandros Finglaflin

Shamzy,

Listen, Frat boy. I know its difficult to understand and all, but when your on the ground, bullets flying over your head, and you watch your friends getting shot, then you will understand why American and Polish soldiers filled sandbags with anything they could find to protect themselves.

Unfortunately, you will never truly understand.

Heres the deal. While your happily taking your college tests. I was on the ground, sand in every oriface of my body, in 125-130 heat, wearing 80-100 pounds of armor and gear, and watching my subordinate soldiers, the men I was put in charge of, get shot to hell by fucking camel jockies.

And you know what? I could give a fuck less about Babylon, much less archaeological sites, much less the fucking the scrutiny of a bunch of liberal aristocrats in England. I was worried about one thing: the safety of my men, and making it home to see my daughter.

Every American needs to understand one thing. We don't ask for fucking war. You fucking elected Bush into office twice, and we are the ones dying for it.

Now I know someone's gonna say, well if you don't like it then why'd you join.

I was in the Army long before Bush. I could tell you I joined the Army because I think its the highest sacrifice someone can give to their country. Its and honorable career, and i'm tired of it being trashed by the media. All we soldiers ask is that you civilians who choose not to serve your country, at least do one thing.

Support your fucking soldiers. You don't have to support the war, you don't have to support Bush. Just support your fucking soldiers and be thankful they went, instead of you.

I'm sure Halo thinks American soldiers are just a bunch of right wing cowboys like Bush, who will trash archaeological sites, take pictures of naked prisoners just for the hell of it. However tarnished our image may be, let me assure you these were the actions of a few, not the whole.

What happened at Babylon was a command decision. I can personally attest that a few soldiers did not get together and say "hey lets fuck this place up"

I've got one question though. Halo where is your fucking bleeding heart when every year the rain forest is cut down, sewage dumped into the ocean, and animals tortured for science and medicine?

Just one question Trav. One old Vet to another...

Did you vote either time Bush was elected?

Fandros

yes.

Trav,

Was in the round of Desert Storm/Shield etc etc. I can honestly say this, and I speak for a metric shit ton of old vets.

If we'd have finished the first time around life would've been better. Fucking liberal pussies forced our coddling Pres Bush at the time to back down.

Our boys, your soldiers, paid the price and I grieve over that. But don't mistake that we needed to get this done. War is ugly aye, but sometimes you have to bear the brunt for the future of your daughter and my son. The current Pres Bush isn't at fault for this war. Place the blame on the bleeding heart wimps that forced our hand before, and stayed a philandering Clinton from doing the right thing.

The war had to be, no mistake it had to happen.

Kapiche?

Fandros

Best to break down the ancient ruins and stuff 'em where you have to. Because really, where the heck would you ever find sand in a place like Iraq?

And Fandros, if you can somehow blame Clinton for George I's mistake in not taking out Saddam in the first place (which, I agree, he should have done), then you may as well carry blame to Reagan for his support of Saddam. And from there you can blame every enabler back to the Babylonians whose ruins are, well, ruined. Cry about "liberal pussies" or whatever if it makes you feel better, but if the collective conservative spine wasn't strong enough to stand up to "bleeding hearts", what does that make the conservatives?

Oh I so agree Thor, 100%.

Fandros

Yes lets turn this into political discussion 1,001 woot!

Shamzy,

Listen, Frat boy.

*Tear* Thank you for that compliment :-D

I whole heartedly agree Fandross. My point was not that I was agianst the war, but that my prespectives changed shortly after I arrived. All I cared about was getting my soldiers and myself back home safely.

I just hate when american's don't support their soldiers. You don't have to agree with the war, but at least support the soldiers.

Currently i'm on another 18 month deployment to Kosovo. A different enviroment, but the same principles apply. At least the Albanians here appreciate our help, unlike the Iraqi's.

I would like to point out that a British military vehicle ran over a 3 year old girl in the MNB(C) sector about 1 month ago.

Wheres your bleeding heart Halo.

you guys are going on a tangent here.. The whole thread was about Military Destroying a piece of history.... I'm gonna stay nieve and just figure that the guys who did this had no absolute idea of what the fuck Babylonia is

I was in the Military and by gods I know what it is.

Rocks mean shit to me tho, well unless it's gold bearing ore. ;P

Fandros

The pity is that the original article is gone. All I have is what was posted up front, so let's review that again:
The report, quoted in Saturday's Guardian, said U.S. and Polish military vehicles had crushed 2,600-year-old pavements in the city, a cradle of civilisation and home to one of the seven wonders of the ancient world. Archaeological fragments were used to fill sand bags, it added.

So, vehicles crushed very pavements (and they were only old: these pavements were not one of the seven wonders of the ancient world). If it was done on purpose, it was probably for the "Drive down that alleyway and try to (do whatever it was they were doing)" type of purpose rather than the "Crush that really old pavement" type.

At some point in time, archaeological fragments (waste fragments from an archeology dig? the crushed pavement above? Bits from an old ruin that was blown apart from a bomb strike?) was used to fill sand bags.

Seems a lot of facts are missing about the extent of what happened and if it is still going on.

In any event, archaeology is a fairly new science. Placing value on things just because they are old is a very new idea- indeed, in many cases old "ruins" were demolished or built over becuase they occupied the best space in an area. There wasn't much hand wringing done over it.

This disrespect of the past is why things like the pavement above is valuable to some- there isn't much of it left. Other objects have a direct link to the past in perhaps a more visceral way: I stared for a long time at an ancient Greek helmet, amazed by how *small* it was as well as how well it endured. There is no question to me that that bit of hoplite gear had value. That pavement had value.

However, in a combat area, I seriously doubt that resources are going to be diverted to ship sand in to an area that needs sandbags filled NOW. It just isn't going to happen.

Saying things like: "Because really, where the heck would you ever find sand in a place like Iraq?" really doesn't focus on the issue- Iraq can have all the sand you want laying about, but unless there is sand where you want when you want- it doesn't matter when the bullets start flying- and waiting 10 minutes to get sand trucked in from outside of town can mean the difference between people living and dying.

Really, the only test this argument needs is this: If you could use that (whatever historical artifact you want) to possibly save your life, would you do it?

I would. I might feel very, very bad about it 25 years later, but I'd be around to feel bad about it.

its auf wiedersehen

Saying things like: "Because really, where the heck would you ever find sand in a place like Iraq?" really doesn't focus on the issue...

I'm going to sing a dirge for satire this evening.
Problem with Halo is he actually thinks Americans are gun happy, republican cowboys who want to pick fights with everyone obfuscating the real truth with the old "spread democracy" bullshit we've been hand fed since the WMD didn't quite pan out.

Truth is, we are in Iraq for oil and to kick Saddam's ass. I wish Bush would have just stood up and said that to begin with. He had enough balls to say "fuck you" to the UN and attack Iraq, even though he knew Afghanistan was where the war should be.
Doesn't your second paragraph confirm Halo's alleged impressions that you present in the first?
You think electing John Kerry into office would have changed dick? A democrat who promised to lick the UN's proverbial boots in hopes they would suddenly forget that we gave the UN the finger 4 years earlier?
Again, you seem to contradict yourself. You're criticizing Kerry for wanting to work with the UN (something Bush faintly tried and failed to do), but then saying he'd do exactly the same thing (which is vague, since we're already in Iraq -- the question now is how we get out).
I'm trying to educate you "nieve" (naive, frat boy) liberals on where to place your loyalties; in the soldiers, not the war.
It's difficult to "place loyalty" in someone whose arguments boil down to name calling and bad analogies. I'm glad that you're not suckered into seeing the war as some grandiose fight for democracy, but it's unclear -- given that -- why you attack those who regard the war so dubiously.

Or maybe I'm reading too much into your comments and you're simply trying to justify the destruction of some ruins. All in all, it's not a bad thing for soldiers to defend themselves with what they have at hand, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't lament the loss of historical objects and places.

PS: I mentioned Babylonia just yesterday, in fact, while discussing a bit of Israeli history with a co-worker.

Your absolutely right. I did contradict myself. I take it back.

As far as the name calling? I don't know, I really just can't stand liberal naive civilians. Call me arrogant, or an asshole if you want. I stand firmly on the side of the soldiers.

Remember Thormir, Bush was elected twice into office. Apparently i'm not the only one who thinks John Kerry was a joke.

I never said Kerry would do the same thing as Bush. In fact, what I did say was that John Kerry promised to licks the UN's proverbial boots in hopes that the UN would suddenly forget what Bush had done 4 years prior. I fail to see where this is "the same thing" that Bush did.

The question is not how do we get out of Iraq. Because quite honestly we will be there at least 10 years from now. We've been in Kosovo for 12 years, and they are just getting on their feet so to speak with the Kosovo police service nearing 7000 officers trained.

I stand firmly on the side of the soldiers.
You seem to be suggesting that liberals do not stand on the side of the soldiers merely due to their political leanings. This is clearly false. Those against the war's handling have pointedly directed their criticism to the leadership (Bush, Rumsfeld, etc), not the soldiers. The only politician of note I recall ever criticizing the troops was Giuliani.
Remember Thormir, Bush was elected twice into office. Apparently i'm not the only one who thinks John Kerry was a joke.
I think a lot of people who voted for Bush wouldn't refer to Kerry as a joke. He wasn't a very good candidate, to be sure, but a joke? I personally find Bush to be a far greater source of laughs than Kerry could ever aspire to be. He did, however, have Karl Rove, and ran a much better campaign than Kerry.
I never said Kerry would do the same thing as Bush.
That was in response to your statement: "You think electing John Kerry into office would have changed dick?" You might clarify what you meant. I understood it to mean that electing Kerry would yield the same course of war as Bush's re-election.
The question is not how do we get out of Iraq. Because quite honestly we will be there at least 10 years from now.
I don't disagree with the second sentence, but I still consider the question vital (at least as far as US involvement in all this is concerned). But you do allude to the clear lack of exit strategy and post-war management that's bogged this war down and will, quite possibly, leave us there for the next decade. We need to get Iraqi soldiers trained, and trained well, and get you and the rest of our troops out of there. I think it a very pertinent question indeed.

You seem to be suggesting that liberals do not stand on the side of the soldiers merely due to their political leanings. This is clearly false. Those against the war's handling have pointedly directed their criticism to the leadership (Bush, Rumsfeld, etc), not the soldiers. The only politician of note I recall ever criticizing the troops was Giuliani.

I think a lot of people who voted for Bush wouldn't refer to Kerry as a joke. He wasn't a very good candidate, to be sure, but a joke? I personally find Bush to be a far greater source of laughs than Kerry could ever aspire to be. He did, however, have Karl Rove, and ran a much better campaign than Kerry.

That was in response to your statement: "You think electing John Kerry into office would have changed dick?" You might clarify what you meant. I understood it to mean that electing Kerry would yield the same course of war as Bush's re-election.

I don't disagree with the second sentence, but I still consider the question vital (at least as far as US involvement in all this is concerned). But you do allude to the clear lack of exit strategy and post-war management that's bogged this war down and will, quite possibly, leave us there for the next decade. We need to get Iraqi soldiers trained, and trained well, and get you and the rest of our troops out of there. I think it a very pertinent question indeed.

How many aristocratic beauracrats in office would send their sons and daughters into Iraq?

Never mind the Abu Ghraib "naked pictures" incidents. There are no government officials being tried, the soldiers are paying.

Do you honestly think a few lower enlisted soldiers got together and said, "hey, I just read a book on advanced torture techniques, lets torture these bastards!"

Do you honestly think that the officers in command at Abu Ghraib really had no idea what was going on in their prison?

Why was the General allowed to retire, keep all her benefits, while the highest soldier paying the price was a Staff Sergeant? She claimed ignorance, and was simply retired early.

The liberal democrat beauracrats could honestly give a fuck about the soldiers, they just want to use Abu Ghraib as a reason to get Bush out of office. Irregardless, the average american civilian should fucking support the soldiers.

I don't see this happening. I worked homeland security in support of Operation Noble Eagle right after returning from Iraq and I can personally attest to seeing civilians standing outside our gates cursing us.

While the liberal college brats sleep safely in the dorms, and the liberals in office drive 50,000 dollar vehicles home to dinner with their families and their kids every night, the fucking soldiers are getting shot at all day, and mortar'd while they sleep, just hoping to survive to see their families and kids.

Biggest fuck ups of the war? Bush disbanded the Iraqi army. Now you've got a bunch of soldiers with no job, no money and nothing to do. Can you say, Insurgents?

Bush disbanded the Baathe party and he won't let them take part in the new government. He should have restructured the Baathe party, and still let them be a legitimate party. Now all those former Sada'am supporters are the ones leading the insurgency.

He should have shut down the borders around the country completly. This would have required another 200,000 soldiers, but it would have stopped all the bastards from Iran and Syria from crossing the border to "fight the american jihad"

As far as I'm concered, they can train all the police force, and soldiers of Iraq that they want, it will never turn out like Kosovo though. The Iraqi people only know one thing. War. They've been killing each other for the last 2000 years and fighting over power of the government. They do not understand the concept of Democracy, nor will they ever embrace it. If and when we ever leave, they will simply fall into civil war. Its a nice thought, America spreads democracy throughout the region, and suddenly everybody is all happy-go-lucky fucktards helping their neighbors, and old ladys crossing the street, but it will never happen.

Wow, took a dead, stupid thread, and shoveled another nice big of stupid on top of it.

Do you have a point travesty, other then that anyone that doesn't support everything a soldier does should just shut the fuck up?

Errr Baathe is a religous body of folks, Bush can't simply tear down nor rebuild them as he's not a member.

Fandros

Travesty, I'd agree with pretty much every point you made that didn't have the word "liberal" in it. Conservatives go to college, drive $80,000 cars, and are the ones sheltering Rumsfeld and other top leaders from the Abu Ghraib issue (and other uncovered issues of torture). The ACLU has just filed suit against Rumsfeld on behalf of 8 tortured detainees; it'll be quite a case if it goes anywhere.

I agree that bureaucrats aren't going to be the first to send their sons and daughters to war, but it was a Democrat -- Charlie Rangel -- who proposed a draft for the express purpose of giving legislators pause when considering a declaration of war. If their children may be drawn into the conflict, he reasoned, maybe they'd not be so eager to send in the troops.

I'm not sure why you criticize the politicization of Abu Ghraib by "liberals" when you clearly recognize the responsibility borne by those in charge. The Dems did go after Rumsfeld for it (not Bush), but it's the Republicans that maintained the crimes were committed by a few bad apples (a position you clearly oppose). It's clear from your arguments that the Republicans should be most on your shitlist, but for whatever reason (something for you to answer for yourself) you direct your vitriol to the Democrats who had little to do with your current situation.

On other fronts, you make valid points.
Errr Baathe is a religous body of folks, Bush can't simply tear down nor rebuild them as he's not a member.
Ba'ath is a political party dominant in Syria and (until recently) Iraq. It's mostly secular, with a focus on pan-Arabism, militarism, and nationalism. Saddam paid lip service to Islam but nothing more; he ran a secular government of which the Ba'ath party was a major participant.

Aye, that's the real definition of Baathe, but most folks would agree they , the Baathes(?) hide behind religion when needed.

And while the new Govt, and previously the interim version, put alot of pressure to limit the political power of the Baathes, it was and is beyond Bush's power to do so directly. You really can't blame anyone that wasn't Baathe from wanting them gone. They were a very viscious minority of a very diverse people and weilded power way out of propertion.

Fandros

Ahem.

Fuck the military.

That is all.

Thats okay Zehn, because the Military sure as hell would say fuck you to your 4F ass anyways...

Fandros

Ahem.

Fuck the military.

That is all.

I know your trying to get a rise out of me.

you are a nasty civilian. Remember that.

If you said that to my face in person, i'd kick your ass on the spot.

Travesty, I'd agree with pretty much every point you made that didn't have the word "liberal" in it. Conservatives go to college, drive $80,000 cars, and are the ones sheltering Rumsfeld and other top leaders from the Abu Ghraib issue (and other uncovered issues of torture). The ACLU has just filed suit against Rumsfeld on behalf of 8 tortured detainees; it'll be quite a case if it goes anywhere.

I agree that bureaucrats aren't going to be the first to send their sons and daughters to war, but it was a Democrat -- Charlie Rangel -- who proposed a draft for the express purpose of giving legislators pause when considering a declaration of war. If their children may be drawn into the conflict, he reasoned, maybe they'd not be so eager to send in the troops.

I'm not sure why you criticize the politicization of Abu Ghraib by "liberals" when you clearly recognize the responsibility borne by those in charge. The Dems did go after Rumsfeld for it (not Bush), but it's the Republicans that maintained the crimes were committed by a few bad apples (a position you clearly oppose). It's clear from your arguments that the Republicans should be most on your shitlist, but for whatever reason (something for you to answer for yourself) you direct your vitriol to the Democrats who had little to do with your current situation.

On other fronts, you make valid points.

Ba'ath is a political party dominant in Syria and (until recently) Iraq. It's mostly secular, with a focus on pan-Arabism, militarism, and nationalism. Saddam paid lip service to Islam but nothing more; he ran a secular government of which the Ba'ath party was a major participant.

Your right Thormir, I never looked at it that way, but its true.

Anyways, 90% of the soldiers I talk to hate Cheney. And I would have to agree with them. I'm sure him and the rest of KBR and Haliburton are laughing all the way to the bank on the war in Iraq.

Fandros,
I agree with what your saying regarding the Baath party. They have been in power a long time, and have really fucked the Kurds up over that time period. I can completly understand the Kurds wanting power so that they could kick the Baathe partys ass for a few years.

Fuck the military.

Yes please do, support our troops, sleep with them!

If you said that to my face in person, i'd kick your ass on the spot.

Haha. And then you'd be arrested for assault and kicked out of the military. Way to approach the situation with a cool head. I guess learning how to handle situations intelligently wasn't part of your training. Good to know your "how to be shot at and use that as clout to be a dick" skill is up to date however.

Man, I don't know how you put up with it Elemak. My friend Nick gets so much pussy it isn't funny.

you are a nasty civilian. Remember that.

I love people like this.

"I was in the military, therefore I am automatically better then you in every way, no matter how moronic I act!"

Funny, I never would have figured that me and The Perfect Flaw would have ended up agreeing at the end of this thread, but what he said about how you'd "kick his ass on the spot" was damn good.

As I've tried to convey DiscW, my publicized opinions are often in flux. Agreeing with people on an internet message board is boring to say the least, so long as good taste is still contained. You've probably seen me argue on the side of Christianity multiple times, which is odd because although I am a deist (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=deist) (though I do believe in the man Christ), I find that most Christians are disgustingly, or perhaps blissfully, ignorant of the very book who's doctrines they profess belief in.

It's just much more fun when people come to the boards with ignorant tales of, "I was molested by a Christian, ergo all Christians are evil" or "Christianity has killed more people then any war!" to take Christianities side and point out abortion, an obviously non-Christian action, has taken more lives then any war.

That's my statement on that issue, so please, don't let this thread continue in a religious discussion. I was just using it to make a point, and I really hope that this thread doesn't carry on for 20 more pages as people try to prove why abortion is a-okay with the bible because some obscure passage in Timothy says that some dude killed a baby and wasn't punished for it.

El fin.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZ congratulations on altering the thread!

So some random drive-by wanna be hardcore epeen can threaten me with IRL physical violence, but I can't tell off some un-thinking college brat?

Gee, I'm sure glad Kivorn left such awesome mods like you in place to run this place. No wonder it's as boring as shit around here.

It was better the other way Vhex :(

Haha. And then you'd be arrested for assault and kicked out of the military. Way to approach the situation with a cool head. I guess learning how to handle situations intelligently wasn't part of your training. Good to know your "how to be shot at and use that as clout to be a dick" skill is up to date however.

Ya right, military would kick me out for assault. Obviously you don't know anything about the military. Worse case scenario? Spend a night in jail, and maybe get an article 15. I'm pretty sure my commander would give me a pat on the back however.

Let me ask you something, what have you done to serve your country? How about your community? How about anyone but yourself?

My guess is nothing.

I love people like this.

"I was in the military, therefore I am automatically better then you in every way, no matter how moronic I act!"

Funny, I never would have figured that me and The Perfect Flaw would have ended up agreeing at the end of this thread, but what he said about how you'd "kick his ass on the spot" was damn good.

Ya, call me an arrogant asshole if you want, I serve my country, what do you do?

He wanted to get a rise out of me, and he did. I'm quite postive he would never say that to any member of the military in real life however.

I serve my country, what do you do?

I've built roofs, helped the elderly mow their lawns, packed envelopes for church's, worked in customer service...which if you're inept means SERVING PEOPLE...people who make up this COUNTRY...oh hey, there goes your entire bravado. What do you do? Do glorified jumping jacks, pat other guys on the ass and learn how to shoot straight?

Congratulations jackass, you're a football player that gets shot at.

But it's good to see that the miltiary is still able to take fragile minds like yours and convince them that there's some 'above and beyond' glory to what you're doing. People die in the work place, every - fucking - day. Are you saying these people are worthless? That their opinion doesn't matter because you can do 50 pushups and dig a hole in 5 minutes?

There's nothing special about you. You're just another worthless piece of shit like the rest of us. Feel free to glorify what you do because honestly, nobody gives a rats ass.

Don't like people not treating you like the second coming of Jesus? Then move. Welcome to America, asshole.

Ya, call me an arrogant asshole if you want, I serve my country, what do you do?

He wanted to get a rise out of me, and he did. I'm quite postive he would never say that to any member of the military in real life however.

No, I know plenty of arrogant asshole's. You're just totally full of shit.

What do I do? I'll let you know something: There are ways of helping the country that don't involve ass kicking. I know it's a shock, but its true.

And if you think that someone would never say something to a member of the military like that, you're going to have a hell of a shock when(if?) you come back to reality.

You're just another worthless piece of shit like the rest of us.

HAHA now thats comedy, I dont care who you are.

Wow Vhex, you really are trying to compensate. Sure the kid is full of himself and seems perhaps more than a tad shell shocked...

But there is much honor in serving in the military. Just because you are either unfit mentally or physically to serve don't bother to denegrate those that do truly serve.

Ignorant self serving motor mouthed child that you are are incapable of understanding the sacrifices needed to don a uniform of the US Armed Forces.

Please to fuck off now lil one...

Fandros

As an aside, I've said it to a shitton of members of the military. Haven't been hit yet! Maybe it's becuase, oh I dunno, they're more stable individuals then you could ever hope to be, they just tip back their beer and say, "Yeah well, fuck turkey'ss." And then we laugh and continue to make fun of everybody else.

Maybe when you grow up you're realize that guys talk shit about eachother all the time. The only people that get upset about it are emo kids and faggots. You don't strike me as emo so that pretty much narrows it down, doesn't it boy?

Fandros however, is definately emo. He accuses others of being childish and immature while he himself is incapabale of sustaining a logical argument.

/chuckle

I highly doubt you have many military friends who would enjoy listening to you deride their sacrifices while you sit at Mom's stuffing recipee envelopes for her.

Never the matter, I'm BORED and you're an all too easy target while I'm whiling away my break.

Fandros

Considering my taxes pay for your guns, I'd think you'd be a little more appreciative.

Screw that, I'm not a ground pounder. I was smert and enlisted in a branch that sends its officers to fight.

Fandros

I've built roofs, helped the elderly mow their lawns, packed envelopes for church's, worked in customer service...which if you're inept means SERVING PEOPLE...people who make up this COUNTRY...oh hey, there goes your entire bravado. What do you do? Do glorified jumping jacks, pat other guys on the ass and learn how to shoot straight?

Congratulations jackass, you're a football player that gets shot at.

But it's good to see that the miltiary is still able to take fragile minds like yours and convince them that there's some 'above and beyond' glory to what you're doing. People die in the work place, every - fucking - day. Are you saying these people are worthless? That their opinion doesn't matter because you can do 50 pushups and dig a hole in 5 minutes?

There's nothing special about you. You're just another worthless piece of shit like the rest of us. Feel free to glorify what you do because honestly, nobody gives a rats ass.

Don't like people not treating you like the second coming of Jesus? Then move. Welcome to America, asshole.

Wow, instead of sarcasm, you hit me with anger. Did I strike a chord?

You really must be kidding me however, you honestly think working in a church, helping an old bag mow her lawn, and working customer service is a good rebuttal?

You truly are pathetic.

Haha, anger. I'm not the one threatening to punch people over the internet. All you need is a good screen name like, xxTupackillahx. No my friend, I'd have to care about you in the first place to get angry at you, and I care more about this mediterranian chicken sub that I'm about to consume. It, as far as I'm concerned, is serving this country more then you will.

Again, you're trying to attribute something special to what you do. The bag lady at Copps is just as important to this country, and more well liked because she says her pleases and thankyous, and if you say, "Fuck Copps," all she'll say is, "Would you like paper or plastic?"

You on the other hand, threaten people who don't agree with you or suck your cock when you walk by with disdain because you can run an obstacle course and lay in the sand for ten hours praying you don't get shot. Congratulations.

Did you join the armed forces to protect people you despise ("old bag?") or so that you could act like a clown on a message board? Flaw may be pathetic, but it's not because he decided to do something with himself other than join the military. This sort of display impresses no one, and certainly won't incite any special sympathy or admiration for our troops. You do yourself and everyone in uniform a disservice with such childishness.

I read Thormir's posts, but all I hear is, "Slurp, slurp, slurrrrrp...Oh massa Sanchek, you so big, sluuuuuuurp."

Flaw may be patheticyea and he also may be a 7 foot tall chinaman who couldn't get into the NBA but the point i'm trying to make here is you're right

Did you join the armed forces to protect people you despise ("old bag?") or so that you could act like a clown on a message board? Flaw may be pathetic, but it's not because he decided to do something with himself other than join the military. This sort of display impresses no one, and certainly won't incite any special sympathy or admiration for our troops. You do yourself and everyone in uniform a disservice with such childishness.

Wow, now i'm being childish. Have you read anything he has written?

I read Thormir's posts, but all I hear is, "Slurp, slurp, slurrrrrp...Oh massa Sanchek, you so big, sluuuuuuurp."

I rest my case.

You're both being dumbasses.

He's just a dumbass with a bit of a point. You've just been flailing wildly making other members of the military look bad cause of it.

Oh yes I come to this board to make generalized opinions of our military based on some freaks posting..rofl you kill me Discw.

You're both being dumbasses.

He's just a dumbass with a bit of a point. You've just been flailing wildly making other members of the military look bad cause of it.

Really? and what "bit of a point" would that be? The part about sucking cock? or the part about how helping his mom stuff envelops compares to fighting in a war for your country?

Zehn did the argument that he doesn't come here to do any real thinking long ago and much better then you could Ibudin, don't bother.

fighting in a war for your country?

Iraq right?

^_^

And I thought Travesty was american... Damn I'm all confused now. :confused:

I think there is honor and courage in the act of going to war when your government commands it; I just feel it is unfortunate that our government chose to command it.