Taken from the Chicago Tribune (article by Kim Barker), an article was printed regarding a citizen of Afghanistan who was raised as Muslim, but after living abroad he had converted to Christianity. When this was disclosed upon his return to Afghanistan, he found himself under arrest with even his own family saying it could only be rectified by his repenting and returning to Islam, or by his death.

He has no lawyer, and even a jail worker was quoted saying "There is no need to see him. We will cut him into little pieces." Afghan Christians have no churches, and must worship in small groups or at embassies or military bases.
Islamic law requires the death penalty for anyone who leaves Islam for another religion.

The judge in an interview said that he usually takes two months to decide on cases, but because this case is so serious, he expected to have a hearing within the week to make a decision. Islamic rules against such things as the sale of alcohol, the opium trade, and prostitution are violated openly in the main cities with little uproar, but to leave Islam for Christianity apparently is such a heinous offense that his own father is saying "You cannot make anything of such a son. He is useless."

This is the religious culture we are dealing with and attempting to turn to our way of thinking. Unfortunately, I think we will find ourselves embroiled in an all-out religious war before we will see an honest, cooperative relationship between the Islamic countries and the west.

And so goes another argument in favor of separation of religion and government!

Glad we have had a positive impact on Afghanistan, they seem to have accepted the values of a free society. :eek:

Sad story, but not the only one :
I read that Algeria is about to vote/voted a law that punish with prison anyone trying to convert a muslim to another religion.

They don't need caricatures afterall.

Taken from the Chicago Tribune (article by Kim Barker), an article was printed regarding a citizen of Afghanistan who was raised as Muslim, but after living abroad he had converted to Christianity. When this was disclosed upon his return to Afghanistan, he found himself under arrest with even his own family saying it could only be rectified by his repenting and returning to Islam, or by his death.

He has no lawyer, and even a jail worker was quoted saying "There is no need to see him. We will cut him into little pieces." Afghan Christians have no churches, and must worship in small groups or at embassies or military bases.
Islamic law requires the death penalty for anyone who leaves Islam for another religion.

The judge in an interview said that he usually takes two months to decide on cases, but because this case is so serious, he expected to have a hearing within the week to make a decision. Islamic rules against such things as the sale of alcohol, the opium trade, and prostitution are violated openly in the main cities with little uproar, but to leave Islam for Christianity apparently is such a heinous offense that his own father is saying "You cannot make anything of such a son. He is useless."

This is the religious culture we are dealing with and attempting to turn to our way of thinking. Unfortunately, I think we will find ourselves embroiled in an all-out religious war before we will see an honest, cooperative relationship between the Islamic countries and the west.

You know I was watching Hildago night before last, and it was set in pre WWII Middle East.
1 of the things that kept coming up was the fact that Frank Hopkins (Viggo Mortensen (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001557/)) was an Infidel, and that Allah would not allow him to win the race. Every time he turned around he was being called inferior, not worthy, almost killed for being caught alone with a Muslim woman.
While I'm sure it was made up for the benefit of the audience, the site about Frank Hopkins doesn't mention anything about a love story. http://www.frankhopkins.com/biography.html
Some say he was a liar too.
http://www.thelongridersguild.com/hopkins.htm
The attitdue towards Infidels, however, seems to be on the mark.
1 of the biggest things about the story was that they Muslims only seemed to give him respect, after he beat them at thier own game playing by thier rules.
Is this what we will have to do to earn the respect of Muslims?

There is no way to gain the respect of the muslims unless you become one. Its that black and white...

If showing up in the most densly muslim populated country and donating millions and millions of $$$$ and sending tons and tons of food ...Indonesia last year didn't earn our respect I highly doubt anything will.

There is no way to gain the respect of the muslims unless you become one. Its that black and white...

If showing up in the most densly muslim populated country and donating millions and millions of $$$$ and sending tons and tons of food ...Indonesia last year didn't earn our respect I highly doubt anything will.

But I thought the US Caused that Tsunami, with underwater nuclear explosions aimed at killing Muslims in the most densly populated region they live in.
I know it to be true, I read it on the Internet.
http://www.vialls.com/subliminalsuggestion/tsunami.html *


















*Sarcasm

I disagree wholeheartedly.

Muslims can be split into different groups allot like Christians. Not all Christians are Baptists, not all Christians are Methodist etc.

You guys are making very broad generalizations about some idiots. I'm not saying that about this Afgan thing I'm talking specifically to Ibudin and Sixee.

My sister in law is French, but her roots are Moroccan. Her parents are Moroccan. Her family is Muslim and yet she married an American OMG OMG!!! off with her head!!!! right??? WRONG!

We flew as a family to Morocco for their wedding and met the extended family some 200 of her relatives from around the world came to the wedding and I must tell you I have never felt more included and part of a family than any other time in my life. We were totally accepted even my Mom who can't speak French or Moroccan Arabic (which is different from the normal Arabic).

It was a very traditional ceremony in that it lasted a week. Mimi (my sis in law) was painted head to toe in Henna. My brother wore traditional garb, even rode a horse up the street while Mimi was carried in a gilded cage on the shoulders of her brothers and uncles to her Grandmother/Grandfather's house where my brother had to ask to enter. On the roof they had slautered a calf and left it drip for hours and then prepared it. The ceremony lasted from 5pm until 8am and it was entre' after entre' three different bands, and Bobby and Mimi changed their attire 7x through out the night.

All the festivities leading up to the wedding were pretty spiffy as well. Which included a huge gathering of us visiting relatives houses and having parties and being given gifts.

These people were and are Muslim. They are not what the media makes them out to be. And while Mimi has converted to Christianity her family has not shunned her, she did so without my brother asking her to. B/C he himself is not really a religious or church going person. But... she still has her mini koran that her grandfather gave her on her first trip to Morocco when she was a child.

I recently found my CDs of the wedding pictures. I shall post a few to relate how big the ceremony was.

Ignorance is 99% of being a bigot.

Posting links cause they're too big and I don't have time to scale them :o

http://userweb.suscom.net/~kbunn/bob.jpg (my brother)

http://userweb.suscom.net/~kbunn/cage.jpg (mimi)

http://userweb.suscom.net/~kbunn/dancing.jpg (bunch of people dancing)

I disagree wholeheartedly.

Muslims can be split into different groups allot like Christians. Not all Christians are Baptists, not all Christians are Methodist etc.

You guys are making very broad generalizations about some idiots. I'm not saying that about this Afgan thing I'm talking specifically to Ibudin and Sixee.

My sister in law is French, but her roots are Moroccan. Her parents are Moroccan. Her family is Muslim and yet she married an American OMG OMG!!! off with her head!!!! right??? WRONG!

We flew as a family to Morocco for their wedding and met the extended family some 200 of her relatives from around the world came to the wedding and I must tell you I have never felt more included and part of a family than any other time in my life. We were totally accepted even my Mom who can't speak French or Moroccan Arabic (which is different from the normal Arabic).

It was a very traditional ceremony in that it lasted a week. Mimi (my sis in law) was painted head to toe in Henna. My brother wore traditional garb, even rode a horse up the street while Mimi was carried in a gilded cage on the shoulders of her brothers and uncles to her Grandmother/Grandfather's house where my brother had to ask to enter. On the roof they had slautered a calf and left it drip for hours and then prepared it. The ceremony lasted from 5pm until 8am and it was entre' after entre' three different bands, and Bobby and Mimi changed their attire 7x through out the night.

All the festivities leading up to the wedding were pretty spiffy as well. Which included a huge gathering of us visiting relatives houses and having parties and being given gifts.

These people were and are Muslim. They are not what the media makes them out to be. And while Mimi has converted to Christianity her family has not shunned her, she did so without my brother asking her to. B/C he himself is not really a religious or church going person. But... she still has her mini koran that her grandfather gave her on her first trip to Morocco when she was a child.

I recently found my CDs of the wedding pictures. I shall post a few to relate how big the ceremony was.

Ignorance is 99% of being a bigot.

Check out that Mini Koran, I'm sure there's a Bomb in it somewhere. :eek:
Fild, you should know that 80% of what I say is to make people see things from a different viewpoint.
Some people on this board seem to think this is actually how I feel or believe.
Nothing could be farther from the truth.
I will say this, however.
Our society is set up in such a fashion, that when someone kills in the name of God, they are quickly apprehended, to keep him from "spreading the Word"
In the Middle East, when someone kills in the name of Allah, the majority seem to duck and cover, trying not to get caught in the line of fire.
I'm not saying they aren't trying, but most people over there have been so put upon for so long, that self-preservation overrides the basic instinct to act against the loonies.
So what's the answer?

Here is a writeup (http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=1744148&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312) on Abdul Rahman (the sentenced convert) and his situation.

I would have to agree with Fildean here, and I think the heart of the issue is the power given to various groups. Being a strong believer of one religion myself, and having come to respect a number of other religions, I personally think the biggest failing of any religion is when it gains too much power. The mindset of a middle east country is so different from western nations, and radical groups are fighting for power in each of those countries. Probably the biggest problem with our interference in the Middle East is the fact that our governemnts (US, Western Europe) don't fully understand that mindset. You can't pull off a quick invasion and expect everything to change just because democracy worked across the ocean.

The major failing of various religions seems to be tied to power. Christianity may has one of the more visible faces of failure - going from a religion whos tenants claim peace and love to things like the Inquisition or White Power groups. Scary stuff.

Our society is set up in such a fashion, that when someone kills in the name of God, they are quickly apprehended, to keep him from "spreading the Word"

I'd say him being quickly arrested has less to do with him 'spreading the word' and more to do with the fact that he killed someone.

And you really don't like that Frank Hopkins fellow do you?

I was speaking Faciously about him "Spreading the Word".
I was equating his killing with following what he though God was telling him to do by converting people.
It's called Sarcasm.