Me and swifton were talking about this and I have decided to see if there would be enough people who would come.

Same basic open raid rules would apply. No in fighting or guildbashing or any of that. Only people from experienced raid guilds would be welcome.

These raid would take place during off hours.

If anyone would like to get something like this started shoot me a tell in game or post here. I want to get a list of people to show Swifton we have enough to get a little private section on the aor boards.

Xregg

P.S. Swifton can not and will not lead any of these raids :) so don't get nerved up aor people ;)

Eplanes = guild terrain. I'll not help.

Only people from experienced raid guilds would be welcome.

So only guilds that are actively pursuing mobs in EP are welcome, do you really think they want their raid day targets to be taken down by non-guildies? AOR worked because it allowed people in "lesser" guilds to participate at a level they were not previously capable of seeing. I fail to see how this would ever work. Good luck though Xregg

It has nothing to do with competing with guilds and everything to do with " hey there is a minni up in fire at lunch time on sat. Lets go kill it"

Now with the new expansion coming up in less than two weeks. You will see eplanes with more and more minnis staying up.

It would just be old friends from different guilds coming together to have some fun on weekends and off hours.

I already have small list of people who will come. And its been an hour since i posted it so people are interested.


Xregg

negatory

When there's a mini up in fire i just go kill it. ;p

Reparm should humble your small list of people real quick.

Only people from experienced raid guilds would be welcome.

And pray, who gets to define what constitutes an 'experienced raiding guild', sir? EP level? Vex Thal level? NToV level? What gives with the elitist attitude now that AoR participants are starting to break the EP level? This strikes me as being against the entire AoR concept. Take a good look at the folks who are flagged for Sol Ro now over on AoR, and, when you can find them, the tags...

Motivation and competence aren't the exclusive province of folks with 'raiding guild' tags (nor are all folks with 'raiding guild' tags particularly motivated or competent, based on three years of highly unscientific sampling... ;) ).

Sincerely,
Nydia Ywalmoriel
Autonomous Collective

If you want gear, join a guild that can kill the mob itself and earn enough dkp/respect/suck enough wang to get the loot. I agreed to lead open raids to get people flags so they could have access to zones, not to get them loot.

Frankly I'm a little miffed that Swifton would even consider something like this when he knows my stance on the issue.

I seen this coming a long time ago when AOR came about!

I think by named you mean something like the gator in POE or Pyronis in POF?

I personally wouldn't do it for the fact people with in my own guild need drops off those mobs. I wish you much luck though and if I was guildless/elementally flagged id already of been trying this a while ago.


Ibudin

Swifton has nothing to do with it first of all.

Most of the people who have agreed to come are old CB who dont have much to do these days. You remember them right? Those people you spent months raiding with . Laughing with. Talking with. People who you once called friends.

Since when did this game stop being fun and become a buisness for you guys? So what if some people wanna kill some shit minnis in the planes. You dont think there is enough to go around? What about when the new expansion comes? Your still gonna think that eplanes minnis should be for guilds only?

If you dont like the idea thats cool I respect that. If you do shoot me a tell . I have about 20 names so far of elemental flagged and geared people who would be into it. I figure about 20 more and we might be good to go.

Email me at tattooman9@yahoo.com if interested


Xregg

Ugh... I mean it... Ugh.

>shrug<

No different that a LNC going and killing whatever is up..
I think its a good idea for people.. and dont see the harm in it. The spawn times in the E planes are so close together that are you really depriving anyone of anything?

Besides.. in a way, this could be a help to the guilds in E planes and above. A major block in progression is in back gearing people and getting all your people in the the gear they want before you move on and start concentrating on alternate targets..
With this, not only could you give people who normally wouldnt have access to raid level encounters in E planes, but you would give people in EP guilds another outlet to get those pieces of gear they wanted without dragging their entire guild back to get it.
Seriously, after killing PoFire Minis 400x, what guild leader wants to farm them more?
This can only aid guilds imo. Plus it opens the planes to others. Win/win situation afaik.

This is how things are done, cooperation with each other.. every one gives a little and gets a little. And this is a matter of time.. so why not now?

I disagree with ya LL.

PoP is craming every guild into a close ended pipe. The end being PoTime of course, and the way things are setup its just going to get uglier. Already 3 guilds in Time now, add another what 4 EP guilds, all needing something to kill. At any given time 6 guilds are looking for EP targets to kill so their raid force has something to do that night. LDoN offers some help but 36 people limit sucks for guilds who had to build up their roster to be able to do things like get into EP/Time.

Gates of Discord promises to give some release to this situation, but the number of guilds who will be needing those targets will only go up. Its going to be a long as time before PoP turns into NToV (the now ex-endgame raid spot)

So you really think killing 2-3 minnis on a sat afternoon would make that much of a dent in the top guilds incoming gear ?

When the new expansion comes do you really think the top 3 guilds are gonna care about fire mobs?

So this is a bad thing because you think people might get loot besides your own circle of friends who wear the same tag? Its really no big deal if 6 pieces of loot go to 6 different people from different guilds on a sat or Sunday. It wont even be missed. Its a drop in the bucket if you really think about it.

Ive been an outspoken person all thru my playing time of eq. Ive made some great friends and some great enemies. I always played hard and helped anyone whoever asked me for anything. Including you Greystone before you even thought of joining an uber guild. A person in my situation has no guild due to old one breaking up. Cant get into a new guild due to some folks not liking me. I wanna raid and i want to do it with good people and old friends.

So before ya start thinking of pixels getting into the wrong hands or going to anyone who doest wear a tag think about how long we have been friends and how at the very least you could not even say a thing instead of bashing the idea.

Oh by the way does any old cb people have the list of emails that were posted after we broke up?


Xregg

Well so far the loot in GoD is nothing to talk about. Of course Devs are letting us kill the hard mobs but not letting us see the loot. 8(

I think even with GoD people will still be in Time for a long time.

Chances are if a mini is up it's because it's not worth doing (All the Earth/Air mini's, the one near the zone in water) or because the only guilds I'd even want to do this with are raiding already.

If you do this, it will hurt a few guilds, but I feel its nothing different than AOR as far as overall server impact goes IMO.
I wish you the best of luck.

There is a ton of shit that Im sure goes undone.. rapid respawn on Fire minis.. Minis in Air that nobody probably does.. Earth shit..
Besides.. Components for Trade items are gotten though raids, guilds tend to control those pretty tightly.. Im sure some tradeskillers would like to get components to sell for their own profit, or outfit their own twinks..
So many reasons...

This has never been a rotation or "I called that target it's mine later today" type of server.

If it's up, and you can muster the forces to kill it.

Feel free to do it.

I can understand the desire to raid, really I can.

Fandros

Fandros shoot me a tell in game or email me at tattooman9@yahoo.com I'll tell you what people are interested in doing it and you can decide for yourself if you would like to come in your spare time.


Xregg

Enjoy killing Tantisala and Batlador a bunch :>

With four US, two Euro and one Asian guild in the elementals now, you're not going to see anything else up "at lunchtime on Saturday" with any sort of regularity. Anything that will be up during off-hours for the US guilds is likely going to fall in the raid hours of LS or Turul or AroJPN, and if it's easy enough for 20-30 people to take it down, I don't see why they wouldn't.

Even assuming EW and IVM completely forget the elementals after GoD (unlikely, at least not for a few weeks/months depending on how long it takes to get to the candyland zone there), you've still got several more guilds pushing at the elemental entry barrier. The "easy, off hour" targets will be the first things they go after.

The more people who move into the E's and out of the lower tiers the better I say. =)

KAd

Xregg, dude i wasn't bashing the idea. Have fun at it, hope you guys kill stuff.

I was just referring to LL's comments. Simply stating that there is a limited amount of raid content and the amount of people wanting to kill it will only increase.

Tho I don't see it being wrong I myself would be unlikely to join in raiding the elemental planes.

I think my blood has spilled on about every square inch of every plane.

And until I decide on what I'm going to do for a home I plan on filling up my AA bank.

Good luck tho X, hell gimme a yell sometime if you want to exp.

Fandros

If you want to go ahead and fill this kinda thing up, all the more power to you.

Btw, all my friends from Casus have either quit or are in EW or WC. Doubt any of them would really benefit from this. 8/

>Even assuming EW and IVM completely forget the elementals after GoD

Heh, the faster we forget about the elementals the better.

Well the list of people has grown to 30 and counting .

I also want people to know that any elemental flagged alts are welcome. Shoot me a tell or email with your mains name and ill get in touch with you.


Xregg

Not bashing the idea, just simply stating that I dont think most experienced EP guilds are gonna be real big on the idea. I could be wrong though

Actually i'd say you'd be pretty hard pressed to find much of anything up now cept for the shit ass charm birds / druav in fire and blahblahblah the wise in water. Oh..and dust ring in air.....ugh...dust...ugh..

I don't usually agree with Brel but he has a point. Apart from Charm birds , Druav, Onfassa the Wise, and Tantisala the most you guys can really hope for is Air Avatars maybe a few Earth rings....just about everything else is always going to be down now.

Urge
:hat

I think the idea is to form a fast quick hitting instant raid type thing.. Not a prime time raiding group.. I may be wrong.

Like on a server reset, or weird day-time pop.. there is a pool of people from several different guilds who may be on. Raise 15, 20, 25 people and hit what ya can. Whereas, EW may have 11 people on, IvM may have 8, SoT may have 6, RiP may have 9.. some of those from each may have people who want to raid this shit, then add the independants and people with boxes and what you have is a Raid sized force that can put a significant dent in some content. Even before Turul and LS get going...
And isnt that the real goal here? Sad Euro Faces...

Its possible.. its gonna take some homework and some good planning.. buts definitly possible.

PHEAR TEH T1ME Z00NE ADV4/\/TAG3!!1!

The thing some of you newer folks to the EP's are missing is that critters don't always spawn on prime time.

As L2 says, if the coalition of folks primes themselves and keeps informed they very well could pick up a few targets here and there.

The more L2 talks about it the more I'm becoming intriqued myself.

One more ride L2?

Fandros

It's been my experience that about 40% of those 'willing to do' something will actually do it.

And considering most of the shit maybe save Pyronis and that one shitty mob near the Water zone in, you're gonna be hard pressed to find people willing to do that.

Especially with GoD on the horizon when people will be farming those zones looking for xploits.

who would of guessed the zerg crew would of headed past e-planes when thier mission plan was just to the e-planes? /meh go figure

Whoa Liper Whoa!

This has NOTHING to do with the people who play for aor.

This is a totally separate thing going on. Which would be more of a bunch of friends rather than having anyone come who wants.

I respect your experience Vhex. I respect you as a player and for what you have done for flagging lots of people. Ive even respected you enough to argue your re app to CB till i was blue in the face. It bums me out to know that you wouldn't come to one of these raids.

There would be no zerg. Hell I dont even know if we could muster up enough people to raid let alone zerg but when you have people supporting the idea like L2 and Fandros (im praying to god that he wants in) there is a chance it could take off. On top of that you add all the people who have agreed to come and it would be like a best of the best on this server playing together in their spare time. I wish i could list all the names but it wouldn't be fair to those people. There really are top of the line pullers, tanks, healers, slowers and dam dealers that want to come.

This would be a great way to gear up your alts or fill in any spots you need filled in to your main setup. Say we are on a raid and your main wins a piece of loot. Want it to go to your alt? Camp him outside the zone and let him have it. Thats what this is all about filling in pieces of your gear and running with your friends. Want trade skill items? Well here is your chance to get them.

Nothing is set in stone. It could go either way. It could take off like wild fire than again it could crash and burn and never get off the ground. Ill be the first to admit the failure. At the very least I can say we tried.


Xregg

Sounds fine and sounds fun. Just observe all the proper rules of engagement (as in don't train people and frog etc etc). Please respect the wishes of other guilds, though. Legit guilds work hard to get to Elementals. As much as AoR accomplishes, you all are NOT a legit guild, thus, have less accountability on a leadership level. Its paramount that you all be respectful there or guilds may bar their members from participation in what you all do due to the fact that the burden of blame in the event of a mishap is going to fall on all those present at an AoR event.

last I checked

Me and swifton were talking about this and I have decided to see if there would be enough people who would come.

e-planes are crowded enough from what I understand, gear whoring I doubt will be very supported from other guilds and thier members.

What I find mystifying and somewhat amusing about this proposition is that Xregg has stated twice, clearly, that this would *not* be a truly open or AoR-associated event (and in such a tone that indicates that he prefers not to be associated with the 'unwashed masses' of AoR participants, elementally flagged or not), and yet is not, to my knowledge, in an Elemental planes guild himself, which begs the question:

To whom is your call to arms directed, sir? Are you asking for folks currently in guilds raiding the Elementals to form an 'off hours' coalition? The proponderance of the evidence would seem to suggest that the folks who are currently e-planes as guilds would rather farm their own goodies, but good luck with if that's where you're going. If you're looking for freelancers, what's with the attitude towards AoR folks, especially since you're asking Swifton to host a forum as advertising for you? My observation thus far is that the folks who are up there who aren't in eplanes guilds are a mixed bag of raiding guild dropouts, folks whose guilds aren't raiding PoP as a priority but who have picked up raids with other guilds, and a few independents...

If I am deciphering your posts correctly, you don't want to invite AoR folks, yet want to use a section on that board for advertising. I'm not trying to bust your ass, but correct me if I'm wrong here, please?

Regards,
Nydia Ywalmoriel
Autonomous Collective

I dont think thats the case Nydia.

The AOR for its own reasons has to do certain things to maintain coalitions. Agreements, deals, rules, precedents, tradition, ect made by Swifton or other AOR representatives would not apply to this. I think Xregg respects what the AOR has done... how could you not, and most likely, is inspired by what they have done.
But this is seperate, and should not be seen as affiliated.

Will it be open? Yes, im sure nobody will be turned down.
Why would E Plane guilded people want to do this?
Easy. I can think of several reasons.
A way around constrictive DKP
A way to advance character without belonging to a guild
A way to outfit secondary Flagged characters.
A way for people who have taken some time off to catch up a little faster.


Fanny.. Anytime.. anywhere.

Dear Lleuaric:

Thanks for the clear and concise reply. I was a bit confused by what appeared to be very contradictory messages in Xregg's posts. Best of luck with the endeavor, and if Faervas ever manages to catch a Saryrn/KOS hit, perhaps we'll be contacting y'all sometime...

Regards,
Nydia

First of all Nvidia, or whatever your name is, I come from a guild called Casus Belli.


Second of all this post wasnt made for you to weigh evidence or decipher code. Actually there is really no need for you to even post anything here. Its not a nag or an argument. Chances are your probably not E flagged so it really has NOTHING to do with you at all.

There is no attitude for Aor. I think they have done a great job and have done some amazing things. We just don't want a channel filled with 200 people . If this idea gets going id like to see no more than 40-50 people in the channel at once.

Aor folks would be welcome once they get flagged and have shown themselves to be raiders who are on the money. We want the numbers small is all no need tot take offense.

As far as you thinking that none of the top guilds would be interested you couldn't be more wrong.

So far its just in the idea stage and the collecting of names to see who will play stage. Nothing is set in stone. This idea may or may not get going I've said that about 5 times already.


Xregg

>A way around constrictive DKP

Of course, most guilds that have constrictive DKP forbid members from participating in nonguild called raids on things like that though or they may charge you the DKP anyways.

Anyways, I'd expect a lot of guilds would frown on people hitting what would normally be a primary guild target without the guild. Some even care about hitting things like Seru still.

Have some love for the aussies and get out of low tier PoP! gogo AOR elemental?

Honestly, there is really no way anyone can stop a group of multi-guilded people from raiding a target. Do you really think that if 30-40 EF peeps show up in PoF to take a mini down that one of the 3 PoTime flagged guilds would care?

Speaking of PoTime.....That zone is sooo restrictive on the number of people alowed inside, it ain't even funny. Go to Afterlife's archived news. You can't even get one full guild in there. What do you think the rest of the guild would rather do? Grind out another AA or 2 to add to the 300-400+ they already have? Or go kill a mini in the EP's to maybe get a small upgrade for themselves or thier friends who didn't make into the top end guilds.

Easy choice for me.

Dear Xregg:

I am aware of your former (perhaps current, I run perpetually /shownames 1 now so as not to be bothered with guild tags these days :) ) guild affiliation. My question was whether you were wanting folks *only* from guilds who are currently elementally-planes active, which seemed kind of odd to me, considering (and not to belabor a potentially sore point here):

1) Casus Belli no longer exists (at least as a raiding guild)
2) Casus Belli never completed Elemental flagging as a guild prior to its demise.

It's common knowledge that a big part of the raison d'etre for AoR was to enable folks who had been 'orphaned' by the demise of CB and Exiled Alliance to finish their elemental flagging and give them the opportunity (if they wished) to app the Elemental guilds. I'm really glad that it has worked out so well for so many, including folks (like myself) who never imagined that they would get more than a handful of flags done. I posted because if all goes well, I and a sizable number of 'first generation' folks who have aggressively pursued most of our flagging via AoR will be EP flagged shortly, and wanted to clarify if such folks would be welcome to your proposed turkey-shoot regardless of their guild affiliation (or lack thereof). If this is so, then I am glad to hear it, and good luck with your endeavor...

Sincerely,
Nydia Ywalmoriel
Autonomous Collective

CB had a full raid force flagged for elementals. We were working on Fenin when we broke up.



Xregg

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>2) Casus Belli never completed Elemental flagging as a guild prior to its demise.<hr></blockquote>

Sorry....wrong.

CB was a EF raid guild for a LONG time. We didn't complete any of the 4 mobs required for PoTime, although we came DAMN close twice. Alot of us even got more than 1-2 pieces of elemental armor.

CB folded because the current officers had enough, and the "new" officers didn't want the responsibility of leading a high end guild.

I think what Xregg is getting at is:

1) He wants to take down EF targets.

2) He wants to raid with his old friends again.

3) Would rather NOT have to VF in 30+ peeps with only 18 or so EF people.

4) Have some fun doing mini bosses that upper level guilds pretty much just plow through just to get to the zone's boss mob.

5) Provide EF loot to people who don't have top tier guild access.

Hell, I would give the guy a friggin medal if he can pull off one success win without 50+ peeps bitching at him because he didn't VF em in.

Don't get me wrong Xregg. You wanna get a bunch of friends together and need help killing something, I'll sit there and soak xp, random on loot and be afk with the best of them.

I'm just not so keen on grouping with complete asshole strangers from other guilds to get them and their twinks loot. You want flags? I'll help you get flags. It's retarded that Verant restricts access to the non-end-game zone.

But if you want elemental greaves and that shitty algae ring for your bst twink, then go app to an elemental guild, or heaven forbid app to a non-elemental guild and help them rise up.

>Speaking of PoTime.....That zone is sooo restrictive on the number of people alowed inside, it ain't even funny. Go to Afterlife's archived news.

Since when is 72 people restrictive?

How many time flagged characters are on this server?

I bet it is a hell of alot more than 72. =P

>How many time flagged characters are on this server?

The number doesn't really matter unless they are all in one guild. If you have a huge number of people sitting out of Time because of the limit, well.. not sure what to tell you really. Most guilds don't have that problem though.

Well, what if your one of the ones in your guild who is stuck outside of time? Why not go join a pick up raid in the EP's? If that character is E-flagged you will atleast know he or she has done the encounters to get there, and has some idea on how to raid. Might as well kill some time somewhere. I don't see the harm in Xregg's idea.

Why bother even being in a guild? Just do pick up raids.

There is definatly room for another high e. nd guild on this server. When I first came to this server the sky was the limit on guilds to join. Now the choices seem to be getting more and more narrow.

Xregg. If you wanna raid EP form a guild for it. Open raiding has its place. But not in the EP.

I personally AOR's days are numbered. What happens once AOR beats RZ and Sol Ro? Are people going to be happy with just their flags? After that EP competition is going to be a lot more fierce.

Had an epiphany, why not just start your own guild, if you want to do this to "be with friends"

EW isn't going to even touch PoP aside from the weekly time clearing once GoD is out.

As far as I see it you may have a chance to do this once GoD is out if the guilds leave elem to try GoD but well... The hardest at the moment in game are ldon raids and they are seriously easy compared to GoD stuff so guilds will have to farm elem/time quite a bit to do hard stuff in GoD.

Once thing you guys forgot tho is that once the new expansion is out it will make elem/time even more trivial due to the AA ( warrior aa that add + 500hp total etc).

After last night there was 1 mob left up in all of the elemental planes. And thats with only SoT, Landslide, and RIP farming these areas (and IvM on occasion). Add the Asian guilds to the mix, and not only will these "pickup raids" be taking away from your own guild's raid targets, you'll have to physically race the Asians much like guilds used to race to Rumblecrush or Severilious or Phinny in days of old. All 3 major timezones will be represented very shortly, and the ammount of elemental minis that stay up is ... well ... non existant.

Aye Kinu that's what I was thinking.

But the doubters forget guilds move on when a new raid expansion comes out.

Fandros

When the FRO trigger mob up, kill those minis for loots :P

I find it odd that when xregg wants to take down EP targets (of some sort or another), the EP guilds get their panties in a bunch because they don't want their spawns taken... but when AoR takes down targets the non-EP guilds contest for, no one complains =/

Dwurin
65 Cleric
Fellowship of Dragons

Ah Dwurin, I'm not representing my guild in any fashion, but as many of my guildmates may tell you that I was very much against AoR at the get go as well :)

That reason is easy to understand. Last monday sot did coirnav, bertox, agnarr, carpin cycle and a poe ring. If AOR was not around you'd see stuff like that happen ALL the time. The lower tear raid targets are too easy once you farm VT/Elementals.

Aor actually gives guilds like fod/prism better chances for loot.

I find it odd that when xregg wants to take down EP targets (of some sort or another), the EP guilds get their panties in a bunch because they don't want their spawns taken... but when AoR takes down targets the non-EP guilds contest for, no one complains =/


Quite a few of us don't particularly like AoR for that exact reason, regardless of whether we were elemental or not when it kicked off.

It's extremely difficult now for a pre-elemental guild to find flag events up consistently enough to allow them to to advance *as a guild* as opposed to as individuals. Hell, even planning backflagging is damn near impossible because someone is ALWAYS killing or failing at Agnarr and the Honor trials (for instance).

As with AoR, even those of us that don't like the idea of 40 random people getting together to gank Pyronis at 4am don't see anything we can (or should) do to interfere, but the lack of protest isn't tacit approval.

>I find it odd that when xregg wants to take down EP targets (of some sort or another), the EP guilds get their panties in a bunch because they don't want their spawns taken

I think you misunderstand the nature of the complaint. You were specifically asking for people from EP guilds to come help take targets that would also be targets their guilds would be after. I don't think there are any EP+ guilds that don't do targets in the EPs on a regular basis with the exception of EW (woot! more alt loots!) and perhaps IvM (not sure if they do much with EPs or not). This means that people in those guilds who would be doing this kind of thing would be helping take targets their guild could use that might stay up until their guild can take them otherwise.

Personally, I don't care much, not like I need anything out the EPs.

This means that people in those guilds who would be doing this kind of thing would be helping take targets their guild could use that might stay up until their guild can take them otherwise.

Best point against it.

Dont forget in less than 2 weeks a new high end raiding expansion is coming with 10 instanced zones.


Xregg

>Dont forget in less than 2 weeks a new high end raiding expansion is coming with 10 instanced zones

Doesn't really have much to do with it unless you think that everyone is just all of a sudden going to the leave the EPs. Don't really see it happening though.

Well its gonna take time to do the content of GoD and while people are doing that im sure maybe just maybe when the moons align in the right position there just may be a mob that pops in one of the planes.

>Well its gonna take time to do the content of GoD and while people are doing that im sure maybe just maybe when the moons align in the right position there just may be a mob that pops in one of the planes.

what your doing i think sounds fun, but don't expect everyone to flock emmediately to the expantion, sure they'll check it out, try out scripts, have some zerg runs on certain mobs etc. but if something they can do and obtain worth while loot off of is up, like the e-planes they will still go ahead and run back to that

its the vulak syndrome, just because theres better gear over the horizon, theres no real reason to NOT do vulak till his gear is absolute

Just a bunch of selffish and bullshit people here.

A guild can kill boss XX, then a pickup cannot ? Where comes this fucking rule ? Totally non-sense and human being without a brain.

Look at other servers like E'ci, there're constant PU raids in EP, all fire planes named were killed, even tried Fennin Ro.

In reality..

Get used to pickup raids..

In a couple months when WoW comes out.. most guilds will be lucky to have enough people for a small raid.

>Just a bunch of selffish and bullshit people here.

Actually, they are apparently outnumbered by the ones that can't read and suffer from low comprehension skills.

>In a couple months when WoW comes out.. most guilds will be lucky to have enough people for a small raid.

I'm still in wait and see mode as I have heard that same line about 6 or 7 times so far. WoW may be the second coming of Christ... or it might not.

It's extremely difficult now for a pre-elemental guild to find flag events up consistently enough to allow them to to advance *as a guild*

Well I'm glad to see that bothers you. Does that mean you are going to stop camping RZTW now?

Just a bunch of selffish and *edit* people here.

A guild can kill boss XX, then a pickup cannot ? Where comes this *edit* rule ? Totally non-sense and human being without a brain.

Look at other servers like E'ci, there're constant PU raids in EP, all fire planes named were killed, even tried Fennin Ro.

I don't see anyone saying a pickup raid can't kill named in EP, either as a rule or lack of skill. Most of the people are saying, "Fine, but don't expect me to come help you compete against my guild". Couple that with the fact that the original post said only people from experienced raiding guilds would be allowed and you have to wonder who exactly this is aimed at. No one on this server is going to complain if any group, with guildtag or not, gets to a mob first and kills it. Well, they might complain, but it will be done privately.

I applauded what Swifton did. Opening zones to people is a good thing. Admittedly I never had time to help, but the few times I joined the channel there was always 100+ people there and I figured whatever benefit my skills and knowledge brought were outweighed by just not giving them one more body to worry about. But that was an organization driven by flags, and even then I saw at least a couple incidents with loot. This is a purely loot driven concept, and there will be problems. I wish the people that organize this luck, but with little accountability I suspect your going to see the worst in some people.

Fil

L2 is right. When the next generation of mmorpg's come like WoW , City of Heroes, EQ2 , and Ultima Odyssey come all guilds across all these servers are gonna take major major hits.

To think that mmorpgs will not evolve and we will be playing eq for another 5 years would be silly. The big shots understand now what it takes to make a great game. WoW are hiring people from high end eq guilds to make sure the content is right. (Tigole) They consult others for advice. (Furor) How could WoW not take over?


Xregg

Well I'm glad to see that bothers you. Does that mean you are going to stop camping RZTW now?

1. BoW is very valuable, a few Elemental guilds still attempt him.
2. Its not RiP's fault you continually wipe on the script.

>To think that mmorpgs will not evolve and we will be playing eq for another 5 years would be silly. The big shots understand now what it takes to make a great game. WoW are hiring people from high end eq guilds to make sure the content is right. (Tigole) They consult others for advice. (Furor) How could WoW not take over?

To stake all your money on WoW being the one is equally silly though. I've already seen quite a few design decisions on WoW that people don't like. To say that a game that hasn't even started beta yet is the second coming is the real silly part. Like I said, its been said 6 or 7 times so far, I'd rather see the game than believe any hype about it before it comes out.

/nod Qaman

Ive'e herd this for years..WOW the prodigy of MMRPG is going to crush EQ. Its like a broken record over and over. We shall see but at any rate if some leave to play it more power to them..could use some space.

Well I'm glad to see that bothers you. Does that mean you are going to stop camping RZTW now?

Then that would mean they have to share EP with another guild when FD kills or TL kills solo. I don't see it happening anytime soon. If you want him you just need to get home earlier.

Its not RiP's fault you continually wipe on the script.


Hmmm...didn't know 2 attempts was considered a continuos wipe /shrug learn something new everyday.
I do wonder how it would go without having ove 130+ people in zone when we attempt it?
Probably a lot less lag and a lot less "ghosting" of mobs (That's when a mob is pulled or maybe not pulled, kind of hard to tell because it keeps running at you and dissapearing). Might even make moving and targeting a bit easier.

Well thanks for the info, hope I taught you something too, I'll be certain to bring it up at a guild meeting, You might want to bring it up at one of yours also.

Camping RZ? We aren't the ones showing up hours before he even spawns. We need a certain number of BoWs. We want to get them before every guild and AoR is doing the event because once that happens, we'll never see him up when it's convenient for us.

SoT, IVM, Turul/LS, and AroJPN have all also attempted and killed RZ in the last few weeks. Funny you single out us for "camping" him and blame lag despite wiping to various parts of it whether or not anyone is else is there. You also wipe to Agnarr and Mithaniel and Bertoxulous and Emperor Ssra and stuff in VT more than any other guild I know, maybe it's time to start looking for other answers besides "oh no the LAG!"


Back on the subject of open elemental raiding, maybe we should be expecting pick-ups raids on the easier elemental stuff sooner or later, but that still doesn't mean we have to like the idea. I also think you're being overly optimistic about the availability of "easy" stuff once Turul and AroJPN get going. The elementals on this server are likely going to be dominated by the non-US guilds in the coming months.

Malse, I give you credit, you never fail to spew more crap than perpetual shit machine.

Well, this thread is already well on it's way to NAG land, so....

Chenoa spewed:
Malse, I give you credit, you never fail to spew more crap than perpetual shit machine.

VT wipe #1 (http://members.arstechnica.com/subscriptors/x/thanselm/afterVTwipe1.jpg)

VT wipe #1, from another angle (http://members.arstechnica.com/subscriptors/x/thanselm/afterVTwipe3.jpg)

VT wipe #2 (http://members.arstechnica.com/subscriptors/x/thanselm/afterVTwipe4.jpg)

VT wipe #2, from another angle (http://members.arstechnica.com/subscriptors/x/thanselm/afterVTwipe5.jpg)

You failed twice in a row on RZ that night. You failed once before VA or RIP was even in the zone (we even held off moving on TZ to avoid causing too much lag on your first attempt)

You wiped the second time after RIP had left the zone and right around the time VA was leaving the zone after killing TZ.

Not to mention Agnarr, Bertox, MM....

Yeah...wow...those first forays into top floor VT were tough at times.


I think the 2nd one is of our first AHR attempt followed after a CR with a kill, was about 4 AM with I think 34 people, or it could be the time we were engaged and the server went down, the log back in was a bitch for sure, DT'd almost everyone and the rest got ported down into a room of pure hell. I think the least we've cleared VT with is 25 or so people.

Well thanks for posting the screenies, brings back some memories.

You wiped the second time after RIP had left the zone and right around the time VA was leaving the zone after killing TZ.

I think how you recall it is incorrect. We had *failed* the script as we were just set up in the arena area the timer ran out, however we didn't wipe, actually not 1 death. You are correct though we did wipe on our first actual fight with RZ, as someone somehow got aggro as we were dropping into the arena, but we were able to get him to I think 52% with the surprise aggroing of him and minimum preparedness for the encounter, kind of like getting trained at a zone in when your setting up CoTH, know what I mean?
I do apologize for leaving VA's name out of our first RZ encounter.
I had forgotten that not only was RiP in zone but VA was as well, so my numbers were initially wrong on how many were in zone, was probably closer to 200. Thanks for your assistance in clearing that discrepancy up.

I would most certainly give due credit to any guild that could do a brand new encounter, at the level of RZ or AHR on their own without wiping, but unfortunately I know of none.

Every guild wipes. Whats your point?



Xregg

lol wow 5 pages. I gotta check these boards more)

I'm going to put my two cents in. I hope Vhex don't get too too miffed if I think for myself here regardless of what his position is. LOL

Yes, Xregg and I discussed raiding the elemental planes open raided. I told him it sounded like fun to get with folks I no longer raid with from XA, EW, SoT and CB ect..and blow out a mini or two on occasion.

I told him I wouldn't lead a single raid but if he put it together I would be there if I'm free.

I think it could be fun to raid with my old buds even if it is a mini raid.

I do not personally see this as something thats going to happen daily. Hell ,most folks (me included ) would be too busy to do it every weekend.

Once in a while I get online and see some old XA or CB and we have a ball grouping in lodn or somthing. Why not take the party to the eps once in a while?

AOR will never raid the elemental planes. We are about getting folks flagged for the planes and this takes all our time.

We are getting more and more new faces coming to our AOR raids and I do not see the need for getting them all flagged lessening any time soon.

But I would go to an open raid in the EP's) Should be a blast to be able to spend some time with my old buds again)

the added chance of being able to win some phats is just Gravy on the bird)

Err, I remember killing aten the first go around at 9am est in the morning (16 hour clearing first time through). Had maybe 31 people tops, caster ring almost rotted because we only had two casters there and neither really wanted it...lol. Good times. As for the RZtW script, that thing is just fucked up, get over it and do your best, don't blame lag and other guilds on things during that event, because it doesn't matter who's there or how many are there, it CAN screw up for no reason. I remember our last attempt with 50-ish people (no one wants to kill rz but warriors, we make up like 1/3rd of all rz raid forces), we killed TZ, getting ready to pull VZ, and all the sudden TZ decided to respawn behind us and wipe the raid. Fun stuff, really.

Yeah...wow...those first forays into top floor VT were tough at times.

I think the 2nd one is of our first AHR attempt followed after a CR with a kill, was about 4 AM with I think 34 people, or it could be the time we were engaged and the server went down, the log back in was a bitch for sure, DT'd almost everyone and the rest got ported down into a room of pure hell. I think the least we've cleared VT with is 25 or so people.

Well, you got the 4am part right, but that certainly wasn't one of your "first forays into top floor VT". Though DXXT really isn't a "top floor VT" mob, he/she/it is just a gateway mob into the top floor.

The AHR attempt was your third attempt that I can confirm, but there are gaps in the data large enough to hide at least one AHR attempt, maybe more.

All four of those screenshots were from the same night. Unfortunately for FD, there was no "CR with a kill" on AHR that night -- the Asians got AHR the next day.

I would most certainly give due credit to any guild that could do a brand new encounter, at the level of RZ or AHR on their own without wiping, but unfortunately I know of none.

It's not really difficult to find guilds that were successful on their first run at an encounter.

I wouldn't put AHR on the same level as RZ. By all of the accounts I've heard, the most difficult part of AHR is staying awake during the battle. I'm confident that once the planets and stars align and we get a shot at AHR that she will fall.

If you can kill Thall Va Kelun, you can do AHR.

TVK is the only remotely challenging fight in VT anymore, everything else is just attack and afk. Aten blobs hit for alot, true, and the GFlux can be annoying, but they're total wusses.

Unless you get adds from 2nd floor while doing them !

The AHR attempt was your third attempt that I can confirm, but there are gaps in the data large enough to hide at least one AHR attempt, maybe more.

Weird, because we only ever wiped on AHR one time...our first attempt...but like most guilds we learned quick and killed it. So with that I would say your 133t intelligence gathering is flawed. I'm guessing your screenshots are from the week of many server resets...as you know...having a server poof while your in VT will always result in death if your in a spot where warders spawn.

If you can kill Thall Va Kelun, you can do AHR.


Very true...gotta kill TVK to get to AHR...no way around it I know of.

Kind of weird tho trying to talk to Buttyip or whatever his name is, he's never killed any of the mobs in question.

You guys need to start a new thread and get the hell out of Xreggs!

Weird, because we only ever wiped on AHR one time...our first attempt...but like most guilds we learned quick and killed it. So with that I would say your 133t intelligence gathering is flawed. I'm guessing your screenshots are from the week of many server resets...as you know...having a server poof while your in VT will always result in death if your in a spot where warders spawn.

Wrong again, Chenoa.

Your own guild's news page (http://www.finaldestiny.org/portal/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=38) says this: "Aten dropped again, our 2nd kill of the end boss of Luclin in the span of two weeks.". That posting is December 2.

Those screenshots are from late Dec 14 and ass-crack-of-dawn Dec 15, which was before the Week of Many Patches, and the disatrous Casino patch.

THE INCREDIBLE HAIR SPLITTING MAN STRIKES! NO DETAIL IS TOO SMALL, NO STATEMENT TOO PETTY FOR THIS MODERN DAY UBERMENSCH!

WHATS THAT UP IN THE SKY? IS IT A BIRD? IS IT A PLANE?

NO! ITS A MINOR DETAIL, INSIGNIFICANT TO ALL BUT THE MOST ANAL RETENTIVE IN THE WORLD!

Well other than our first attempt, the only so called wipe that we had on AHR was when the server reset during the week or so of many resets which was around the middle of December. The wipe you have taken the time to so ridiculously document was caused by being engaged with AHR when the server went down, I believe we had 26 killing it that time, and when logging back in AHR DT's almost everyone because of the warders being up...some were DT'd and a bunch were ported on log in. But I do Digress, never having killed those mobs or even attempted them, you would have no idea of what you speak of, so with that, I also allow you room for the many errors in your posts.


Honestly, as Xregg said and as anyone knows, guilds wipe all the time...from the lowest guild all the way up to EW. I find it quite odd and almost obsessive of you to have taken the time and disc space on your computer to actually save screen shots of our guild doing something that every guild has done, but little men often try to show their prowess through others work, so with that said, I see where you are coming from.

guilds wipe all the time...from the lowest guild

Not as often as you huhu.

Not as often as you huhu. :lol

How did this turn into some kind of an flame fest?

Also. why is there links to my guild's whipes? Don't you have anything else to do than document another guild's activities? Every guild whipes. To document that and bring it onto a public board is really just totally unprofessional. Its akin to taking pictures of a rival masterbating or whiping their butt and then posting it in public. At that point it makes the character of the person taking the photos seem really questionable. Perhaps whoever is running things at VA should question that kind of behavior.

If there was no challenge and risk of failure, is it really worth doing? Personally I expect a whipe or two as part of learning an encounter. On stuff like Bert and RZtW, perhaps more than 2 =P. Alot of guilds took a month to get those down pat. Its practice and development of strategy, and the whole learning of the means of execution as one guild. With highly contested mobs, you don't always get to refine things as quickly. However you want to slice it, we still keep it in house and on the level.

Malse, you, your guild, and whoever you work with at the time (Prism mostly) really should learn to take care of your own affairs and stay out of ours. Same goes with you, Buadyen. Those pics are totally UNSAT just in the principle of the fact you snooped around and then posted them. Its great that you all seem to have this hobby of exposing every weakness of FD and our membership, although its not really a healthy one. Hatred leads to such things as hypertension. Maybe try rock climbing instead? I guess to YOUR credit, Malse, you didn't have snap shots of whipes.

FD will make it to the E-planes, in spite of all the "nay says" , "not any time sooners", and "fat chancers" Time and progress marches on like it always has and for you, being in the E-Planes already, should perhaps spend more time enjoying the rewards of your's and Prism's co-opperative efforts instead of digging up dirt. Plus, with the oh so gloomy picture of what the current state of affairs is like in the E-Planes, why should we even be in a hurry? We are still going to work at getting there, but at our own pace and when spawns allow. As long as its fun, who really gives a crap.

Well other than our first attempt, the only so called wipe that we had on AHR was when the server reset during the week or so of many resets which was around the middle of December. The wipe you have taken the time to so ridiculously document was caused by being engaged with AHR when the server went down, I believe we had 26 killing it that time, and when logging back in AHR DT's almost everyone because of the warders being up...some were DT'd and a bunch were ported on log in. But I do Digress, never having killed those mobs or even attempted them, you would have no idea of what you speak of, so with that, I also allow you room for the many errors in your posts.

Errors in my post? What are these errors you speak of? You're the only one who has made posts rife with errors.

Chenoa obviously operates under the concept of "if I repeat something enough times, it will become true."

As much as you try to deny it, those screenshots are from Dec 14, and 15. You guys wiped twice that night, once on DXXT and once on AHR.

You know why I'm aboslutely positive on that? Because I was the one that took the screenshots.

The Casino was patched in on Dec 18, and that's when you guys lost an AHR spawn from the resulting emergency patch. The "Week of Many Patches" came after the Casino was patched out. I can't comment much on the happenings then because I was travelling.

Honestly, as Xregg said and as anyone knows, guilds wipe all the time...from the lowest guild all the way up to EW.

You are the only person that's trying to dispute that. Malse said "You also wipe to Agnarr and Mithaniel and Bertoxulous and Emperor Ssra and stuff in VT more than any other guild I know, maybe it's time to start looking for other answers besides 'oh no the LAG!' ", and you said he was full of shit.

Then I posted the VT screenshots, and you tried to claim they happened on your first try, or as the result of a server crash.

Thats great Buadyen.

I see a bright future for you, as a lawyer who chases ambulances or as a member of some slimey politician's campaign. Last time one checked, EQ was supposed to be a game, and not some outlet to prove what a complete asshole you can be to others.

As for the whipes, we whiped because all the people at the raid ran out of hitpoints. Whoopity doo. I am surprised you don't have some glittery bar graphs that actually PROVE, on a ratio of success/attempt, that FD whipes more than any other guild on the server. Getting actual data might be difficult, though as most guilds in general have better things to do than allow you to snoop around their raids or have you ask questions about their success.

and you said he was full of shit.

No I said Malse has never failed to spew more crap than a perpetual shit machine.
But gratz, you have finally been able to beat him. Now theres a milestone for you, whats the next one you are working on? Perhap's that square peg in the round hole problem?


Thank you so much for documenting our raids so closely, It's really weird tho, no one seems to recall those raids. Your obssesive behavior is interesting to say the least.

OK, Mr. I know everything there is to know about Final Destiny and I document all their raids...Should we start a point tally for you? I think you attend as many if not more raids than some of our members. Pretty sad if you ask me :(
The only straight up wipe we have ever had on AHR was at about 4 am est, and it was our very first attempt at her. We wiped twice subsequently to: a- TVK spawned 4+ hours late on one clearing, we thought we could clear to the top and take ahr down before he spawned (considering he was 4 hours late, it wasn't a bad idea). But he did spawn during the AHR fight, and the warders in her room spawned, which causes her to begin AE Deathtouching. Wipe! and b- during the week of server instability. We had cleared up to AHR and the server dropped during the fight. When everyone logged back in (as Chenoa has stated on multiple occasions), everyone was killed in one way or another. You can call that a wipe if you want, since you're obviously looking for the most minute of details to point and laugh about, but I call it bad luck and server instability.

you tried to claim they happened on your first try, or as the result of a server crash.

That's because one of those wipes did happen because of a server crash. Learn to read you fool.

As for DXXT wipes...who gives a flying fuck? Everyone screws up, and so did we, big deal, get the fuck over it. :(

-Mezzmoron
~Final Destiny~

Which is the same thing as saying he's full of shit.

Keep trying to deny that you guys wiped that night, Chenoa. It doesn't change the fact that you did. You should check you logs more carefully. Like any good little guild officer, your logs should be running all the time.

Here's a couple of lines to help your search:
[Sun Dec 14 22:52:01 2003] Chenoa says, 'were gonna coth past ya all'
[Sun Dec 14 22:52:12 2003] Laeyakk says, 'won't be hard =)'
[Sun Dec 14 22:52:22 2003] Laeyakk says, 'go about 10 feet thataway'
[Sun Dec 14 22:52:26 2003] Laeyakk points.
[Sun Dec 14 22:52:36 2003] Nahual says, '...uninvised'
[Sun Dec 14 22:52:45 2003] Laeyakk says, 'then start casting coth! =)'

(And yes, I have had logs turned on nearly constantly since mid-year 2000. I proudly wear the badge of "Packrat")

Hey Lummus, your recommendation on being a lawyer or getting into politics was misguided. Chenoa clearly has the slimeball factor down better than I ever could.

[Sun Dec 14 22:52:01 2003] Chenoa says, 'were gonna coth past ya all'

OMFG...I did say that...what will ever come of me.

Maybe. Maybe not. The difference is that Chenoa is my guild mate and friend and YOU are the person attacking my guild and my friends. I will stand by Chen no matter how "slimey" you perceive her to be, so don't even bother going that route.

Man, you are weak and pathatic.

That's because one of those wipes did happen because of a server crash. Learn to read you fool.

I can read quite well, thanks. I never denied that you guys lost an AHR spawn because of a server crash. Heck, those same server issues cost us an Emperor spawn. However, the spawns in question here happened 4 days before the server crash.

Oh wow, Chenoa, it looks like someone in your guild also knows the raid these picutres came from:

The only straight up wipe we have ever had on AHR was at about 4 am est, and it was our very first attempt at her. We wiped twice subsequently to: a- TVK spawned 4+ hours late on one clearing, we thought we could clear to the top and take ahr down before he spawned (considering he was 4 hours late, it wasn't a bad idea). But he did spawn during the AHR fight, and the warders in her room spawned, which causes her to begin AE Deathtouching. Wipe! and b- during the week of server instability. We had cleared up to AHR and the server dropped during the fight.

Bingo! If there was a prize here, you'd have won it, even though the details aren't quite right. That's OK, you weren't in the zone when it happened anyway, and with people like Chenoa relaying the information, I'm not surprised you got it wrong.

Anyway, here are the events of that fateful Dec 14 evening:
1) VA notices the two TVXs and DXXT are up.
2) VA moves in and kills the two TVXs.
3) VA decides to try to kill DXXT. We didn't have CoTH mages placed yet, so we had to clear our way there.
4) Someone makes a mistake outside of Blob 1's room and brings a ton of mobs down on top of us. Unfortuantely, we were thin on healers by that time so we wiped.
5) We recovered at the zone and called it a night, having completed our main goal for that evening -- getting keys and loot from TVX. (At this point, only DXXT is up)
6) FD shows up and Chenoa announces she will be CoTHing past us... while we were sitting at the entrance...
7) VA TLs out.
8) AHR spawns and is spotted by one of VA's members 10 minutes later.
9) FD CoTHs to DXXT and engages and wipes.
10) FD recovers and CoTHs back and tries again, and wins.
11) FD CoTHs to VXAHR's room and proceeds to clear to AHR
12) FD engages AHR, and gets her down to around 40%.
13) POOF! Va Xi Aten Ha Ra spawns along with the two warders in AHR's room.
14) AHR AE deathtouches FD.

It was the first wipe on DXXT that night that caused the failure on AHR. If you hadn't wiped, you guys would have definitely downed her instead of wiping.

If you're the kind that keeps score, the wipe count that night comes out about even.

Buadyen you have got to be the most pathetic fucktard I have seen in a long time. Why do you spend so much time watching what we do?

Rigin

Wow...you are a retard.

Heh, backed into a corner, Chenoa has nothing but insults.

Is it any wonder that the last few recent times that VA and FD cooperated on something that line of contact was through someone other than Chenoa?

As for why I "spend so much time watching you"? (3.5 hours over the last month and a half isn't a huge amount of time at all.)

Hmm... maybe it's because both guilds want the same sets of mobs? Naturally, when those mobs are up, the VA members that aren't otherwise occupied are going to watch those zones more closely than when they aren't. Duh.

Oftentimes, we don't have to expend any effort to find out what you're doing because you're doing it in a zone that we have people exping in, or one of your members sends an innane tells to one of our members.

Psssttt

Both of ya take yer shit over to nag eh?

The penis waving of substance over this content ended last year.

Stop splitting hairs eh?;P

Fandros

I think I would cry IRL if I ever spent 10 hours of VT clearing to wipe on AHR.

Thats like when that one dude tripped over the finish line that one time and lost the race cuz he tripped that one time.

So after some careful searching of our guild raid video database, we found some footage proving that Final Destiny has many times attempted to cover up it's wipes. Thanks to Buttboy from VA, the coverup is now exposed. And I've switched to his side!!! THIS IS BIGGER NEWS THAN THE POTENTIAL COVER UP OF WMD'S IN IRAQ!!!


View The Video Here! (http://www.fanta.dk/showmovie.asp?mid=4E724887-3FEC-4364-BE56-D844860E3CBE)


Both of ya take yer shit over to nag eh?

Go away Fanny...I'm having fun;p

Sign me up for the raid force xregg... unfortunately, after this week is over, i will have very limited internet access, if any, for the following 10 weeks. After that, i will be at full force again, hopefully.

Dammur / Sknot

Long as yer having fun sis.

;p

Fandros

Who the fuck cares. Shut up. People die.

Carnival

I remember our last attempt with 50-ish people (no one wants to kill rz but warriors, we make up like 1/3rd of all rz raid forces), we killed TZ, getting ready to pull VZ, and all the sudden TZ decided to respawn behind us and wipe the raid. Fun stuff, really.

I think that's normal now Brel. When you take too long to kill VZ, TZ repops. Happened to us once too.

Who the fuck cares.


Lummus and Chenoa are obviously upset about it, since they hijacked an unrelated thread to spend three pages making asses of themselves.

I think it sounds like fun Xregg, provided I'm not raiding. As much as I'm sure he appreciates the free bumps from the folks that can't figure out how to start their own thread where their shit belongs in the first place, please take it to somewhere that people could give a rats ass.