Mr. "Classes aren't that out of balance" is now a game designer.

eq.crgaming.com/viewartic...ticle=5252 (http://eq.crgaming.com/viewarticle.asp?Article=5252)

uh oh..

head for the hills!

Yeah, classes were so far out of balance for a while that we stopped using warriors as tanks and refused to take rogue/monk apps.

They were bad enough to rush out a new melee system.

Perhaps if you stepped out of your ivory tower and examined the game most of us play you would have more of a clue about how bad things were.

My guild is made up entirely of bards and clerics!

IVM = Clerics and Noar (Clerics optional)

Tee Hee, I <3 my Ivory Tower.

And I group exclusively with guildmates too, it's nice!

I dunno what ivory tower Ang is in ... but it must be near mine.

Rogues are still the best dps class, monks are still the best pullers, warriors are still the best raid tanks ...

By the best dps class for rogues I mean that they don't need to meditiate and provide sustained dps throughout an entire encounter. They also have the ability to tank if necessary, and many tanking rogues have saved me in the past.

A little premptive strike before someone pulls out logs of dps for rogues compared to wizards on a single mob, as opposed to over an entire evening's worth of fighting.

bards > monks

Well, the correct equation is "Bards > All"

But that's another point entirely ;P

Most high-end wizards can nuke for a very, very extended period of time before running out of mana, Kelraz. They're easily able to outdamage rogues on high-end encounters.

i agree with roliel . high end wizards can do a lot of damage ..

So...tell me why they rushed out a new melee system again?

I mean if it really WAS working, you don't think they would spend the man hours on that instead of puttin them towards LOE spamming or fixing doors..right?

Rushed? I beg your pardon? "Pure" melees have been bitching for *how* long? The Absor quote that "Classes are not that out of balance" (which I think was dead-on, btw) has been around for how many months?

Yeah, SoE really rushed on getting this system together after hearing public outcry.

>I mean if it really WAS working, you don't think they would spend the man hours on that instead of puttin them towards LOE spamming or fixing doors..right?

angeal covered the rush part, but the main reason behind it was that the melee system was SO boring, this is their way of making it more immerse, then just hitting auto attack and going afk

Please.

They didn't have jack shit done until they saw warriors were planning a sit in..at which point they quickly announced they were going to have a chat in a few weeks to discuss their "planned" changes.


I also call bullshit on the "make it less boring" bit. Melee do the same amount if not more than casters already. Your ignorance of melee classes is apparent when you use that dated "hit auto attack and afk" line.

Yeah, you can only hit auto-attack and go afk on 80% of uber mobs now.

Call bullshit all you want, I still think Absor was dead on when he said melee weren't that out of balance.

Were changes warranted? Of course. I read most class boards (Yes, I realize this does not make me an expert, but it has given me several months of insight as to the actual complaints being voiced) and I've both played pure melee myself, and grouped with them up and down the board. If it's some no-name gimp equipped warrior in a random pickup group, or if it's my guild's MT. I have a fair idea of the capability and broken-ness (or lack thereof) of most classes, both from firsthand experience of playing and countless hours of watching the way other classes interact with my groups and myself.

The system wasn't perfect, but honestly, nobody was ever broken, and nobody was ever *that* out of balance.

you can call bullshit all you want, as well as ignorance,

i've played all melees as well as grouped with all melee's, i've never had a grope about any one of them except for the warrior, which YES does exactly that, hits auto and afks, monks should do just about the same on a mob, wow they miss flying kick big woop, no one cares anymore, the only one that didn't go afk was a rogue, which wasn't hurtting in the first place

the only thing this chang does, is make the pure combat melee system more intristing

oh and dont' think that warrior sit in did anything heh

There are NO pure melees that can put on attack and go afk and be worth a damn.

Rogues gotta stab, warriors gotta taunt and move the mob, monks need to pull and use their 2ndary attacks.. If you go afk while fighting too often then whoever plays a pure melee does one shitty job at it, it isn't "that easy" to put on attack and afk.

Call bullshit all you want


OH NO! You are totally right!

They had their solution sitting there for the past 6-12 months while 90% of the class boards were complaining about pure melee and people were doing large /feedback campaigns about it monthly! They just didn't say a single word about it until days after a large amount of players started planning a sit in simply to build SUSPENSE! That's it!

Why didn't I see it all earlier?

And sure, you could play a suck ass melee and hit auto attack and afk just like you could play a suck ass caster and just hit 2 keys all night. Is that you you play your class?

>They had their solution sitting there for the past 6-12 months

wow, i didn't know you had inside info'z

and yea that sit in totally made them think twice about "fixing" things, if you think this fix is to up dps or anything, well... it could, by a huge woping 10!, so yea if you call this a fix then fine, so be it

also i would like to see the boards you go to that complain about their roles, most boards have been quiet, alot of people are happy where they are at? the ones i've seen were the monks after the big nerf patch about their tanking abilities taken away, the next was warriors complaing about paladins reaching within 500hp of their max, and rogues? complains? oh yea fennin, they had to resort to throwing daggers...

so yea, i can see how unballanced everything is, concidering we still use a warrior to tank, who does a grand job of it, rogues still did a hell of alot of dmg, monks did just fine pulling, as well as had fine dps

and yea, anyone can afk and cast two spells, i do it all the time in the CH chain, talk to dyschord, talk to anyone whos grouped with me, hell i hardly pay attention to the chain itself, thats how easy it is to play this game and do good at it

and hell the melee probably have it harder, they gotta watch out for rage, they should probably fix that too

and hell the melee probably have it harder, they gotta watch out for rage


Ahh so you have come back to -my point- that you were arguing against already?


i would like to see the boards you go


If you haven't seen anything on melee problems perhaps I should ask you what class boards you read. It certainly can't be your own class boards?

eqcleric.gameglow.com/for...adid=14329 (http://eqcleric.gameglow.com/forums/showthread.php?s=54bbac8e5c5cbd2f383d9585bd51b503&threadid=14329)
eqcleric.gameglow.com/for...adid=16553 (http://eqcleric.gameglow.com/forums/showthread.php?s=54bbac8e5c5cbd2f383d9585bd51b503&threadid=16553)
eqcleric.gameglow.com/for...adid=17350 (http://eqcleric.gameglow.com/forums/showthread.php?s=54bbac8e5c5cbd2f383d9585bd51b503&threadid=17350)

If you really think everyone was all happy I can bury you in links to threads on more class boards about it if you want..

Your sarcasm recognition rating = 0 BTW

Rushed or not, my original point stands. We'll never know if they had this in the works and only decided to announce it when they realized how upset various classes were, or wether they really *are* stupid enough to whip something up in 4 days to impliment. It's kind of irrelevant.

Classes were never that out of balance. Did people have gripes? Yeah, sure. Even those at the top of the game had gripes. Like bards. I freely admit that in my opinion, bards as a class have enjoyed loads of freedom, being useful, versatile, and overall wanted because of our capabilities. Yet still, there are other bards I know of, bitching of this and that, wanting this improvement and that one. You can't really satisfy everyone.

But no, Absor was dead right when he said that classes weren't that out of balance.

ok, first thread you pointed out ... cleric talking about how he likes grouping with a paladin, good gripe, hell even a warrior posted below him to liking to be a puller and having a paladin tank while he did dps

2nd one, broken taunt, yea it is pretty broke, it does work a whole lot, its something probably does need to be fixed, but why is it being brought up? the patch doesn't even include taunt, it includes forms of range taunt

3rd, that sit in thing again

again, i have yet to really see a good "gripe" about any of these

how upset various classes were


Interesting choice of words, and a totally different meaning than:


other bards I know of


Do you really think 90-95% of a class board would jump on a bandwagon just for bitching? Or that it would go across class lines, even to classes that are in competition for the same group slot? How often, just for example, have the majority of bards over at the concert hall been vocally in favor of an increase to enchanter mana regen or charm?

Maybe you should look back over that ranged taunt and what it really means. You are coming across as extremely ignorant about this, as if you haven't even bothered to really think about or look into what you are arguing.

yea, actually i do, i read alot of boards when i'm just sitting here, and i seriously don't see these gripes, hell, steel warrior says "warriors aren't broke," plus playing with these classes, playing a warrior who KS'd a rogue that was sitll using an epic, or using a rogue to do burst dps, or even a monk who still has that broken FD ability

the only thing i liked reading so far was the fact bards lull got nerfed, down to 18 seconds? still kinda power full

and yea i read eqcleric boards, i just recently started again, they stopped posting about how their ragefire got stolen

Yes, I bet you can borrow a time geared warrior and ks a rogue using epic. Can you ks a time geared rogue?

Where does steel warrior say warriors are fine without this fix?

Warriors getting upgraded aggro, monks getting a lull to help them regain some use as pullers..it was done to fix problems with the pure melee. They weren't bringing enough to the table in comparison with casting classes. Go read some soe posts, they say the same thing.

BTW soe PR also had some other quotes, if you want to buy their lines:

"There will never be any soul binders"
"Working as intended"
"Spell drops are fine"

I could go on..

The thing about the melee changes that is rushed is this:
In the next update, tentatively scheduled for December 16th
It'll probably get moved back, but they've let things slide for a long time and now they're looking to rush out some half tested "fixes" in a big hurry.

I guess someone forgot to mark the FFXI launch date on their calendar...

monks getting a lull to help them regain some use as pullers

An 18 second duration, single target lull with a recast of 30 seconds isn't going to do much of anything. This change was made to qualm a bunch of whining; it has very little substance.

yes warriors were out of balance in this sense. if you have a pick up group and had and option of taking 2 warroirs and 1 warroir and a DPS class you would wait to take a DPS class. The system should so that the non-tanking warroir can switch to DPSing and deagro like other pure melees. were the option of 2 warroirs or 3 warroirs will no bring down the effectivness of the group. pals and SK can Grab agro as the mob is coming. what would of worked is to have a majot tuant that recycled ever 90 sec to 2 mins so the warroir could pull the agro at the start like pals and DS can or even a ranger. in a fight that takes 40 to 60 sec having to wait 8 to 16 sec before a the MT has agro is stupid for grind groups.

If the warroir can switch to a DPS Mode with a minor I mean minor defensive penalty they could do more soloing with they need to. It's about giving the warroir the options so they become more functional in any given group or encounter.

I agree Roliel, it really doesn't do much at all.. but the simple fact that they DID rush it out serves as an admission to how bad it was getting.

And if you still don't believe they would rush something like this out in a month and a half or so..just think back to their QC history.

>There are NO pure melees that can put on attack and go afk and be worth a damn.

How do they stack up against AFK casters?

hey crist0,

you can always go out and find something you ENJOY doing...

toothy has a taunt key?



goes back to eating celery and peanut butter

I don't believe in taunting.. If you did something to have the mob forget my ugly mug you deserve to die!

warroir
What's wrong with you!?!?!?

That is all.

And Toothy sucks. Badly. Very Badly.