Saddam Hussein Believed Captured in Iraq!!!

TEHRAN, Iran — Saddam Hussein (search), the former Iraqi dictator and most-wanted figure by the U.S.-led coalition, has been captured in Iraq, U.S. officials believe.

Saddam, who ruled Iraq for 23 years until his ouster in April, has been a fugitive since then with a $25 million bounty on his head.

Rumors about Saddam's capture or death periodically surface, and a hotline set up by the occupation authorities for tips on his whereabouts is flooded with callers.

www.foxnews.com/story/0,2...06,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,105706,00.html)

Tony Blair confirmed.
If there's one thing that's come out of this entire shitty thing - this is it.


GOT THE FUCKER!

DNA testing confirmed.

No shit...? I'm still skeptical =\

I wonder if Saddam was the Ace of Spades in the deck. Anyway....One down. One to go.

Where's Osama!?

About fucking time.

Yeesh, he looks old.

Laughed coke out of my nose when the doctor was giving him the One Over medical exam.
Nice beared, asshole!

People are marching in the street celebrating, thats so fucking cool. I hope they introduce him to a little mustard gas or other bioweapons that I can't spell......

Should we take bets on who the first liberal/communist says, "That's great, but you still haven't gotten bin Laden"? Someone will say it.. Howard Dean, Al Franken?

You still haven't gotten bin laden!

Congradulations to the US Military and Coalition Forces. Proud of ya.

People are marching in the street celebrating
100 are celebrating, millions are furious and wish dead upon the invaders. But those are not being shown on TV, of course.
They are not for Hussein (at least most not), but they are absolutely against the invaders.
Capturing Hussein is good, but it does not help the iraqi people one tiny bit at all, does it?
During the media conference the US reporters asked about Hussein, what he said, how he got captured, who gonna get the 25 millions. The arab reporters all asked about the future of Iraq, when they gonna get their country back, when they gonna get their rights back, a working system. Those are the matters that iraqi people are concerned about. And the only thing that matters.

But of course capturing Hussein is a huge boost for Bush which he will use left and right for the next election.

Don't get me wrong. I am glad he got caught, but in the big picture, it doesn't matter. he had no more power, he never had WoMD since decades, he never had any ties with Al Qaida, he never had anytihng to do with any terrorist attacks against the US. So for the iraqi people and for the war on terror, this has no influence at all.
Go capture Bin Laden, give iraqi people a working system, food and medical supplies, go look after Afghanistan, by the way (this county is in worse shape then it ever was and people already start asking the taliban back because back then they had it better), and after all, go clean up in the worst shithole of terror, the US's biggest oil supplier and personal friends, the Saudi Arabs, then we can talk.

This is my personal view and I don't plan on starting any flames. Just wanted to have thrown in my 2cp about it.

Oh, im sure Osama will get his day. There is no doubt. The US has alread stated many times the the Hussein was a goal not the end.

I don't think you should underestimate Saddam's power. He may not be in a palace anymore, but nonetheless I think he still had influence. Had being the operative word. I don't think that will be the case anymore. Not necessarily direct influence, of course, but the power to keep people in fear, to prevent them from talking, and so forth. It may even soften up the resistance that keeps rolling in the coalition bodies, and likewise for Iraqi bodies.
No Taino, it is a good day, it's a thing worth celebrating that he's captured.

Yes its a good thing. But it doesn't mean jack for the war on terror or even the iraqi people. All that happens now is that Saddam will be an icone, a martyr to the people that believe in him, making it all worse. Don't expect things to go smooth now.

I disagree.
I think it will be a blow. Will it mean the entire nation will now be healed, and work together to build a better country? No.
I think the country is ruined. But it has been for a while. The entire war was built on false pretensions and motivations.
But out of mistakes, some good can come. And I think this is one of those good elements in a disaster.
I think resistance will wain, I think fear will dissolve some.
None of it will dissapear of course, but I think it will contribute at least a little.

I guess its a matter of perception. Glass half full/half empty kind of thing. Here in The States they show blocks FULL of Iraqi peoples just going goofy celebrating. Reading many quotes on news services and on TV interviews many Iraqi people feel much more at ease not that the major threat is gone. They feel they can truly express there feelings now and can move on. Of course there will be people that do not share this view and will blow themselfs up but the VAST majorit are a bit more optimistic then you Taino. And least thats how I see it. Like I said. It's all in how you viewd the war in the first place.

Actually it's quite funny in regards to that.
When I woke up this morning to the news, BBC News24 were commenting on the "mass-celebration". They showed 2 images. One of a man firing 3 rounds in to the air from a pistol, and one from a woman crying. They repeated these for about half hour until they begun showing another, of a man waving his hands in the air.

I think they re-defined mass-celebration.

How do you have any slight clue about how the iraqi people feel?
All you see on TV are those few dozens people that celebrate in the center of Baghdad, those few truly western oriented people. But there are some 22 millions other people. You have no clue how they feel. Of course they don't start an open war because they have no chance against the invadors. I don't know how they feel either.
I just heared from several sources in the past months that the iraqi people really are not that happy. They didn't have a good life under Saddam, but they had food and medical treatment. Not a lot, but more then now. And they didn't have war. Those people sure don't see any good in your invasion (yet?).
Remember, all we see on TV is a few dozens that celebrate. Just like we saw 100 people that pushed the Saddam statue on the ground as Baghdad fell. Those picutres go aorund the world again and again day in day out.
There were 3 iraqi reporters in the media conference, all happy and celebrating and shouting. The pictures of those 3 reporters were shown on CNN for a whole hour at least 20 times over and over again, to give us all the impression that iraqi people are absolutely fucking happy.
But the other 20 iraqi reporters didnt shout and yell. I also didn't see any pictures of millions on the streets celebrating.
I don't say people are not happy he got caught. I just say noone has a friggen clue how those poeple actually feel.
I just heared many reports that they are not really happy, even some said they have a worse life now.

actually, bush is saving the bin laden capture for the week before next years election ;) .

In all seriousness, you have to ask yourself a question when dealing with complicated (actually its pretty simple when you scrape away all the bullshit) situations like this.

Do i care what other people think of me or am i gonna do the next right thing? Thank god Bush has the balls to do the right thing instead of playing that bullshit political game of trying to make everyone happy.

in a perfect world id like to see both the all Iraqi people happy with what we are doing in their country and our country be safe from what we percieve as threats to our security *(and before you go off on a tangeant arguing the point that has been beaten to death repeatedly about whether or not these countries are indeed a threat, just realize that although clinton casterated our inteligence services, the United States still has the greatest recources (both people and technology) in the world for gathering information and most of it is not gonna be released to the public nor would i want it to)* but as the recently deceased Greg W use to tell me:

"I love you, and id do anything i can to help you out, but if it comes between your ass and my ass, you can kiss your fucking ass goodbye"

And how do you know that the iraqi community is sullen and downtrodden they the tyrant is captured. I saw HUNDREDS of people in the streets. Sorry Taino but this is a great day and the iraqi people are free. I'm also proud to hear the the main Force was the 4th Infantry Div. Most of them re out of my home town of Colorado Springs. Good job guys.

Osgiliath, to suggest the Iraqi people are free is extremely naive, and well.. stupid.

'Thank god Bush has the balls to do the right thing instead of playing that bullshit political game of trying to make everyone happy.'

- HAHAHAHAHA.
Oh, oh my sides.

At the very least, this should result in a very good line of "owned" pictures, involving dirty-Saddam

Thank you Taino and Halo....for coming through and being the usual sticks in the mud that you are. You are as predictable as a case of bad gas after a bean burrito.

Saddam's capture can mean whatever it is you interpret, but as a person in the military, this means a giant leap toward mission accomplishment. Once the work is done, which is rounding up the thugs, US troops will go where they belong, which is home to their families and friends and careers (for those in the Reserves and National Guard) and leave Iraq to the Iraqis to do with what they please.

If you can't view it in a positive, at least view it as a step towards closure.

I thought I was actually being quite positive.

But I wouldn't address our predictability.
You and yours don't exactly dance to a new beat every argument.
Bloody idiot.

I have come to the realization that people like Taino need people like Saddam. It gives taino a common enemy in the USA. With US victories he grasps reason after reason to hate the US. Eventually you'll run out of reasons and will be force to join us...you will be assimilated. oh jesus i did not get enough sleep.

And people like Bush need people like Saddam.
Who else would he accuse of having WoMD?! Surely not the Koreans.

Halo, let me address your ever so clever statement:

YOU and your ilk typically bad mouth both my country and my boss. I predicably will find no reason to tollerate it. So yes, I am predictable.

The Dutch.

Taino I've been going out of my way not to smack you about the head and shoulders lately.

BUT!!!

You goofball dumbass...

It's the media that has been hounding how hated we are over in Iraq. It's actually the opposite, in real life the majority of Iraqi's have been supporting and celebrating our actions.

How do I know? Well since I have actually been there, and have friends over there right now telling me weekly I would gather my source is hella more accurate than anything you grub up from that fucking stone you live under.

Now, sit your AntiAmerican lying inbred ass down and shut the fuck up. I'm sick of your lies and innuendo's, I tire of your spoonfed rhetoric and by god I will have a chunk of your ass here on the boards if you don't read and study real world info before you open that mushy mouth of yours.

I agree with Halo here, this is a huge blow to the insurgents and an even bigger relief to the very SaddamPhobic people of Iraq. The continuing footage is showing growing celebrations. Iraqi reporters shouting our Death to Saddam during press meetings is but a glimpse.

Now, stay tooned as his evils are shown to the worlds light during his trial.

Also stay tooned as Taino sucks at the hind tit of the usual misinformation cow that he's lived under his entire life.

You sad sad lil fuck.

Christopher...

/salutes the troops that busted their collective ass's off to find this madman. Too bad America Mililtary can't collect on the 25 Mill bounty. /chuckle

Taino I've been going out of my way not to smack you about the head and shoulders lately.
Actually, I didnt make any political post for months. Don't pat yourself on the back for it.

I also don't plan on adding anything to it.
You enjoy living in your dream world of millions of iraqi people kissing american people's feet. Its always a very easy, comfortable and relaxing way of thinking that everyone is fine you and only you are right.

You also believe Saddam had direct influence in 9/11 and that he and Bin Laden are actually friends, right? :)

He's not a sad fuck.
He brings to light what is true, don't jump to the conclusion of mass-celebration, freedom, and liberation at the sight of a few media-inflated images.
Saddam's capture could well only heighten the tensions and agression of the resistance. You've no clue whatsoever. And we know this is what the media spins best (surely we learnt this from the statue-propoganda?).

'YOU and your ilk typically bad mouth both my country and my boss. I predicably will find no reason to tollerate it. So yes, I am predictable.'

- So you're complaining we're predictable, by being predictable yourself?
One of us is very confused. And I honestly don't know which.

Nah, I don't see a personal link twixt Osama and Saddam.

However boyo, it is you living in your antiamerican dream world that makes it all the more laughable.

Have you ever been to the Mideast? Nope

Have you been a part of the action in the MIdeast? Nope

Do you have family/friends currently serving in the Mideast? Nope

You just keep rubberstamp mealy mouthing your usual shit son.

Hell, I'll go you one better. Show your convictions and talk yer shit in a bar during yer visit to NYC. Should be interesting for ya....

Christopher...

Halo, he doesn't bring to light what is true. He merely spouts out half truths and uninformed propaganda.

The entire "Millions of American hating Iraqi" bullshit is being proved wrong daily.

But you are right I think. There will be an immediate surge of violence, in an effort to bolster their own spirits.

BUTTTT I think once that's broken down they'll find it tougher and tougher to rally against a Free Iraq. More and more locals are turning in insurgents. They want them gone so they can get about rebuilding their own country.

Christopher...

Taino how do YOU know that the majority of the Iraqi populace isn't happy? You are speculating. And then trying to consider your speculation fact via a huge journalist conspiracy. No educated person would talk like that.

You realize that most of the US journalist community are liberal aye? It used to not be that way, back in the day American journalists would go out of their way to defend government(especially acts of war) decisions. Of course Vietnam then flipped that right around. And that has developed the current day American journalist community. Most(besides Fox News) would have no problem throwing the current presidency under the bus via images of pissed off Iraqi's.

But that might not be the case. i won't make the same ignorant mistake you are, I won't speculate based on wild conspiracy theory.

Taino.

The Saddam/Terrorism connection isnt that obvious.. and mostly its a matter of theory.. but its strong theory.

No Saddam and Osama do not know each other, and put in the same room with each other, would probably try to kill each other.. but..
They do have a connection.

First we have to acknowledge that the MiddleEast is a broken, disfunctional region. There are various reasons for this, and those are good for another thread.. but the fact remains is that it is fucked up, and producing a Nihlistic, suicidal generation bending to the will of Extremists and Maniacs...

How did the middle east get there?
Instability, Oppression and Tyranny.
Nations there are ruled by Iron Fisted tyrants. Baathist Party isnt unique to Iraq.. They rule Syria as well.

To free Iraq, the center of the Middle East, is a HUGE shift for the region. A free open dynamic society WILL change the entire Area in massive ways.
The infrastructure is there in Iraq, the people are educated and have a tradition of less radical society.
We are doing a full scale Marshal Plan style rebuilding of this nation.
Remember.. it was 10 YEARS before germany was done with "pacification".
But look what Germany became, an economic powerhouse, a massively capable economic force.
Germany was ready for that move, it had a educated population, with the right traditions and when pointed in the right direction after the damage of only a decade of Hitler.
Remember that Saddam ruled IRaq for multiple decades.. the Damage will take a while to undo.. but when it is..
And Iraq is pointed in the right direction.
huge natural resources.
educated Population
Modern, expansive infrastructure
Close (beyond close as we will make SURE they succeed) relationship with the Western powers.

A counterbalance to Iran.. Can they resist change with Iraq becoming what the people of Iran want so badly to become?
A beacon of hope. Will the lies and deceptions of Al-Queda and its Ilk seem so likely with a nation of Muslims doing everything they say is impossible?
A stabilizing Force. The Balace is now toward modernization and advancement. Egypt, Jordan, Kuwait... and add Iraq in 5 years.

Tanio,

Your an idiot pretending to somehow speak for everyone who is not American....excuse me but who voted you to be that voice? Your uninformed, and your posts sound ignorant.....

Today's events mark the begining of a new era for the people of Iraq. Those people who overwhelmingly agree with the removal of Sadaam. Soon the rebuilding of Iraq will be complete and the country will have a democratic leadership.

I could give a rat's ass about how you interpret this, because anyone with a brain understands that this man was a criminal and deserves to be in handcuffs....

Sorry Taino but this is a great day and the iraqi people are free. I'm also proud to hear the the main Force was the 4th Infantry Div. Most of them re out of my home town of Colorado Springs. Good job guys

Muhahahahaha
Free? with US army everywhere? You must be kidding.... :rollin

And you must be clueless?

Thank you Taino for coming through and being the usual sticks in the mud that you are. You are as predictable as a case of bad gas after a bean burrito.

I fixed that for ya. You're being nothing more then a troll insulting halo when he was being positive on the first page.

Well, it went one page without flames, more then I expected.

<img border=0 src="http://imageshack.us/files/2597.jpg" />

Taino how do YOU know that the majority of the Iraqi populace isn't happy

I don't know how they feel either.
....
I don't say people are not happy he got caught. I just say noone has a friggen clue how those poeple actually feel.
I just heared many reports that they are not really happy, even some said they have a worse life now.

Take a camera onto any street in the world..
As enough people the same question, eventually someone will tell you want to hear.

The only way to judge whats happening in Iraq would be for a polling firm to go in there and do a accurate unbiased op Poll..

Holy shit I just woke up.

Unbelievable!

The world will now be rid of one of the worst human beings in history.

Ya Taino you also said...

"100 are celebrating, millions are furious and wish dead upon the invaders. But those are not being shown on TV, of course."

So your dumbass is speculating. And contradicting yourself aswell. Thanks for making yourself look like a fool.

The world will now be rid of one of the worst human beings in history.

Woooahhh! Kim Jong-il died?!?!

ooops sorry, forgot that USA doesn't give a shit about North Korea.... :\

Typical asinine response.

Even Halo managed to impress me with his eloquence and decency in this thread, but you manage to offset that with your pointless bullshit.

Now shut the fuck up you bitch ass troll.

Dholyan state your annon ass country you are hidding behind or STFU.

He's from France.

Figures.

Why doesnt France do something about NK?

Oh ya.. wait.. too busy selling them Nuclear Reactors.

This is great news but part of me still wishes he had gone the route of Uday and Qusay and got his ass illed kay.

Why the hell do you care about my nationality Soledorin.....?!
Do you tell us your nationality each time you post? no? then stfu plzkkthx

I don't give a rat ass if you are american, spanish, french, japanese, or chinese.....

My opinions, the way i think, have nothing to do with the fact that I come from france......

Yea it does matter because these BS remarks come from someone whos country is doing WHAT?????? How dare you ask what the US is doing with Korea. Do you remember the Korean war? We are not immune to Korea fuck face...start a different topic on it because this isn't about Korea. This is about a huge victory for the people of Iraq.

maybe we should handle Muslims the way the french do?
Maybe go on some "Rattonades"?

maybe kill 1.5 Million people..

Here's a sample of Aussaresses' prose, as published in the liberal Le Monde of Paris (May 3): "Those we brought to Tourelles [a torture center run by the French army's intelligence service] were sufficiently implicated in terrorist activity that there was no way we were going to release them alive. On busy days, when all the regiments were overwhelmed with prisoners, they would send me everybody they had no time to interrogate. At Tourelles, as at the regimental headquarters, torture was always used if a prisoner refused to talk....When the suspects had talked and seemed to have nothing more to say...my men would take a batch of them out in the bush, 20 kilometers or so from Algiers, shoot them down with a machine-gun burst, then bury them.

"Regimental headquarters also sent me prisoners they had interrogated and who were no longer useful. Nobody ever asked me what I planned to do with these people. Long story short: when the army wanted to get rid of somebody, he would end up at Tourelles." After recounting incident after incident of torture and summary execution, Aussaresses said he'd be willing to do it all again.

Taino... I respect your opinion even if it is based on European propaganda, and even if you are coming across as a dumb ass. Do a little bit of research and fact gathering before you come to these boards spouting out your retarded remarks. I for one hope you choke on your Lindt chocolat. It's one thing to disagree with the war in Iraq, but it's another to be so biased that you misconstrue the facts.

------------------------------------------------------------
IC Birmingham

Iraq celebrates capture Dec 14 2003


Saddam Hussein, wearing a fake beard and burying himself in a cellar floor in an attempt to hide from US troops, was captured alive close to his hometown of Tikrit, the Iraqi Governing Council said.

The arrest at Ad Dawr was a major victory for the US-led coalition that has been battling an insurgency for months.

Celebratory gunfire erupted in Baghdad and other cities in Iraq. Radio stations played celebratory music and people drove through the streets of the capital, shouting, "They got Saddam! They got Saddam!"

In a statement, the US-appointed Governing Council confirmed that Saddam was arrested in a joint operation by troops from the US-led coalition and Kurdish Iraqi forces.

"He was wearing a fake beard and laboratory tests have proven his identity beyond any doubt," the statement said.

"On this occasion, the Governing Council would like to congratulate the Iraqi people and the entire human race on this huge victory," it said.

Some US military commanders, however, have warned the insurgency that has claimed the lives of several hundred coalition troops would not necessarily end after Saddam's capture.

In London, Prime Minister Tony Blair confirmed that Saddam had been captured alive in Iraq, saying in a statement that he was apprehended.

"This is very good news for the people of Iraq. It removes the shadow that has been hanging over them for too long of the nightmare of a return to the Saddam regime," his statement said.

In Washington, US military officials said soldiers had captured a man in the basement of a building in Tikrit during raids seeking Saddam. Initial efforts to verify his identity indicated he is Saddam, the officials said on condition of anonymity.

"It certainly looks good," one senior US official said, cautioning more scientific testing, possibly DNA, was being done to try to confirm the identity.

The official said the captured man did not look like Saddam.

Trapped in a cellar, Saddam dug a hole and buried himself as US soldiers moved into the house where he was hiding, an Iraqi official said today.

"The American soldiers had to use shovels to dig him out," Entifadh Qanbar, spokesman for Governing Council member Ahmad Chalabi, told The Associated Press.

Qanbar, basing his account on reports from members of the US-led occupation authority, said Saddam had a salt-and-pepper beard when he was captured. Soldiers photographed him, shaved the beard and photographed him again before running DNA tests, he said.

"The DNA test confirmed 100 per cent Saddam Hussein's identity," he said.

Qanbar said the capture took place "in a town very close to Tikrit," Saddam's hometown 160 kilometers (100 miles) north of Baghdad.

Council member Dara Noor al-Din said the body was informed of the former dictator's capture in a telephone call from L Paul Bremer, the US administrator for Iraq.

"Bremer has confirmed to the Governing Council that Saddam was captured in Tikrit," Noor al-Din said. "He spoke on the phone to several members, including Ahmad Chalabi."

Chalabi is a leading member of the council who has close links to the US administration of President George W Bush.

"I'm very happy for the Iraqi people. Life is going to be safer now," said 35-year-old Yehya Hassan, a resident of Baghdad. "Now we can start a new beginning."

Shop owners closed their doors, worried that all the shooting would make the streets unsafe.

A Governing Council spokesman, speaking on condition of anonymity, said a council delegation planned to visit Saddam in captivity later today.

Another Governing Council member, Jalal Talabani, told Iran's official news agency, IRNA, that Saddam's detention will bring stability to Iraq.

"With the arrest of Saddam, the source financing terrorists has been destroyed and terrorist attacks will come to an end. Now we can establish a durable stability and security in Iraq," Talabani was quoted as saying.

After invading Iraq on March 20 and setting up their headquarters in Saddam's sprawling Republican Palace compound in Baghdad, US troops launched a massive manhunt for the fugitive leader, placing a US 25 million bounty on his head and sending thousands of soldiers to search for him.

Saddam's sons Qusai and Odai - each with a US 15 million bounty on their heads - were killed on July 22 in a four-hour gunbattle with US troops in a hideout in the northern city of Mosul. The bounties were paid out to the man who owned the house where they were killed, residents said.

In Baghdad, residents fired small arms in the air in celebration after hearing the news of Saddam's capture. Earlier in the day, rumors of the capture sent people streaming into the streets of Kirkuk, a northern Iraqi city, firing guns in the air in celebration.

"We are celebrating like it's a wedding," said Kirkuk resident Mustapha Sheriff. "We are finally rid of that criminal."

"This is the joy of a lifetime," said Ali Al-Bashiri, another resident. "I am speaking on behalf of all the people that suffered under his rule."

In Tikrit, US soldiers from the 4th Infantry Division, the unit that is responsible for security in Saddam's hometown, were smoking cigars after hearing the news of Saddam's capture.

Despite the celebration throughout Baghdad, many residents were skeptical.

"I heard the news, but I'll believe it when I see it," said Mohaned al-Hasaji, a 33-year-old owner of a cosmetics shop. "They need to show us that they really have him."

Ayet Bassem, 24, walked out of a shop with her six-year-old son.

"Things will be better for my son," she said. "Everyone says everything will be better when Saddam is caught. My son now has a future."

'The world will now be rid of one of the worst human beings in history. '

- Hartmut killed himself?

Halo is slowly becoming a friend to the Americans on this board just from comments on this thread alone.

My opinions, the way i think, have nothing to do with the fact that I come from france......Oh, god, the laughter...

No, seriously. Of *course* where you're from influences your opinions. You'd be foolish to think otherwise. To at least a small extent - and probably to a much larger extent - we're all a little part of the hive-mind of those we live, eat, and sleep with every day of our waking lives. Welcome to society. It's fun! Stay a while!

--

Moving on, as I've understood it, removing Sadam from the picture does three big things. (a) it povides another checkmark on the list of things we need to do before significantly reducing our military presense in Iraq, primarily because of (b) Sadam's capture's positive effect on the morale of people still living in fear in Iraq because he's alive, and (c) Sadam's capture's negative effect on the morale of those still fighting against the US in the region.

I especially enjoy the people who went out of their way to shit on this thread. You guys are wonderful. I knew a few of you were charter members of the "USA is teh evil!1" club already, but it was nice to see a few more of you claim your seats on the bus.

Maybe we'll eventually become as "enlightened" as our friends in Western Europe... ...maybe not. :)

*swings a stick around*
I'm no American friend. STAY BACK!

C'mere Halo...

Gives us a hug!~~~

/grin

Christopher...

DNA testing confirmed

Yeah thats by far the most wonderfull news I heard.
They where able to do a 24 hour test in 12 hours, thats brilliant.
They should get the Nobel price because thats a scientific breakthrough.
In 12 hours best you can get is a preliminary result, granted this is also DNA however it is not nearly as accurate as the thurough test thats takes about 24hours and has a 99.999% certainty.
If you don't mind I start cellibrating after these test results come in.

If you had some intelligence, let alone could spell more than three words correctly, I might take you serious, until then, piss off. You are about as worthless as an anon board troll trying to sell plat and sarnak battle shields for hundreds of dollars.

Disappear.

Lummus, i am bad mouthing our boss as we speak. E-5 BAH did not go up this year for the 95123 area code! 8(

No, seriously. Of *course* where you're from influences your opinions. You'd be foolish to think otherwise. To at least a small extent - and probably to a much larger extent - we're all a little part of the hive-mind of those we live, eat, and sleep with every day of our waking lives. Welcome to society. It's fun! Stay a while!

I'm sorry, when a president is elected, he usually gets around 55% of the votes, which means the other 45% didn't care at all, or voted for someone else.

Even if you agree with a president/governement you didn't vote for doesn't mean you're influenced by it, at least here (i'm french, sup) i know a lot of people not influenced by their country's policy, there's a lot of people against it, a lot for it and some who don't care about it (that includes me).

I have no idea how it is in the states, so i can't say anything about it, but please respect the fact that in france and in alot of other countries some people aren't influenced by their governement, nor represent it.

'If you had some intelligence, let alone could spell more than three words correctly, I might take you serious,'

- English isn't his first language.
Incredibly lame trying to flame someone on that. Usually means you've no material to actually flame him for.
Let's hear you speak at least one European language fluently Shew.

There are other languages other then American?

merican's speak l337?

"'The world will now be rid of one of the worst human beings in history. '

- Hartmut killed himself? "

my god, almost killed myself laughing

Quiero cojere la madre y la hermana de Haloface a mismo tiempo.

Quiero cojere la madre y la hermana de Haloface a mismo tiempo.

It is "cojer" and "al mismo tiempo".

/comfort Shewdog

EDIT: Sig nerfed Dholy, dont forget to click it off.

Lemme tell ya something..

Im about this >< close to turning in the entirety of LOTJ to Jack Bauer and CTU..

Black Helicopters motherfucker.. be watching for that shit. When you see red light beam.. its your ass Mr. Postman.

LoTJ is one season of The Real World "Sweden" from turning into an Al-QUeda Cell

Muchas gracias Dholyan.

I'll start asking Bubus how to say dirty shit in French now.

can we burn taino now?


come up with anything to back up what you say, please......

¡De nada hombre! ;)
Oh and sorry Shewdogg, it is "Coger", my bad.

And about "dirty shit" in French, it is "sale merde".

*scratches his head* Why am I helping Shewdogg......?
Damn, I'm such a nice guy! :b

ok tanio, i havent done anything with my website yet and i think you would be the perfect sad euro to make something to post,sad euro things or something it might be fun!

e-mail it to zenrk@sadeurofaces.com i bet you can come up with something more creative then i.

I meant other dirty phrases and such in French, not the actual words "dirty shit" in French Dholyan :) And I think you just wanted to test your new sig, that's why you helped out hehe.

Damn, you caught me!
/bow
:rollin

EDIT: Sig is too big. No larger than 450x150.Thanks

putain de merde suce ma bite encule gros con <-- bubus' responce to me asking if he liked shewdogg

- Hartmut killed himself?


You win.

Taino wrote

100 are celebrating, millions are furious and wish dead upon the invaders. But those are not being shown on TV, of course.


4 posts later he writes.
How do you have any slight clue about how the iraqi people feel?
All you see on TV are those few dozens people that celebrate in the center of Baghdad, those few truly western oriented people. But there are some 22 millions other people. You have no clue how they feel. Of course they don't start an open war because they have no chance against the invadors. I don't know how they feel either.








You admit not knowing how they really feel,but you are positive millions hate us for being there......huh?



Letting hate and cynicism rule you that much is really sad.

'There are other languages other then American? '

- American isn't a language. It's a form of poorly spelt English.
I stand in awe sometimes. Well, most of the time.

It's a form of poorly spelt English.

LOL, you did that on purpose, right?

Well no shit there partner! It's just im so damn proud to BE American that I no longer speak English I speak American. Thank you for your support.

For the guy skeptical of the DNA results.

--NEW YORK - A DNA test like the one that apparently helped confirm Saddam Hussein identity can be done in as little as 12 hours, a forensics expert says.

New York City's DNA lab has done such speedy tests for very rare high-priority cases, said Robert Shaler, director of the department of forensic biology in the office of the city's chief medical examiner.

"If you have a single sample and you stop everything else you're doing, you can get it done," he said. That would occur, for example, if police have arrested a suspect and can hold him only temporarily unless DNA matches him to a serious crime, he said.--

It's quite impossible to talk about 'Iraqi people' like american troops being there or not.
There is no such a thing like 'Iraqi people'. Iraq was never a united country before. It's more like a not-too-strict alliance (some forced to participate) of different tribes, who used to and will fight each other without a strong central goverment.
The only common thing among them is all of them follows the islam religion, therefore they are NOT american-friendly, or just a very few of them is. Supporting Israel for decades against the palestines/arabs/muslims without trying to balance and keep peace in the middle east caused a generation of arabs to grow up in the atmosphere of anti-americanism. Now the fact, shiitas (75% of Iraq, and they are the hardcore, religion-above-all guys in Iraq) and Kurds are celebrating while Sunnitas (if written this way) are not that happy. Shiitas welcome capturing Saddam and facing him to court, because Saddam in the '80s Saddam used mass destructing biological and chemical weapons against their villagers, but not because they like America so much. But again, Shiitas are the hard core muslims, who prohibits women to go universities, who support using the Saria and thing we all know. If the US let them to take control over iraq, that country will turn into a second Iran, and will be one of the bases of fundamentalism in the region. Who seems to be your friendy today, will be your enemy tomorrow.

It's a good thing Saddam finally was captured, however is actual value is not much anymore. He was not leading the attacks against the coalition forces, he was not leading iraq's army life anymore. Nice moral boost however. I hope he onna be imprisoned forever, but they dont make him a martyr and doesnt execute him. Now capture Osama Bin Laden
too, and make their symbols fall.

I think there should be a new cable station where you get to watch Sadaam watching reruns of Roseanne for the rest of his life.

Noone deserves that!
:rollin

'LOL, you did that on purpose, right?'

- No.

Actually it was reported this morning that Saddam actually had minutes from one of the insurgency meetings and since his capture several people of interest have been apprehended and a few insurgent cells uncovered.. Seems he still had a hand in things to me.

Psy/Vas

Btw, did they find any WoMD in his hole?
Maybe that's where they were hiding all this time.

As if WoMD was the main and only reason for going in. A part of it of course but you act as if it was the only reason we are there.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't/wasn't Saddam a Sunni if by name only?

Also, this will turn out to be a larger accomplishment as time passes.

Christopher...

--NEW YORK - A DNA test like the one that apparently helped confirm Saddam Hussein identity can be done in as little as 12 hours, a forensics expert says.

There are indeed DNA tests that take 12 hours.
They can give you a partial DNA profile that gives you a good indication. However to confirm someones identity 100% you need a full DNA profile and that can't be done in 12 hours.
So Yes it is enough to hold him for further investigation and no it is not 100% proof.


New York City's DNA lab has done such speedy tests for very rare high-priority cases, said Robert Shaler, director of the department of forensic biology in the office of the city's chief medical examiner.


True the New-york lab has such equipment, however I doubt this equipment is available in Irak. This is however very expensive equipment and there are no portable installations.
This is by no means a regular GC that the US army uses to detected possible chemical weapon attacks.
Closest available facility would prob be in Saudi-Arabia, allthough I am not sure they have the expertese to do these kind of tests.
But do you want to let these tests be done by them?
My guess is no.


"If you have a single sample and you stop everything else you're doing, you can get it done," he said. That would occur, for example, if police have arrested a suspect and can hold him only temporarily unless DNA matches him to a serious crime, he said.--

On the news we saw the physical examination of Sadam, including the taking of the DNA sample, that was according to the news several hours after his capture, which was 12 hours before the press-confernce.
Lets say several hours is 2, that leaves 10 hours to get the specimen to the closest lab and do a DNA test. Prepping the sample can be done in about 1-2 hours lets say 1, that leaves 9 hours for the actual test.
Can't be done.

If you want an accurate complete DNA profile you need at least 24 hours.
Thats just what it takes, no way to speed it up.
All other tests you can do are based on parts of the DNA and are therefor less accurate.

IT WAS THE ONLY REASON!
It's actually come to the point where you're fooling yourselves now?
War was started on the conclusion that Iraq possessed WoMD. WITHOUT that reason - there was no logical factor that justified "all of a sudden" blowing the country up, unless you want to talk Osama-distraction.

It was THE reason. And the fact that you are now out-right denying that, just goes to show the complete bullshit of every motive this war is built on.

/looks for the rock Halo's been hiding under.

/wonders how he can justify the Mass Graves and sleep at night

/gives up, realizing Halo likes playing the one liner miscreant...

Hell if for nothing else, this will allow the middle east a chance at something other than a Dictator waiting for his chance to kill us all...

"When Saddam was pressed about the mass graves, he replied "they were thieves"...

Christopher...

You make me giggle like a little school girl Halo... I'm glad there are people like you in the world. Now back to your regularly scheduled USA are teh Evil!!1!1!~one!!won debate.

Hey...if not for womd, then why US went there?
Human rights? Saddam? Terrorism? uhm...uhmm...
all of those would have been righ 10 years ago. not now tho.

And yeah, Saddam was sunnite. however was not religious and negligated islamic fundementalists most of the time...but the the sunnites know him as the one who 'freed' them from the shiitas...

Rumsfeld said it himself; WoMD was the precipitating factor for the invasion. No one will argue that there weren't other good reasons to get Saddam out of power. But when it came to convincing the UN and the American people that we had to go to war again, two issues received the bulk of the attention: 1) WoMD (and breaking of related UN resolutions) and 2) possible ties to terrorism.

I suspect that the insurgency will fade, though not entirely. We'll pay a great deal of money to rebuild Iraq and institute democratic reforms. A democratic constitution will be put in place, and foreign armies will depart. Then the Shiite majority will take over and turn Iraq into another Iran, and the US flag burning will begin. If democracy doesn't become theocracy within 5 years of institution I'll be amazed.

'/wonders how he can justify the Mass Graves and sleep at night'

- See, this is the exact position the Yanks here take up when someone doesn't agree.
I'm not saying it's the right thing, you.. sheep. I'm saying the foundation for war was built on lies, perhaps to attract attention away from Osama, perhaps to heighten Bush's political career, perhaps just to get revenge, perhaps even because ppl actually believed Saddam just shouldn't be around.
The fact remains that the pretentions were false.

I sleep very well at night thank you Fandros. I sleep well because I'm not fooling myself. As lamasci pointed out, all of your reasons for doing this were true 10 years ago, yet why do it now? There are also dictators and political figures and "rogue states" far worse than Iraq and Saddam's regime around. Why not go for them?

You are deluded if you think this war was built on the principal of WoMD or the notion of terrorist ties.

Don't question how I can sleep at night, mate.

The reasons given for the war were WoMD and terrorist ties. That doesn't mean they were the true reasons, nor does it mean that there are actual WoMD or solid terrorist ties. And, of course, there are lesser reasons that one can tack onto the above. No delusion there.

I do think Bush (and most others) thought we'd find WoMD in Iraq, at least in some quantity. Whether that expectation justified the war is a matter of personal opinion. My pre-war opinion was that we needed more to go on, and I think that's been borne out, but I'm still happy to see Saddam captured.

Kind of funny they find this great ruler/dictator hiding in a hole with a pile of money. If that doesnt send a message out to his cronies that he has told to "FIGHT TO THE DEATH" or all those families hes paid off to have them send there children in as Bombs....fricken coward I tell ya. Its a big pile of horseshit. Sounds like hes singing like a canary at the moment too.

blahblahblah I hate America blahblahblah No WoMD BLAHBLAHLBAH No Reason to be there BLAHBALHABALH.

We have heard it all before Halo. Yesterday you were on your way to becoming an honorary American but you can consider that revoked. In fact please disregard the black helicopters around you town.

You're a fucking twat.
Yesterday I said I was happy he was killed.


And I've heard all of your bullshit before. All of yours. "We're blind, bush is the second coming, we're good they're evil."
Fucking idiots.

There are also dictators and political figures and "rogue states" far worse than Iraq and Saddam's regime around. Why not go for them?

Which ones? Saddam invaded two countries, GASed thousands of his own people, and defied UN resolutions for 12 years. Nah, he wasn't a threat to the region was he? /smirk

North Korea and Iran are next :P

BLAH BLAH BLAH we've heard it all before BLAHBALHBALH Bush is evil blah blah blah America sucks blah blah blah

piece of shit.

/wonders how he can justify the Mass Graves and sleep at night
Would you please invade China, Philippines, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Niger, Cote d'Ivorne and around 20 other countries right now then?

THere is not one even halfways good reason why Iraq got invaded. None. And still you buy it. The more time passes, the more clear it is. And still you buy it. Dozens of pure lies of Bush have been revealed, he has been proven wrong. There are no WOMD, Saddam has no ties to Al Qaida, they in fact hate eachother, he had no plans on attacking the US, not even a country close to him... and yet you people buy BUsh's crap.
Oh you invaded Iraq because you wanted to free the iraqi people huh? Are you serious that you let your own people die because you want to free foreign people in a foreign country you couldn't even spell before? Good! SO go free the other 50% of this planets population that live in more miserable dictatorships or circumstances!


Its really amazing!

Go fuck yourself Taino you overly emotional and undereducated twit.

I've been to and served in the Middle East. That gives me the ability to spell Iraq ;P

As for Following Bush blindly, well sorry "mate" but I didn't even vote for him. Tho now I'm glad the political process saved us from my error. Gore would've been a disaster...;(

Bush just had a news conference. Fairly standard answers all around.

Christopher...

I buy Bushes "crap" because I believe what he says.

I find it really amaizing you don't.

' Nah, he wasn't a threat to the region was he? /smirk'

- This is exactly my point. When people don't share your "sheep" views, you make things up.
Quote me, dick head, where I said he wasn't a threat.

You people make me laugh. Remind me a lot of the characters a number of decades ago, where if you didn't hate ethnic minorities, you loved them. Kind of a "Let's throw tomatoes at this black kid! "Why? That's not nice." "OMG NIGGER LOVER!11"

The.. fucking IQ. Unbelievable.

I'd gladly match IQ digits any day of the week with you "One line bill".

See, you are as guilty as those you label. If someone dares to challenge the great and all mightly ( yet never follows his own convictions) Haloface then by god he's stupid!

Boy, you keep leaning on the accomplishments and words of others to establish your identity.

I'm sure it'll stand you in good stead in the Pubs of tomorrow. /yawn

See the great and almightly NonSheep Haloface, for while his words are weak and lack the backing of conviction...at least they are kinda sorta his own. That is if you discount the reach around whispering from his halfwit professor that is...

Christopher...

The way I see it the world is better off with Saddam out of power. Period. I am overjoyed that he was taken alive and will stand some sort of trial.

I don't think the fighting in Iraq is going to abate soon even with Saddam caught. There are too many factions vying for power and at least some will use the anti-US sentiment as a rallying point. Iran wants to make things as difficult for the US as possible as well and will make sure the attacks continue regardless. I figure we will have a tough row to hoe for quite some time to come.

Now, Bush needs to get serious about Bin Laden.

Maybe folks think your a sheep to your own anti-Americanisms? You and your "kind" do the same things as I do. You follow your own ideologies. and there is nothing wrong with that other then your not American...=)

As I understood it, WoMD was more of a thing to get the UN to move into action. When that failed, it kind of went on the back burner and we went after the real target, removing Sadaam from power.

'See the great and almightly NonSheep Haloface, for while his words are weak and lack the backing of conviction...'

- Oh sweet lord. I can't take it anymore.

Quick, everyone say, "God bless America!" Maybe Halo will explode!

Would you please invade China, Philippines, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Niger, Cote d'Ivorne and around 20 other countries right now then?

THere is not one even halfways good reason why Iraq got invaded. None. And still you buy it

We felt like it.

The others have to wait till after Christmas and the superbowl so there will be something good to watch on tv.

- This is exactly my point. When people don't share your "sheep" views, you make things up.

What did I "make up" ? I called you on something and you've avoided the question.

The threat comment was admittedly me being a smartass, but was the real reason we went in there.

THere is not one even halfways good reason why Iraq got invaded. None. And still you buy it

Just because you choose to hate the truth doesn't mean the rest of us have to. I'm no sheep, I and many other conservatives disagree with Bush's domestic policies, but when it comes to our international war on terrorism I agree 100%.

Bah. eerr

Halo and Taino -

When you first read or saw the news concerning our capture of Saddam, I'm curious what your first reaction was.

Did you shake your head in disbelief, praying that it wasn't true? Or did you hope it was true so the Iraqi people could finally bring their former tyrant to justice?

Oh, and for those of you who think Saddam didn't have any relations with Al Queda, go read Con Coughlin's report in the Telegraph last Sunday. It was obviously overshadowed by Saddam's capture but it's there.

For those too lazy:

"Iraq's coalition government claims that it has uncovered documentary proof that Mohammed Atta, the al-Qaeda mastermind of the September 11 attacks against the US, was trained in Baghdad by Abu Nidal, the notorious Palestinian terrorist.

"Details of Atta's visit to the Iraqi capital in the summer of 2001, just weeks before he launched the most devastating terrorist attack in US history, are contained in a top secret memo written to Saddam Hussein, the then Iraqi president, by Tahir Jalil Habbush al-Tikriti, the former head of the Iraqi Intelligence Service.

"The handwritten memo, a copy of which has been obtained exclusively by the Telegraph, is dated July 1, 2001 and provides a short resume of a three-day 'work programme' Atta had undertaken at Abu Nidal's base in Baghdad.

"In the memo, Habbush reports that Atta 'displayed extraordinary effort' and demonstrated his ability to lead the team that would be 'responsible for attacking the targets that we have agreed to destroy'."

And there's even this: "The second part of the memo, which is headed 'Niger Shipment', contains a report about an unspecified shipment — believed to be uranium — that it says has been transported to Iraq via Libya and Syria."

Perhaps Saddam himself will soon have something to say about all this.


The truth will come and yet there will be those who chose to not believe it.

Good! SO go free the other 50% of this planets population that live in more miserable dictatorships or circumstances!

Maybe we will, because we sure as hell can't count on you candy ass, flower children to.

Jeezus you spend more time crying like a bitch than you do thinking.

I agree with Gulor on this, regardless of all the WoMD BS, or ulterior motives you can dream up., the Iraqi people and world in general will benefit greatly from his removal. He was truely on par with Hitler, and everyone can do without him.

Taino, you can block off the streets, protest, bitch and cry all you want, but its not doing a GOD DAMN THING for those people you mentioned. Except maybe, make your horse a little higher.

The way I see it the world is better off with Saddam out of power.

No Gulor, you obviously just don't get it. Taino already told us:THere is not one even halfways good reason why Iraq got invaded. None.And I mean, Taino couldn't possibly be wrong about something like this, could he?

I mean, there's those pesky countries he invated, and those oh-so-bothersome people he had executed and tortured, but, well, outside of that, I can't think of a single reason to remove him from power either.

So, the only logical question is, "Why not polish off a few other grumpy dictators?" The answer is, well, fucking-duh!, of course we're preserving our self-interests. The US has a vested interest in a minimum of stability in the middle-east. If someplace like Korea and their nightmare of problems starts posing a greater threat to our self-interests, we'll probably park the 7th fleet in their back-yard too.

If that makes us bad, well, get over it.

Well, the arguements on both sides of this are so compelling--Glad that Marz said that the 'motive of invasion based on WoMD was BS'

The ends, as it seems, justify the means...

All the lies and obfuscations pre and during the war (whether major operations or the aftermath) were just that--lies.

But SH is captured. And I'm glad that he is. And Dubya, for the second time since the beginning of his appointed presidency, has surprised me by doing the right thing--let the Iraqi people judge Saddam.

Wow. Let us see how this transpires. Lately, Dubya is acting more like a president and less like a petty tyrannical 'bring it on!' dictator.

So for the second time--George, nicely done.

Wow. Let us see how this transpires. Lately, Dubya is acting more like a president and less like a petty tyrannical 'bring it on!' dictator.

So for the second time--George, nicely done.

President Bush has acted like a president his entire tenure in office up to this point. He's made executive decisions based on the information given to him by his advisors both military and civilian.

He's gone forward with action based on those decisions despite them being unpopular in several cases because he believed it was in America's best interests. I'll leave it to all of you to decide how sincere and honest he is on your own.

Now, because he's done something you approve of he's "acting more like a president" ? I think you lack understanding of what a president is and does.

Taino, you can block off the streets, protest, bitch and cry all you want, but its not doing a GOD DAMN THING for those people you mentioned. Except maybe, make your horse a little higher.

NO it doesn't, but at least I don't claim being a fucking saint and freeing people, being godsent and all good, being the one and only holy knight in shiny armor when in fact I am nothing else but filling my own pockets, killing people, bringing misery and lies all over the planet and enjoying my stupid citizens buying all the shit I tell em.

All Bush does is 2 things:
1. He is frightening you guys to death, you are all scared of terrorists where in fact "dying on terrorist attacks" is like the most unlikely happening possible to anyone of you, yet you are all scared to death and since you are scared to death, Bush and co may do whatever they want because "its for the war against terror" and you don't even grasp it.
2. He is filling his pockets.


Did you know the Bush family did and does business with the Bin Laden family? OH but of course his famnily has nothing to do with Bin Laden himself. They abandonned Osama many decades ago.. well, at least besides during that marriage 3 years ago, 2 months before the 911 attacks where Osama got caught on a video tape celebrating with his families.
Got there are hundrets or even thousands of EVIDENCE for Bush completely lying to you people. he's not even doing in a smart way. And all he does in order to defend himself is complete denyiance and ignorance towards all facts.

I could write many dozens of clear evidence why Bush is straight out lying all the time. But I doubt anyone of you would even read it, it would take many pages and I'd just waste my time. Why do I know those things? I read books. Newspapers.

Heehee, let me get this straight...

You are implying maybe Dubya has a secret deal with Bin Laden to attack America so he will have an excuse to attack Afghanistan and Iraq? I just want to get your theory straight.

Bush is not scaring me to death. I'm am not in the slightest bit afraid of being blown up. Bush has helped me to line my pockets as well thank you. With his tax cuts I have been able to save and invest more money this year then I even been able to before.

1. He is frightening you guys to death, you are all scared of terrorists where in fact "dying on terrorist attacks" is like the most unlikely happening possible to anyone of you, yet you are all scared to death and since you are scared to death, Bush and co may do whatever they want because "its for the war against terror" and you don't even grasp it.
You're kidding, right? Most of his speeches have been overwhelmingly positive, with a message of "We won't be afraid".

I can tell you we certainly aren't afraid, here in Atlanta. I've never once, since 9/11, changed my plans or done anything different than I normally would. No one I know has either. The SARS deal affected more people I know than terrorism has, since they had to call off a big wedding in Malaysia...

Who is it that you think is afraid, or being scared? Or, are we afraid just like all of the Iraqi's are secretly unhappy for being liberated, even though they're dancing in the streets?

No...

I am saying Bush is using this whole 911 (thisis when it all started, noone ever mentioned any damn terrorist bullshit before that) to his own advantage. His whole political plan is built up on it, he makes money like mad, he uses this all to take away your rights, he undoes laws to protect your private sphere, you turn more and more into a police state, you support wars, you put an insane amount of money into army and wars. This is what I say. The whole country is filled up with fear from a nonexistant threat. Yes there are terrorists. But how big is the chance you may get killed during a terorist attack? Sorry, how many terrorist attacks have there been in the states in the past 10 years? How many people died? COmpare this to how many people died due to other thinghs noone cares about.
Still you are all afraid if terrorists like shit.
And Bush is the one smiling. He doesnt do shit for your country. he throws money out of the window and doesnt solve anything in your country. but he looks bad and cool when he goes speak in front of soldiers in Iraq.

I also say Bush and CHeney and Rumsfeld (and many others) have their fingers deep in the pockets of all those companies that make a shitload of money with oil and weapons. Why do you think Bush wants war? The more Oil you get, the more weapons you use, the more money he makes.

There's a lot of things i say, But no, I don't say that anyone got a secret deal with Bin Laden.

Bin Laden and iraq have nothing to do with eachother. Bin Laden and Saddam were enemies. They follow completely utterly different goals and morals. The only thing they share is that they hate the americans. Bin Laden because of your (our) culture and religion, Saddam because of business reasons.

You're kidding, right? Most of his speeches have been overwhelmingly positive, with a message of "We won't be afraid".

Get the whole message straight.
What Bush always says is "We won't be afraid of this huge threat of all those terrorists, all around the world, covering and preparing the fight against us, wanting to destroy our country and freedom"

This is the message. He says "we wont be afraidf" but he keeps telling you that we have an insane terrorist problem on this planet, they are everywhere, they are the biggest problem on this planet, they are ready to attack, you are all in danger.. but hey, don't be afraid, if you give me enough money and power, if you abandon your own rights and if you just let me be your little dictator then I will protect you, so dont be afraid. We'll just bomb a few more countries.

I am saying Bush is using this whole 911 (this is when it all started, no one ever mentioned any damn terrorist bullshit before that) to his own advantage.

Your fucking kidding me? No, seriously. This is a joke? NO Marines were blown up in Beirut? No Israeli's taken hostage during the Olympics? Among many thousands of other incidents im sure. Those were all staged by the Bush family too huh? Politics aside you are single the dumbest fucker I have ever encountered. Congratz bro.

I love coked up drunk drivers.

That being said, I'm glad that someone finally rolled and gave up SH. I would sleep alot easier if Kim Jung was gone too.

Now I hope Saddam can tell us where the WMD and al qeada are all hiding. Maybe he knows the name of the real killer of Nicole Brown too.

:evil

Taino, I can't speak for others, but I can speak for myself when I say that's not the message I get from him. To me, the messages are distinctly separate. One of those messages is that we won't be intimidated by coward terrorists, period.

Taino is hoarding Nazi gold.

www.urbandictionary.com/d...=taino&f=1 (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=taino&f=1)

Haha!

'Halo and Taino -

When you first read or saw the news concerning our capture of Saddam, I'm curious what your first reaction was.'

- So you don't enjoy reading the beginning of threads, eh?
Don't try and be a big boy at the end of a thread, bitch. Go back and read the actual posts.

NO it doesn't, but at least I don't claim being a fucking saint and freeing people, being godsent and all good, being the one and only holy knight in shiny armor when in fact I am nothing else but filling my own pockets, killing people, bringing misery and lies all over the planet and enjoying my stupid citizens buying all the shit I tell em.Emphasis mine. So, let me get this straight. The *only* thing we did in Iraq is make money, bring misery and kill people? You're even more developmentally retarded than I thought you were.

Jesus, I hope we looted 90,000,000,000.00 worth of Iraqi treasures over there. That's what we spent on the war. Not to mention the 320 service people we got killed doing it.

Americians don't live in fear of terrorism, Taino, you jackass. Just because you hear a speach by US leaders and start pissing YOUR pants, doesn't mean we do.

Who suggested we turn Taino over to Jack Bauer? Good plan.

Lookie, my new sig!

"[The US is] nothing but...killing people, bringing misery and lies all over the planet..." - Taino 2003

It is foolish to suppose any country would sustain an attack like 9/11 and not react strongly to prevent further such attacks. Taino and others have pointed out repeatedly that the US is hated all over the world. When a group of people decide that they want to kill as many Americans as they can (for whatever reason) and have shown they have the means and willingness to do so, why would the US go about it's business as usual? It seems to me that self preservation is a natural response.

3000 deaths may not seem like a big number when you consider we lose many times that each year in auto accidents, but those guys trying to kill us are looking for ways to do it in the millions. If we make it too easy for them, they will kill millions of us. The technology exists for them to do so, it is only the access they are lacking.

Every country targetted by terrorists takes steps to limit the damage and to prevent future attacks. France does it, the UK does it, Spain does it, Russia does it, Israel does it. You get the picture. If a leader did not take steps, he would not remain leader for long. Some of you condemn Bush for making a big deal out of 9/11. Well, he is doing what we want him to do....make it more difficult for future 9/11 magnitude attacks to happen in the US.

Taino's rampant assumptions and conspiracy based arguments are becoming more and more asinine every time he posts.

Hopefully this is the point where he commits Ha’ra Kir’i along with Hartmut and heads off to his socialist utopia.

Don't try and be a big boy at the end of a thread, bitch. Go back and read the actual posts.

So you admit to posting here before having any sort of reaction? I assumed that but didn't think you'd actually admit it :P

You asked me what my reaction is - read the original post and you will know what it is.
Don't act like an 11 year old to make yourself look innocent. Well, even more so than usual I guess.

Actually, during the intial onset of this thread Halo showed support of Saddam's capture...

Christopher...

'Halo and Taino -

When you first read or saw the news concerning our capture of Saddam, I'm curious what your first reaction was.'

I am glad he got caught. Its a very small step in the right direction. I just personally don't think this will help the iraqi people a lot, nor is it even remotely as a big deal for them as it is for you. They just want a free country (free of you, mainly) and food.

You know, claiming that freedom is more important then anything else is easy as long as you are having food and a home. But if you are starving, have war, have no medical care at all, live on the street... and you know you at least had food before this all, you didn't see your family starve or die from cluster bombs from the people that come to "free you".. then you'll pretty damn fast give a shit about freedom and just want your food and family back.

Taino, how do you know the Iraqi people hate us and want nothing more then to have us gone? OH thats right your in the US military and have seen first hand there discontent. God damn thats alot of insight you have there. I wish I had as much for-sight as you. your a regular fucking Creskin.

'Taino, how do you know the Iraqi people hate us and want nothing more then to have us gone?'

- 150 or so dead US soliders, for one thing.
I'm not implying the majority of people in Iraq resent the invaders, but as an American news reporter said last night, there were certainly a very large portion of towns who were jeering and angry at the news of Saddam's capture.
Yet there was also an awful lot happy, especially those areas affected the most by Saddam's cruelty.

Whether or not the majority do or don't is - I think - something we can argue away until we actually know (see: most topics on this forum), because none of us do. Maybe when the fog and confusion of this entire thing lifts.. 2 years, 5 years, 10 years time, we'll know by hindsight and retrospect the general "feeling" of the Iraqi people.

But neither side of the argument here has the argument in the bag. What with there not actually being a bag.

I had a point somewhere. Hey look, an oliphunt.

150,000 troops in and a few hundred are dead. Just because a few terrorists want us out of the country doesn't meant he whole country wants us out. It also doesn't mean the majority of the country wants us out. Truth be told, the majority may want us out, they may not, the fact you live several thousand miles away (anyone on this board), you can't say one way or another how they feel.

You know, claiming that freedom is more important then anything else is easy as long as you are having food and a home. But if you are starving, have war, have no medical care at all, live on the street... and you know you at least had food before this all, you didn't see your family starve or die from cluster bombs from the people that come to "free you".. then you'll pretty damn fast give a shit about freedom and just want your food and family back.




Yeah,Taino can empathize,he once went without EQ for like 2 weeks!

Don't be h8n, he learned about freedom from "Free Willy"

You know, claiming that freedom is more important then anything else is easy as long as you are having food and a home. But if you are starving, have war, have no medical care at all, live on the street... and you know you at least had food before this all, you didn't see your family starve or die from cluster bombs from the people that come to "free you".. then you'll pretty damn fast give a shit about freedom and just want your food and family back.

So leaving the starving people under a dictator, being brutalized beyond belief, is better than trying to do something about it? It is true that errant bombs hitting innocent civilians is a tragedy, and I don't mean to trivialize it, but how many is it? 10, 100, 1000? Compared to what, the 61,000+ he murdered under his rule? The people he gassed to death? The torture chambers? The mass graves? When the fuck are you going to step in and stop it?

Let me ask you this. WHERE IN THE FUCK IS THE UN WITH THE FOOD? The one job they CAN do right, they won't do because of the "insecurity" in Iraq. It's a fucking embarassment. Grown some balls, and send your fucking "peace keepers" in with the food, medical supplies, and aid that the people need.

Again it all comes down to, those who sit and cry and complain, and those who DO something about it.

Hey Osgiliath666 nice sig hehe =)

' 150,000 troops in and a few hundred are dead. Just because a few terrorists want us out of the country doesn't meant he whole country wants us out. It also doesn't mean the majority of the country wants us out. Truth be told, the majority may want us out, they may not, the fact you live several thousand miles away (anyone on this board), you can't say one way or another how they feel. '

You don't see the point.The 'Some few terrorists' is not some few terrorist. Terrorism is what they did 911, a recently at some of your embassies in different countrys. The truth is, now you are on foreign land, and those who blowing up your 'some hundred' soldiers are prepared for guerilla war.
I hardly can believe that your 'administration' constantly fails to recognise that they underestimated the number and weight of problems that will come AFTER they win the war.
No point to fight the american army face to face, most likely noone is able to defeat it in the world at this time. However, the truth is, they are NOT prepared to fight against guerillas.
Since the war, US lost 350+ soldiers there, 200 of them after the war. This means 1 thing. A part of the iraqies (and most likely a large part) and fundementalist from other muslim countries (Syria, Lebanon, Palestines, Afghanistan, Saud Arabs) SUPPORT this war against you.
I thought US already learnt it in Vietnam, and saw it later in Afghanistan (when CCCP tried it) you can not win such a 'war' with operations like 'iron fist' and so on.

You cant controll iraq, your and your allies (including my country) is attacked every day, several times. You can't controll Afghanistan, you just have controll over Kabul and surroundings, but 90% of the land is controlled by warlords, who, guess what: do what they want on their land.

The CIA sucks for some years now, they can not show any SINGLE victory in the secret operative business. Your leadership - aka Rumsfeld - Cheney - Bush - started a war because they DID not know what to do against terrorists!
DO they think they can defeat them in wars like this? (iraq). Because it is sure they can not. They have an enemy that is professional at hiding, concealing, ambus and have a base of some hunderdmillion people like 20-30 countries and some million sq. miles of land.

Your aim to defeat them is right. The way you do it is not. First, its not legal, second its not effective.
IF your country really would want to hunt terrorits down with their army, they should go against lebanon, syria, saud-arabia (ops, we already control the oil there) afghanistan (the part you dont dare to go), pakistan, and philippies.

The truth...the only way to fight the terrorism is with secret services. pure army will never let you win. And your leaders know this. They lied, they mislead and/or tried to mislead your own nation and other parts of the world, they not even were abl to create an acceptable casus-belli. Rumsfeld is LAME. (its not bush who leads this. he is just a tool)

And before you start to yell about my anti-americanism.

I'm not anti-americanist, i don't hate US. I have many friends over there, I like your country, the freedom, the constitution, your culture, etc. But this time the US leadership is terribly wrong and continues to make wrong decisions. I dont mind if they are democrats or republicans or whatever name they have. They are wrong.

Just so long as you don't take our women. 8(

'the fact you live several thousand miles away (anyone on this board), you can't say one way or another how they feel. '

- Yes you kind of stepped on my friggin point, bob.

Well said.
The only thing I disagree is that you make a huge deal out of terrorists. Yes they exist, yes they should be fought. But terrorist cells are by far not the most important thing on this planet.
Poverty, pollution, human rights, food, medical health care, the problems in each country as a whole are far more important problems for this planet. The chance of dying in a car accident is many thousand times bigger then dying on a terrorist attack.
And this huge war against terror does not lead to success at all, it just leads to more agression, more violence and I don't even wanna know how many "normal" people converted into extremists / terrorists because of the Bush Administrations actions.

One big point you got tho. The war against terror cannot be won with armies.
It can be fought with secret services, and not only the american one. All Secret Services have to work together.
It can be prevented by not abusing countries, by diplomacy and decisions giving each country a say and support. As long as the world is being reigned by pure military power of the strong, terrorist attacks will never cease, because it is the only way for oppressed people to "voice" themselves. If the US (and the whole western society) wouldn't interfere with all those countries, they wouldn't feel the need to fight us at all (yes us, I consider myself partpf "your" side, too).
I know this sounds like pink fluffy hippy talk, but its the only fucking way. Wars and violence will always result in wars and violence in return. At all times. One day we will learn, or blow the planet.

Just because a few terrorists want us out of the country doesn't meant he whole country wants us out.
Since when does attacking a foreign army that occupies your country fall under "terrorism"?

Didn't you notice that everything, no matter who, what, where doing anyhting that Bush doesn't like is considered terrorism?
Blowing people up is terrorism, killing the american soldiers is terrorism (if american soldiers kill innocent iraqi people, its an accident, or they just say they were terrorists, if they do kill iraqi fighters, its considered "War on terror"), voicing your opinion against Bush is considered terrorism, being against Bush is terrorism (how many times has france been called terrorist lovers?), being against the war is terrorism, no matter what anyone does, it can and will always be considered terrorism, if the Bush Administraiton doesn't like it.
Everything, everyone, every place can be turned around into a "terrorist threat" and as soon as something/-one is labeled this, the public considers it/them/him/her bad, evil, unholy, unpatriotic, antiamerican.

It works perfect. All I do is being agianst Bush. But in fact i don't wanna know how many of you secretly believe that I am a little Saddam lover, Terrorist supporter and that I wish death upon your country and families, don't ya?
I'm a terrorist!!!!!!!!!!!! Call the FBI!!!!!!!!


P.S. Blowing up civilians IS terrorism. Killing innocent people is terrorism. Yep. By the way, the bombing of Iraq killed more civilians then 9/11. Innocent people minding their own business, wanting to live in peace.
So who's the big terrorist please?

So who's the big terrorist please?

Just make a list of who supported these terrorists to become terrorists before they were terrorists... And you have your answer.

'Just make a list of who supported these terrorists to become terrorists before they were terrorists... And you have your answer. '


Well, yeah. Score.

Noone mentioned yet, that Osama was trained by the CIA against the soviets. Now the gun fires back. Noone mentioned that Saddam bought weapon and was helped to develop chemical weapon in the '80s by American, French and Britt scientist against Iran.

Noone mentioned yet, that Osama was trained by the CIA against the soviets.
ya.. he was brought to secret CIA training area where he was given intense multi discipline training in several areas, he had surgery done on him by CIA surgeons who implanted Bionic implants, Steriods to make him stronger and we removed his brain and placed that of Gengis Khan.

Ya know what the CIA did in Afganistan dumbass?

"Heya Guys.. here are some TOW rockets.. this is how to use them.. Ok.. good luck."

Ya know what the CIA did in Afganistan dumbass?
Do you?

NoodlesMie
Total Posts :: 5
Member Since :: December 16, 2003 (Global User)



You really want to get into this?


Ibudin

Please do ...

Since when is one who is new not allowed to post concerning political issues?
Or should I first post 100 post into a section I have no heart for and am I then allowed?
What are the rules ??? Please do get into this.

Just make a list of who supported these terrorists to become terrorists before they were terrorists... And you have your answer.
- The United States giving the Taliban millions and millions in order to make them stronger to "fight against drugs" (Drug export is still the by far biggest economic income of Afghanistan, do you think a country would seriously cut its biggest and almost only income?).
- The United States by giving the Taliban equipment for many millions in order to fight against the Russian Army.
- The United States in order to support Osama Bin Laden with Weapons and thereabouts for the above reasons.
- The United States by having a real damn lot of deals with Saddam Hussein starting from Oil contracts, over to Weapon Systems and Chemical Weapons being given ti him so he can "win the war against Iran". Why? Because Iran was considered the bigger threat then Iraq. Saddam always was a person that liked the "western way of life". He enjoyed all the western luxury he could buy with his money. He wasn't against the U.S. at all. He never was against the way of life as we have/like it. Iraq is one of the most multireligious countries in the middle east. People were actually allowed to choose their religious belief. Saddam just wanted power and money, but didn't give a shit about religious stuff.
- The United States by giving Saddam Hussein actually the very weapons he used against Kurds and all other "incidents" that he has been accused of at the end. The only WoMD he ever owned, he got from the U.S.
- The United States by having huge Oil deals with Saddam Hussein. 40% of all Oil exports of Iraq was directly running over to the land of the free. Your houses were being kept warm with Iraqi Oil being bought from Saddam.
- The French (yeah gotta admit that, too) by having Oil contracts with Saddam which ended up in 8% of Iraqi Oil going to France.
- The United States, France, England (and some minor other countries) by selling armor to Iraq.
- The United States by making business with the Bin Laden family over decades (and still does it). Guess how much of all that money Osama has comes directly from your taxes? Noone knows, but its sure a damn lot.
- The United States by covering and protecting Saudi Arabia (remember 15 of 19 terrorists were Saudi's, if they would have been French, you're have invaded France, if it would have been any other cvountry, you'd have inivaded it or said that "Country XY attacks the States". But with Saudi Arabia.. nothing) no matter what happens. Saudi Arabia is the place where the United States get most Oil from. If your relations to Saudi Arabia would get "interrupted", you'd face financial problems, you'd lose your highest Oil deliverer, which would have huge economic infulences. Saudi arabia is a cruel dictatorship ruled by the Royal Family. Same or worse as Saddam and Co. But noone cares, noone goes "free them Saudi's", guess why.
- The United States by starting wars, invading countries, abusing countries and leaving them in misery, taking their resources but doing jack shit ofr the people, creating anger and frustration, perfect recruiting grounds for terrorists.
- Donald Rumsfeld hugging Saddam Hussein, his good buddy and business partner in the late 1980ies, a few before Saddam invaded Kuweit. Of course you don't see that picture over and over in the media. It was banned. GEt a clue, Saddam was one of the best friends of the United States in the Middle East until the very moment he invaded Kuweit. The gassing of the Kurds was in 1988. During this time and for years after this (after it was public) he was stil the good buddie and business partner.

So far just to name a few "terrorist supporters"...

Do you?

To believe anything requires conjecture and imagination. Thats all the Taliban have said the US helped and thats all the CIA said theyve helped..
To believe they did anything else requires you to make it up in your mind..

BTW.. are you Dutch by any chance?

- The United States giving the Taliban millions and millions in order to make them stronger to "fight against drugs" (Drug export is still the by far biggest economic income of Afghanistan, do you think a country would seriously cut its biggest and almost only income?).
Never happened.. sorry..


- The United States by giving the Taliban equipment for many millions in order to fight against the Russian Army.
Taliban didnt exist at this point.
- The United States in order to support Osama Bin Laden with Weapons and thereabouts for the above reasons.
OBL was a solider in the Muhjadeen.. Al QUeda didnt exist, he wasnt a force unto himself.
- The United States by having a real damn lot of deals with Saddam Hussein starting from Oil contracts, over to Weapon Systems and Chemical Weapons being given ti him so he can "win the war against Iran".
Ok.. true.. in the late 70s.. But.. remember.. the US gets ONE PERCENT of its oil from the entire mideast.

Why? Because Iran was considered the bigger threat then Iraq.
True.. remember Iran kidnapping all those Hostages.. that was pretty Hostile wouldnt you say?
Saddam always was a person that liked the "western way of life". He enjoyed all the western luxury he could buy with his money. He wasn't against the U.S. at all. He never was against the way of life as we have/like it. Iraq is one of the most multireligious countries in the middle east. People were actually allowed to choose their religious belief. Saddam just wanted power and money, but didn't give a shit about religious stuff.
Same could be said about Hitler.
- The United States by giving Saddam Hussein actually the very weapons he used against Kurds and all other "incidents" that he has been accused of at the end. The only WoMD he ever owned, he got from the U.S.
Untrue.

- The United States by having huge Oil deals with Saddam Hussein. 40% of all Oil exports of Iraq was directly running over to the land of the free. Your houses were being kept warm with Iraqi Oil being bought from Saddam.
- The French (yeah gotta admit that, too) by having Oil contracts with Saddam which ended up in 8% of Iraqi Oil going to France.
This is blatently untrue. Totally and completely..

- The United States, France, England (and some minor other countries) by selling armor to Iraq.
you already said this.

- The United States by making business with the Bin Laden family over decades (and still does it). Guess how much of all that money Osama has comes directly from your taxes? Noone knows, but its sure a damn lot.
Actually.. OBL exhausted his personal finances A LONG time ago.. remember that one of the Pillars of Islam is giving 10% of your income to charity.. many muslims give money to Al QUeda linked Charities.
- The United States by covering and protecting Saudi Arabia (remember 15 of 19 terrorists were Saudi's, if they would have been French, you're have invaded France, if it would have been any other cvountry, you'd have inivaded it or said that "Country XY attacks the States". But with Saudi Arabia.. nothing) no matter what happens. Saudi Arabia is the place where the United States get most Oil from. If your relations to Saudi Arabia would get "interrupted", you'd face financial problems, you'd lose your highest Oil deliverer, which would have huge economic infulences
Sorry.. biggest supplier of Oil is Argentina. Besides Domestic..which is the biggest.

. Saudi arabia is a cruel dictatorship ruled by the Royal Family. Same or worse as Saddam and Co. But noone cares, noone goes "free them Saudi's", guess why.
Bullshit.. they many be a monarchy.. but Saudi Arabia ISNT EVEN IN THE SAME LEAGUE in barbarism and cruelty as Saddam.. this is PURE hyperbole on your part.
- The United States by starting wars, invading countries, abusing countries and leaving them in misery, taking their resources but doing jack shit ofr the people, creating anger and frustration, perfect recruiting grounds for terrorists.
We started One War.. and there were plenty of terrorists and it was only getting worse..
- Donald Rumsfeld hugging Saddam Hussein, his good buddy and business partner in the late 1980ies, a few before Saddam invaded Kuweit. Of course you don't see that picture over and over in the media. It was banned.
Oh bullshit.. it was a Handshake.. Banned.. google it.. youll find it.
GEt a clue, Saddam was one of the best friends of the United States in the Middle East until the very moment he invaded Kuweit. The gassing of the Kurds was in 1988. During this time and for years after this (after it was public) he was stil the good buddie and business partner.
Wrong.. look it up.. Im tired of doing your reasearch.

www.msnbc.com/news/190144.asp?cp1=1 (http://www.msnbc.com/news/190144.asp?cp1=1)

L2, you have no clue about the 1960-2000 history.
Really. Not a single clue....untrue untrue untrue.
Everyone know, Osama was financed by the USA.
Everyone know US supported drug producing and selling from afghanistan. 1% of the oil goes to US? LOL man, who the hell uses the other 99 (???!!!!! insane) percent?

Btw, this is not the point. The point is, US administration is dumb once again in an international matter. And you, l2, eat all the shit you are told to do.

You can argue about whats right, whats not, what way is effective to disable terrorist/terrorism and all the stuff, but arguing facts is like arguing with a cofee machine. no use.

'"Heya Guys.. here are some TOW rockets.. this is how to use them.. Ok.. good luck." '

- That one kinda back-fired, eh.

Sorry guys it's pointless. You go ahead and follow your anti-US rhetoric and we'll continue to follow our ways. You stand there and cry and we'll continue to "save the world". We'll continue to do what is in America's best interest and safety and you can just sit there and piss up a rope. There is not a good god damn thing your going to do about it other then to amuse a few folk that read these boards.

I did not see any reasonable arguement posted by you guys, what are you doing in iraq at this moment.

It's because there is no such a thing. The US-UK-+some minis has some foggy view about the stiuation of iraq, a mass, that contains some valid points, but those are beaten by pure lies and halftrue facts.

You are right, its pointless. But thx god, atm we r not the one, whose buildings, citizens, soldiers are being bombed by suicide fanatists all over the world.

This (not iraq, but the 'War on Terror') will be your second Vietnam, however will result lesser in casualties. You are stronger, but you can not win if the 'Administration' does not change the strategy

Since you have such a good idea on how we need to handle this I have e-mailed the Dept. of Defense for you. I think they're interested in your services. Mr. Bush indicated he would like you to work closely with him on this war. Lucky you. You have a well paying job just waiting for you here in the good 'ol USA.

ya.. he was brought to secret CIA training area where he was given intense multi discipline training in several areas, he had surgery done on him by CIA surgeons who implanted Bionic implants, Steriods to make him stronger and we removed his brain and placed that of Gengis Khan.

Ya know what the CIA did in Afganistan dumbass?

"Heya Guys.. here are some TOW rockets.. this is how to use them.. Ok.. good luck."



I KNEW IT!

They are controlling LL's mind as we speak!! He is spilling all of their secrets!!

You better not mention any details on the the Ninja Turtle autopsies!

L2, you have no clue about the 1960-2000 history.
Really. Not a single clue....untrue untrue untrue.
Everyone know, Osama was financed by the USA.
Everyone know US supported drug producing and selling from afghanistan. 1% of the oil goes to US? LOL man, who the hell uses the other 99 (???!!!!! insane) percent?

I see not one shred of evidence in there to contradict what L2 said. Does saying "untrue" three times make it the case? Did I miss a ruling on that? Just lots of "Every1 NOZ THAT!" bullshit. Please, try to not link us to "KILLBUSHANDEVILAMERICA.COM" for "reliable" sources too. OK, cock-wagon?

Actually, do yourself a favor. Pack it in. Go away and sulk and protest. You have no power in this world. WE OWN IT ALL. There's not a fucking thing you can do about it either. So, gather up all your conspiracy buddies, and get togther and try to make posters with the word "Hege...hejuh...hejumo...oh, fuck it, IMPERIALISM" all over it and then...

...

...uhhh, what can you do?

OH YEAH! Nothing. You can't do anything, no matter how hard you try.

Red cock, sore throat. (Taino can fill you in on the details of that.)

Way to Faust. SOunds like you wrapped up this thread perfectly. I think I'll go ahead and declare this thread another Pro-America victory.

lamasci, you want to know what we're doing in Iraq at the moment? Building back their economy and government. For all the people who wanted us to pull out, explain to me this. Would you leave an entire country by itself with no way to start their economy over, no government, and no way of life? I didn't think so.

' Way to Faust. SOunds like you wrapped up this thread perfectly. I think I'll go ahead and declare this thread another Pro-America victory. '

Congrats! Really! You owned a topic by being loud. No reasonable thinking, just the volume. Nice achievement.

I think, the best if you r just being ignored, you don't have a thought to share just the 'We r the american we own all you are antiamerican so you suck' bullshit.

' I see not one shred of evidence in there to contradict what L2 said. Does saying "untrue" three times make it the case? Did I miss a ruling on that?'

Yes. What he said 'untrue' indicates he has no clue what he is talking about. Well i bet if last year someone shows him the map of middle-east without transparents, he can not point iraq on it. Again a guy not worth to discuss with.

'Actually, do yourself a favor. Pack it in. Go away and sulk and protest. You have no power in this world. WE OWN IT ALL. '

This is ok. And, mostly true. Just why you need to say bullshit about reasons/goals then?


'OH YEAH! Nothing. You can't do anything, no matter how hard you try.'

I don't want to do anything. Your soldiers die, i dont mind at all. You are stealing their oil...i dont mind, you will pay for that in other means. YoOu are proud of this all. You = suck.

' Since you have such a good idea on how we need to handle this I have e-mailed the Dept. of Defense for you. I think they're interested in your services. Mr. Bush indicated he would like you to work closely with him on this war. Lucky you. You have a well paying job just waiting for you here in the good 'ol USA. '

You are very kind, thank you. However i would never let my kid to be in a school where is a good chance some moron teenager will shot him dead wih their parent' gun'
I'm not talking to your administration. I was talking to ya, the simple peasant of the United States.

' lamasci, you want to know what we're doing in Iraq at the moment? Building back their economy and government. For all the people who wanted us to pull out, explain to me this. Would you leave an entire country by itself with no way to start their economy over, no government, and no way of life? I didn't think so. '

You give me a beer (not american :-) ) when iraq will be a place of a bloody Civil War when you finally give the governing rights back to them. if you do.

Sorry not a peasant. Wife and I make a hell of a living thanks. Pay our taxes every year and vote. Damn were sheep.

Congrats! Really! You owned a topic by being loud. No reasonable thinking, just the volume. Nice achievement.



LOL,No reasonable thinking?

This coming from the dolt that said we trained Osama.

Classic

FYI,because you type something,it doesn't mean it's true.


I did not see any reasonable arguement posted by you guys, what are you doing in iraq at this moment


You refuse to see any REASONABLE argument.They could have killed your entire family and you would still refuse to see any valid argument.

You're are narrow minded and a media whore.Faust,LL or even God for that matter will never change your mind or give a REASONABLE argument because you dont want to see it.


SOOO,we resort to what you do understand.

The United States runs the world,and there's pretty much nothing you or anyone can ever do to stop it.

Would you leave an entire country by itself with no way to start their economy over, no government, and no way of life?
And whó is responsible for that??

And whó is responsible for that??

Saddam

- The United States giving the Taliban millions and millions in order to make them stronger to "fight against drugs" (Drug export is still the by far biggest economic income of Afghanistan, do you think a country would seriously cut its biggest and almost only income?).
- The United States by giving the Taliban equipment for many millions in order to fight against the Russian Army.
- The United States in order to support Osama Bin Laden with Weapons and thereabouts for the above reasons.

DAMN I'm tired of this you worthless idiot.

Let's use your logic in a different way. You're from Switzerland. Switzerland engages in economic trade with other countries in Europe, including Germany. Switzerland engaged in economic trade with Germany in the 1800's and the early 1900's.

You therefore are responsible for World War II. Thanks for playing. I assume you'll commit ritual suicide as a result of your shame.

however I doubt this equipment is available in Irak.

One of the clueless mentioned the lack of DNA equipment in Iraq several pages ago.

Actually, you're pretty wrong. A former (rich, of course) AOL exec had a pet project in which he brought lots of DNA equipment and technicians into Serbia to identify people buried in mass graves. People who were looking for missing family members would come in and donate some blood whose characteristics would be entered into databases.

This guy is now doing the same thing in Iraq. And that's the civilian side of it - it's possible the military has even more advanced equipment.

Did you know the Bush family did and does business with the Bin Laden family? OH but of course his famnily has nothing to do with Bin Laden himself. They abandonned Osama many decades ago.. well, at least besides during that marriage 3 years ago, 2 months before the 911 attacks where Osama got caught on a video tape celebrating with his families.

You just keep posting the same things you read off propaganda websites over and over.

Please provide a link to information about this wedding.

'You stand there and cry and we'll continue to "save the world". '

- That line's been used more than "Get yer coat, you've pulled."
And whoever thinks America trained Osama is an IDIOT.







They just armed him.

Bad enough, one would think.
Its funny, first arm them, support them, make business with them and then suddenly condemn them, invade them, kill them. Happened twice so far, more to come!
Saddam AND Osama Bin Laden have been made strong by the United States.

And once again... I am not an anti american. For gods sake, stop telling this bullshit. "I am sick of your antiamerican bullshit". blabla... always the same. This is all you are able to tell me in responce?
What about you just look at my word and write down what you disagree with and why? Its called a "discussion".

I don't give a damn how you consider my words. Call them anti american all you want, call them nazi talk, call them cheesy bullshit. it doesn't change the fact that this is simply my opinion. I am not against America, or the United States. I am against your Bush Administration. The whole damn bunch of em.

You make it very easy for yourself by condemning other people's opinion. Whenever anyone says anyhting against Bush, you call it anti-american, unpatriotic, pro-terrorist. Just because an opinion does not support your current political leaders.

What if a german would have spoken up against Hitler 70 years ago? Would he have been "anti-german"? Unpatriotic? Pro-terrorist?
NO! He would have been a great patriot, because he speakes up against bad leaders of his country.
Schindler, remmeber him? The guy that saved thousands of jews? The guy hollywood made a movie about?
DO you think he was "anti-german"? "unpatriotic"?
NO! He sure loved his country (well if he was german), he just did what he believed was right for his country.

I like the United States. And I am sure every single American Citizen that opposes Bush and the war likes to be american. And exactly that's why those people (and I) speak up and oppose Bush, be it on a silly webforum like me, or on protests of all sorts. Those people don't want the United States (and the planet) to go down the drain and turn all "right" and start wars. They disagree with the current president. Does this make them unamerican?

Only because you have a fucking idiot as president does it make me an Anti-American, an America Hater just because I dislike him and his government?
I liked Clinton much more. Would I Have lived during JFK's administration, I'd have completely agreed with your president. Would you still have callewd me an Anti American and America Hater then? I'd still have the same views and personal opinions and ways of seeing life. I'd just agree with your president (althou JFK wasnt all holy either).

Think about this next time you call me an Anti-Aamerican.

Its funny, first arm them, support them, make business with them and then suddenly condemn them, invade them, kill them.

1. So. You think Afghanistan should be Soviet territory. And for that matter, Eastern Europe. And what the hell, all of Germany. Right? Can't have it both ways, Taino. Pick one. We either help Afghanistan in the 80's or we don't.

2. Philosophically, I agree with you on the "we armed them" thing. However, I believe it was the right thing to do. BUT. Everyone who thinks Osama is using the exact same AK-47 that the CIA dumped in Afghanistan 20 years ago - raise your hand. Now everyone who thinks the Taliban are using 20 year old STinger missiles, raise your hand. Or do you think maybe they've gotten funding elsewhere since then and purchase MORE weapons?


And once again... I am not an anti american.

Mm hmm. Sure. Right. You're used this argument before, and no one believed it then, either.


What about you just look at my word and write down what you disagree with and why? Its called a "discussion".

Because we got disgusted with you after you "discussed" the same anti-American, anti-Bush crap the 12th time. Now we're on the 247th time.

Do me a favor and ask your parents, how Osama was named during the Soviet-Afghan war. Do me an another one, go to the library and check out the newspapers from those times. He was a 'resistance fighter'. He received supplies from the goverment of the United States, cash, weapons, equipment, logistic, technology as well as from Western European countries and Saud-arabia. This is something you can not deny if you go and read the documents from the '80s. It was good at that time, they did in order to destabilize the Soviet Union. Just why to deny this? Why to try this as a 'secret'?
Because maybe, our own citizens will pay attention next time and we wont be able to unlimitedly do what we want?
Hope you got it

The enemy was the CCCP, the muslims were your (shit, our!) friends, so we used them.

He (they) just turned against the US after many years of one-sided Israel supporting policy in the middle-east AND after your soldiers were allowed to be deployed to Saud-Arabia.

go and goggle 'Osama resistance fight'. You will be surprised.

One more thing how clueless you are:

'Let's use your logic in a different way. You're from Switzerland. Switzerland engages in economic trade with other countries in Europe, including Germany. Switzerland engaged in economic trade with Germany in the 1800's and the early 1900's.
You therefore are responsible for World War II. '

And yes, by a pure luck, finally said something that is true. Swiss - neutral - banks helped German economy. They saved the german's leaders assets after the war. They were collaborating - in an economy aspect - with the Nazi Germany. As well as Vatican was collaborating with them, in many many disgusting ways.

All in all. The larger part of the Muslim world HATES you.
They do it, because of your wrong palestin policy and 'stealing' their oil. You will be never welcomed there and no system that was set up by the USA alone will ever functionate properly in the middle east. Holy shit, they even bomb their own nation, when its lead by pro-US governments. Do you think they will ever believe 'we are here to free Iraq and build an economy and government for you just because we are the good guys'?
no, they won't. And it might not affect you, your parties, your administration...but just don't be shocked when 12-16 fucking stupid suicide terrorists kill 7000+ american again. It's not us, for who important to understand what is (and was) going on there. IT IS YOU.

Just so we're clear on the oil imports/exports thing, here's the DOE numbers for 2002 oil imortation.

http://www.ott.doe.gov/facts/archives/images/fotw246.gif

http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/rankings/crudebycountry.htm

24% of US oil comes from the middle east. Saudia Arabia is roughly two thirds of that, leaving 8% of US oil coming from the rest of the middle-east COMBINED. About 5% of all US oil comes from Iraq.

Middle east oil, in general is exported something to the tune of 65% Asia, 25% Europe, 10% North America.

As to the 40% figure, try 29%. Guess who gets the rest? Europe! Oh n0s!Net Oil Exports (2002E): 1.58 million bbl/d
U.S. Oil Imports from Iraq (2002E): 459,000 bbl/dAt least check your facts, kids.

"[The US is] nothing but...killing people, bringing misery and lies all over the planet..." - Taino 2003

Just so someone doesn't try to say I'm editing posts later to make things up, those are Iraq's exports there quoted at the bottom. We take 29% of them, but they only make up 5% of our imports.

Years: 2000,2001,2002.
When the world was prohibited to buy oil from iraq. only food for oil project worked.

Check this chart in two years. Thats why they [GWB+Rumsfeld] started this war. nothing else. you 've found it.

Btw, I fully supported the US invasion during the war.
It was because Saddam was a dictator and i thought US has a concept what to do after Saddam. And it was because I was sure Saddam has biological and chemical weapons.

Saddam went, thats great. He deserves death (the first time i say it for someone) but politically it would be contraproductive to execute him.
US concept what to do after is wrong. I'm pessimistic, they wont be able to make a working country/government this way.

And no WoMDs. That was a lie. Either a direct lie or a huge mistake. It's a shame that noone is (CIA? Rumsfeld? ) punished for that. I think Bush himself is weak. The real power is not in his hands.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAA. We started this war to protect America from people like SH and OBL and others of his ilk. Now the world sees what happens when you fuck with America. I just don't understand your points I guess guys. Your all sheep to the rhetoric because you have a different opinion. Cool. I disagree. Leave it at that and please stop crying. If you think it shoud be done differently please have your country step up to the plate and give it a swing. until that day comes get over it.

I think Bush himself is weak. The real power is not in his hands.Take some time and read up on how the government of the United States works. The bulk of the authority in the US government lies in the Judicial and Legislative branches - not the Executive.Check this chart in two years. Thats why they [GWB+Rumsfeld] started this war. nothing else. you 've found it.Why must I do everyone ELSES homework. Please call your attention to page 13 of the following PDF:

www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_g...APTER4.PDF (http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/analysis_publications/petroleum_issues_trends_1996/CHAPTER4.PDF)

You'll see that from 1985 on, when we were only importing 3,200 tb/d, Iraq still falls into the lump sum of "rest of the world." Iraq has never contributed more than (as best as I can tell) 5-6% of our imported oil.

You make it very easy for yourself by condemning other people's opinion. Whenever anyone says anyhting against Bush, you call it anti-american, unpatriotic, pro-terrorist. Just because an opinion does not support your current political leaders.

You, good sir, spew unbased bullshit with every post. I can respect an opposite opinion if it's well founded and properly supported - which usually holds true for Shosa and Daidal. Consider doing thorough research first.

Schindler, remmeber him? The guy that saved thousands of jews? The guy hollywood made a movie about?
DO you think he was "anti-german"? "unpatriotic"?
NO! He sure loved his country (well if he was german), he just did what he believed was right for his country.

And here you destroy your entire argument. Schindler did not run around spouting propaganda. He actually - get this - acted toward a goal he felt was right, as you said yourself.

So you find the Bush administration to be evil incarnate? Stop taking homoerotic pictures of yourself and try doing something about it. Be a man and stand up for your convictions.

Do me a favor and ask your parents, how Osama was named during the Soviet-Afghan war. Do me an another one, go to the library and check out the newspapers from those times


1. I have not denied the philosophical argument that the U.S. "armed Osama" 25 years ago. However, no one has proven that Osama is actually, today, using weapons we provided. And you can't prove it, either. He most likely isn't. It's simply a convenient way to attack U.S. policy.

2. If you can find instances where the U.S. has obtained oil without paying for it in the last 30 years (i.e. "stolen") in the MidEast, I'd like to hear about it. I believe MidEast countries have made quite a profit from us.

3. I know you're probably young. So you assume you really know your stuff. I'm not as young as you. There is no need to consult my parents on this subject. Here's an instance where I'll swing my internet penis a bit. During the time of the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, I was in college, on scholarship to a speech/debate team. I wrote and delivered several thousand extemporaneous style speeches on this subject. But, I'll check the conspiracy websites. My scholarship was probably paid for by Texaco who was secretly stealing oil from Iraq via a covertly installed underground pipeline.

4. Also, please note that none of Osama's "issues" with the U.S. directly affect him. He is wealthy, and could live quite a nice life if he wanted to. He looks for a fight. He travelled to Afghanistan voluntarily to fight. After the Soviets left, he needed a new enemy. His hate is grounded in religious fundamentalism, not in love of a particular country or cause.

www.foxnews.com/story/0,2...54,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,105854,00.html)

Ahhh the importance of capturing Saddam grows...

Next useless opinion Taino?

Christopher...

that is just a peice of what i expect to see more of, from the capture of saddam, hopefully this can turn into a huge gutting out of these type of cells

You know what's weird? He wanted to disguise himself - so he grew a beard to look like Osama Bin Laden.
*blink*

Also.. "I am Saddam Hussien, and I am willing to negotiate?"
Well.. yeah. With what? "I got a mars bar wrapper here, let's do a deal." Sitting in your own pool of piss isn't a good place to negotiate from, mate.

Yeah, the 750,000 probably wasn't handy =/ The hole was barely enough room for him, much less mad lewts.

Jesus,how pissed off will Taino be when we wipe out terrorism?

He may have to go outside and do stuff.

'1. I have not denied the philosophical argument that the U.S. "armed Osama" 25 years ago. However, no one has proven that Osama is actually, today, using weapons we provided. And you can't prove it, either. He most likely isn't. It's simply a convenient way to attack U.S. policy. '

You have not denied, but what others did. Because it did not fit in their 'view'
Osama/Talibans/armed terrorists are using the weapons of Afhganistan. They have and using 25 years old tanks, helicopters, kalasnyikovs. What you think how they got those?


'2. If you can find instances where the U.S. has obtained oil without paying for it in the last 30 years (i.e. "stolen") in the MidEast, I'd like to hear about it. I believe MidEast countries have made quite a profit from us. '

Uhm. This is what they are 'questioning' They don't think you/we paid a fair price.

3. I know you're probably young. So you assume you really know your stuff. I'm not as young as you. There is no need to consult my parents on this subject. Here's an instance where I'll swing my internet penis a bit. During the time of the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, I was in college, on scholarship to a speech/debate team. I wrote and delivered several thousand extemporaneous style speeches on this subject. But, I'll check the conspiracy websites. My scholarship was probably paid for by Texaco who was secretly stealing oil from Iraq via a covertly installed underground pipeline.

If you were 20ish during that war, than you remember what and how happened that time. You know US used Osama, and he was a hero of the resistance fighters of afghanistan. When the guys on this board denies it (most likely they don't know it!) why don't you enlighten them?It doesnt important? Osama used the same strategy against the soviets (helped by the CIA and European secret services) that he is using now against the US. In SA, in Iraq (if he coordinates the new attacks there). They were freedom fighters then. They are evil terrorists now. The Gruz fighters (you know, those who blown up some houses, trains, occupied the theatre in moscow, attacking russian soldier in gruiz with suicide bombers) were named resistance fighters by the US until the very recent days. You have warned Moscow 10000 times to get out from there. OPPPS? When it's against russia it is ok. when it is against you, you cry a river if half of the world protests against your action.


4. Also, please note that none of Osama's "issues" with the U.S. directly affect him. He is wealthy, and could live quite a nice life if he wanted to. He looks for a fight. He travelled to Afghanistan voluntarily to fight. After the Soviets left, he needed a new enemy. His hate is grounded in religious fundamentalism, not in love of a particular country or cause.

What if Lincoln in the 1700s stays on his ass and 'live quite a nice life'?
Osama + fundamentalists hates Israel, hates the US who strongly supported them during some wars since '45.
They hate that you are in Saud-arabia, they will hate that you are in iraq.

'Jesus,how pissed off will Taino be when we wipe out terrorism?'

All of us would be happy if you could wipe out terrorism. But this form of terrorism can not be wiped out. It's not an organization or an army that you can fight face to face. It's 100.000+ people in little cells, hiding, setting traps, doing ground zero's. They can't win over you. Not in the military sense. But you can't defeat them either. At least now with the strategy US using at this moment.

Not in the military sense. But you can't defeat them either. At least now with the strategy US using at this moment.

You must be like a 4 star general with years of training and been in several wars to come out with that statement. Do you people realize how fricken arrogant you sound..when in fact you probably have "zero" military back ground/experience.
You must have insider information and know exactly how our troops are run. Take a look at that card deck buddy...its dwendling down daily. Doesnt matter if we take one terrorist a day out..one less to dirty up this world.

Talk about arm chair quaterbacks..lol.

What if a german would have spoken up against Hitler 70 years ago? He or she would have been arrested by the SS. Let your imagination take you from there.

You don't see what I'm talking to about, do you?


Terrorism is not and never was for terrorism sake. Terror, this form of terror currently making a war on the US is the result of a generation (or two) who has grown up in an anti-american atmosphere (and we know, why the atmosphere was liek that, yes?) . This is not a military question at all, but sociological question. These terrorits are not like the ones were known before. You can kill the terrorists (well, they kill themselves) you can kill Osama (and yes, that would be very good) but that will not end terrorism. It will be weakened for 1 or 2 years, but if the conditions, while they can exist (the support of like 90pct of the musulman world) there will be always new and new Osamas. The society will grow them if they are needed.

This is one thing why traditional military actions can not end in a final solution. Just in a never ending they-hit-us-we-hit-back cycle.

The second, why army operations like afghanistan and iraq can not bring final solution is more simple. And you don't have to be a general or anything to think about it.

When you enter their territory they won't go out and face your forces. Yes, you are stronger and in an 1v1 war they have no chance. But they are not stupid (unfortunately). They will hide. Do you remember somalia? Or vietnam? They are doing the same, however they are less in numbers. As soon as the war is at their house they gonna use guerilla tactics.
And never in the history since 1900 a traditional army could successfully fight against guerillas. Germans were beat in Yugoslavia, Russia, French and US in Korea, Japanese in China, US in Vietnam, Soviets in afghanistan. And i'm sure i did not mention many more. Terorist has nothing lose. Think with their head. Their brain is washed, they think they go to heaven or so if they sacrifice their life. They are poor. They don't risk their assets, house, etc. See, israel destroys every terrorists house after he blown himself up, making his family homeless. And still, they continue to attack Israel every day.
The army and secret service of israel killed hundreds of palestine fundamentalist, including officers and leaders. Did they manage to reach anything? Yes, their own nation is divided, palestines and arabs hate them still, and half of the world think they suck. And yeah, less tourists, less investments.

You see what I say? I would gladly see some counter-arguments, reasonables ones. (not the we rocksorz!!!!1111!!! because thats not the question this time)

Edit:

Just one more thought. While the adminsitration of US will be voted in our out every 4 years - so they are responsible for their actions - the terrorists are not. They don't have exact goals, strategy, they are not responsible for any of their action to their 'nation'. Pretty fucking hard to fight against them. Only once they have to make such an attack like 9/11 was, and lets say to get some chemical weapon to their hands. What if next time they don't kill 7000 in new york, but 100.000 with poision from the air? An army can't protect us against such a threaten. Secret services can. or should.

I am sure rooting you terrorism will never end...do you see the crime rate in the US just stop all of sudden because we have police trying to stop it..that be "No." No one is arguing that terrorism will ever be gone but sure as nothing will happen if you just let it go year after year..Do you understand?

I don't live in a world were we turn the other cheek and I sure as hell glad my government isnt either.
If by attacking these people were they live brings more terrorist to our soil, then so be it. Doing nothing at all is by far worse imo.

You keep hiding in your little country sooner or later by doing nothing they will attack the weak when they find out the US is a fucking bee hive that they cannot destroy.

They have and using 25 years old tanks, helicopters, kalasnyikovs. What you think how they got those?

Dear dumbass,

1- Klashnikov is not an American made weapon. I'll give you a hint where they are commonly (but not exclusively) manufactured. Starts with an "R" and ends with a "ussia", or possibly a "C" and ends with "hina", and several smaller countries around those two.

2- I've seen two captured helicopters from Afghanistan (probably the only two that they had) and both were of the "Hind" brand. Once again, not of American manufacture.

3- Taliban had functioning tanks?

4- All troop transport and tanks that I happened to see on the tube, and in photographs of Iraq had "Warsaw Pact Army-Navy Surplus" written all over them. I did not see an American piece of hardware shooting in the wrong direction.

5- Number 4 (above, for the chronologically challenged) rang true during Desert Shield / Desert Storm / Operation Provide Comfort / No-Fly Zone enforcement. Are you trying to tell me that we somehow gave them American equipment between 1990 and 2003?

This is what they are 'questioning' They don't think you/we paid a fair price.

Show me where this is the case. You are dense, but do you expect me to believe that YOU believe someone sells something to another person, then turns around after 30 years and says, "That was too cheap, YOU ARE TEH RIPPAR OFF OF ME!" Show me where this is the case, and not some socialist wet-dream you had for the last five years you could read.

It doesnt important? Osama used the same strategy against the soviets (helped by the CIA and European secret services) that he is using now against the US.

No! "It does important!" Except now we're cleaning up our mess. Nice to see Europe joining in to help straighten up the...no, wait. Disregard the last part.

They can't win over you. Not in the military sense.

The first thing you've said that made sense today!

But you can't defeat them either.

I disagree. Then again, I'd be using a different strategy (nuking one major city in their "Holy Land" for every ten American's killed in terrorist attacks. If they can "pay" families for "martyrs", I'd just see if there were as many people willing to turn in cells to not end up a fine ash in the stratosphere - guess we're all lucky I'm not in charge...yet.)

At least now with the strategy US using at this moment.

So tell me, Erwin Rommel, master of strategy, how would YOU handle it? Please, don't even say "Remove Israel", because as we all know it was the fucking UN that put them there in the first damn place. We've been the only ones so far to have the balls to stick to our word and keep backing up the people that Europe (via displacement and UN) put there. You spineless, fucking, honorless, douchebags.

First off.
You never stated WHAT is the cause of Terrorism.

You vaguely hinted that US foriegn policy has created Terrorism..
Uhhh.. no.

The Mid East is a broken region. The US never broke it. Believe it or not.. most likely not.. we are not the cause of everything bad that happens to the world.

One of the key problems is a lack of educational system and a lack of free speech.
The void of the Educational system is filled by Islamic run schools, paid for and run by devout Muslims. Now the Problem with this is that Islam has a very Militant side. There is a strong and powerful will to unite all the Arab nations under one banner.. Saddam has it.. Al-Queda has it. Its a new Breed of Nationalism. I can show you the direct route of this right from the Nazis. It comes from a the same rabid tradition of Anti-Semetism. There can be no doubt that Muslims are the most hateful people toward Jews. The vast majority of Arabs believe every lie and sterotype about the Jewish people. Once again.. Ill back all this up on request.
So, the combination of this will to Power of Nationalism, the control of the youth through these Muslim schools, and the use of the common enemy of Israel. And what is the Number One reason we are hated in the Mid East? We support Israel.
Wanna see one of the books distributed by the Palestinian Authority in 2003?
http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/gallery/images/6-Mein%20Kampf_jpg_jpg_jpg.jpg
nice eh?

The agenda and political faith of Saddam Hussein, Yasir Arafat, bin Laden, Hamas, and the rest of the international Islamic terrorists can be traced back to World War II and two key figures, Adolf Hitler and Amin al-Husseini known as the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem. Much has been written about the Mufti, all well documented, including chapters by such prominent authors as Connor Cruise O'Brien, former Irish Ambassador to the U.N. Mountains of documented evidence is out there and available to anyone who cares to look.

The Nuremberg and Eichmann trials revealed that Nazi official Adolf Eichmann met with the British appointed Mufti in Palestine in 1937. Following this meeting, the Mufti would become essentially an agent of Nazi Germany charged with the funding and organizing of pro-Nazi organizations in Egypt, Syria, Palestine and Iraq.

In 1941, along with Rashid Ali and Kharaillah Tulfah, Saddam Hussein's uncle guardian and later father in law, the Mufti instigated a pro-Nazi coup in Iraq with Nazi supplied weapons and aircraft. After the coup failed, the Mufti fled to Berlin where he would hold his first of several meetings with Adolf Hitler. At this meeting the Mufti was reported to have dissuaded Hitler from considering the deportation of the Jews to Palestine. Instead, the Mufti advocated and even possibly suggested what came to be known as the final solution against the Jews. In 1942, the Mufti would intervene and stop the Nazis from exchanging 10,000 Jewish children for Nazi POW's.

The Mufti's activities in Nazi Germany and occupied Europe would set the stage for today's Islamic terrorism. On April 25th, 1941, the Nazi's sent the Mufti to Nazi occupied Bosnia where he assumed the title "Protector of Islam." On February 10, 1943, Hitler ordered the creation of the Nazi SS Division Hanzar and approximately 100,000 Bosnian Muslims volunteered. The Mufti, serving as chief administrator, referred to these Nazi-Muslim brigades as "the cream of Islam."

The Hanzars, deriving their name from the type of dagger carried by Ottoman officers, played an active role in the extermination of Christians and Jews in the Balkans. The Mufti attempted to implement the Nazi "Pejani Plan" which called for the extermination of the Christian Serbs and which the Nazis eventually abandoned. All in all, the Bosnian Muslim Hanzars assisted in the extermination of approximately 200,000 Christian Serbs, 40,000 Gypsies and 22,000 Jews.

In 1943, Hitler appointed the Mufti as head of a Nazi-Muslim government in exile. From his headquarters in Berlin, a confiscated Jewish mansion, the Mufti laid out plans for a concentration camp for Jews near Nablus in Palestine modeled after Aushwitz. Photos exist of the Mufti touring Aushwitz with Heinrich Himmler. Nazi attitudes regarding Islam were perhaps best expressed by Himmler who is reported to have stated "I have nothing against Islam because it educates the men in this division for me and promises them heaven if they fight and are killed in action. A very practical and attractive religion for soldiers."

Deriving financial support from a fund of confiscated Jewish money known as the Sonderfund, the Mufti was installed as head of the Nazi created Islamic Institute (Islamische Zentralinstitut) in Dresden where he would begin the process of educating future Islamic leaders in Nazi ideology. To spur them on to victory, the Mufti delivered a speech in Berlin on March 1, 1944 to an audience of Hanzar troops in which he said, "Kill the Jews wherever you find them. This pleases god, history, and religion. This saves your honor. God is with you." On that day, future Islamic terrorists received their marching orders.

The PLO and notably Arafat himself do not make a secret of their source of inspiration. The Grand Mufti el-Husseini is venerated as a hero by the PLO. It should be noted, that the PLO's top figure in east Jerusalem today, Faisal Husseini, is the grandson to the Führer's Mufti. Arafat also considers the Grand Mufti a respected educator and leader, and in 1985 declared it an honor to follow in his footsteps. Little wonder. In 1951, a close relative of the Mufti named Rahman Abdul Rauf el-Qudwa el-Husseini matriculated to the University of Cairo. The student decided to conceal his true identity and enlisted as "Yasser Arafat."

Another place to look is Bosnia and Chechnya.. Nowhere has Nazism and Wahhabism (radical Islam) blended together so seemlessly. It is open and it is outright.
in Palestine
http://www.healthsystem.virginia.edu/internet/csmhi/suicide-bomber-psychology.pdf\\
“Hajj Amin Al Husseini (1895-1974) was the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem... He supported the Nazis, and especially their program for the mass murder of the Jews. He visited numerous death camps and encouraged Hitler to extend the "Final Solution" to the Jews of North Africa and Palestine. In 1946 he escaped to Egypt.” [Simon Wiesenthal Center Web Site]

excerpts from the interview:

Interviewer: “I have heard voices from within the [Palestinian] Authority in the past few weeks, saying that the reforms are coordinated according to American whims…”

Arafat: “We are not Afghanistan…We are the Mighty People. Were they able to replace our hero Hajj Amin al-Husseini? ... There were a number of attempts to get rid of Hajj Amin, whom they considered an ally of the Nazis. But even so, he lived in Cairo, and participated in the 1948 war, and I was one of his troops.”
[Al Sharq al Awsat, a London Arabic daily, reprinted in the Palestinian daily Al Quds, Aug, 2, 2002]
http://notendur.centrum.is/~snorrigb/mufti5.htm
This man...Al-Husseni was a Wahhabist
in afganistan
http://www.charitywire.com/charity11/00695.html

Most of All.. you need to understand Wahhabism
http://i-cias.com/e.o/wahhabis.htm
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-schwartz113001.shtml
Saudi Arabia
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,55321,00.html

Is it any wonder that most of the 9/11 Hijackers are from Saudi Arabia? the Hotbed of wahhabism..
Is it any wonder that the Taliban, a wahhabist group, used Nazi tactics and ideology?
Is it any wonder that suicide bombers flow from Palestine orphanages?

There was a great Evil in the 20th Century.. It did not die. It is trying to re-emerge in the Middle-East under a different Name.. Pan-Arabism and Wahhabism.

What the US was doing before 9/11 obviously wasnt working. The Situation there was in a tailspin.. getting worse as radical powers got stronger.
President Bush decided that the US must take a different approach.
No longer is the US going to rely on people to fight battle we should be fighting. We made the mistake of pitting a lesser evil against a greater one. It didnt work.
So what do we do?
We start by NO LONGER TOLERATING THE EXISTANCE OF ONE OF THE MOST EVIL AND MURDEROUS MEN OF THE LAST 100 years.

Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Saddam Hussien. His name belongs on that list. More than payed for with the blood of his own people.

Standing back didnt work in the Middle East.. Letting them handle their own business resulted in the death of 3000 people in NYC.
No more.
The US WILL be an active hand in this region. We WILL face and destroy and threat to the peace of the area.. Pan-Arabism WILL be crushed.

This new policy is the direct result of the failure of the old.

They have and using 25 years old tanks, helicopters, kalasnyikovs. What you think how they got those?

'Dear dumbass,'

We are at the point. This is neccessary eh? This make you look...'right'. Clever. Intelligent. and...nevermind.

1- Klashnikov is not an American made weapon. I'll give you a hint where they are commonly (but not exclusively) manufactured. Starts with an "R" and ends with a "ussia", or possibly a "C" and ends with "hina", and several smaller countries around those two.

Yes i know who invendted, and which countries produced it.
You think Russia armed afghanistan with their own weapons?
LOL. no. Russia armed the Afghan army in the '70s. Western E. Unio + US armed the resistance fighters through Pakistan , financing the same technology.

Same for second point. And third.

At third point: yes they had some operative tanks. I saw a pictuer (were pretty famous in the press, even in US press), an airport hit by two bombs, made by a satellite. On the airfield 2 tanks were burnt out.

4, During the Iran VS Iraq war Soviets armed Iran, USA armed Iraq, including Wmods, at least technology of WOMDs.
When iraq turned against the kurds, and later on went to heavy anti-american state, russia equipped them, however (!!) they had french and american weapons too!

5, Are you trying to tell me that we somehow gave them American equipment between 1990 and 2003?.
No i never said that. But before that, yes, you gave them pretty much equipment.

This is what they are 'questioning' They don't think you/we paid a fair price.

' Show me where this is the case. You are dense, but do you expect me to believe that YOU believe someone sells something to another person, then turns around after 30 years and says, "That was too cheap, YOU ARE TEH RIPPAR OFF OF ME!" Show me where this is the case, and not some socialist wet-dream you had for the last five years you could read.'

Then why do they hate you?
Hey, there is a big country, 10000 miles away, lets hate it.
and some hundred million people shouts: YES WE hate them.
guess what, whats the reason?

'No! "It does important!" Except now we're cleaning up our mess. Nice to see Europe joining in to help straighten up the...no, wait. Disregard the last part.'
European countries were your partner in a mission against the taliban. Dont mix up it with iraq tho....you missed the fucking 'no terrorists here' message at the border.
Fuck afghans, fuck saud arabia, fuck pakistan, fuck syria, fuck south-turkey (omfg a NATO ally????) fuck lebanon, fuck iran.
There you can find terrorists. Iraq was the least religious country in the region, and the one who did not give a shit about terrorists. The campaign against iraq in the name of 'War on Terror' is a bullshit. There is not one evidance that iraq ever supported terrorist forces. Bush said: We do iraq next, because of WMOD, and etc etc etc. But they did not show any simple example of terrorist in that country.



But you can't defeat them either.

I disagree. Then again, I'd be using a different strategy (nuking one major city in their "Holy Land" for every ten American's killed in terrorist attacks. If they can "pay" families for "martyrs", I'd just see if there were as many people willing to turn in cells to not end up a fine ash in the stratosphere - guess we're all lucky I'm not in charge...yet.)

Better not to comment this. Paksitan has nuclear weapons. Also Israel has. Iran will have one soon, as well as north korea. Wanna start a nuclear war? You think thats the good solution? Want your big fat ass burned by a fucking Russian or Chinese nuke, among with 10.000.000 new yorker?

Find other solution.


So tell me, Erwin Rommel, master of strategy, how would YOU handle it? Please, don't even say "Remove Israel", because as we all know it was the fucking UN that put them there in the first damn place. We've been the only ones so far to have the balls to stick to our word and keep backing up the people that Europe (via displacement and UN) put there.

If i knew how to finally defeat them i would be your fucking administration' member. Seriously:

I don't know. This is a so deep shit for 30+years now, that there is no solution this simple. I think the best would be to aimedly eliminate current terrorist leaders with secret services and special forces. Then leave middle east as it is, and let do their own business.



You spineless, fucking, honorless, douchebags.


....


-Faust

'You keep hiding in your little country sooner or later by doing nothing they will attack the weak when they find out the US is a fucking bee hive that they cannot destroy.'

- Oh dear god.
People actually think like this?

Then leave middle east as it is, and let do their own business.

Yea right. They have been doing that for hundreds of years and have FAILED TO FUCKING EVOLVE LIKE THE REST OF THE WORLD.

Either get with the program or go the way of the American Indian.

Uhm. This is what they are 'questioning' They don't think you/we paid a fair price.

Um, price policy is set by OPEC and specific prices are set by commodities markets. We pay (within pennies) the same price everyone else does. You have no base here for debate.


You know US used Osama, and he was a hero of the resistance fighters of afghanistan.

source, please. I get really tired of wading through the propaganda. Get it through your thick head that he was just one of many. We didn't "use" him any more than the Major League Baseball PLayers Associated "uses" Jose Canseco for free advertising.

www.google.co.hu/search?q...t=450&sa=N (http://www.google.co.hu/search?q=osama+resistance+fighter&hl=hu&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&start=450&sa=N)

check the links.
But hard to show a source if you say all of them is blblabalba.

Googling "osama" and "gay" yields the same result. It must be true!

www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=osama+gay&btnG=Google+Search (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=osama+gay&btnG=Google+Search)

I think you need to read the actual text of those articles. "Osama...famous Afghan war hero" in the description text does not mean that Osama was a famous war hero. I means that the text phrases "Osama" and "famous Afghan war hero" are in the same article.

amascsi-

We are at the point. This is neccessary eh? This make you look...'right'. Clever. Intelligent. and...nevermind.

No. *I* am at that point, as I am sure many others are. You just happened to arrive too late to see me (us) being rational, and finally deciding that as we were going to make no progress with the Tainos and Hartmuts of the board. Sorry if you're bearing the brunt of their inability to exercise common sense, but such is life.

Yes i know who invendted, and which countries produced it.

Then how can you sit there and say it was given to them by the US? Whatever you do, do not let facts get in the way of what you want to be true.

You think Russia armed afghanistan with their own weapons?

I'm doubt the Russians directly supplied them, but the point remains that those are not of US manufacture. You are wrong.

LOL. no. Russia armed the Afghan army in the '70s. Western E. Unio + US armed the resistance fighters through Pakistan , financing the same technology.

I'm not entirely sure what you just said there. Are you running this shit through babelfish or something?

Same for second point. And third.

You are wrong for all three then. Those are not US weapons.

At third point: yes they had some operative tanks. I saw a pictuer (were pretty famous in the press, even in US press), an airport hit by two bombs, made by a satellite. On the airfield 2 tanks were burnt out.

Well, if it's such a famous picture, you'll have no problem showing me a link to it. Hell, it'll be fun, we can play the "What type of tank are we looking at" game. Cough it up, it's "pretty famous", so shouldn't be that hard for you.

4, During the Iran VS Iraq war Soviets armed Iran, USA armed Iraq, including Wmods, at least technology of WOMDs.
When iraq turned against the kurds, and later on went to heavy anti-american state, russia equipped them, however (!!) they had french and american weapons too!

Really? Which American weapons did they have? I'm not saying they didn't have them, but since you're a virtual Jane's Almanac of US Weapon Supply Chain History, I'd like to hear your professional analysis.

5, No i never said that. But before that, yes, you gave them pretty much equipment.

Which "pretty much" equipment did we give them that were used against us since 9/11? Please show where you got this information. I doubt very much you can, without linking me to the latest "HATE AMERICA AND BUSH SUKS HEGEMONY BAD SUPPORT TERRORISTS" electronic equivalent of a cross between the National Enquirer and Pravda.


Then why do they hate you?
Hey, there is a big country, 10000 miles away, lets hate it.
and some hundred million people shouts: YES WE hate them.
guess what, whats the reason?

That's your proof? Good Christ, I've bought my kids a plastic wading pool with more depth than that. Your evidence of the US allegedly paying too little from oil is "they hate you"? You lose this point too.

European countries were your partner in a mission against the taliban. Dont mix up it with iraq tho....you missed the fucking 'no terrorists here' message at the border.

There are no terrorists in Iraq? This is your statement? Alrighty...

Fuck afghans, fuck saud arabia, fuck pakistan, fuck syria, fuck south-turkey (omfg a NATO ally????) fuck lebanon, fuck iran.
There you can find terrorists. Iraq was the least religious country in the region, and the one who did not give a shit about terrorists. The campaign against iraq in the name of 'War on Terror' is a bullshit. There is not one evidance that iraq ever supported terrorist forces. Bush said: We do iraq next, because of WMOD, and etc etc etc. But they did not show any simple example of terrorist in that country. (Emphasis mine)

Well, looks like you have me on this...no, wait...I think we have some late breaking news: <a href="http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/12/14/wterr14.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/12/14/ixnewstop.html&secureRefresh=true&_requestid=23174" target=new>Whoops.</a>

Well, you can't win them all, right, Iamascsi? (LOL, you'll be hard pressed to tie on a single point here.)

Better not to comment this. Paksitan has nuclear weapons. Also Israel has. Iran will have one soon, as well as north korea. Wanna start a nuclear war? You think thats the good solution? Want your big fat ass burned by a fucking Russian or Chinese nuke, among with 10.000.000 new yorker?

Well, we were dealing with a hypothetical situation there, one that will probably never happen, but you can bet your ass that the Missle Defense System for the US will be at 100% by the time I have taken control of the US nuclear force. Then, the WORLD WOULD BE MY HOSTAGE!!! *evil laugh*

If i knew how to finally defeat them i would be your fucking administration' member.

I don't know. This is a so deep shit for 30+years now, that there is no solution this simple.

Since you don't know, and don't have an answer, how about you STFU until you do know? Instead of offering alternative solutions, you just bitch about the ones that are being carried out. Well, get back in your seat and enjoy the ride, junior, becase not only are YOU not driving, but you have no say in the destination. I making that clear? Many people with much more experience, and MUCH better data than you or I (especially you) have are taking steps to fix a situation that you admittedly don't know how to fix.

Well, since you don't know I think the best would be to aimedly eliminate current terrorist leaders with secret services and special forces. Then leave middle east as it is, and let do their own business.

1- To a degree we are working on that
2- You need to watch less James Bond


I win. You lose.

-Faust

Sigh.

Afghanistan already had guns in the 80's. We gave them Stingers and probably some money. IF they have a tank, it was abandoned by the Russians. And the odds are 99.9% that it's for show, and doesn't work. They wouldn't be the first people to park old equipment out in the open for surveillance to pick up.

IIRC we didn't give weapons to Iraq. We gave them money. Any fool can watch CNN over the last 2 wars in Iraq and see that the weapons they have are Soviet and Chinese.

(edit, adding a paragraph)
Understand that the US doesn't give away weapon technology easily. Any weapon we'd have given Afghanistan or Iraq during the 80's would have been 20 to 30 years ahead of the Soviet and Chinese stuff they could buy on the market. Once we give it to them, it's a given that the Soviets would have it. We didn't want that. That's why we throw around cash instead. Also, cash is harder to trace. They take cash, buy Chinese weapons that could have come from anywhere in the world.

Actually the bulk of Iraqi weaponry (after their initial Warsaw Pact surplus was used up early in the war with Iran) was supplied by Egypt. Egypt parted with it because the US had made nice with them after they signed the Camp David accords and they were getting new US made equipment to replace the Russian junk they had. The Iraqi airforce was equipped with Soviet, Chinese or French aircraft (no American planes or missiles). The Germans and Yugoslavians provided them with bunkers. The US supplied satellite intelligence and sold them industrial goods.

Ironically, it was Iran who was (and is) using US manufactured weapons left over from the Shah. You could claim the US was arming both sides from that standpoint.

In Afghanistan, the vast majority of weapons used against the Soviets were from a variety of sources. The US provided stinger missiles and cash. The Chinese and Pakistanis sold them most of their small arms. The Russians themselves had a fair amount of equipment stolen or captured and used against them.

What you did NOT see was American made tanks or aircraft going to any of the muhajadeen. Stingers were provided because that is what would do the most damage to the Soviet occupation forces who relied heavily on close ground support aircraft. Likely they obtained some machineguns from Pakistan that were US made as well.

you guys babble to much. We supported the people when they helped us. We kill them when they hurt us.

GOSH AMERIKA IS ONLY TRYING TO HELP THEMSELVES? I MUST BE A RETARD? ITHOUGHT THEY WANTED EVERY ONE ELSE TO BE HAPPY?

Fuck everyone.


AMERICA FIRST.

Either get with the program or go the way of the American Indian.
I am Native American and can only say that I hope someone takes care of you in the way they have done to my ancestors.
Ignorant piece of shit that you are ...

OK, let me see you how I generally see the current situation in the middle east and Muslims vs US&co 'war'

Don't read this if you are not interested in a different opinion than your own and US' administration.
Also this is not about 'i win, you lose’ i think a forum is for discuss topics, not to own it. Im curious how people (some of them) are thinking over there. My aim is not to prove how Bush suck, but to let you know how we think it here (only some of us, of course).

As i wrote above, the geopolitical situation in the middle east is far more complicated than one like us could do a correct analysis about it. But let's see the history of the region.

Middle east - and the arabs there - never were in united in powerful country or were measured as a serious political factor since the Turkish empire in the middle-age. The region is the home of 250.000.000-280.000.000 million arabs.
The region has the largest and cheapest to recover from the land. During the ww2, Germans tried to get the oil fields here for their army. (See Rommel vs. Montgomery).

Before and bit after the second world war al states in the middle-east was under (more or less strict) protectorate of different Western European country. We all know how this protectorates worked, and what their goal was).
After the WW2, UN created an artificial state, Israel.

In the following years the European countries weakened by the WW2 could not maintain their protectorate and went out from the region. Arabs had to leave Israel' territory, like 1 million of them. This is when the so-called pan-arab union started to from. Recognize, arab/muslim world is not a homogen one. Many tribes - who do used to hate each other - fought many bloody little wars over the years. The only thing they share is their religion. The religion, which was weakened during the 1900' as well as Christian religion was. Islam is similar to the Christian, it can be understand in many ways, bloody, peaceful, strict, no-rights-to-the-woman, etc.

Israel and the exile of Arabs from there was the moment when Arabs recognized they are fucked up. And, most likely first time in their history agreed on something. Sure, they wanted to eliminate Israel from the region (all of them), and we know that Israel, with the strong support of US&co defeated them many times, in order to defend the UN decision. (Here i don't want to decide whether It was a good decision or not. Most likely it was necessary, and do not mention other reasons why Israel was supported so strong).

During the cold war, the superpowers (Soviet and US. but please remember, when i say Soviet i mean all his ally from the Warsaw pact as well as when i talk about Us i include West. Europe) did not dare to directly attack each other. Us hated communists, Soviets hated the capitalists, but they were clever enough to not to start a war, that would ended up in a total nuclear war. However, both sides played the next game. In certain areas of the world they supported different regimes and bite each other. They (both of them/us!) spent enormous amounts, know-how, technology for this wars. The game was simple. 1, win ideological war against the other, and prove to their nation they are right 2, get as much land as close to the other as you can. Deploying nuclear weapons to the neighborhood of the other country was a huge advantage. (This is the only reason why the Cuba-conflict happened and why Turkey is a member of the NATO at this moment.).
3, why middle east? Why not Eastern Europe? (Which, strategically (from clear army view) is more important and better developed than arab world) Because of the cheap oil.


Basically the whole middle east has been armed. Israel is openly by US weapons (they even have been allowed to acquire nuclear weapon) Other, arab countries just mostly (but not exclusively ) by Soviet-made weapons. Many wars had been fought. Millions of people became poor, homeless, were killed by WMODS, etc. This (the poverty and exasperation) made some forces (like Osama) to be able to use religion as a weapon. I don’t think Osama himself is very religious. It just a weapon they – successfully – use the have support of Arabs.

When cold war ended, and the US finally win everyone thought it is over...
Well.
The effect 40 years of different wars did not simply fade in the middle east. Every country has stupid leaders (Khadafi, Ajatollah, Saddam, Taliban, Syria, etc) whose only aim was war war and war. The ‘kids’ were allowed to play for 40 years but they did not want stop.
They needed a new enemy. And they found it. It is the US, who ‘supports Israel, rob our oil, kill our people, and put the carrot into our ass’. ( THIS IS NOT what I think. this is what they - muslim fanatists – say. In their media, to their people.). And many people over there thinks it is true. Only A very few of them see what (for example) Osama is really doing.

The US and Europe left the region as it was. They did not help to eliminate the incompetent leader of those countries. (for example: desert storm. you freed kuwait, but for unknown reasons you did not support the anti-saddam revolting forces in iraq). But the weapons stayed there.


Ok from now, really just my personal view.

This is why any western civilization and US is being hated there. Terrorists can work, and will work because they have strong support among the citizens. They have strong support and the reason is the same why nationalists all over the world can get support. Insane poverty unsolved sociological problems, religion, and artificially created enemies.


When this being responded by wars, especially wars based on questionable reasons (like Iraq. It does not matter if you are right or not now. The reasons are questionable) is just oil on the fire. At this moment 200.000.000 of arabs/muslims/etc was strengthened in his faith. Thousands (if not ten thousands) potential terrorists born these days. Governments of moderate countries - like egypt – will fail on the next election. War brings nationalism and war. The alternative solution could be divide and develop the arab world. Better education, higher life standards, stability and safety. I think this would be more effective solution in a long term.

thx for reading.

Ooookay.
Let me sum up this thread from the American perspective:


'Thank god Bush has the balls to do the right thing instead of playing that bullshit political game of trying to make everyone happy.'
[Oh jesus.. HAHAHAHAHAHA]

'i won't make the same ignorant mistake you are, I won't speculate based on wild conspiracy theory. '
[WoMD, anyone?]

'Your an idiot'
[I've always loved seeing this one]

'I could give a rat's ass about how you interpret this, because anyone with a brain'
[You could? How's that brain thing working out for you?]

'There are other languages other then American? '
[No comment]

'Im about this >< close to turning in the entirety of LOTJ to Jack Bauer and CTU..'
[It's funny because he thinks they exist]

'Letting hate and cynicism rule you that much is really sad. '
[This guy is American]

'As if WoMD was the main and only reason for going in'
[It's true.. he actually said that!]

'The reasons given for the war were WoMD and terrorist ties. That doesn't mean they were the true reasons'
[Six months ago, every Yank on this board was fighting this statement like hell.. now they're preaching it]

'The United States runs the world,and there's pretty much nothing you or anyone can ever do to stop it.'
[HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. GET ME SOME WATER! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA]

''You stand there and cry and we'll continue to "save the world". '
[*poses like Superman*]

'You keep hiding in your little country sooner or later by doing nothing they will attack the weak when they find out the US is a fucking bee hive that they cannot destroy.'
[I know.. he actually said that]

'You spineless, fucking, honorless, douchebags.'
[He puts up a good argument, you gotta admit]

'Either get with the program or go the way of the American Indian.'
[Did I mention the intelligence is dumb-founding?]

''GOSH AMERIKA IS ONLY TRYING TO HELP THEMSELVES? I MUST BE A RETARD? ITHOUGHT THEY WANTED EVERY ONE ELSE TO BE HAPPY?
Fuck everyone.
AMERICA FIRST.'
[You, a retard?]'

And a fitting conclusion..

'I think I'll go ahead and declare this thread another Pro-America victory. '

- Indeed. Well deserved.

'The reasons given for the war were WoMD and terrorist ties. That doesn't mean they were the true reasons'
[Six months ago, every Yank on this board was fighting this statement like hell.. now they're preaching it]

This is the most important statement of this (pretty funny) post of yours Halo.
6 months ago everyone of you was yelling at us, insulting us, threatening and shit because we said there were other reasons, that WoMD are just an excuse.
Today everyone KNOWS we were right and yet you a) don't remmeber and b) perfectly accept that your President lied to you. Once again you don't give a flying fuck about being the little stupid puppets of your master.
WoMD weren't the reason, Terrorist ties weren't the reasons. Both is proven to have been a lie in the first place. Still, noone seems to care.

Yeah lets just insult more euros, that's the really important mission you have!

So what was the reason, oh wise and knowledgable Taino?

Oh yes Taino the man who said we deserved what we got in NYC on 9/11. Fuck off.

Enjoy your visit in NYC and be sure to spout that off while you happen to be walking around town.

Taino the man who said we deserved what we got in NYC on 9/11
Fuck you, asshole. Yes, consider this a personal attack.
At least even REMOTELY read my posts. I would never ever...
Ah whatever, you obviously never ever read any of my posts, so you won't read this either. Asshole.

I did.. I caught the part about insulting Euros...you have done far more insulting on this board than an American has with that infamous post you had made.

So keep bring up what we posted 6 months ago because you hold the record tard.

6 months ago everyone of you was yelling at us, insulting us, threatening and shit because we said there were other reasons, that WoMD are just an excuse.

First, I don't think he speaks for all us of, now does he? Second, how does one guy saying something equate to "now everyone knows that I, the great Taino, was right"?


Terrorist ties weren't the reasons

By the way, the London Telegraph published an article 2 days ago about meetings between Iraqi intelligence and Mohammad Atta. Wasn't it linked on this board? Nothing causal - but the meetings happened, though you've always insisted they didn't.

Fuck you, asshole. Yes, consider this a personal attack.
At least even REMOTELY read my posts. I would never ever...
Ah whatever, you obviously never ever read any of my posts, so you won't read this either. Asshole.

Quiet, terrorist!

I am Native American and can only say that I hope someone takes care of you in the way they have done to my ancestors.

Eat my fucking ass with a spoon you anon bitch.

Survival of the fittest applies to everything on this earth.

You are the dumbest piece of shit on this fucking earth Marz.
You fucking scumbag.

Go on Yanks, this person is the piece of shit on your side.
GOOD FUCKING JOB.

These terrorits are not like the ones were known before. You can kill the terrorists (well, they kill themselves) you can kill Osama (and yes, that would be very good) but that will not end terrorism. It will be weakened for 1 or 2 years, but if the conditions, while they can exist (the support of like 90pct of the musulman world) there will be always new and new Osamas. The society will grow them if they are needed.


Did you happen to catch,what i like to call,your leader last night on Larry King,Bill Maher?


Now as idiotic I think that man is,he brought up some very valid points that I had not even thought about.



Heres the quote from the transcripts.



KING: Do I gather from your remarks you are opposed to us going into Iraq?

MAHER: Well, I was to begin with, but I always said it was a 60/40 for me. I always said I did not think going after a country that was not directly involved in 9/11 -- even though I know 70 percent of the American people think that's what happened -- was not the approach, you know? After World War II, we went after Japan. We didn't attack Spain. OK.

But you know what? The idea that Bush has -- and it is a big idea, I got to give him that. He's a guy with big ideas. The idea of transforming the Middle East and fighting this in a long-range way by having democracy in Iraq is not the worst idea I could think of, and I'm rooting for that plan.

KING: Sure.

MAHER: I think that plan could work. So it doesn't matter, those of us who felt we shouldn't do it to begin with -- we did it. Now we got to make sure that what we do there works. We have to leave a place better than we found it. We don't do that very often.




Interesting. "The Plan"

I'm sorry, I don't know who Maher is. The truth I did not turn the Tv on for some months now.

I don't say Bush or the US is evil, they suckorz or anything.

All I say is

1, The adinistration did not really thought the result of their action twice. (They did not answer any of the questions about how they want to stabilize the region in long term)

2, It was a badly communicated decision. They managed to turn half of their allies against themselves. Do not think French, Germany or anyone here in Europe in a governing position liked Saddam or cried a river when he was captured.
All the western states will profitate (you and we too) from the fall of Saddam. But it does matter how yo legitimate such an action.

3, They lied at many points (regarding the reasons: why we attack). The information was old, they have been misleaded by the Iraqi opposition, and they added some 'facts' which were not true.

4, They did not point out the real benefits of this war, indicating that reasons/goals are not that important for them.

Thats all.

Waaa waaaa. Cry. cry. Shut the fuck up Halo. Go back to coaxing Taino out of crying whenever someone kicks a puppy.

Listen to me you fucking little newbie.
Get the fuck off this board, go back to the hole you crawled out with, spending all those winter nights fucking Saddam up the ass while he eats mars bars.
I've no clue why the American Government is wasting money trying to remove the scum of the earth in Iraq when you're a member of their fucking country.

You, dipship, have an IQ of a fucking gold fish.

"OMG DUEDZ SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST WTF OMGOSH"

Get some perspective you fucking TWAT.

Bill Maher has been backpedaling his ass off the last month or so.

His words are especially funny if you contrast them with his bitter whining diatribes on his latest HBO special.

OH NOZ!1 Halo callxored me a NUBIE!1

It's fun making Halo over-react. Though it doesn't take much.

You do realize I said it because I specifically knew you'd get your panties in a bunch. Mission accomplished!

Poor, poor, predictable Halo.

Have some candy, and remember. It's ok to cry.

@Marz. You are at the same level as Halo is. Just different sides. No difference. You are at least as predictable as he is.
What a trap you set. really. brilliant idea. be proud. excellent accomplisment. You are a 2nd Rommel. Better, a Montgomery. What a new idea. Osama was smufu comparing to you.

how sad someone taught you to read and type. was totally unnecessary effort from his/her side.

Blab blah blah more anon bullshit.

Which part of the Axis of Euros recruited you to come do battle for them?

Look in the mirror before you try to talk about "sad".

What's sad is that some liberal doctor didn't shove a pair of forceps through your skull when your premature ass was born due to that busted rubber.

@Marz. You are at the same level as Halo is. Just different sides. No difference. You are at least as predictable as he is.

I gotta say, he's not even close.


You are a 2nd Rommel. Better, a Montgomery. What a new idea.

What the heck does this mean?

Lamasci, you're so close. I wish you would stop being so damned pessimisstic and look at the big picture.

Yes, the west (thats you and me) appeased these dictators and tyrants under the assumption all would be well (happy happy joy joy syndrome) for many many years. Yeah we used them for our own needs, that's what countries do. We all profited from it. As long as I didn't have gangs of rapists and commies running through my neighborhood I didn't care.

Then 9/11 happened. Bush changes policy because we can no longer contain the terrorists and we have no freaking clue what's going on over there because for 12 years we all set on our asses and let tyrants fuck us around.

All this time it looks like Saddam had no WMD, he purchased and manufactured the shit, USED IT (no one denies it!) but then he CLAIMS he destroyed it all. Uh ok, let's see proof. He can't show proof but all along he's also letting us assume he does still have them because he thinks we won't dare invade him if he has WMD.

We duh, big mistake on his part huh? If I think about it long enough I'll laugh my ass off. Ever play poker Lamasci? Mother of all bluffs called.

Well, you can say all you want that he didn't have WMD .. I don't know this and you don't know this, period.

But don't you get it dude? He was bluffing and he had used WMD in the past. In addition, he was the cause of TWO wars (now three). Come on, he was the single most unstable ruler on Earth... that alone gives us enough reason to go in and clean house.

Back during Clinton's years, we let international sentiment tell us what we could and could not do. Hillary just admitted that the other day. I can't help but think the world is more pissed off because we don't bow before their wishes than for what Bush did to get into Iraq. I did not vote in any election that gave Chirac fucking authority over my security. I voted for Bush, woot.. and he's doing what I helped put him in office for.. protecting my sorry ass so I can sit back and watch TV.

1, The adinistration did not really thought the result of their action twice. (They did not answer any of the questions about how they want to stabilize the region in long term)

If you're someone who thinks the region was "stable" before we invaded Afghanistan and Iraq then stop reading, you're a moron. Democracy is the only way to ensure the POSSIBILITY of stability. It's not definite, they're going to need help. Iran now has TWO democractic countries on its borders. Give it a year or so, you're going to see big changes here very soon. They've already agreed to nuclear inspections. Saudi Arabia, its monarchy already on weakened ground... you'll see changes here soon too. Now Syria needs help... that's our next big target. And last but not least ... lets give the Palastinians a country thats democractic. Get rid of the loot whore Arafat and let the Palastinian people of the region get the money. They're still going to be terrorists there after they get a country... but they will have an army... governing body over them .. which will be held responsible for their actions.

Wow, I think in the LONG TERM Bush has started something thats good. Increased security based on democractic governments, there's no other way.

They managed to turn half of their allies against themselves.

Sorry, we like having the French Germans and Russians as allies, but they're not half of all our allies. There's 64 other countries willing to help in Iraq. Come on, stop ignoring all the data that shows all the debt Saddam built up from these countries. You guys claim Halliburton is so evil yet the debts to France alone is well over 300 times the profits Halliburton well ever make from Iraq.

3, They lied at many points

I asked Halo for facts on these lies... he couldn't. I'll give you a chance.

4, They did not point out the real benefits of this war,

The truth I did not turn the Tv on for some months now.

.... just because you weren't listening doesn't mean they didn't.

This is probably the last time I appeal to someone's senses on here, so abuse me well.

akipt, Halo gave you a fact - WoMD, or the lack thereof. You fucking dumb prick.

'You do realize I said it because I specifically knew you'd get your panties in a bunch'

- Marz, you're so tiring. If you at least are going to show the entire community the sad, pathetic piece of scum you are, at least have the redneck balls to stick to it instead of shooting the "omgosh, i was joking.. yeah thats what I was doing" story.

Lamasci, drop dead. Cheers.
*puts his lightsabre away*

Eat my fucking ass with a spoon you anon bitch.

Oh no I am as anon as you are by representing a few letters on a public forum you racist piece of shit.
Go be proud of how your ancestors murdered and raped ours, go be proud of how you took our country away and go be proud of how you now are trying to take that of others.
You are a discriminating little prick that acts all Amrican is everything and ride a german care you fucktard.

Wanna go public, give me your real name, your real address and we will see what is anon and what is not.

*thinking... thinking... thinking... of more stuff to set Halo off*

So when is your next "think of the children" group therapy session?

Go be proud of how your ancestors murdered and raped ours, go be proud of how you took our country away and go be proud of how you now are trying to take that of others.

<Insert sad injun face here>

Shut the fuck up and go back to drinking your fire water.

Marz plus deaath1.. that's one shuddering combination of retarded braincells.

Bush wasn't your love child by any chance, was he?

Go be proud of how your ancestors murdered and raped ours, go be proud of how you took our country away and go be proud of how you now are trying to take that of others.

.................

---
One is not responsible for his thoughts, but for his actions.
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Um, your own sig would seem to point out the fact that there's no reason for Marz to be sad about it, as he holds no responsibility for his ancestor's actions. As a matter of fact, perhaps he can be held up as a model for Native American race relations in the modern world.

Also, if Marz' ancestors didn't come to America until, say, this century,wouldn't it be rather silly of you to blame him for what was done to native Americans in the previous 2 centuries?

Hey Noodles what tribe you from?


How's those casino's treating you? See the Potawatomi are making a mint. Grats to them. Enjoy:p

Christ, you guys are cunts.

I actually thought only our opinions differed, but you are actually A-grade assholes. It actually makes sense that your opinions on all things are the same as Marz and his lover bitch deaath1.

Nice job.

*basketball free throw motion*

Swish!

Also, if Marz' ancestors didn't come to America until, say, this century,wouldn't it be rather silly of you to blame him for what was done to native Americans in the previous 2 centuries?
It would if he wasn't so proud in saying how we have to choose his way or the Indian (aka genocide) way..

But hey mirdorr ... feel free to cover his ass if that's how you feel aswell...

** How those casino's are treating me? Stereotype people much?

And what tribe I am from?? I am Ute.

It's fun to see people sticking up for Marz who is screamin racist BS yet they go about freedom for all and such ...

He's screaming patriotic and racist BS because it pisses Halo, and now you, off. If you were intelligent enough to recognize that, it'd help your cause.