I am thinking of building or buying a Athalon 64 system. I was just wondering if anyone could recommend a company that has reasonable prices and does good work. Thanks. ;)

www.alienware.com (http://www.alienware.com)

Alienware? Reasonable prices? You ought to build your own Chan.

Even if you're not comfortable with some aspects of it (CPU + heatsink/fan placement, etc.), there are great bare-bones deals out there from places like MonarchComputer.com who do the basics for you (they even include Far Cry, HL2, and 4 months of free Napster downloads), or Newegg, etc. Also Pricewatch is a great price engine to find individual parts as well.

I'd suggest a 939-pin 90nm A64 chip over the 130nm or the 754 one (as long as you don't plan on going above the 3500+). Let us know what you end up doing!

P.S. I'm not advertising, these companies are from my personal experience.

Yeah I just am not to comfortable with the whole which heat sync to get etc, and whats a decent motherboard. But if i could find a bare bones system that would be great. I will check out the MB and the sites you mentioned Cados, thanks.

If you want to get an AGP-based system, take a look at the ASUS A8V Deluxe (around $124; great features), if you want an SLI system (not entirely worth it unless you get a 4000+ or FX-53/55 and a massive wallet full of cash), consider the A8V SLI-E Deluxe (about $181) unless you have another brand preference.

In most if not all bare-bones kits the MB, heatsink (good ~5800rpm ones around $35), CPU and even memory installation if you want can all be done for not very much at all. You would just have to screw the board in, plug in the wires, etc. I believe you can get an A8V Deluxe, A64 3500+ 90nm 939-pin CPU, and high-end Thermaltake heatsink for approximately $434 in a bare-bones kit along with the free stuff I mentioned.

I'm not sure about your price range but I'm assuming you want to keep it at or below $1000-1500? If so you'll be fine going the DIY route.

Just look around. Palimax will probably respond soon. :eek:

Indeed he might.

I paid $300 for my motherboard and a 3200+ 90nm 939 processor.

Here's exactly what I built, from the other thread:

Athlon 64 3200+ 939 .90nm processor (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=19-103-500&depa=1)
MSI K8T "Neo2-F" Via Chipset Motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-130-469&depa=1)
Thermalright XP120 Heatsink (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=35-109-118&depa=1) and a Panflo 120mm Fan (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=35-180-081&depa=1)
Western Digital 74g SATA Raptor (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=22-144-160&depa=1)
PDP Systems 1G DDR400 (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-220-030&depa=1)


All links are to NewEgg, but I got the motherboard combo from Monarch, and it included the HalfLife-2 and FarCry licenses.

Here's the 939 configurator at Monarch.

http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=M&Product_Code=80152

Don't buy your memory through them. Get the cheapest name you trust at NewEgg.

Get their $8 fan. They'll configure and pre-test your motherboard and flash-update your BIOS for you. Then get a REAL fan. Get something quiet. I don't have words other than "completely fucking silent" to describe how silent my machine is.

Read the other thread.
http://forums.ayonae.ro/showthread.php?t=6036

Pricewatch.com is a good place to go for these sorts of things, too.

Indeed, I love that site!

Oh! One thing I forgot to add: Pricewatch organizes your search results by price, not neccessarily by availability, and definitely not by the quality of the company you're ordering it from. You can save lots of money pricewatching, but you have to be careful about who you end up buying from... if they seem shady, they often are.

Also, if you're worried about accumulating shipping costs, they factor that into the price as well.

Get their $8 fan. They'll configure and pre-test your motherboard and flash-update your BIOS for you. Then get a REAL fan. Get something quiet. I don't have words other than "completely fucking silent" to describe how silent my machine is.

Read the other thread.
http://forums.ayonae.ro/showthread.php?t=6036

I am going to have disagree with you here. Unless you're getting something 3500+ or above, it would be smarter to get the retail cpu that includes fan and since it already comes with a fan, they dont force you to buy another one to still get the package deal. For some reason they are selling there retail 3000+ and retail 3200+, which includes fan and longer warrenty, cheaper then there oem cpu which doens't include a fan which means you would have to purchase one of there fans to still qualify for the package deal. Also if your going with monarch just because of the package deal you should really think if you need what your getting. I mean to me, the package is only worth 30 bucks since I would be only really using the half-life 2 to play online, not saying its a bad deal just weigh out your options first.

edit: napster deal is only 12 free downloads, not 4 months worth just fyi

I don't have words other than "completely fucking silent" to describe how silent my machine is.



MINES QUIETER! MUAHAHAHA

i hate taking the chance using pricewatch, unless its either monarch, ZZF, or newegg i usually don't buy over the net

if you are looking for cheap, the 754 A64 is not bad at all, even compared to 939, actually 939 doesn't really hold a huge lead over 754's in terms of performance, just stating incase you see a very cheap mobo/combo you like that includes a 3400+ 754

Hey Palimax whats the rpm on your western digital? Thats a brand I'm not familiar with. I got a seagate thats 7200 for the computer I just finished building, but my fellow techie friends said that there are "server" drives that are 10k.

Mdana, his drive is a 10,000 RPM SATA drive.

I've bought from countless different retailers on Pricewatch, and never had a problem with any of them. The only ones you should avoid are those with little to no positive ratings (as well as heavy negatives). Also check that their payment systems are secure and their website looks legit and well-visited. Truthfully, you're probably in more risk using ebay than Pricewatch.

Yes, the 754 A64s are great CPUs and an excellent deal, I only suggest the 939 (90nm) because of future upgradeability, as 939 is most likely going to be the staple format for future AMD CPUs, at least for a while.

However, if Chanur isn't planning on doing a CPU upgrade every year or two and doesn't mind the extra heat the 754 is definitely worth a look =).

Expandability is nice =p

Yes, the 754 A64s are great CPUs and an excellent deal, I only suggest the 939 (90nm) because of future upgradeability, as 939 is most likely going to be the staple format for future AMD CPUs, at least for a while.


kinda depends, dual cores are set to come out with 940 first before it hits 939, and amd is starting to say that maybe these current 939 boards won't be able to take the future dual core processors, hopefully with a flash they will kind of like the duron/sempron boards needed a flash to actually use a 166 buss =/

amd is making another refresh of their current cpu's, venice/san diego, these are set to come out in 939 with the venice having a 754 split off, so 754 isn't dead, yet

I am going to have disagree with you here. Unless you're getting something 3500+ or above, it would be smarter to get the retail cpu that includes fan and since it already comes with a fan, they dont force you to buy another one to still get the package deal. For some reason they are selling there retail 3000+ and retail 3200+, which includes fan and longer warrenty, cheaper then there oem cpu which doens't include a fan which means you would have to purchase one of there fans to still qualify for the package deal. Also if your going with monarch just because of the package deal you should really think if you need what your getting. I mean to me, the package is only worth 30 bucks since I would be only really using the half-life 2 to play online, not saying its a bad deal just weigh out your options first.

edit: napster deal is only 12 free downloads, not 4 months worth just fyiPrices change daily. If the retail boxed fan is cheaper today, go with it. If you want a QUIET solution, get the cheapest one that someplace like Monarch will test and pre-flash your motherboard with. (939 .90 processors often require a BIOS upgrade - one you can only do yourself if you happen to have ANOTHER 939 chip laying around to do the first boot!).

You don't need to purchase a fan to qualify for the package. If their *system* makes you do so, then it's in error.

Right now Monarch's boxed 939 .90 3200+ on a MSI Neo-F is $317. That's about $20 over Bboyz (who I'm not fond of) on Pricewatch.
Hey Palimax whats the rpm on your western digital? Thats a brand I'm not familiar with. I got a seagate thats 7200 for the computer I just finished building, but my fellow techie friends said that there are "server" drives that are 10k.I have some information in the other thread about drive. Yes, the Raptor is a 10,000 RPM drive, and it's also VERY quiet. It's arguably the fastest consumer drive you can purcahse. The new Maxtor Maxline and Seagate 300G SATAs are also pretty nice, but still slower than the Raptor. I suggest a boot partition on the Raptor, and data on a new Seagate (warranty longer than the Maxtor) if you need >100 gigs or so.
if you are looking for cheap, the 754 A64 is not bad at all, even compared to 939, actually 939 doesn't really hold a huge lead over 754's in terms of performance, just stating incase you see a very cheap mobo/combo you like that includes a 3400+ 754The only benefit of a .90 process is heat and power. If you're not a silent freak like me, it's not a big deal. If you are, it's a HUGE deal. The only benefit of the 939 form-factor is that it is the form of the future. The "high end" chips are 939 and motherboards, as a rule, are a little more advanced.
MINES QUIETER! MUAHAHAHAI doubt it. :) The loudest thing in my setup now is the electrical hum from the monitor.

Palimax, what would you suggest for a RAID controller? I'm trying to find a decently priced one that performs well for my home system so I can setup a RAID-5 with parity protection.

I realy don't have a home suggestion for RAID-5.

I've seen good reviews for the 3Ware Escalade (PATA), but it was pricey. They've got a lot of other products, but they all seem overpriced to me. *shrug*

3ware's 4-port SATA is about $300.
http://www.streetprices.com/Electronics/Computer_Hardware_PC/IO_Boards/3_to_7_Ports/SP1186815.html

(That's a low-profile card, I'm not sure if the backplane is high-profile, but it looks like it in pictures I've seen.)

There's an 8-SATA version as well.

I like my Asus A8V and my AMD 3400+. Lots of options for HDs.

Speaking of which, I just finished burning the latest beta of Windows XP Pro 64 bit. If I get it installed I'm gonna be a happy dude.

I doubt it. :) The loudest thing in my setup now is the electrical hum from the monitor.

I currently only have one 120mm fan running in my whole system, and on top of that its in this very very quiet case.

http://www.overclockercafe.com/Reviews/cases/Lian_Li_PC-V1100/

I currently only have one 120mm fan running in my whole system, and on top of that its in this very very quiet case.

http://www.overclockercafe.com/Reviews/cases/Lian_Li_PC-V1100
So, just so we're clear, no fan on the CPU - heat sink only? No fan on the power supply - passive? Video card with heatsink only? Single 120mm fan where?

Hmm, looks like we need a new thread here, heh.

Woot, good choice on the mobo, Dfrac. =)

So, just so we're clear, no fan on the CPU - heat sink only? No fan on the power supply - passive? Video card with heatsink only? Single 120mm fan where?

correct =)

Where is the single 120? What processor you keeping cool that way? What video?

I need to find that site that has a case thats a heatsink unto itself...damn what was it called...cost was about half what my new system was though. The tests they had run with it showed its temperature levels ran competitively (having no fans at all, beyond the chipset and I think the with several "silent" case designs with only a few bigger fans (like the 120mm Palimax was talking about) and that the sound level was non existant in comparison. God I can't remember what its called!

My machine, for comparisson's sake, has two 120mm fans (CPU and case), and one 140mm fan (power supply). All three fans are "quiet" to begin with (Panflows), and then they're all undervolted. The difference in noise between a fan at full speed and one throttled is dramatic.

For comparisson's sake, my "old" machine (a P4 2.4) in the living room now runs the television. I replaced the old 80G drive in it with a "quiet" 200G drive, under-volted both fans, and removed the "extra" 80mm fan from the power supply and it went from "annoying" to "nearly silent." It's probably still 10x louder than my Athlon machine, but at least it's not 100x louder.

Silence was golden for that machine because it's now running Media Center 2005 with a nice Dual-Tuner Hauppauge PVR-MCE-500 card. I'm *very* happy with the improvements to MCE2005 (over the original MCE release of XP), and I'm quite pleased with the ease of use of the Hauppauge 500. Hauppauge makes low-profile cards now, so I'm toying with the idea of replacing that machine with a mini/micro version down the line, but for now, it's in good shape. As long as I keep the old case in production, I'm probably going to pick up an old PS1 LCD add-on, and hack it to be a second display, and show... ...something on it.

Alot of good idea's here and will be getting something in the next week or so. Thanks alot for all the help. I do have another question though, what should I look for in a case? Are there certain ratings I should be looking at ? Any particular brands? Thanks alot.

Antec server cases are a good pick. They usually run pretty expensive, but have a lot of space in them and are easy to use (drive rail system for the 5'25" bays, slide away side panel for some) with pre installed mounts for the motherboards (basic four corners then extra slots for mounts if you so choose) usually have an air filter on them already. They also have front mounted USB and firewire (at least the one I got is) but they are a real pain in the ass to wire. They also almost always have fan mounts already in place that do not require screwing in anything, simply snap it in and its ready to go once you plug it in.

antec.com can give you some ideas, but their store for some reason does not have everything you can find on the normal site. Go to newegg.com and search antec, and it'll come up with what they have in stock.

On a side note, antec server cases are heavy. 35 pounds of steel, usually. You won't be breaking them anytime soon, and thats only if you're determined to.

Take a look at this one:

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=11-133-132&depa=0

That case is hawt...

I have this one. Bought it local for about the same price.
http://www.newegg.com/app/SearchProductResult.asp?DEPA=0

I use this power supply.
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-159-031&depa=0

ok ordering my system. I think I am going to order from monarch and just get a case and fans from them, so i dont really have to screw with it. Can anyone recommond a nice video card for the money. Right now i have a radeon 9800 in my spare comp, I would like something better but dont wanna pay 400+ dollars. Thanks :)

i'd suggest the 6600GT but its not worth the $200 more upgrade over that 9800 in my opinion, if you want to shell out (and have Pci-E) i'd suggest the x800XL, which can be bought for under 400, and it is dropping very fast

Well i will be keeping the other comp to dual box with i think so will probably end up getting the 6800GT or another 9800 i think.

the 6800 will more then likely cost you the $400 you didn't want to spend, it is a good card and worth the money (performance over the 9800)

hrmm might have to buckle down and spend it then. Thanks.

Nah, a good 6800 GT (256MB) is about $350.

if you want the best bang for your buck and your willing to take the risk, i suggest going with an old agp 6800 non-gt. people say that if you find a sale you can snag one for around 200ish dollars, not sure on that but i dont think it could that much more. they did go on sale for 200 bucks back then with rebate but thats long and gone by now.

anyways, there is a way to unlock all 16 pipes on this card to get big dollar peformance. i just briefly read through the thread i didnt really confirm there claims but people say that they are getting same peformance as 400+ video cards. the risk is that this will not work on all cards, but from the posts, its been working for ALOT of people. personally i love getting big dollar peformance for little money but supposedly it works only with agp vid cards and i dont have an agp slot. i would jump on this if i was building a low buck system with an agp slot and was able to find this card for around 200 bucks.

unlocking the pipes supposedly doesnt do any harm to the card, you can always uninstall and go back to the orginal settings. if your worried about not getting a card where this will work you can always just find a brick and mortar store that is selling this for cheap and buy/return untill you get the card that is able to unlock all 16 pipes.

anyways do some research before you buy, i just hate the fact that its agp only or i would of been all over this.

pros:
cheap card
big buck peformance

cons:
finding the card for cheap
the fact that getting everything unlock is random

i didnt do much research on it but you should if your in the market. heres the thread.

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=841145&page=1&pp=20


oh btw, i bought a cheap water kit for my system. my only fan is the 120mm on the radiator, i bought a cheap waterblock for my vid card, and i have a fanless psu (bought it that way).

it won't give the same performance unless you are buying the asus V9999, which comes with GDDR3 over the normal 6800's DDR1


it is a good card, good performance, has a little enthusiasm in it but won't go very far, i'd still suggest the 6800GT over it if you are willing to buckle down and pay the $400 for it, and if you are interested in OC'ing at all it will go past ultra speeds which the 6800vanilla can not do

it won't give the same performance unless you are buying the asus V9999, which comes with GDDR3 over the normal 6800's DDR1


it is a good card, good performance, has a little enthusiasm in it but won't go very far, i'd still suggest the 6800GT over it if you are willing to buckle down and pay the $400 for it, and if you are interested in OC'ing at all it will go past ultra speeds which the 6800vanilla can not do

"The GeForce 6800 (or as some people call it, the “Non Ultra”) is also based on the same NV40 GPU that the GeForce 6800Ultra is. So that means it supports every single 3D and 2D feature that the GeForce 6800Ultra does. The difference is that it has been reduced in performance to meet its target audience, which is $200 less than the GeForce 6800Ultra. To make this happen NVIDIA downgraded it to 12 pixel pipelines and 5 vertex shader units as well as reducing the core and memory speed. Those are the only changes that were made, so only performance is affected.

To refresh yourself on all the features and specifications for the GeForce 6 series of video cards, please read our GeForce 6 Series Tech Article (http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NjA1) which goes into much more detail on the specifications.

To sum up the differences here is what we have:

GeForce 6800Ultra = 256MB GDDR3, 16 pipelines, 6 vertex units, 400MHz/1.1GHz
GeForce 6800 = 128MB GDDR, 12 pipelines, 5 vertex units, 325MHz/700MHz"

Remember, the whole GeForce 6 series will all have the same technology and features. "

edit: above taken from hardocp.com

It wont reach the ultra speeds but it will get you very close for almost half the price, if you can unlock the extra pipes.

it won't give the same performance unless you are buying the asus V9999, which comes with GDDR3 over the normal 6800's DDR1


quoting the nvidia website only the 6800 GT, 6800 Ultra, and 6600 GT use DDR3, not the 6800 non-gt. The 6800 GT/ultra and 6600 GT all use GDDR3.

the asus V9999 gamer edition uses GDDR3, its possibly the worste bang for the buck card out there, its priced at almost exactly as the GT is but its a 12/5 card, not exactly that good

and the DDR1 is the reason for it not reaching the GT in actual performance, since i believe it will only reach an effective 350x2 on the memory where as the GT is at 500-550x2

you dont know anything about computers, gokuu.

the asus V9999 gamer edition uses GDDR3, its possibly the worste bang for the buck card out there, its priced at almost exactly as the GT is but its a 12/5 card, not exactly that good

and the DDR1 is the reason for it not reaching the GT in actual performance, since i believe it will only reach an effective 350x2 on the memory where as the GT is at 500-550x2

care to link the card and your info?

http://usa.asus.com/products/vga/v9999ge/overview.htm

•High-Speed DDR3 memory interface and 10-layer PCB design provide over 25% better performance.

and before you claim its a GT in disguise heres there gt/ultra

http://usa.asus.com/products/vga/v9999ultra/overview.htm

http://usa.asus.com/products/vga/v9999gt/overview.htm

ah, interesting. its not that i didnt believe you or anything its just that i couldnt find it for some reason.

i looked up the price and lowest i could find 400 bucks. for that kind of money there is no reason why you shouldnt just get yourself a GT/ultra. if you can unlock the extra pipes on a 6800 that you could snag for under 300 dollars, id bet the performance of that and this card would be very close since the asus v9999 only has 12 pipes.

oh no, my comment wasn't ment to be snide

it would be, another thing to remember would be the fact that these are the cards with the lower grade GPU's stuck on them, not to mention lower Vcore's, so to get it to be comparable to GT's you'd need to flash them

theres alot of risk taking into these when unlocking, you can roll them back, sometimes how ever if you do unlock a bad pipe, or VS it won't roll that particular one back, it could keep the bad one and roll a good one

the V9999 higher grades are worth it, they are like the BFG's OC cards that come with warranties, not to mention i've always liked asus

Just a side note, but I've heard of assorted problems associated with the BFG OC'ed 6800 cards, like freezing, etc.

For the last PC I built for someone I used a 6800 Ultra, but turned away from the BFG/Asylum (even though overclock under warranty is pretty cool).

I've always like PNY better. Would have used ASUS, but they were a tad too expensive on the pure Ultra line (I think theirs is the 'Extreme Edition'). Their mobos are a great deal though =).

the UE was released in very very few quantities, about 1/100th of the XTPE (to give you an idea of how rare they are)

i used to like PNY till a batch of their cards were sent to compusa with missing capacitors and not letting customers return the card

the asus does have the ultra, and ultra extreme, and yea they are always a few bucks over MSRP, but which high end card isn't =/

i used to like PNY till a batch of their cards were sent to compusa with missing capacitors and not letting customers return the card

Yikes, which generation of card was that? Were they shipped to CompUSA only or elsewhere too?

it was a special compusa had, the 6800NU which was like for $200, only one problem was a majority of them had missing/looser capacitors, pretty recent

Well for anyone that might be curious. I ended up going with an Athalon 64 3.2 939 90nm and that Asus AV8 deluxe. I also got the Thermaltake Dream tower case, and mostly Thermaltake heatsynks and a Thermaltake 560watt powersupply. For now I have a 200gig western digital hardrive, if I find the performance not up to snuff I will see about snaging one of those Raptors Pali got. I got 2 gigs of 400mhz ram with copper heat syncs and a PNY 6800GT video card. I hope its a slight improvement over my p2.4 1gig system with a 128 meg Radeon 9800. Will let you guys know as soon as everything comes in the mail. Thanks a ton for all the advice also! Especially the dozen or so PM's from Cados!

man, that system will be night and day compared to that 2.4

Damn I cant wait. Gonna test it on the free copy of Far Cry I am getting. I played it on my old system and will try it on the new one to see how it does.

I got 2 gigs of 400mhz ram2 @ 1Gig or 4 @ 512?

it was 4@512

Someone mentioned the "heatsink case" few pages back(just read whole thread).

Your talking about this:

http://www.zalman.co.kr/eng/product/view.asp?idx=64&code=020

I bought one awhile ago (they surprisingly havn't gotten any cheaper), least to me seems worth its price, though I doubt most people relish paying as much for the case as all the other parts combined.

it was 4 @ 512

I'm going to be very interested to see if you can run all four at 400. Keep me posted. Most 939 boards I've seen can't do them all.

No idea that that could ever be an issue =p but if the comp doesnt freak out ill likely never know the difference.

from the board manufactures web sites, they will run 4 sticks, but if they tend to run them at 333 depending on the type of ram

Hrmm would i be better off trying to get 2 sticks of 1 gig later? Would it be benificial to me to only run 3 sticks of the stuff now? Thanks for the info also guys.

that may be the nforce chipset though im thinking of. But from all ive read on it increaseing ram still increases performance. And the nforce chip sets seem to tend to edge the via by a little, so i cant see as it being anything dramatic reguardless.

It doesn't have ANYTHING to do with the type of RAM, only the number of modules. I honestly don't know of a 939 board that can operate all four at 400.

By the manufacturers charts, yeah it does matter, as far as Dual Channel and Single channel is concerned anyway(AMD64 chips can treat single as double for performance reasons anyhow) There is a chart on Here (http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=K8N_Neo4_Platinum&class=mb) that shows the peticulars on nForce boards, I dont know if it works the same way on Via chipsets.

Ok. Let me be clear. It doesn't have to do anything with BRAND of RAM. If you have double-density memory in both banks, you're running at 333. If you want two gigs of memory, you'd better be running two 1G sticks in the same bank.

I have an MSI-based 939 board. No reason to show me the chart. I brought it up in the first place :)

misunderstanding on the word 'type'. i meant single or double with it. not brand.

Bah wish I had known that about the Ram before. I guess ill run the 4 sticks at 333 for now and get 2 sticks of 1 gig down the road a bit.

For all practical purposes, it's probably not worth the extra cost to replace that. That is to say unless good DDR400 suddenly becomes much cheaper than it is. Try it and see what frequency the RAM does run at, DDR333 vs. DDR400 isn't going to be worth spending (another) fortune for.

That said, perhaps there is a reasonable return policy on that RAM?

I could check into the return policy for the ram. Im still fighting with that website i tried to order the video card from. Its been over 9+ days already and I still have neither a card or a refund from them, so going to try calling again and find out wtf is going on.

What website was that chan?

I think he used, http://3btech.net/pnyge6825ddg.html ..right?

Its been all taken care of :D

Were they out of stock? Slow shipping?

My bank didnt credit my account till several days after it was posted, and when i called Dbtech didnt know where the money was. So a few days later it poped onto my account as being there since a few days prior. Was strange but no big deal once i found out what was going on. That being said i reordered and it should be here in a day or two. woot!