..since its OK for the rest of the world to be but not the United States?

Haiti gets plowed by yet ANOTHER attempt by Mother Nature to wipe them off the earth and here we are, the 12 Trillion Dollar in debt United States riding in to save the day. Lets rebuild Haiti and put our own infrastructure rebuilding programs on hold as well as other issues to rebuild a nation that has no idea of how to stand on its own to begin with.

Meanwhile...China....with its 2 Trillion dollars of foriegn reserves which is very much in the black compared to the US where 50 cents of every dollar our government spends is BORROWED and backed up by printing more money, is sending a token delegation of 20 people. They made sure to show pictures of them boarding the flight, big Chinese flags waving. I think that is called a "token presence"? Political grandstanding? Maybe just showing their face? Granted it not their hemisphere, yet Indonesia is not in OUR hemisphere either and yet off we went to help them when a tsunami/earthquake/volcano errupts etc occurs.

Enough is enough. When will the USA be so broke as to finally get to the point where we tell these poor sods that they need to find some other source for their relief because honestly...we have problems pressing enough to let this one pass on to those with deeper pockets.

Probably because at heart, we're fundamentally nice people and not a bunch of f'in (insert ethnic slur here). However, I think a lot of people will agree that we send out far too much foreign aid (Hello Israel!), and far too little of it comes in the form of investment into things like the Peace Corps, and we let a lot of questionable religious organizations in on that money too.

But it's really hard to tell anyone "ok, this time we're not in on it" without looking like the bad guy. And thanks to the state of politics in America, the one place you can never be is responsible.

Also, Haiti is right next door and in our imperial space anyway, so that one at least makes a little sense to me. I am interested to see how the recent South American state's alliance comes in on this one though.

Better aid than soldiers - I would rather we redirect our efforts. More Haitis and less military blustering.

Malse, you are dead right on the fact that at heart we are not a bunch of f'n ( yah I get yah, slur here) but it's one thing for individuals to send a fiver or a twenty spot to Humanitarian Agency/Entity of your choice commited to relief efforts or volunteer some time and elbow grease and another for our government to pledge public resources that we only have on paper to mount a huge relief effort. Perhaps its "feel good" spending but then again....we seem to have trouble getting cities the money to do such things as clear snow, warm the homeless in one of the coldest winters the past half century, pay for the 10% unemployment and other such ill effects of the recession that are crippling local and state governments and yet we can allocate what will probably end up being BILLIONS for Haiti? We are not just talking the short term rescue and recovery as well is immediate needs for food, medicine, clean water and shelter. Dollars to donuts that the US will be intrumental in the reconstruction of the infrastructure of Haiti, and also most eyes will be on the USA to un-fuck the real problems of that place that have it juxtiposed against The Dominican Republic...which is a stable and wealthy country on the same Hispanola that the poorest nation in the Western Hemisphere is located.

So in the end, we are going to buy into all of Haiti's problems while we are hard pressed to figure out how to pay for many of our own.

'Enough is enough. When will the USA be so broke as to finally get to the point where we tell these poor sods that they need to find some other source for their relief because honestly...we have problems pressing enough to let this one pass on to those with deeper pockets.'

- Probably when you stop fighting trillion dollar conflicts in the Middle East? And remember this is an emergency, and Haiti is on your doorstep Lumm.
I think your risk of sounding crass didn't quite come off.

Halo, I am all for individuals and non-government organizations giving aid in the form of money or time and elbow grease but my point is...our government really can't afford it. Bill Clinton has gone so far as to ask for people to send in a buck or two, cash, for relief efforts. Even if he skims some off the top that is still going to be a big chunk of money. Individuals acting first without taxpayer money...sure and yes, US military logistics are second to none and indeed will be needed to move the manpower and materials to do a solid relief effort but how far does it need to reach? Still though, you can pull the dead out and care for the living...and then what? Leave? Someone has to rebuild, and one has to ask if it really needs to be the USA this go around.

Its easy to play the "Money wasted on pointless wars" card but it does not negate the fact that the USG is horribly over leveraged. I am quite aware that the Iraq war is almost to the torches and pitchforks level in the UK as well too, with that tribunal going. Still, we are still stuck being committed to these conflicts, and the stimulus and countless other things we can't just drop. Ultimately I have to wonder if the USG is going to bounce a check on this one. Its easy to label me a dick for pointing out that this Haiti thing is just going to expose the fact that that country has been fucked from day one on the best of times and this will only further reveal there is a need for a longer term fix. I am just curious if there is going to be a long term solution considered at all AND if the USA should always be the one to foot most of the tab.

I visited Haiti last year for two weeks on a TDY to do some work on our new embassy Port Au Prince. The place barely functioned BEFORE this. Half the city is lawless. The rest lives in squaller. One finger flick and the place topples politically and this is probably the finger flick.

The whole city has to be rebuilt. Everything. Heck it had to be rebuilt BEFORE the quake. "Relief" in my logic is they need power. Sanitation. Hospitals. Schools. Roads. They have to stand on their own. Its a in for a penny, in for pound. You can't just bury the dead and bulldoze the rubble and then call it "mission complete". It just boggles me how it can happen. I have no idea how it can happen. The thing is the world is going to look to the USA to do it and I am not sure we can...or should. Not alone. You certainly are of that mindset that this disaster is on the US, Halo. It is right in our back yard as you said.

It would be nice if some of the countries in Central and South America ponied up some bucks (Hello Hugo Chavez), but I'm sure the responsibility of cleaning up, and fixing up Hati will land squarely in the laps of the United States. And so will the blame of anything that doesn't go well.

A few quick points...

What charity/aid/disaster releif you give should not be determined by what others give.

It's not racial, it's governmental. The Chinese government sees no benefit to their power base giving a boat load of aid to Haiti, therefore, they make a token showing, just to act like they care. Hell they don't really share the wealth amongst their own people you expect them to send it to Haiti?

I'm glad we do as much as we can, and we should until we are unable. The moment we are unwilling means we've lost the basic principals this country should be based on.

A few quick points...

What charity/aid/disaster releif you give should not be determined by what others give.

Very true. It should be determined on what can be afforded. The USG can't afford to do what needs to be done in Haiti other than the immediate crisis. This quake though is going to leave wounds that will take decades to heal if they ever heal. Giving some food and medicine is not going to solve the problems if we leave them with no infrastructure. The country will fall into anarchy.

It's not racial, it's governmental. The Chinese government sees no benefit to their power base giving a boat load of aid to Haiti, therefore, they make a token showing, just to act like they care. Hell they don't really share the wealth amongst their own people you expect them to send it to Haiti?

Haiti has good relations with Taiwan. China's narrow stance on most anything means Haiti gets window dressing. Plus, the Chinese government is the most ruthless pack of assholes on the planet. Domination/Hegemony of Asia is all they care about. Too bad their economy is showing signs of implosion due to numerous bubbles. Still...2 trillion dollars of reserve......

I'm glad we do as much as we can, and we should until we are unable. The moment we are unwilling means we've lost the basic principals this country should be based on.

Considering that Obama is conjuring up new taxes as we speak, it begs the question as to how much we can really do on a government level. My point was that it seems perfectly fine for other governments to stand on the sidelines and yet the US is moralely obligated even when the money really isn't there for us. Really it is going to be on individuals and charities if anything lasting relief wise is going to stick

"And so will the blame of anything that doesn't go well."

Indeed. We will get full blame if the country can't stand on its own and the humanitarian crisis deepens due to leaving the country after the immediate emergency passes. Haiti is probably a longer term and much more expensive commitment than rebuilding Iraq and Afghanistan combined.

Sorry bro

I will always support helping those in need, no matter where in the world they may be. Heck I would support helping Israel if something happened to them along the same lines and you know how I feel about Israel. People are people, and sometimes we have to let our humanity show positively. Lord knows we show the bad side of our humanity daily.

In the future if we keep our noses out of the other stuff we keep getting into we could then afford to help people. Which is the best way to fight terrorism btw.

I would like to also point out something else to you...

http://www.fema.gov/news/newsrelease.fema?id=9930

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4176/is_20031228/ai_n14560715/

We have even helped Iran after an Earthquake.

I remember reading the stories on the news about the crying Iranians thanking our people as they descended in helicopters to help.

It is good enough to help a people in need... it is priceless to see a supposed enemy weep at your feet and thank you for your humanity.

I'll have to post some of the pictures, but holy fucking shit. I've seen some of the news reports, and I recognize a load of the places we were around when I deployed to Haiti 4 years ago. Crazyness, I remember the presidential palace/house thing and Have a pic of it, then seeing it flat as a pancake is just surreal

Lets rebuild Haiti and put our own infrastructure rebuilding programs on hold as well as other issues to rebuild a nation that has no idea of how to stand on its own to begin with.

Specifically what infrastructure programs/issues did we put on hold to help haiti?

/shrug. Probably none I guess. Its been a few days and plenty has changed since.

We can always print more money! Plus, thanks to this digital age we live in, the money will certainly be there. Its almost like asking every man, woman and child on earth to donate one dollar. Individual people, on top of governments, will offer sustainable solutions for Haiti.

A bit off topic but here it goes...


What I find ironic.. On news you see 2 or 3 guys digging in rubble looking for survivors and 2 - 3 HUNDERED standing around with there thumbs up there butts. Why can't they help?

Good point. Going to take a guess but 1,000 inexperienced rescue workers running around a unsafe structure would kill more people, and kill the people stuck.

I think that's pretty logical Ibudin.

Once the professsionals show up, people in the crowd regardless of their intent to be helpful are usually just in the way.

If those working in the rubble had been pro's I might buy that theory.. However, these were like a small family digging around looking for loved ones. If you thought there were people trapped and you could help wouldn't you grab a shovel at the very least and pitch in? Or, is it a case of "we need people to take care of us and help us"?

Dont think you could be heartless after watching this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAj2v9sz9ms