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Jedd Corpse
07-14-2008, 09:28 PM
President George W Bush backs Israeli plan for strike on Iran

As Tehran tests new missiles, America believes only a show of force can deter President Ahmadinejad

President George W Bush has told the Israeli government that he may be prepared to approve a future military strike on Iranian nuclear facilities if negotiations with Tehran break down, according to a senior Pentagon official.

Despite the opposition of his own generals and widespread scepticism that America is ready to risk the military, political and economic consequences of an airborne strike on Iran, the president has given an “amber light” to an Israeli plan to attack Iran’s main nuclear sites with long-range bombing sorties, the official told The Sunday Times.

“Amber means get on with your preparations, stand by for immediate attack and tell us when you’re ready,” the official said. But the Israelis have also been told that they can expect no help from American forces and will not be able to use US military bases in Iraq for logistical support.

Nor is it certain that Bush’s amber light would ever turn to green without irrefutable evidence of lethal Iranian hostility. Tehran’s test launches of medium-range ballistic missiles last week were seen in Washington as provocative and poorly judged, but both the Pentagon and the CIA concluded that they did not represent an immediate threat of attack against Israeli or US targets.

“It’s really all down to the Israelis,” the Pentagon official added. “This administration will not attack Iran. This has already been decided. But the president is really preoccupied with the nuclear threat against Israel and I know he doesn’t believe that anything but force will deter Iran.”

The official added that Israel had not so far presented Bush with a convincing military proposal. “If there is no solid plan, the amber will never turn to green,” he said.

There was also resistance inside the Pentagon from officers concerned about Iranian retaliation. “The uniform people are opposed to the attack plans, mainly because they think it will endanger our soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan,” the source said.

Complicating the calculations in both Washington and Tel Aviv is the prospect of an incoming Democratic president who has already made it clear that he prefers negotiation to the use of force.

Senator Barack Obama’s previous opposition to the war in Iraq, and his apparent doubts about the urgency of the Iranian threat, have intensified pressure on the Israeli hawks to act before November’s US presidential election. “If I were an Israeli I wouldn’t wait,” the Pentagon official added.

The latest round of regional tension was sparked by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, which fired nine long and medium-range missiles in war game manoeuvres in the Gulf last Wednesday.

Iran’s state-run media reported that one of them was a modified Shahab-3 ballistic missile, which has a claimed range of 1,250 miles and could theoretically deliver a one-ton nuclear warhead over Israeli cities. Tel Aviv is about 650 miles from western Iran. General Hossein Salami, a senior Revolutionary Guard commander, boasted that “our hands are always on the trigger and our missiles are ready for launch”.

Condoleezza Rice, the US secretary of state, said she saw the launches as “evidence that the missile threat is not an imaginary one”, although the impact of the Iranian stunt was diminished on Thursday when it became clear that a photograph purporting to show the missiles being launched had been faked.

The one thing that all sides agree on is that any strike by either Iran or Israel would trigger a catastrophic round of retaliation that would rock global oil markets, send the price of petrol soaring and wreck the progress of the US military effort in Iraq.

Abdalla Salem El-Badri, secretary-general of Opec, the oil producers’ consortium, said last week that a military conflict involving Iran would see an “unlimited” rise in prices because any loss of Iranian production — or constriction of shipments through the Strait of Hormuz — could not be replaced. Iran is Opec’s second-largest producer after Saudi Arabia.

Equally worrying for Bush would be the impact on the US mission in Iraq, which after years of turmoil has seen gains from the military “surge” of the past few months, and on American operations in the wider region. A senior Iranian official said yesterday that Iran would destroy Israel and 32 American military bases in the Middle East in response to any attack.

Yet US officials acknowledge that no American president can afford to remain idle if Israel is threatened. How genuine the Iranian threat is was the subject of intense debate last week, with some analysts arguing that Iran might have a useable nuclear weapon by next spring and others convinced that President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is engaged in a dangerous game of bluffing — mainly to impress a domestic Iranian audience that is struggling with economic setbacks and beginning to question his leadership.

Among the sceptics is Kenneth Katzman, a former CIA analyst and author of a book on the Revolutionary Guard. “I don’t subscribe to the view that Iran is in a position to inflict devastating damage on anyone,” said Katzman, who is best known for warning shortly before 9/11 that terrorists were planning to attack America.

“The Revolutionary Guards have always underperformed militarily,” he said. “Their equipment is quite inaccurate if not outright inoperable. Those missile launches were more like putting up a ‘beware of the dog’ sign. They want everyone to think that if you mess with them, you will get bitten.”

A former adviser to Rice noted that Ahmadinejad’s confrontational attitude had earned him powerful enemies among Iran’s religious leadership. Professor Shai Feldman, director of Middle East studies at Brandeis University, said the Iranian government was getting “clobbered” because of global economic strains. “His [Ahmadinejad's] failed policies have made Iran more vulnerable to sanctions and people close to the mullahs have decided he’s a liability,” he said.

In Israel, Ehud Olmert, the prime minister, has his own domestic problems with a corruption scandal that threatens to unseat him and the media have been rife with speculation that he might order an attack on Iran to distract attention from his difficulties. According to one of his closest friends, Olmert recently warned him that “in three months’ time it will be a different Middle East”.

Yet even the most hawkish officials acknowledge that Israel would face what would arguably be the most challenging military mission of its 60-year existence.

“No one here is talking about more than delaying the [nuclear] programme,” said the Pentagon source. He added that Israel would need to set back the Iranians by at least five years for an attack to be considered a success.

Even that may be beyond Israel’s competence if it has to act alone. Obvious targets would include Iran’s Isfahan plant, where uranium ore is converted into gas, the Natanz complex where this gas is used to enrich uranium in centrifuges and the plutonium-producing Arak heavy water plant. But Iran is known to have scattered other elements of its nuclear programme in underground facilities around the country. Neither US nor Israeli intelligence is certain that it knows where everything is.

“Maybe the Israelis could start off the attack and have us finish it off,” Katzman added. “And maybe that has been their intention all along. But in terms of the long-term military campaign that would be needed to permanently suppress Iran’s nuclear programme, only the US is perceived as having that capability right now.”


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article4322508.ece

Haloface
07-15-2008, 03:51 AM
Yay, blow them all to hell!

It'd be worth it just to see the look on Jedd's face.

Haloface
07-15-2008, 04:22 AM
Ok, how can I put this another way...

...Yay for blowing them up! <----political opinion, nothing to do with seeing the reaction on Jedd's face. At all.

Ibudin
07-15-2008, 08:40 AM
Iran iran Iran Iran this and Iran that........who cares. We are not going to attack Iran.

velvetsilence
07-15-2008, 09:58 AM
IDK, I once thought our leaders are not that stupid but.........

“The Revolutionary Guards have always underperformed militarily,” he said. “Their equipment is quite inaccurate if not outright inoperable

Wanna keep beating that horse some more? Like i said before keep an eye out for U.S. naval assets vacating the Gulf before you get your turban all wound up.

Jedd Corpse
07-15-2008, 10:12 AM
IDK, I once thought our leaders are not that stupid but.........



Wanna keep beating that horse some more? Like i said before keep an eye out for U.S. naval assets vacating the Gulf before you get your turban all wound up.

I am confused about how your quote applies to your post, but in response, our naval assets have already begun vacating the gulf.

Fandros
07-15-2008, 10:27 AM
Apparently you can sprout anti US Rhetoric all day but if you get weary of it and start calling Jedd on it San will delete your posts.

Well done, keep this board flying Free...to the left.

I'm one of many sick of Jedd's weekly bullshit US r bad and Iran r good posts.

Keep it in the middle or time to move on I say.

Sanchek
07-15-2008, 10:32 AM
There. They're both moved.

Tell Jedd what a poppy head you think he is. I hope you can make it good enough to be worth shitting all over both threads.

(and next time you feel the need to ruin a thread with the predictably unoriginal Jedd hate, come and post it here on one of these already ruined threads)

Haloface
07-15-2008, 10:33 AM
Well I always thought I was the best judge in this instance. I of course spout liberal views all the time - and anti-American opinions.
So I do not think I'm biased when I say that Jedd's constant whining about Iran is getting on everyone's tits.

I'm all for anti-US stuff but even I can see the Iranians have it coming. Blow them to kingdom-cum.

Jedd Corpse
07-15-2008, 10:40 AM
Apparently you can sprout anti US Rhetoric all day but if you get weary of it and start calling Jedd on it San will delete your posts.

Well done, keep this board flying Free...to the left.

I'm one of many sick of Jedd's weekly bullshit US r bad and Iran r good posts.

Keep it in the middle or time to move on I say.

Where the fuck did I post a US r bad, Iran r good post?

You are truly losing it

Haloface
07-15-2008, 10:44 AM
Every fucking day you dick-fuck.

Jedd Corpse
07-15-2008, 10:46 AM
Every fucking day you dick-fuck.

Find one tooth-decay!

Haloface
07-15-2008, 11:08 AM
For every rotten tooth I have, you've got 40 pounds of rippling fat.

*points* Fat titties.

Sanchek
07-15-2008, 11:27 AM
That's it?

Haloface
07-15-2008, 11:30 AM
What do you mean that's it? 40 pound titties are no joke.

Sanchek
07-15-2008, 11:38 AM
Hmm, good point.

giena
07-15-2008, 11:38 AM
Size Double F?

Jedd Corpse
07-15-2008, 05:41 PM
So basically this dumb fucking Moron has nothing to stand on when he accuses me of Iran r good USA r bad posts every day.

Fuck off Halo, go get caught in Iranian waters like the rest of your idiotic navy!

Bylimet Spiritwalker
07-15-2008, 06:43 PM
Western standards?

It is because of western support for sadaam that those kids even needed to fight... Pfft standards my ass. we are just as fucked up if not worse then everybody else and then some of us dare to call other people disgusting for letting their children defend their lives and land. You know what's disgusting? That anyone actually thinks western standards are worth a shit. Everyday new info is released about so called western standards, like the green light for south Korea to kill prisoners by the hundred thousands.

There is no moral superiority to speak from anymore, and what there was, has always been an illusion. So keep crying about the evil scary baby killers, while you continue to be the uncaring majority who wish to kill their children once more and blame it on them.
__________________


Would this qualify, jedd? Just as one small recent example.

Fandros
07-16-2008, 01:02 AM
Quick question, wasn't it over a month ago when there was an impending attack on Iran and Jedd just knew it was true.

Fucking useless mouthpiece of the Iranian PM at his best /nods.

Jedd Corpse
07-16-2008, 01:12 AM
Uh? It is escalating... The news is pointing to it. I am as much a mouthpiece of the Iranian PM as you are one for Dubya.

Fandros
07-16-2008, 01:16 AM
Junior, you implied imminent ( or actually said so ) and as usual your so called source was bunk.

Now you claim the US navy is fleeing your waters /chuckle

Man we need to employ you at the Pentagon, as a Kitchen redesign guy you are superbly qualified and aware of military movements (note to Homeland security GET HIM!) ;P

Iran NEEDS, absolutely only way for them to put a foot forward kinda needs, us to attack them.

Atm they are playing a losing hand, with the UN and EU absolutely on top of Iran's bullshit.

The US won't attack, they'll let the UN and EU play their hands and handle Iran perfectly. I foresee Iran trying to force Israel and the US's hand to try and create a situation where the world might see them as the simpering victims.

Sixee
07-16-2008, 09:34 AM
I predict a nuclear incident, where Iran tries to say Israel or the U.S. used a nuclear warhead on them. When the smoke clears, it will be found Iran either accidentally or purposefully detonated a nuclear bomb they were either trying to build to be one of the "big boys", or for just that purpose.

Before you think this is farfetched, remember, this is a culture that sends 14 year old 'volunteers' off to clear minefields for soldiers....

velvetsilence
07-16-2008, 09:40 AM
Give it up Fandros he truly is clueless. as I tried point out to him in the Irans hairy balls thread. we are not fleeing the gulf out of fear of Iran we are re-positioning in case we have to knock thier dicks in the dirt. we dont need ground forces to devastate them we can do it with naval power alone and they know that. he fails to realize that we can drop a missle in downtown Terhan from a 1000 miles out in the Indian.

Only thing he has right is the fact that CSG9(Lincolns group) was moved east off the Pakastani coast. pretty good hunch though that the gulf and much of Iran is still within thier operational range.
All it takes is an AWACS, one EA6B squadron and a couple F/A-18 squadrons and I sure as hell would'nt want to be manning an Iranian missle battery.

Jedd Corpse
07-16-2008, 10:06 AM
velvet you made the mistake of thinkingthat I believed we feared Iran andthat is why we left the gulf. I NEVER said that, and thank you for joining the club of peole who put words in my mouth.

The reason I posted the news that our last carrier left the gulf and why I think it is significant is for two reasons.

1. Israel may launch an attack and with our ships out of the gulf we can shrug and say "it wasn't us! We werent involved."

2. In case Israel attacks our ships would not be stuck in the gulf BEFORE Irans capability to close the straight is taken out. This would put our ships at risk.

By all means, continue repeating a false representation of what I posted, fuck its all I get around here.

Grift3r
07-16-2008, 10:39 AM
You are correct Jedd, you never actually come out and said it. You do however, at every chance it seems, imply the reasons WHY we should be afraid.

The entire straight of Hormuz and much of the Persian gulf is within Iran's artillery range, and is a death trap.

Do you honestly think, Iran will be as easy as your research has shown?

Thats what Sadaam thought... and we all saw what happened when he attacked a battered, leaderless, general less country named Iran. And you heard his dieing words right?

You should never underestimate your enemy!

The power in the Iranian defense however lies with surprise, numbers, and tactics. We will lose a ship in the gulf or straight of hormuz if we go to war with Iran. At least one, and it will be a major blow to our morale. Can they defeat our navy? Probably not, but do not forget the millenium wargames in which an entire fleet of our ships were destroyed by speed boats and midget subs.

And lastly, regardless of Iran's lacking in the tank catagory, it was not tanks that Hezbollah used to route Israel.. It was tank killing RPG's. Cheap, effective, and able to destroy multi million dollar hardware.

The list goes on.

Everything you say is through the lens of "Iran R Gud, USA R bad". Each post of yours reeks of it. What is sad, is that much of what you say really isn't that far off, just the comment or two here and there that proves you lack complete perspective on that which you are posting.

Jedd Corpse
07-16-2008, 11:18 AM
You are correct Jedd, you never actually come out and said it. You do however, at every chance it seems, imply the reasons WHY we should be afraid.









The list goes on.

Everything you say is through the lens of "Iran R Gud, USA R bad". Each post of yours reeks of it. What is sad, is that much of what you say really isn't that far off, just the comment or two here and there that proves you lack complete perspective on that which you are posting.

I don't see how that falls under "Iran R good, USA R Bad"

It is an opinion on what will happen if we go to war.

Fandros
07-16-2008, 06:00 PM
Here's to hope......

http://uk.reuters.com/article/oilRpt/idUKN1629433920080716

Talks are talks, it's the first time in what 30 years?

Bylimet Spiritwalker
07-16-2008, 06:49 PM
One of the alternatives jedd seems unable to grasp is that the naval groups may have been moved out of the Gulf "on maneuvers" so that they are not in a position to give aid to Israel, should they want to strike.

The military folks seem to be in agreement that Israel cannot strike Iran without our support, so without those ships available, I am unsure what other support is handy.

Bylimet Spiritwalker
07-16-2008, 06:54 PM
Here's to hope......

http://uk.reuters.com/article/oilRpt/idUKN1629433920080716

Talks are talks, it's the first time in what 30 years?


Also, Secretary of Defense Gates is stepping up and making some bold comments regarding the need for diplomatic efforts to be the first step, and not using the military to try to do everything.

http://www.twincities.com/ci_9892188?IADID

velvetsilence
07-17-2008, 02:01 AM
thank you for joining the club of people who put words in my mouth

Gimme a break, it's a big club and i don't wanna feel left out.:(

Do you honestly think, Iran will be as easy as your research has shown?

Yes! yes I do.

The entire straight of Hormuz and much of the Persian gulf is within Iran's artillery range, and is a death trap.

Yes it is, but not for our boys.

Thats what Sadaam thought

I remember Sadaams "line of death in the sand" how did that work out? turned out to be the best training excercise/turkeyshoot we ever had.

giena
07-17-2008, 12:09 PM
I have to admit, I like that link about Gate's speech Byl. I happen to agree with what he said, as much of a support of our military I am, even I am concerned about how quickly we use force.

Doesn't mean I'm voting Democratic though :)

Sixee
07-17-2008, 12:20 PM
Teddy Roosevelt is accredited with they saying "Speak softly, but carry a big stick."

Yosemite Sam is accredited with the saying "I speak LOUD, and I carry a BIGGER STICK! And I use it too!"

Looks like our policy on the use of military force is taking its cue from the Loony Toons...