http://www.voltairenet.org/article160636.html

This one is interesting.

It seems obvious that at least part of our government had direct fore-knowledge of exactly what was going to happen. From the officials warned not to fly that day, to Cheney running the identical exercise that morning, to this guy's information, it's there's too much corroborating evidence to be coincidence.

I doubt we'll ever know the truth, but it's clear that at least a substantial portion of what we were told is a fabrication.

I didn't see anything damning there - certainly nothing that hasn't been poked apart on conspiracy sites before regarding the jet parts and the physics of the buildings. There are plenty of weirds surrounding 9/11, but this guys info seems largely unsubstantiated and vague.

What was he indicted for? He mentions repeatedly being harassed and sued, etc but I didn't really find anything about why he got 'chased out'. His story seems a bit unsubstantial, but interesting nonetheless.

The murder of his wife who committed suicide, apparently.

For those interested I found this link here http://www.eq2flames.com/everything-else-everything-else/47540-9-11-fema-videographer-ground-zero-goes-public.html where there is allot more discussion going on. Yes, if you aren't registered you'll get stupid ads, yes if you have adblock on it will not let you view the site. But, it's a good forum for real life discussion :D

For those interested I found this link here http://www.eq2flames.com/everything-else-everything-else/47540-9-11-fema-videographer-ground-zero-goes-public.html where there is allot more discussion going on. Yes, if you aren't registered you'll get stupid ads, yes if you have adblock on it will not let you view the site. But, it's a good forum for real life discussion :D

I want that two minutes back.

He's making a lot of accusations, but I've not seen any corroboration from anyone else. I would think that any number of FEMA employees, supposedly staged in New York City ahead of time, would have drawn local attention at the very least. Odd that there wasn't any such notice taken by either NY news sources or local residents.


I know if FEMA showed up in my vicinity with mobile command centers for no apparent reason, I would voice curiosity.

Add to this that if the government were ruthless enough to murder thousands of US citizens to provide a causus belli, assassinating this guy to shut him up would have been a no-brainer. Why is he still alive?


IMO he's probably trying to capitalize on the conspiracy bandwagon to make some bucks with his book...seven years after the event.There is big money in peddling "Truther" stories and obviously an incentive to fabricate and spread "information" to support those theories.

What the conspiracy theorists have never been able to justify, IMO, is why anyone would want to blow up a variety of US buildings and put a serious hit on the US economy just to give an excuse to go to war with a bunch of islamic militants in Afghanistan. A single attack would have been more than sufficient for that purpose and it would not be necessary to "implode" two Trade Center towers and building 7 or hit the Pentagon with a cruise missile to get the job done.

I love the irony of discrediting "conspiracy theorists" via conspiracy theories about them.

Is he not writing a book to sell?

Is he not wanted for murder in the US, meaning his personal US accounts are likely frozen? What's he doing for money in Argentina?

If he was at Ground Zero, how can he report about events at the Pentagon or NORAD any more reliably than people who were there?


Taken overall, the number of US citizens who would have to have been in on the conspiracy number in the hundreds if not thousands. FEMA, the FBI, the military, the FAA, the owners of the Trade Center, fire departments of New York and Washington DC, the coroners in Pennsylvania, New York City and Washington DC and others. None of them have publicly come forward to admit participation in anything suspicious to my knowledge. It would have to be the best disciplined conspiracy in US history.

So we have the word of a man wanted for murder and who is likely in need of money, weighed against the absence of corroborating witnesses, physical evidence and a believable motive.

I know who I'm betting on.

If it were the "best disciplined conspiracy in US history", we wouldn't be talking about it right now.

Sometimes, things are as they seem....sheeeshh

As official videographer for the U.S. government, Kurt Sonnenfeld was detailed to Ground Zero on September 11, 2001, where he spent one month filming 29 tapes

It took him one month to shoot 29 tapes? Tapes are 30 minutes each*, you'd expect him to shoot 2-3 tapes a day at least. He's a slacker!

Edit - tapes then were 30 minutes each. Yes I know they make 60 minute tapes now, but not for BetaSP, Digibeta, or DVCPro - whatever he was shooting on.

I've said this before - it wouldn't surprise me if there was more going on than we know about, possibly as simple as the government allowing the attacks to take place, if for no other precedent than that has been the method used in the past, and we have entered almost every war in our history under false pretenses.

That said, it's very difficult to believe that the same government who couldn't handle, say, Katrina, pulled off a conspiracy as detailed as some of these folks want to make us believe.

So we have the word of a man wanted for murder and who is likely in need of money, weighed against the absence of corroborating witnesses, physical evidence and a believable motive.


What? It states in the article that the murder charges were dropped, but he was left in custody for four additional months.

I guess I can't say for sure whether he's wanted for murder or not, but the article states that he is not.

That said, it's very difficult to believe that the same government who couldn't handle, say, Katrina, pulled off a conspiracy as detailed as some of these folks want to make us believe.

My problem with this common excuse is that it assumes everyone's working in concert, as a way of disproving any malfeasance. It only takes a few bad apples to "help" something like this happen and then allow everyone else to proceed as if it were a genuine surprise. The too-massive-conspiracy-to-contain defense is a bit of a strawman.

Cheney's actions that morning (http://www.scribd.com/doc/15869162/15-Peter-Dale-Scott-Why-Cheney-Must-Testify) alone are almost impossible to explain away. Even if you don't believe the myriad other irregularities are meaningful, as Fandros said: Sometimes, things are as they seem.

As Marshall McLuhan said, "Only puny secrets need protection. Big discoveries are protected by public incredulity." It is just impossible for us to accept that anyone in our government could be involved in something so evil. So, we'll automatically go to any length to disprove what's right in front of us, in an attempt to assuage the cognitive dissonance.

What? It states in the article that the murder charges were dropped, but he was left in custody for four additional months.

I guess I can't say for sure whether he's wanted for murder or not, but the article states that he is not.

Perhaps, but the article has some blatant incorrect information being touted as truth. For example, Sonnenfield claims Building 7 had only "minor injuries" when other photographs available to the public clearly show otherwise. In any case, the US has requested his extraditiion on *some* grounds as recently as 2008. Despite his claims to the contrary, it sure looks like he fled the US once he was free. It may very well be that further evidence against him was developed and he was at risk for re-arrest for murder and knew it.

Certainly if he really believed what he claims, his book would have been written much sooner than it was.

Making up your own conspiracies against a guy you've only read one article about...

.

My problem with this common excuse is that it assumes everyone's working in concert, as a way of disproving any malfeasance. It only takes a few bad apples to "help" something like this happen and then allow everyone else to proceed as if it were a genuine surprise. The too-massive-conspiracy-to-contain defense is a bit of a strawman.I don't doubt that something funny was going on, especially with Cheney's actions as you mentioned, but by comparing the events to something like Katrina - or take your pick of recent history government flubbed actions - I'm not inclined to believe that shady individuals faked four plane crashes, demo'd the buildings, and misled an investigation.

Cheney's actions that morning (http://www.scribd.com/doc/15869162/15-Peter-Dale-Scott-Why-Cheney-Must-Testify) alone are almost impossible to explain away. Even if you don't believe the myriad other irregularities are meaningful, as Fandros said: Sometimes, things are as they seem.

As Marshall McLuhan said, "Only puny secrets need protection. Big discoveries are protected by public incredulity." It is just impossible for us to accept that anyone in our government could be involved in something so evil. So, we'll automatically go to any length to disprove what's right in front of us, in an attempt to assuage the cognitive dissonance.

I disagree. We don't know Cheney's actions because various sources disagree on what they were, there being no cameras present. In any case, I fail to see how disagreement on the timing of Cheney's arrival at the PEOC has *any* bearing on his alleged culpability. The exact timing and sequence of events is rarely agreed upon for major calamities. Just look at the arguments over who ordered what and when during Katrina. There are any number of political reasons someone may embellish or understate a politician's role, usually tied to making this or that politician look like they knew what they were doing or covering up a bungle. I've seen others complain about Cheney having hidden in his bunker during the crisis (something he would not have done if he were aware of the full scope and limits of the attack).

I want that two minutes back.

/shrug more active than here when I made that post.

I would never expect you to care about another forum really :|

It took him one month to shoot 29 tapes? Tapes are 30 minutes each*, you'd expect him to shoot 2-3 tapes a day at least. He's a slacker!

Edit - tapes then were 30 minutes each. Yes I know they make 60 minute tapes now, but not for BetaSP, Digibeta, or DVCPro - whatever he was shooting on.

Hrmm I guess you didn't consider the set he was dealing with? I mean I'm sure crawling around in debris and stuff took a "little" bit of time. It's not like he just woke up every morning drove to the office and started shooting film.

Hrmm I guess you didn't consider the set he was dealing with? I mean I'm sure crawling around in debris and stuff took a "little" bit of time. It's not like he just woke up every morning drove to the office and started shooting film.

Documentary work is documenting the events, its not a "set". Even him working his way through debris would probably have merited capture. His job was to capture the reality of it, and I'm sure the reality was people working around the clock for the entire month he was there while he shot less than 30 minutes of footage per 24 hours. I've shot more footage of an elephant getting jerked off in a day than he was able to capture of something as complex as the World Trade Center wreckage. The reality probably was that he was at the location for 4-5 days over the course of a month to shoot such a small amount of footage.

Making up your own conspiracies against a guy you've only read one article about...

Not much of a conspiracy. The guy's wife died under suspicious circumstances, supposedly a suicide. He gets arrested (suspicion of murder) but is released after 4 months because the prosecution doesn't think they can get a conviction with the evidence at hand. Note that if the prosecution had been "100% sure of his innocence" based on the note and journal, he would not have been arrested in the first place. Also keep in mind this is all *before* he voices "doubts" about 9/11. So why would the government go after him more than a year after 9/11 but before he had voiced any suspicions? If the government (who just allegedly murdered 2800+ US citizens) wanted him out of the picture, why not fake *his* suicide? Why allow him to be set free when he was utterly in their power?

Next the guy (who had a security clearance and access to photos of a number of sensitive installations btw, not just Ground Zero) takes an "open ended vacation" in Argentina to "get away" from things, but has the foresight to request political asylum to protect himself against extradition. He fails to return to the US. Some time later the US does request his extradition.

Like I said, not much of a conspiracy, just a list of events that make me incredulous of his version of things. His claims just don't make sense, but he has a definite motive for making them if he is indeed worried he'll be extradited and convicted of murder.

I disagree. We don't know Cheney's actions because various sources disagree on what they were, there being no cameras present. In any case, I fail to see how disagreement on the timing of Cheney's arrival at the PEOC has *any* bearing on his alleged culpability. The exact timing and sequence of events is rarely agreed upon for major calamities. Just look at the arguments over who ordered what and when during Katrina. There are any number of political reasons someone may embellish or understate a politician's role, usually tied to making this or that politician look like they knew what they were doing or covering up a bungle. I've seen others complain about Cheney having hidden in his bunker during the crisis (something he would not have done if he were aware of the full scope and limits of the attack).

Secretary Mineta's testimony to the 9/11 Commission on 5/23/03 is not ambiguous at all.

/shrug more active than here when I made that post.

I would never expect you to care about another forum really :|

It was 50% "/facepalm", or quotes thereof. I felt like I was reading the comments on a YouTube video.

I didn't see anything damning there - certainly nothing that hasn't been poked apart on conspiracy sites before regarding the jet parts and the physics of the buildings. There are plenty of weirds surrounding 9/11, but this guys info seems largely unsubstantiated and vague.

This describes every 9/11 single conspiracy out there.

9/11 conspiracies are good for one thing: letting everyone else know how gullible or dumb you are.

Especially those dips that believe the official theory they passed off on us.