So a little over one year ago this guy comes to us and has us build a website for the company he is purchasing. We build the site and he needs ongoing work IE: Site Maintenance. We offer pre-paid site maintenance at a discount so that is what he buys.

We do a few hours worth of work on the site and one day he sends an email stating that his deal with the company he was buying fell through because they didn't disclose taxes they owed to him. So move ahead one year and he calls and says, and I quote, "I want my money back from your company" I explain to him that he needs to go back to the company he was buying and he then says to me that he paid the bill with his personal credit card and that means that I am liable for it...need I say I actually laughed at him.

Anyhow I tried to explain to him that he needs to go back to the company he was going to buy and how he payed for it is not my problem as with most small businesses you sometimes pay for things with personal funds and the business reimburses you.

Am I missing something here?

If it hadn't been the entire year, I could see wanting to cancel and get a pro-rated amount back. Seeing as how he got what he paid for though, I can't imagine what twisted logic he's using to expect anything back from you.

Sounds like one of those types that got a lot of E for Efforts and pats on the back from mommy (or not enough of those).

Oh you gotta love some of the jokers you get to work with sometimes. Take him off the Christmas card list :)My companies' website is on the web and we get calls every now and again "hey you guys make movies? I wanna make a movie!" Gotta treat em like a normal client because who the hell knows if they're the next Spielberg or not - I just take cash up front for all new clients :)

So one guy has me shoot and edit a music video for the band he's managing. Kinda big budget stuff, we're shooting on a camera that shoots right to P2 cards instead of a tape stock. I edit it all up for him and put all his footage plus the finished videos all on a hard drive for him and burn him 2 blu-ray dvds (one for him, one to get copied) and send him on his way. Now we fast forward a year and I get a phone call from him asking for me to make him more dvds since he's "used" them all. I try and explain that all the footage and files are on his hard drive and he has to bring it in for me to do that, and he doesn't know where the hard drive is. And he can't understand why it'll cost the exact same amount as before to re-shoot the whole thing and re-edit the whole thing and re-master the whole thing...

If it hadn't been the entire year, I could see wanting to cancel and get a pro-rated amount back. Seeing as how he got what he paid for though, I can't imagine what twisted logic he's using to expect anything back from you.

Sounds like one of those types that got a lot of E for Efforts and pats on the back from mommy (or not enough of those).


LOL...get this logic...He says: "I paid for it with a personal credit card not a business card" I told him to reimburse himself from the company. Funny thing is, I don't know if I was clear, he WAS going to buy the company he had us build the website for and then afterwards he decided not to buy it so he wants his money back from me.

God knows we've been to court enough (well my father, but me handling the case) to get money owed out of bastard clients (and won, every time). Now I've made him take all money upfront, and have a good invoice with a shitload of clauses and small print in. Not had a problem since, but people sure have tried.

This is why I NEVER do any web work without a signed contract (not saying you didn't have a contract).

I always include payment installments on my contracts as well. I usually ask for about 40% up front, 50% after the site goes live and then 10% after the 30 day burn in period (fix bugs, etc).

It would be extremely difficult for a judge to rule against a contract that was signed, the product delivered, fully paid for and a 30 day period of cool down.

I would of laughed at the joker too Rover.

Sounds like he is scrambling to extract as much as possible from his defunct investment.


Cheers,

I'm with Lokase, hopefully you had a contract. But a year later seems like he's desperate. Hopefully it works out for you.

You know, it's funny. Even though people suck sometimes, I still do most work with no contract (other than an NDA if they want one) and no money up front.

We've built well over 300 sites without a written contract, basically on a handshake. We do an SOW (Statement of Work) if they want it in writing and oddly enough about 90% of people pay the full amount up front.


The guys whole reasoning is retarded. He made a business deal to buy a company and his deal fell through. He tried to say that because he paid for the work on his personal credit card that it is not part of the business, I told him to have the business reimburse him. Now this is the best part...he can't go to the business to reimburse him because the guy who owned it died...

I guess for smaller businesses it's a different story. We require and are required to have contracts for everything we do or have done and we still get burned by some of the vendors. I'm glad I don't mess with contracts all day, a good friend here is our financial specialist for IT and she has horror stories. We're usually paying out and not receiving so our issues revolve around not getting what we're owed.

It surprises me you guys don't work with contracts. How do you protect yourselves against asshats like this?

In this guys case it's not like he would win in court. What we do is document everything, if someone wants something as small a word changed on a site we tell them to email what they want done as we won't do anything unless it's in writing.

Also, as I said quite a few people pay us everything up front so what I have always found amazing was how much they trusted us to do the job.

I guess the problem could be that when someone pays us we do the job, it's really second nature for us, so when someone says they will do something I just trust that they will do what they say like we do. I've really had very few issues with people in business I would say that somewhere in the 1/2 to 1% might have a dispute and out of those 80% are settled amicably.

It surprises me you guys don't work with contracts. How do you protect yourselves against asshats like this?

If you select your clients wisely, do top notch work, and truly bring value and satisfy them, they'll always pay what you ask and pay it on time. If you pick a bad client or one who can't afford to pay, they won't pay anyway.

Unless you're talking large sums of money, a contract is pointless anyway. You spend more time and money trying to fight and litigate than it's really worth.

It's easy to throw a lot of good time/money after the bad.

Admitedly I have no experience with small business except what Leah tells me of her own. My stuff is all $mil+ projects and maintenance stuff. I hear what you guys are saying though it just surprises me one can be so trusting in business.

One question though, how do you know a good client when you first meet them? Do you do a small project for them first or dive right in without having established a business relationship?

Admitedly I have no experience with small business except what Leah tells me of her own. My stuff is all $mil+ projects and maintenance stuff. I hear what you guys are saying though it just surprises me one can be so trusting in business.

One question though, how do you know a good client when you first meet them? Do you do a small project for them first or dive right in without having established a business relationship?


With me it's just a gut feeling. What I see with the economy in downturn are people who start to become desperate for money and they do "funny" things that in normal times they would not have done let alone even thought of doing.

One thing that I know and is tried and true is that if within the first 5 minutes of conversation, with a potential client, the person states that they are honest because they are christian it usually means I'm about to become a target.

When someone approaches me for a business transaction, I listen to what they are proposing, and then have them patted down for a wire, and.....wait, never mind....scratch that.

I'd second the gut feeling. You can't run a business without that, regardless.

I guess in my case, I have the added benefit of being well known in my field. All my work comes to me through that channel, so they know it would be stupid to screw me over. They'd be risking me writing about it and putting it in front of millions of eyeballs a year; specifically those that they'd need to work with in the future.