And then there are those wo exist in some sort of terror limbo - the prisoners of Guantanamo Bay. All of a sudden you were really excited to have Cuba right next door - what better place to put all our newly captured evildoers? Six hundred and eighty people - including three children ages thiteen to sixteen - are incarcerated there indefinitely. No charges, no sentence to servem no lawyers, no nothing. Is it any wonder there have been 28 suicide attempts among those imprisoned there?
To date, there are already at least 42 documented cases of FBI abouse under the Patriot Act - and at least another 966 individuals have filed formal complaints. Many of these people were just minding their own business, or seeking to partake in our free and open society. Consider these examples:

- John CLarke, an organizer of the Ontario Coalition Against Poverty (OCAP), was detained at American Border by immigration officals on his way to a speaking engagement at Michigan State University. A State Department agent drove in from Detroit and interrogated CLarke about his participation in anti-globalization protests, about whether he "opposed the ideology of the United States" and even about the whereabouts of Osama Bin Laden. The agent presented a State Department folder on OCAP that included the name of a man with whom CLark had stayed in Chicago, and leaflets from Clarke's previous speaking engagements in the U.S.

- A suburban New York judge asked Anissa Khoder, a U.S. citizen of lebanese descent, if she was "a terrorist" when she appeared in court over parking tickets.

- In May 2002 six french journalists were stopped at Los Angeles International Airport, interrogated and subjected to body searches. They were detained for more then a day and expelled from the United States (without offical reason) before they could reach their final destination: A video game trade show.

- At a high school in Vermont, a uniformed police officer entered teacher Tom Treece's classroom at 1:30am to photograph a student art project that depicted "President Bush with duct tape over his mouth" and the caption, "Put your duct tape to good use. Shut your mouth". Treece was removed from teaching his class.

- A college student in North Carolina, A.J.Brown, was visited by two secret service agents who quesitoned her about her possession of "anti-American" material. Without inviting them in, Brown showed the agents what they came for: an anti-death-penalty poster showing Bush and a group of lynched bodies with the caption: "We hang on your every word".

- North Carolina Green Party activist Doug Stuber was detained and questioned while trying to fly to Prague, then told that no Greens were allowwed to fly that day. His interrogators showed him a document of the Justice Department that showed hthat Greens were likely terrorists, and the Secret Service took a mug shot from the family. Stuber was forced to turn back.

There are other incidents that, while they may not be the work of the Feds, they represent the chilling effects this has had on (y)our society. Here are two examples:

- CBS fired the producer of Hitler: The Raise of Evil for statements he made comparing the mood of America to that in Germany when Hitler ascended to power.

- And, a twelth grade teacher at English High School in Lynn, Massachusetts, was forced to stop showing Bowling for Columbine to her classes because the principals said the movie contains "anti-war messages".


As you can see, the effects of BUsh's actions go far beyond issues related to terrorism. There is an athmosphere that has been created that people had better watch what they say or do, every day. (In Fact, no less authority then White House spokesman Ari Fleischer warned critics of the Bush administration - and specifically Comedian Bill Maher - to "watch what they say, watch what they do.")

What really gets to me is the way this band of deceivers has used September 11 as the excuse for everything. It's no longer just to pass measures to protect us from a "terrorist threat". September 11 is now the answer. It is the manna from heaven the right has always prayed for. Want a new weapon system? have to have it! Why? Well... 9/11! Want to relax the pollution laws? It's a must! Why? 9/11! Want to invade a country having nothing to do with 9/11, having no WoMD, which even is an enemy of Bin Laden? Of course! Why? 9/11! Want to outlaw abortion? Absolutely! Why? 9/11! What does 9/11 have to do with abortion? Hey, why are you quesitoning the government? Someone call the FBI!

To the rest of the world, it looks liek you've gone mad. People in most other countries have been living with acts of terrorism for years, some for decades. What do they do? Well, they don't go crazy with fear. The average Ire or Frensh doesn't stock up on duct tape or stops using the subway. They just learned to live with it. Shit happens.
But what to you do? You invent color-coded threat charts. You frisk ninety-years-old in wheelchairs. You attack the Bill of Rights. Yeah, that'll show those terrorists! Let's dismantle our way of life so they won't have to blow it up.
This makes no sense.
None of this is to say that certain precautions shouldn't be taken to prevent those few acts of terror that do occur.
Perhaps George W. Bush should have made it a point to read the reports the CIA sent him. On August 6, 2001, according to the Washington Post, just weeks before September 11, Bush was given a comprehensive report marked "URGENT" warning him that al Qaida was planning a major attack on the U.S. (The full contents of the memo are not known to the public because Bush has refused to release it, despite Condoleezza Rice saying repeatedly that there was nothing specific in the report. If there's nothing specific, then why can't they release it?) Worse, a 1999 report already warned that Al Qaida was looking into using planes as missiles with the intention of crashing them into government buildings.

Why didn't Bush, with an intelligence memo in his hands warning that attacks were imminent, couled with the reports passed along by the Clinton administration, alert the nation? Was he too busy taking his month-long vacation in Crawfort, Texas? Bush failed to do his job and it may have cost 3000 people their lives. That alone should be enough to haul him before an impeachment tribunal. Lying about sex, as far as I know, cost no one their life in the CLinton White House.

For instance, what if, during the late 1990's, the Republicans had let the FBI do its real job - protecting lives of your citizens - instead of having them spend countless hours investigating the sex habits os the president or some rinky-dink land deal of the first lady's? At some point, more than 200 FBI agents were assigned to some portion of the witch hunt to get the Clintons. Two hundred FBI agents who should have been checking how terrorists got to stay in the country, long after their visas expired. Two hundred FBI agents who should have been training airport security.
Two hundred FBI agents who should have been doing ANYTHING other than having their time wasted by vindictive, sexobsessed, right-wing Republicans wanting to write a $50 million porn book about where the president kept his cigars.


....

Just some minor excerptions of my personal opinion. I know I will cause flames, but I gave this all some thoughts and informed myself after the latest capture of Saddam and felt like sharing it. I know it won't be welcome. So no need for personal insults. Just say that you disagree and why. Thanks.

Taion, you've been into Hartmu's supply of bullshit pie haven't you? 8(

Where do you take all that info Taino? Would probably be a good read, i always want to hear some news other than the brainwashing bullshit i hear all day.

Impresario Almadar Tegleftyln
Retired

I don't have a great impression of hartmut. Actually, in EQ terms, he's a fucking asshole. In political terms he has some points but is way way too extreme to be taken for rreally serious.

I take my info from mostly US press. I can also provide sources, if I'd actually take the time. But the time invested in even writing this was already too much I guess its just not worth it as this will all just end up in a flame.
All those infos are available to you, too. Its no secret plan or whatever. Read the news.

'...was forced to stop showing Bowling for Columbine to her classes because the principals said the movie contains "anti-war messages".'

- Wow. Nothing gets past them.

FIRST PAGE POST!!!!

Seeing as how Bowling for Columbine is bullshit, and pretty much everything they say is taken out of context, I don't see why anyone would disagree from not showing it in schools.

it's like teachers putting on the movie spider man in schools, if they show it, it must be real!

And if we put on any type of pro-war movie, the same asshole crybabies would bitch.

Has anyone else noticed that Taino has become very upset with America since we got SH? I mean wow. He has really turned it up a notch. I wonder what he is really up to. What he is really hiding. Does this not send red flags up with anyone else?

What really gets to me is the way this band of deceivers has used September 11 as the excuse for everything. It's no longer just to pass measures to protect us from a "terrorist threat". September 11 is now the answer. It is the manna from heaven the right has always prayed for. Want a new weapon system? have to have it! Why? Well... 9/11! Want to relax the pollution laws? It's a must! Why? 9/11! Want to invade a country having nothing to do with 9/11, having no WoMD, which even is an enemy of Bin Laden? Of course! Why? 9/11! Want to outlaw abortion? Absolutely! Why? 9/11! What does 9/11 have to do with abortion? Hey, why are you quesitoning the government? Someone call the FBI!

Nope.

Why didn't Bush, with an intelligence memo in his hands warning that attacks were imminent, couled with the reports passed along by the Clinton administration, alert the nation? Was he too busy taking his month-long vacation in Crawfort, Texas? Bush failed to do his job and it may have cost 3000 people their lives. That alone should be enough to haul him before an impeachment tribunal. Lying about sex, as far as I know, cost no one their life in the CLinton White House.

Speculation.

- And, a twelth grade teacher at English High School in Lynn, Massachusetts, was forced to stop showing Bowling for Columbine to her classes because the principals said the movie contains "anti-war messages".

Alleged, never proven.

- CBS fired the producer of Hitler: The Raise of Evil for statements he made comparing the mood of America to that in Germany when Hitler ascended to power.

Wouldn't you? If you ran an ice cream shop and one of your employees started handing out pamphlets to everyone saying "The Bible says we should all rape our sisters!" (which is about as accurate as comparing America to pre-war Germany in any way)

- A college student in North Carolina, A.J.Brown, was visited by two secret service agents who quesitoned her about her possession of "anti-American" material. Without inviting them in, Brown showed the agents what they came for: an anti-death-penalty poster showing Bush and a group of lynched bodies with the caption: "We hang on your every word".

Just doing their job.

Y'know what, I'm beginning to notice a trend, heh. When I do searches to find out more about these things....-every- single one is only 'verified' by anti-American websites. I have yet to see a single source come from any type of reputable media site.

To the rest of the world, it looks liek you've gone mad.

And to us, it looks like the rest of the world really needs to get laid.

The average Ire or Frensh doesn't stock up on duct tape or stops using the subway.

Neither does the average American. You have whacko's, we have whacko's.

You frisk ninety-years-old in wheelchairs.

We also accuse 80 year old nuns of downloading MP3's on her' compootur.

You attack the Bill of Rights.

Oh nos! Not teh billz of rites! Americans attack everything. Don't you understand? Everything!

Perhaps George W. Bush should have made it a point to read the reports the CIA sent him. On August 6, 2001, according to the Washington Post, just weeks before September 11, Bush was given a comprehensive report marked "URGENT" warning him that al Qaida was planning a major attack on the U.S. (The full contents of the memo are not known to the public because Bush has refused to release it, despite Condoleezza Rice saying repeatedly that there was nothing specific in the report. If there's nothing specific, then why can't they release it?) Worse, a 1999 report already warned that Al Qaida was looking into using planes as missiles with the intention of crashing them into government buildings.

Oh that would go over well with the public. "Have a good thanksgiving. Oh, one more thing. A terrorist organization may attempt to use planes to crash them into our buildings. We don't know who, how, when or where yet, but when we find out, we'll be sure to let you know!"

For instance, what if, during the late 1990's, the Republicans had let the FBI do its real job - protecting lives of your citizens - instead of having them spend countless hours investigating the sex habits os the president or some rinky-dink land deal of the first lady's?

Ahhh good, been looking for the guy who wrote the mission statement for the FBI. Now could you kindly tell the police departments of America to stop writing speeding tickets and go do their real job? Y'know, being a widowed white male who befriends a large black man and through many witty adventures continues to capture the bad guys again and again whilte defying their lovable yet strict chief of police. Because as we all know, you're an expert on America having watched all those movies and Lethal Weapon is a perfect example of how law enforcement works!

------

So in closing, I've said this once and I'll say it again, the sooner the world realizes that America hates and mistrusts itself more then you ever will, is the day that we can all go on living.

Trust me on this. We've been hating on America since it's inception. The difference is we hate America because we want to change it to a better place. You might not, but many others detest America simply for being.

'And to us, it looks like the rest of the world really needs to get laid.'

- You've presented some very interesting arguments and perspectives in that post. None of which, in the slightest, means "I don't have a point!" No sirrrey.

G'night!

out of context!

>Hey look, an oliphunt.

pure genious on rebutal!

Well, one thing he listed I have to agree with, sort of. The Bill of Rights has been undergoing erosion for some time. It started well before 9/11 and the current administration however. The fact that I can have a large amount of cash seized from my person just because there is a suspicion it might be related to the drug trade clearly violates the Bill of Rights IMO. That all started with "The War on Drugs" and is still going on today. The courts need to get with it and overturn some of this crap that has been allowed to go on for more than a decade.

As far as most of the other anecdotes, there are plenty of others where intolerance of someone's opinion springs from the liberal side as well. Hyper PC, hounding of right leaning academics in our universities or what have you. My understanding is that intolerance of other opinions is not unique to the US or unique to either left or right.

I also had to laugh when you implied the FBI was working for the republicans during the Clinton years. The FBI does not work for the legislative branch. They reported to Janet Reno, a staunch Clinton supporter (and IMO the very worst AG in my lifetime). If anything, a number of embarrassing investigations were likely stifled. The investigations you are thinking of were instigated by Congress using "special investigators" that are not part of the FBI. That tactic has been going on by both parties since Nixon got caught with his hand in the cookie jar, or even further if you want to look at the red scare.

With regards to the prisoners in Guantanamo, I do think the majority should be classified as POWs. They should NOT be released on a whim, I don't care how many of them decide to off themselves. There are some who may not be Taliban, but don't forget the vast majority of them were taken under arms and would love nothing better than to go back to Afghanistan and start fighting again. Treat them like POWs, but remember POWs are not released while the fighting is still going on. Last time I checked, the Taliban were still kicking and fighting back. Age also has little bearing since in places like Afghanistan it is not uncommon to see 13 year olds toting around AK47s and shooting up their tribe's enemies.

Has anyone else noticed that Taino has become very upset with America since we got SH? I mean wow. He has really turned it up a notch.

When you've got a bad case of global impotence, Os, you tend to have to start going to extremes in hopes that you might be able to do something but sit on the sidelines and watch.

Once again, I've got to the "tired of the endless parade of clowns coming out of their one little car" point. Might as well fight fire with fire and quit trying to be rational:

Taino? Say what you want. You know, as well as I, that it won't do any good. We'll just do what we want, and you can stand with your pecker in your hand screaming bloody murder, but at the end of the day, you'll have a red dick and a sore throat. Why? Because you don't matter. Seriously. One voter in the US has more power than any single official in your govn't, and you can't do fuck-all about it. How you like them apples?

We can't be stopped. We do what we want, when we want, and how we want. If you don't think it's right, well boo-fucking-hoo, we do. We hold all the cards, we're in the driver's seat, you're a passenger on our demented little fun-bus, and we've quit giving a shit what you think.

So keep on barking little doggy. You're annoying, yet fun to kick around the yard with our friends from time to time.

(This post brought to you by a bad week at work, and slipping tolerance for the same impotent, yapping little shit over and over and over.)

GoFaustGo!

Perhaps George W. Bush should have made it a point to read the reports the CIA sent him. - Taino

Hahahahahahahaha.

How about this, and unlike your "news sources" mine can more easily be found on reputable news services. I can cut and paste the same as you and I decline posting where I got mine :P but go ahead, these are real.



Attacks on Americans during the Clinton Administration

January 25, 1993, Virginia, United States. A Pakistani gunman opened fire on Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) employees standing outside of the building. Two agents, Frank Darling and Bennett Lansing, were killed and three others wounded. The assailant was never caught and reportedly fled to Pakistan.

February 26, 1993, Cairo, Egypt. A bomb exploded inside a café in downtown Cairo killing three. Among the 18 wounded were two U.S. citizens. No one claimed responsibility for the attack.

February 26, 1993, New York, United States. A massive van bomb exploded in an underground parking garage below the World Trade Center in New York City, killing six and wounding 1,042. Four Islamist activists were responsible for the attack. Ramzi Ahmed Yousef (Right Photo), the operation's alleged mastermind, escaped but was later arrested in Pakistan and extradited to the United States. Abd al-Hakim Murad, another suspected conspirator, was arrested by local authorities in the Philippines and handed over to the United States. The two, along with two other terrorists, were tried in the U.S. and sentenced to 240 years.

April 14, 1993, Kuwait. The Iraqi intelligence service attempted to assassinate former U.S. President George Bush during a visit to Kuwait. In retaliation, the U.S. launched a cruise missile attack two months later on the Iraqi capital, Baghdad.

July 5, 1993, Southeast Turkey. In eight separate incidents, the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) kidnapped a total of 19 Western tourists traveling in southeastern Turkey. The hostages, including U.S. citizen Colin Patrick Starger, were released unharmed after spending several weeks in captivity.

March 8, 1995, Karachi, Pakistan. Two unidentified gunmen armed with AK-47 assault rifles opened fire on a U.S. Consulate van in Karachi, killing two U.S. diplomats, Jacqueline Keys Van Landingham and Gary C. Durell, and wounding a third, Mark McCloy.

April 9, 1995, Kfar Darom and Netzarim, Gaza Strip. Two suicide attacks were carried out within a few hours of each other in Jewish settlements in the Gaza Strip. In the first attack a suicide bomber crashed an explosive-rigged van into an Israeli bus in Netzarim, killing eight including U.S. citizen Alisa Flatow (Left Photo). Over 30 others were injured. In the second attack, a suicide bomber detonated a car bomb in the midst of a convoy of cars in Kfar Darom, injuring 12. The Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ) Shaqaqi Faction claimed responsibility for the attacks.

July 4, 1995, Kashmir, India. In Kashmir, a previously unknown militant group, Al-Faran, with suspected links to a Kashmiri separatist group in Pakistan, took hostage six tourists, including two U.S. citizens. They demanded the release of Muslim militants held in Indian prisons. One of the U.S. citizens escaped on July 8, while on August 13 the decapitated body of the Norwegian hostage was found along with a note stating that the other hostages also would be killed if the group's demands were not met. The Indian Government refused. Both Indian and American authorities believe the rest of the hostages were most likely killed in 1996 by their jailers.

August 1995, Istanbul, Turkey. A bombing of Istanbul's popular Taksim Square injured two U.S. citizens. This attack was part of a three-year-old attempt by the PKK to drive foreign tourists away from Turkey by striking at tourist sites.

August 21, 1995, Jerusalem, Israel. A bus bombing in Jerusalem by the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas) killed four, including American Joan Davenny, and wounded more than 100.

November 9, 1995, Algiers, Algeria. Islamic extremists set fire to a warehouse belonging to the U.S. Embassy, threatened the Algerian security guard because he was working for the United States, and demanded to know whether any U.S. citizens were present. The Armed Islamic Group (GIA) probably carried out the attacks. The group had threatened to strike other foreign targets and especially U.S. objectives in Algeria, and the attack's style was similar to past GIA operations against foreign facilities.

November 13, 1995, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. A car bomb exploded in the parking lot outside of the Riyadh headquarters of the Office of the Program Manager/Saudi Arabian National Guard, killing seven persons, five of them U.S. citizens, and wounding 42. The blast severely damaged the three-story building, which houses a U.S. military advisory group, and several neighboring office buildings. Three groups -- the Islamic Movement for Change, the Tigers of the Gulf, and the Combatant Partisans of God -- claimed responsibility for the attack.

February 25, 1996, Jerusalem, Israel. A suicide bomber blew up a commuter bus in Jerusalem, killing 26, including three U.S. citizens, and injuring 80 others, among them another three U.S. citizens. Hamas claimed responsibility for the bombing.

March 4, 1996, Tel Aviv, Israel. A suicide bomber detonated an explosive device outside the Dizengoff Center, Tel Aviv's largest shopping mall, killing 20 persons and injuring 75 others, including two U.S. citizens. Both Hamas and the Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for the bombing. May 13, 1996, Beit-El, West Bank. Arab gunmen opened fire on a hitchhiking stand near Beit El, wounding three Israelis and killing David Boim (Right Photo), 17, an American- Israeli from New York. No one claimed responsibility for the attack, although either the Islamic Jihad or Hamas are suspected.

June 9, 1996, Zekharya, West Bank. Yaron Ungar, an American-Israeli, and his Israeli wife were killed in a drive-by shooting near their West Bank home. The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine is suspected.

June 25, 1996, Dhahran, Saudi Arabia. A fuel truck carrying a bomb exploded outside the U.S. military's Khobar Towers housing facility in Dhahran, killing 19 U.S. military personnel and wounding 515 persons, including 240 U.S. personnel. Several groups claimed responsibility for the attack. In June 2001, a U.S. District Court in Alexandria, Virginia, identified Saudi Hizballah as the party responsible for the attack. The court indicated that the members of the organization, banned from Saudi Arabia, "frequently met and were trained in Lebanon, Syria, or Iran" with Libyan help.

August 17, 1996, Mapourdit, Sudan. Sudan People's Liberation Army (SPLA) rebels kidnapped six missionaries in Mapourdit, including a U.S citizen. The SPLA released the hostages on August 28.

November 1, 1996, Sudan. A breakaway group of the Sudanese People's Liberation Army (SPLA) kidnapped three workers of the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), including one U.S citizen. The rebels released the hostages on December 9 in exchange for ICRC supplies and a health survey of their camp.

December 3, 1996, Paris, France. A bomb exploded aboard a Paris subway train, killing four and injuring 86 persons, including a U.S. citizen. No one claimed responsibility for the attack, but Algerian extremists are suspected.

January 2, 1997, Major cities worldwide, United States. A series of letter bombs with Alexandria, Egypt postmarks were discovered at Al-Hayat newspaper bureaus in Washington, DC, New York, London, and Riyadh. Three similar devices, also postmarked in Egypt, were found at a prison facility in Leavenworth, Kansas. Bomb disposal experts defused all the devices, but one detonated at the Al-Hayat newspaper office in London, injuring two security guards and causing minor damage.

February 23, 1997, New York, United States. Ali Hassan Abu Kamal, a Palestinian teacher, opened fire on the 86th-floor observation deck of New York City's Empire State Building, killing killing a Danish national and wounding six others before shooting himself to death. A handwritten note carried by the gunman claimed this was a punishment attack against the "enemies of Palestine."

July 30, 1997, Jerusalem, Israel. Two bombs detonated in Jerusalem's Mahane Yehuda market, killing 15 persons, including a U.S. citizen and wounding 168 others, among them two U.S. citizens. The Izz-el-Din al-Qassam Brigades, Hamas' military wing, claimed responsibility for the attack.

October 30, 1997, Sanaa, Yemen. Al-Sha'if tribesmen kidnapped a U.S. businessman near Sanaa. The tribesmen sought the release of two fellow tribesmen who were arrested on smuggling charges and several public works projects they claim the government promised them. The hostage was released on November 27.

November 12, 1997, Karachi, Pakistan. Two unidentified gunmen shot to death four U.S. auditors from Union Texas Petroleum and their Pakistani driver as they drove away from the Sheraton Hotel in Karachi. Two groups claimed responsibility -- the Islamic Inqilabi Council, or Islamic Revolutionary Council and the Aimal Secret Committee, also known as the Aimal Khufia Action Committee.

November 25, 1997, Aden, Yemen. Yemenite tribesmen kidnapped a U.S citizen, two Italians, and two unspecified Westerners near Aden to protest the eviction of a tribe member from his home. The kidnappers released the five hostages on November 27.

April 19, 1998, Maon, Israel. Dov Driben, a 28-year-old American-Israeli farmer was killed by terrorists near the West Bank town of Maon. One of his assailants, Issa Debavseh, a member of Fatah Tanzim, was killed on November 7, 2001, by the IDF after being on their wanted list for the murder.

June 21, 1998, Beirut, Lebanon. Two hand-grenades were thrown at the U.S. Embassy in Beirut. No casualties were reported.

June 21, 1998, Beirut, Lebanon. Three rocket-propelled grenades attached to a crude detonator exploded near the U.S. Embassy compound in Beirut, causing no casualties and little damage. August 7, 1998, Nairobi, Kenya. A car bomb exploded at the rear entrance of the U.S. Embassy in Nairobi. The attack killed a total of 292, including 12 U.S. citizens, and injured over 5,000, among them six Americans. The perpetrators belonged to al-Qaida, Usama bin Ladin's network.

August 7, 1998, Dar es Sala'am, Tanzania. A car bomb exploded outside the U.S. Embassy in Dar es Sala'am, killing 11 and injuring 86. Osama bin Laden's organization al-Qaida claimed responsibility for the attack. Two suspects were arrested.

November 21, 1998, Teheran, Iran. Members of Fedayeen Islam, shouting anti-American slogans and wielding stones and iron rods, attacked a group of American tourists in Tehran. Some of the tourists suffered minor injuries from flying glass.

December 28, 1998, Mawdiyah, Yemen. Sixteen tourists--12 Britons, two Americans and two Australians--were taken hostage in the largest kidnapping in Yemen's recent history. The tourists were seized in the Abyan province (some 175 miles south of Sanaa the capital). One Briton and a Yemeni guide escaped, while the rest were taken to city of Mawdiyah. Four hostages were killed when troops closed in and two were wounded, including an American woman. The kidnappers, members of the Islamic Army of Aden-Abyan, an offshoot of Al-Jihad, had demanded the release from jail of their leader, Saleh Haidara al-Atwi.

October 31, 1999, Nantucket, Massachusetts, United States. EgyptAir Flight 990 crashed off the U.S. coast killing all 217 people on board, including 100 Americans. Although it is not precisely clear what happened, evidence indicated that an Egyptian pilot, Ahmed el-Habashy (Right Photo), crashed the plane for personal or political reasons.

November 4, 1999, Athens, Greece. A group protesting President Clinton's visit to Greece hid a gas bomb at an American car dealership in Athens. Two cars were destroyed and several others damaged. Anti-State Action claimed responsibility for the attack, but the November 17 group was also suspected.

November 12, 1999, Islamabad, Pakistan. Six rockets were fired at the U.S. Information Services cultural center and United Nations offices in Islamabad, injuring a Pakistani guard.

October 8, 2000, Nablus, West Bank. The bullet-ridden body of Hillel Lieberman, a U.S. citizen living in the Jewish settlement of Elon Moreh, was found at the entrance to the West Bank town of Nablus. Lieberman had headed there after hearing that Palestinians had desecrated the religious site, Joseph's Tomb. No organization claimed responsibility for the murder.

October 12, 2000, Aden Harbor, Yemen. A suicide squad rammed the warship the U.S.S. Cole with an explosives-laden boat killing 13 American sailors and injuring 33. The attack was likely by Osama bin Ladin's al-Qaida organization.

October 30, 2000, Jerusalem, Israel. Gunmen killed Eish Kodesh Gilmor, a 25-year-old American-Israeli on duty as a security guard at the National Insurance Institute in Jerusalem. The "Martyrs of the Al-Aqsa Intifada," a group linked to Fatah, claimed responsibility for the attack. Gilmor's family filed a suit in the U.S. District Court in Washington against the Palestinian Authority, the PLO, Chairman Yasser Arafat and members of Force 17, as being responsible for the attack.



9/11 wasn't the first but it sadly was the first terrorist attack done while we had a real president with the fucking balls to do something about it.

Zhen owned on that one. Sir I congratulate you and give you the score of a perfect 10.

Not good examples.

- John CLarke, an organizer of the Ontario Coalition Against Poverty (OCAP), was detained at American Border by immigration officals on his way to a speaking engagement at Michigan State University. A State Department agent drove in from Detroit and interrogated CLarke about his participation in anti-globalization protests, about whether he "opposed the ideology of the United States" and even about the whereabouts of Osama Bin Laden. The agent presented a State Department folder on OCAP that included the name of a man with whom CLark had stayed in Chicago, and leaflets from Clarke's previous speaking engagements in the U.S.
Ok.
This guy and his organization are pretty notorious.. He was arrested and convicted a few times for Inciting to Riot and Counslinh to Assault Police Personal. So basically he is a criminal. But thats not the worst part of this guy. What he and his organization do is run programs for the homeless.. fine no problem.. but Then he uses these services to gather these people and use them in Marches and Protests.
Kinda lame.
Plus.. Our Bill of Rights says Americans can express freedom of Speech.. not sure on how it stands on Canadians coming across the border to start Riots.

- A suburban New York judge asked Anissa Khoder, a U.S. citizen of lebanese descent, if she was "a terrorist" when she appeared in court over parking tickets.
Judges who preside over parking ticket courts arent exactally high on the totem pole. The World is full of stupid assholes, this is just one of them. 50 years ago he would have been asking Black men if they could Tap Dance.

- In May 2002 six french journalists were stopped at Los Angeles International Airport, interrogated and subjected to body searches. They were detained for more then a day and expelled from the United States (without offical reason) before they could reach their final destination: A video game trade show.
Well.. The French are assholes. Maybe they decided to be assholes to the Security personal there..
I know when I have worked the metal detector at the court.. People learn really quick not to play games or be dipshits.. I will pull out to the side, and take about 30 mins of your time with a through search.


- At a high school in Vermont, a uniformed police officer entered teacher Tom Treece's classroom at 1:30am to photograph a student art project that depicted "President Bush with duct tape over his mouth" and the caption, "Put your duct tape to good use. Shut your mouth". Treece was removed from teaching his class.
The officer was repremanded.. But he knew about this because he worked in the School.
www.rushlimbaugh.com/home...geFile.jpg (http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_050603/content/eib_extra.Par.0007.ImageFile.jpg)
people from the community said this
"It is unrealistic to expect that current world events would not be a topic of discussion among students or faculty," they wrote. "But it is quite another matter for a teacher to use taxpayer dollars (his salary, the school facility, and related resources) to proselytize his leftwing political rhetoric and anti-establishment rhetoric. Of particular concern is the lack of respect shown in this reference to the President of the United States as 'the idiot boy king.' We would advise the board and the administration to examine Mr. Treece's teaching practices and course materials. We would encourage parents and members of the community to acquaint themselves with these current activities of concern at SHS."


- A college student in North Carolina, A.J.Brown, was visited by two secret service agents who quesitoned her about her possession of "anti-American" material. Without inviting them in, Brown showed the agents what they came for: an anti-death-penalty poster showing Bush and a group of lynched bodies with the caption: "We hang on your every word".
This IS moronic.. I wish the Secret Service would find something more useful to do with their time.

- North Carolina Green Party activist Doug Stuber was detained and questioned while trying to fly to Prague, then told that no Greens were allowwed to fly that day. His interrogators showed him a document of the Justice Department that showed hthat Greens were likely terrorists, and the Secret Service took a mug shot from the family. Stuber was forced to turn back.
heres the whole article
www.refuseandresist.org/p...hp?aid=573 (http://www.refuseandresist.org/police_state/art.php?aid=573)
The problem is that all these people have Federal Arrest records, so they are flagged, then with the genious of Republicanism.. We give these lists to the Private Sector, who screens their own passanger lists and tells Airport Security who THEY deem a threat.

- CBS fired the producer of Hitler: The Raise of Evil for statements he made comparing the mood of America to that in Germany when Hitler ascended to power.
CBS has one over-riding goal.. to make money.. espousing some crack pot and insulting message during a time of war will most likely NOT make you money.

- And, a twelth grade teacher at English High School in Lynn, Massachusetts, was forced to stop showing Bowling for Columbine to her classes because the principals said the movie contains "anti-war messages".
Well, not all teachers are any good.
Was this teacher representing all sides and giving a balanced look? Bowling For Columbine is a tricky movie because it displays some scenes as "facts" when they are anything but. It is a poor choice to show in a classroom.
I love the movie.. but I would never show it if I were a teacher. Its too biased. For the same reason people mock John Wayne movies.

Seriously. One voter in the US has more power than any single official in your govn't, and you can't do fuck-all about it. How you like them apples?

Pure ownage..prove that wrong Taint:p

This IS moronic.. I wish the Secret Service would find something more useful to do with their time.The story is pretty vanilla. They knock on the door, the college kid goes "Oh, this?" and they say "Thanks for your time, we'll be on our way" and go home and fill out the case-closed paperwork. The only part I don't get is why Taino bothers to list it. It's the secret services job to investigate crackpots. 99% of the suspected crackpots they come in contact with are immediately dismissed as harmless. This is one of those 99%.

"[The US is] nothing but...killing people, bringing misery and lies all over the planet..." - Taino 2003

I saw a story about the Dutch paying 5$ to each Franch person who rapes a baby. I think the French are baby rapers and the Dutch use money to make sure babies get raped.


I DO NOT WANT TO START ANY FLAMES, THIS JUST MY THOUGHTS ON THIS MATTER, PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND IN ANY WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I bet any1 $20 Taino would suck Michael Moore's cock if the opportunity presented it's self.

The collective wit of you Yanks is almost too much to handle.

If you think that's impressive, you should see our magnificent collective wang. You could bludgeon whales to death.

/snicker

If you think that's impressive, you should see our magnificent collective wang. You could bludgeon whales to death.

Okay, that made me laugh. We're having a discussion about wangs in my guild, for some reason or another, and this just made me laugh.

Score!

My understanding is that intolerance of other opinions is not unique to the US or unique to either left or right.

This is very true, the best examples of this are communistic Russia under Stalin (left) and nazi Germany under Hitler (right).
Both are excellent examples what intolerance to other opinions can lead to.

CBS fired the producer of Hitler: The Raise of Evil for statements he made comparing the mood of America to that in Germany when Hitler ascended to power.

Unfortunately this is also true, please remember that Hitler's party was democratically elected.
The Myth that these things can not happen in a democracy is complete and utter nonsense. Yes Hitler lied to his people to get into power and then elevated fascism to a religion in order to get total control of the country. His main tactic was to enhance patriotism to a level where people would do everything and anything for their country, because they where the uber country in the world. He silenced the opposing press and everyone that stood up against him was against the good of the nation and called a traitor.

There is allot of truth in :

People that don't know their history are doomed to repeat it.


Unfortunately history lessons are not what they used to be.
Then off-course there are still large groups of people denying the holocaust ever happened.

John CLarke

And?...He was detained so what. I have been detained at the border too :'p

- A suburban New York judge asked Anissa Khoder, a U.S. citizen of lebanese descent, if she was "a terrorist" when she appeared in court over parking tickets.

Inappropriate moron judge....and your point? Hopefully she said no.

- In May 2002 six french journalists were stopped at Los Angeles International Airport, interrogated and subjected to body searches. They were detained for more then a day and expelled from the United States (without offical reason) before they could reach their final destination: A video game trade show.

"They were arrested in three sepa-rate incidents on May 10 and 11 as they arrived at LAX without proper visas." Nice try!!

- At a high school in Vermont, a uniformed police officer entered teacher Tom Treece's classroom at 1:30am to photograph a student art project that depicted "President Bush with duct tape over his mouth" and the caption, "Put your duct tape to good use. Shut your mouth". Treece was removed from teaching his class.

This guiy loves to use his classroom as a place to influence children to his political point of view. This is wrong no matter what his views are. He should be warned not to do it and removed if he continues. The officer was acting on his own accord to get money from Rush....i.e. he didn't recieve instructions from the FBI to to do this :'p

....don't have time to go through the rest but based on what you've put forth so far I don't expect to discover much different. Problem is Taino you assume too much to try to support your already set in stone conclusions. You don't look at either side of arguments or look at anything objectively. Your so busy condemning the US that you've lost any open mind that some of this stuff is rhetoric.

I don't like Bush either, but I look at thing objectively and make judgments not based on preconcieved conclusions. I like to hear both sides, then decide.

Anyone been to any book burnings lately?

The Jews had pieces of flare that the Nazi's made them wear.

Half of me wants to go at the yanks for violating human rights and the geneva convention over the guantanamo base issue...

The other half remembers that we have a Swede there and wants to go "keep him!"

All in all though, you're being fairly anal about violating international proceedings when it comes to POWs. Not that you recognize them as POWs. Or dare to transfer them to mainland soil, because then they'd be subject to domestic law instead of military, and thus blow the whole concept of walling them off to smithereens.

IMO they are POWs and the war is not over.

Mohammed Atta's Iraqi Connection
By Con Coughlin
London Telegraph | December 15, 2003


For anyone attempting to find evidence to justify the war in Iraq, the discovery of a document that directly links Mohammed Atta, the al-Qaeda mastermind of the September 11 attacks, with the Baghdad training camp of Abu Nidal, the infamous Palestinian terrorist, appears almost too good to be true.

Ever since four hijacked civilian jets devastated the United States' eastern seaboard on September 11, 2001, there have been any number of reports circulating Western intelligence agencies suggesting that Saddam Hussein's Iraq had close links to al-Qaeda.

Most of the claims relate to meetings between al-Qaeda and Iraqi intelligence to discuss co-operation on matters such as funding, training and equipment.

Prior to the discovery of the document published today by the Telegraph, the most controversial report related to the suggestion that Atta had met Ahmed Khalil Ibrahim Samir al-Ani, a senior Iraqi intelligence officer, in Prague in April 2001.

But while both President Bush and Tony Blair have dropped numerous hints that they believe there was a significant level of co-operation between Saddam and al-Qaeda, their respective intelligence agencies have actively sought to downplay the significance of the relationship, especially the suggestion that Saddam was in any way involved in the September 11 attacks.

To this end America's Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), with the backing of Britain's MI6, have poured scorn on Atta's Prague meeting.

However, the tantalising detail provided in the intelligence document uncovered by Iraq's interim government suggests that Atta's involvement with Iraqi intelligence may well have been far deeper than has hitherto been acknowledged.

Written in the neat, precise hand of Tahir Jalil Habbush al-Tikriti, the former head of the Iraqi Intelligence Service (IIS) and one of the few named in the US government's pack of cards of most-wanted Iraqis not to have been apprehended, the personal memo to Saddam is signed by Habbush in distinctive green ink.

Headed simply "Intelligence Items", and dated July 1, 2001, it is addressed: "To the President of the Ba'ath Revolution Party and President of the Republic, may God protect you."

The first paragraph states that "Mohammed Atta, an Egyptian national, came with Abu Ammer (an Arabic nom-de-guerre - his real identity is unknown) and we hosted him in Abu Nidal's house at al-Dora under our direct supervision.

"We arranged a work programme for him for three days with a team dedicated to working with him . . . He displayed extraordinary effort and showed a firm commitment to lead the team which will be responsible for attacking the targets that we have agreed to destroy."

There is nothing in the document that provides any clue to the identity of the "targets", although Iraqi officials say it is a coded reference to the September 11 attacks.

The second item contains a report of how Iraqi intelligence, helped by "a small team from the al-Qaeda organisation", arranged for an (unspecified) shipment from Niger to reach Baghdad by way of Libya and Syria.

Iraqi officials believe this is a reference to the controversial shipments of uranium ore Iraq acquired from Niger to aid Saddam in his efforts to develop an atom bomb, although there is no explicit reference in the document to this.

Habbush writes that the successful completion of the shipment was "the fruit of your excellent secret meeting with Bashir al-Asad (the Syrian president) on the Iraqi-Syrian border", and concludes: "May God protect you and save you to all Arab nations."

While it is almost impossible to ascertain whether or not the document is legitimate or a clever fake, Iraqi officials working for the interim government are convinced of its authenticity, even though they decline to reveal where and how they obtained it. "It is not important how we found it," said a senior Iraqi security official. "The important thing is that we did find it and the information it contains."

A leading member of Iraq's governing council, who asked not to be named, said he was convinced of the document's authenticity.

"There are people who are working with us who used to work with Habbush who are convinced that it is his handwriting and signature. We are uncovering evidence all the time of Saddam's dealings with al-Qaeda, and this document shows the extent of the old regime's involvement with the international terrorist network."

This is the second document published by this newspaper that appears to highlight Saddam's links with al-Qaeda. Earlier this year the Telegraph published details of another Iraqi intelligence document that indicated Saddam's regime was attempting to set up a meeting with Osama bin Laden, the al-Qaeda leader, who was then based in Sudan.

Intelligence experts point out that a memo such as that written by Habbush would of necessity be vague and short. "Trained intelligence officers hate putting anything down in writing," said one former CIA officer. "You never know where it might turn up."

Certainly the memo's detail concerning Mohammed Atta and Abu Nidal fits in with the known movements of the two terrorists in the summer of 2001. Abu Nidal, the renegade Palestinian terrorist responsible for a wave of outrages in the 1980s, such as the 1985 bomb attacks on Rome and Vienna airports, was based in Baghdad, under Saddam's personal protection, for most of his career.

Having briefly relocated to Libya, Abu Nidal returned to Baghdad at some point in early 2001. At the time it was assumed that Saddam had lured the Palestinian terrorist back to help the Iraqi leader plan a number of terrorist attacks aimed at destabilising American plans to remove him.

In particular, Saddam wanted Abu Nidal to revive his network of "sleeper cells" in Europe and the Middle East to carry out a new wave of attacks. During 2001 Abu Nidal lived in a number of houses in the Baghdad area, including a spacious home in the al-Dora district where he is reported to have met Atta.

The relationship between Abu Nidal and Saddam, however, quickly turned sour, mainly because - as the Telegraph reported at the time - the ageing Palestinian leader was reluctant to accede to Saddam's request to train al-Qaeda fighters in sophisticated terrorist techniques.

Abu Nidal was murdered in August 2001, although the Iraqis tried to claim that he had committed suicide. Habbush appeared at a hastily arranged press conference in Baghdad in an attempt to persuade the sceptical Arab media that Abu Nidal had taken his own life after Iraqi investigators had uncovered a plot to assassinate Saddam.

Although Western intelligence agencies have attempted to trace Atta's movements in the months preceding September 11, there remain several periods during which his precise whereabouts are unknown. Having moved to Florida from Hamburg in 2000, Atta is known to have made at least two trips from the US to Europe in 2001.

In early January he flew to Madrid for a few days. His next confirmed trip was to Zurich in early July. In between, American investigators have concluded from a detailed examination of Atta's credit cards and phone records, that he spent most of the spring and early summer of 2001 in Florida, interspersed by occasional domestic trips. The only confirmed sighting of Atta during this period, however, was on April 26 when he was pulled over for a traffic violation in Florida.

This traffic offence, taken with other evidence collated by FBI agents, is one of the reasons that CIA officials have discounted the report that Atta met an Iraqi intelligence officer in Prague earlier in the month (the Czech authorities claim Atta was in Prague on April 8) . Yesterday the New York Times reported that Ani, who was taken into US custody last July, had told American interrogators that he had not met Atta in Prague.

"The Prague meeting does not appear very convincing," said Lorenzo Vidino, a terrorism analyst at The Investigative Project, a non-profit organisation that investigates international terrorism, in Washington. "But even if that meeting did not take place you have to remember that Atta used a large number of aliases when he travelled. It is not inconceivable that Atta slipped out of the US undetected sometime in the first half of 2001."

The US Congressional report into the September 11 attacks states that Atta used 16 to 17 known aliases, although American intelligence experts concede that there may have been others.

It is entirely conceivable, then, that Atta secretly made his way to Baghdad to undertake training with Abu Nidal a few months before the September 11 attacks. But as long as Saddam and his senior intelligence operatives remain at large, it is impossible to assess just how much they knew about, and were involved in, the planning and execution of the September 11 atrocities.

Interesting.

Oh, btw. "Devasted our eastern seaboard?" Heh.