Need some advice. First off.

AMD vs pentium? I was looking at AMD 3400 (its what is in my price range according to the company I am shopping with, pentium counterpart prolly would be 3.4 or 3.6 gigz is my guess).

Also what is 939 pin for AMD?

Ram company, heard corsair, kingston, and geil are best. What you guys think?

Harddrive, They have a sweet deal on a 250 gig hd. Though was wondering if it is worth paying the extra little bit for ata-133 vs ata-100 and 8mb cache vs 2mb cache? Also what companies are good and which are bad? I think my choices are between maxtor and western digital.

I know fairly nothing about mother boards, but here are the choices they "recommend"

Asus K8V-SE Deluxe Via-K8T800
Asus K8N nForce3-250

So if anyone has any input, let me know.

Now I am on vid cards, I really do not want to spend 300+ for a card or something stupid like that.

Some of the cards in my range they offer are:

geforce fx5500 256mb
geforce 6600 256mb
geforce 6600-gt 128mb
geforce 6200 256mb
radeon 9600 pro 256mb
radeon 9600 xt 256mb


So anyways, thanks in advance for the help. Am hoping I can keep price under 1200 bucks, and judging by this site that won't be to hard for a very good comp since their prices are much cheaper than other big companies (it is a small company who I have bought from in past flawlessly), and are not much more expensive than prices off newegg.

Id say if you can get the geforce 6800

Yah but they are like 300-400 bucks =\

Don't buy a 754 pin AMD, they are an older processor. Get a 939 pin.

All those RAM companies are good. The key you are looking for is "Lifetime warranty." There is only like 3 RAM chip manufacturers. All these guys do is solder them to the board.

You won't see a difference between ATA100 and 133. You will notice a difference in 8mb buffer than a 2mb one. But don't even bother with an ATA drive. Get a SATA drive. Only like 3 dollars more.

Don't get those motherboards, they are dated. Get a Nforce 4 board. Currently the best chipset for AMD. Comes in many flavors and prices.

For gaming. Whether it's EQ, EQ2, or another newer game, that selection sucks. Never skimp on the vid card. Best bang for the buck is 6800GT at the moment. Or two 6600GT's in SLI if you have a SLI motherboard.

Go AMD all the way.

Just get a Dell.... /flame suit on


I got a 8400 series 3.2P4 with a gig of ram and a 6800 for just at 1k... Fast as hell... Runs EQ2 with out blinking and HL2 and Doom3 don't even touch it...

Thanks for all the help so far, couple of questions though:

What is the difference between amd 754 pin and amd 939 pin?

S-ATA vs ATA HD?

Do I still go for an Asus motherboard (just nforce 4 one)?

What is SLI?

Thanks.

939-pin AMD CPUs are the latest pin standard for the newer and better A64s. They run cooler and are just more efficient.

Serial ATA uses a smaller plug that is hot-swappable and are theoretically faster than ATA drives. Most newer boards have SATA and ATA plugs.

Yes go ASUS.

SLI means you can use 2 PCI-Express graphics cards to work together and provide a lot of GPU horsepower; this is designed to replace the old solo-AGP card standard.

Have you ever built before? Since you're asking these questions you may run into a fair share of problems later on.

754 = old, it's only going to be a laptop type processor.
939 = new and current chip design, 90nm process, dual channel memory controller, better upgradeability.

SATA is a little bit faster than ATA. Uses a lot smaller cable. Current technology.

SLI is a option on certain Nforce4 motherboards that allows two PCI-E video cards at the same time. So you get almost a 50% increase in vid card power but of course you have a 200% increase in vid card price since you have to have two of the exact same vid cards for it to work.

You could get Asus. They are a good company. Personally they piss me off lol, but they have a good product. I prefer Abit or DFI.

EDIT: doh 4 minutes too late.

Never built, that is why I am buying from a site. So are SLI motherboards good then in general with 939 pin? And is it worth getting two like geforce 6600-GTs or just getting 1 6800?

Okay, I'm confused then. If you've never built and are buying from a site, 90% of the questions you are asking arent really even going to be an option for you. I'm not trying to knock ya, honest, but if you go with a Dell or HP or whatever, you're not going to be able to specify what make of RAM, cache sizes and even drive make you want.

Or do you mean you're buying all the pieces from say, Newegg.com, and assembling them yourself?

Maybe I am not buying a dell or HP, and maybe I am buying from site with all these options? Which I am.

And maybe you are a dink who is in over his head?

Whichever, was just trying to understand more clearly.

And maybe you are a dink who is in over his head?

/snicker

SATA is a little bit faster than ATA.Please stop saying that. The interface is faster and cleaner, but for all intents and purposes the drives aren't.

Now, you could get a newer, nicer drive that supports NCQ, and that *might* perform faster for you, but the whole SATA is faster than PATA thing has to stop.

So Palimax, are SLI motherboards good then in general with 939 pin? And is it worth getting two like geforce 6600-GTs or just getting 1 6800? And why does 6600 256mb cost same as 6600 gt 128mb? thx

939 v. 745 and SLI v. non-SLI are two seperate things.

939 motherboards are the newer process, can potentially take more memory, and all at full speed (although some are still going to run the second pair slower), they can also take X2 chips should you later upgrade to dual-core. If you've decided on the Athlon platform, get a 939 form factor motherboard (newer, upgradable) and get yourself a 90nm processor (cooler [and therefore quieter], more overclockable if you go that route).

For an motherboard and processor alone, try Monarch:
http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=M&Product_Code=80152&Category_Code=AMDC

You'll have to decide where along the price/performance curve you want to pay.

So if I get a 939 should I go with the nforce 4 and get 2x like 125 dollar vid cards or get like 1 6800 Gt/ultra.

And anyone know why the 660gt 128mb and the 6600 normal 256mb are same price-ish? Thanks.

I honestly can't make an informed recommendation on where the price-performance "win" is with a PCI-E video solution. I stayed with my AGP setup on my last build so I could stay silent. You'll have to hope someone else chimes in with some real-world history.

Dude save your self the questions. Since you have obviously no idea what you're even asking get a Dell or HP or Gateway or something... Jesus..

Cause I don't feel like a 50% namebrand markup or a shitty computer? I have gone that route in the past, ended up overpaying for a name in which I thought would then have very good service and a well built comp. Got lots of problems, 1 hour phone calls with outsourced indian techs, and in the end, a lot of cash flushed down the toilet.

50% mark up? HEHEHEHEE.... Dell 9100 Series. 3kGhz for 959$ Build one then...LOL I have had Dells for nigh on 3 years now and not one call to anyone with a modicum of comp knowledge or where to ask for it.... NO a brand wars thing but I find it hard to believe you can build one for cheaper considering the questions you are asking...

I would be buying from a lesser named site that offers much larger range of options...

Build this:

-AMD 939 Winchester Core. Pick a speed you can afford. Get the retail set with the CPU cooler. It has a warranty of 3 years. Also get some Artic Sliver 5 to go between the chip and heatsink. 3200 and 3500 64 winnie chips are a winner. If you win the lotto ypu can pop a FX 55 in the same board!

-Asus Motherboard with PCI-e and a SATA controller that is seperate from the board chipset such as a Promice controller or the popular Silicon Image SiL 3112. NForce is a good bet. Asus boards tend to work with everything as long as its good quality. Asus boards hate cheap RAM. If you want SLI, you can't go wrong with a A8N SLI Deluxe. Its spendy but its all there.

MSI also makes a decent board IF you pay heed to what power supply and RAM you use.

-BFG 6800GT. Its overclocked out of the box, is single slot and has a lifetime warranty. Get one PCI-e model and get another one 6 months later for SLI. They will be pretty cheap and offer a good upgrade for the buck.

-Corsair RAM. One TWINX1024-3200XL set will keep you happy. Life time warranty. Very fast timings. Also, it doesn't have all the lights and
bells and whistles. It has a heat spreader and thats it which keeps its height profile down. This matters if you want to put a bigger heatsink/fan combo on such as a Thermalright 120 or something like that. Either way GET GOOD RAM.

-Audigy 2 Zx. Its not the top of the line anymore but for what you spend compared to what the next step up delivers, its still the best. Its THX and Dolby etc etc certified. Some come with an I/O panel that mounts in a case bay. Unless you do alot of audio editting/tinkering, forego that. Its a waste unless you REALLY need a remote control for you computer. Logitech makes decent speakers for this. 5.1 and up surround.

- Get a Raptor 74 for bootup and games that move alot of data like EQ and an 8MB cache WD 250-300 gig SATA for mass storage and less demanding tasks such as MS Office or whatever. You can add another Raptor later for a speedy Raid 0. Or , you can get 2 of the 250 gigs and put them in Raid 0 right off. In spite of what Palimax says, SATA does offer alot more throughput. Everything will load up faster. Raid 0 makes it even faster yet.

-Optical. /shrug. You can get away with just a DVD-ROM/CDR-CDRW combo drive if you don't need the 4.7 gig backup size or you have no plans to burn dvd movies. Otherwise, get that AND a DVD-DL burner. SATA version cost more, but tend to be a bit faster. Cache sizes count here too. 8MB or more is good. Plextor makes a good DVD burner for SATA. NEC makes a decent one for IDE.

-Case. Lian Li is good. Kinda expensive but they cool well and the PLUS models with the 120mm fans move alot of air and make not much noise. They also don't have any stupid plastic alien or robot heads on them. Some have a clear side panel, if you want to spend the extra money. All the screws are thumbscrews and the motherboard tray slides out with the backside of the case along with the rear fan.

-Mouse and Keyboard. Whatever works best for you. Just keep in mind that some USB models won't work until after you install Windows XP.

-Speaking of Windows XP....get a legit version of XP Pro version with SP2. There is also a 64 bit version, but its not fully supported yet by drivers.

Put all that together and you should have an awesome computer for about 2400 dollars or less that leaves losts of room to grow. Newegg.com is a good online vendor. They are fast on delivery and have good prices.

Now if that seems to be too much to comprehend, then buy a Dell I guess.

In spite of what Palimax says, SATA does offer alot more throughput.They're the same drives with different interfaces. The INTERFACE is much faster, but the drives aren't. A 300 gig Seagate PATA is exactly as fast as a 300 gig Seagate SATA. Neither run nearly as fast as the interface.

The only case of a drive getting better performance is where the motherboard (controller, chipset) and the drive both support NCQ - which presumably an nForce board gets out of the Raptor -- which is exactly why I have one SATA Raptor, and one data drive hanging off PATA. Making the data drive be SATA won't make it ANY faster. None at all.

Also, I've heard the "get good RAM" debate a hundred times. Get yourself the cheapest name brand RAM you can find. Even NewEgg's "cheap" Patriot or PQI brands are MORE than fine. You don't need expensive RAM. You never have.

The best PCI-e video card out atm is the Nvidia 7800 GTX which in some instances is as fast as 2 6800 ultras in SLI mode. But its extremely expensive atm (600$ plus) which puts it out of reach of most normal computer users.
A good forum that can help you decide what is best for your buck or to get a question hopefully answered is the www.hardforum.com (http://www.hardforum.com/) website..They have a lot of info on almost anything you can imagine for your computer...
The better lower timed ram is more for users who overclock their computer to get the best performance from what i gather. For general everyday use most cheaper ram is pretty good.

I would be buying from a lesser named site that offers much larger range of options...

Please list the site.

ibuypower.com is the one I am looking at ATM. I was looking at widowpc, but their prices are a lot higher.

The only case of a drive getting better performance is where the motherboard (controller, chipset) and the drive both support NCQ - which presumably an nForce board gets out of the Raptor -- which is exactly why I have one SATA Raptor, and one data drive hanging off PATA. Making the data drive be SATA won't make it ANY faster. None at all.

You are forgetting about running multiple drives. You won't have a bottleneck if writing/reading to multiple drives at once with SATA like you would with multiple PATA drives on the same channel. Plus SATA is starting to be cheaper.

My next build is going to have a Raptor for OS/Programs and 2 big HD fora mirrored raid. I'd be fucked running all that on mobo PATA channels and PCI bus sucks.

Monarch computers has a good configuration setup for a range of budgets...

Cool what is site link? and you heard of that company at all xanif? the one I linked?

Nm I got off my ass and googled it, but that other site you linked, the forums, very informative.

I just checked out your link. A couple of things I want to point out to you. They use cheap shitty cases and shitty power supplies. Also those comps don't come with monitors unlike how they display it.

I think you might want to save up some more money. On that site I did:
amd 3500 939 pin
some shitty case
enermax powersupply (the only good one they have)
1gb of budget ram
asus SLI mobo
XP Pro 64
6600GT PCI-E
80gb maxtor SATA
NEC 3520A DVD-R
17" Viewsonic LCD 8ms
MS keyboard and mouse

Came out to be $1595 including shipping to Illinois. And you still would need another 6600 GT card so tack on $170.

EDIT: Spelling

And they use a backwards swastika for a company logo. Computer nazis, run!

Don't need a monitor, I still have my 19inch LCD. Shipping is free I think and 5% off discount they have.

Which model you choose?

Also case I was looking at was the radimax midtower 868 scorpio. Comes with about 4-5 fans and doesn't look to bad in black (friend has one). Plus it is pretty cheap.

The one I was dicking with was this:
AMD 3500 939 pin
enermax power supply
Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe nForce4-SLI Chipset (heard its super good on those hardware forums)
2048 MB [1024MB X2] DDR-400 PC3200
6800GT 256mb (friend recommended it as super good, if you have any suggestions though go for it)
[S-ATA] Western Digital 160 GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache Hard Drive
Sony DWD-26A Dual Format/Double Layer 16X DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW Drive

And was like 1500ish. Also if I go with that set up will I be able to buy a 2nd 6800gt a few months (or more) from now and put it in as a dual setup since it is nforce SLI?

Working on monarch now.

My next build is going to have a Raptor for OS/Programs and 2 big HD fora mirrored raid. I'd be fucked running all that on mobo PATA channels and PCI bus sucks.
*sigh*

Ok, lets actual use facts.

http://www.storagereview.com/php/benchmark/compare_rtg_2001.php?typeID=10&testbedID=3&osID=4&raidconfigID=1&numDrives=1&devID_0=251&devID_1=238&devCnt=2

The link above is to Storage Review's results of a PATA and SATA versions of a Maxtor Maxline Plus II 250 gigabyte drive. Those drives are, for all intents and purposes, identical in benchmarks, with the PATA winning some, and the SATA winning some. They are within the margin of error. In a number of cases, they review a drive, and they show HUGE gaps between samples. Take it from me, the hardware in those two drives are IDENTICAL except for the little connector on the back.

Ok, so, you're running two drives in RAID-0, presumably because you hate your data, and you want it to have double the chance to fail. Striped array without fault tolerance. Go go speed! Those drives there have a MAXIMUM sequential read rate at the most dense portion of the platter of 60 megs a second, and a MAXUMUM sequential read rate at the least dense portion of the platter of 30 megs a second. So, even under lab conditions, you can't generate enough data on a sequential read from both drives at the absolute center of the spindle to break the interface limit of PATA. And once you've moved a single cylinder outward, you're only getting less and less data throughput.

Since the Raptor is going to be SATA to support NCQ, tell me, how exactly will you be "fucked," since the PATA interface supports more than the maximum bandwidth of your drives, even in the most unlikely of data reads. So, again, since the PATA interface is faster than even the fastest of drives, even mirrored, and since the actual drive portion of a SATA drive is exactly the same as a PATA drive, unless the drive supports NCQ (or I guess TCQ), It. Is. Not. Any. Faster.

All that said, there still isn't any reason to not have SATA drives. They require less air-flow constricting cabling, they're on a nicer interface, and they pretty much cost the same. ...but lacking TCQ/NCQ, they're not any goddamned faster, and people keep repeating it and it's pure ignorance.

Palimax has some points. I don't agree 100 % with him. The reason I suggested though to get good RAM is that cheapo RAM doesn't always work well with all motherboards. Asus is picky just to mention. Stay away from the generic shit. The RAM I suggested to you is very fast and has the lifetime warranty. Considering how often RAM goes bad, its good to have something like that and the fact that it works well with most motherboards is good too. If you want to go with value stuff, get Corsair Valueselect. Its cheaper, a little slower and still has a warranty. Kingston is decent for the money too but I have no idea on warranty. If its your first computer you have ever built, spend a little more and get something you don't have to worry about.


As for SATA, its the new standard. The reduced mess from large ribbons or cables alone makes it worth it. The Raptor and some other brands of support NCQ. When you set up the RAID 0 you can specify the stripe size. Typically the smaller it is, the less chance of doing "hateful" things to your data but you lose some speed. Whatever you get, at least get an 8MB buffer and 7200 rpm rotational speed.

And SATA is hot-swappable.

Kingston is decent for the money too but I have no idea on warranty.


It is a lifetime warranty. Which might also indicate just how rarely RAM goes bad in general. ValueRAM FTW!

Stay away from the generic shit

I keep hearing this, but I just never see it. RAM from newegg, Best Buy, CompUSA, whatever.

Also pay attention to the meaning of "Lifetime Warranty". Sometimes this only means for the life of the product on the market, i.e. as long as they are selling that exact model they will replace faulty ones. I know it's this way with PNY video cards.

Cados you are dead on with that. Yes, that is what most manufactures do, BUT it does cover your butt during the period you own and actively use the product which is probably 2-4 years. You will have long since upgraded the item before it is no longer on the market. Plus if you build it yourself and fry a warranty item by mistake during assembly, its makes the RMA process alot less painful.

Cheap memory is fine...you are probably more likely to get a bad stick of it than if you bought a good name brand, but that's what return policies are for. You'll find out if the ram is good or bad when you burn in your system. Run Memtest86 as soon as your machine is able to boot to a floppy. When you get ready to install your OS, if the machine keeps crapping out while trying to install XP then you likely have a hardware problem...and it's most likely memory related. Once your PC has XP...run a burnin program for at least two days...then run memtest86 again. Do not shut your machine off for at least two days =).

If the computer holds up, then chances are it's good for a couple of years.

Buying name brand memory might save you some headaches while setting up your system, but once you're there I've not seen failure rates any worse than name brand stuff.

Cheap memory is fine...you are probably more likely to get a bad stick of it than if you bought a good name brand, but that's what return policies are for. You'll find out if the ram is good or bad when you burn in your system. Run Memtest86 as soon as your machine is able to boot to a floppy. When you get ready to install your OS, if the machine keeps crapping out while trying to install XP then you likely have a hardware problem...and it's most likely memory related. Once your PC has XP...run a burnin program for at least two days...then run memtest86 again. Do not shut your machine off for at least two days =).


Holy crap. You don't honeslty do that do you?

I don't believe in two days of burnin, but my procedure is ALWAYS:

(a) Buy cheapest name brand memory from NewEgg or other reliable online retailer, where name brand includes even Patriot or PQI.
(b) Build machine, and run Memtest86 to ensure compatibility.

I want to give you another viable option:


http://shopping.nwsource.com/p2_images/6/ROP/ROPAdSubregions/8097428.gif.gif
What you see there is an Athlon 64 3000+ in the old 745 process on a cheap motherboard for $139. That's about $150 out the door after tax. That there 300+ 745 process motherboard is going to run almost indistinguishable from a 939 board or even a slightly faster processor unless you're, say, encoding video or using some other VERY CPU intensive process. Most of the time, every other part of your system will be the bottleneck.

Yes, it's AGP. Yes, it's a piece of crap ECS, but I've had a dozen ECS boards over the years, and they're (a) getting better, and (b) not NEARLY as bad as most people will tell you. They do have a quality problem, so POST and TEST them, and if they're functional, they're fine.

I'm buying one of these to fix a problem with one of my machines until I get a new X2 motherboard at the "next big price drop."

(a) Buy cheapest name brand memory from NewEgg or other reliable online retailer, where name brand includes even Patriot or PQI.


I always go for the one that responds best to overclocking, just make sure to stay within your price range. Don't go with the cheapest to save 20-30 bucks, spend the extra money for the ram that will give you the best performance.

Here is a great article for budget ram, whether you want to overclock or not. Me personally I think overclocking is a good and pretty safe idea, its getting the most out of your hardware. Just make sure you know what your doing and DO your research before you attempt anything.

http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=2392&p=1

*sigh*

Ok, lets actual use facts.

http://www.storagereview.com/php/benchmark/compare_rtg_2001.php?typeID=10&testbedID=3&osID=4&raidconfigID=1&numDrives=1&devID_0=251&devID_1=238&devCnt=2

The link above is to Storage Review's results of a PATA and SATA versions of a Maxtor Maxline Plus II 250 gigabyte drive. Those drives are, for all intents and purposes, identical in benchmarks, with the PATA winning some, and the SATA winning some. They are within the margin of error. In a number of cases, they review a drive, and they show HUGE gaps between samples. Take it from me, the hardware in those two drives are IDENTICAL except for the little connector on the back.

Ok, so, you're running two drives in RAID-0, presumably because you hate your data, and you want it to have double the chance to fail. Striped array without fault tolerance. Go go speed! Those drives there have a MAXIMUM sequential read rate at the most dense portion of the platter of 60 megs a second, and a MAXUMUM sequential read rate at the least dense portion of the platter of 30 megs a second. So, even under lab conditions, you can't generate enough data on a sequential read from both drives at the absolute center of the spindle to break the interface limit of PATA. And once you've moved a single cylinder outward, you're only getting less and less data throughput.

Since the Raptor is going to be SATA to support NCQ, tell me, how exactly will you be "fucked," since the PATA interface supports more than the maximum bandwidth of your drives, even in the most unlikely of data reads. So, again, since the PATA interface is faster than even the fastest of drives, even mirrored, and since the actual drive portion of a SATA drive is exactly the same as a PATA drive, unless the drive supports NCQ (or I guess TCQ), It. Is. Not. Any. Faster.

All that said, there still isn't any reason to not have SATA drives. They require less air-flow constricting cabling, they're on a nicer interface, and they pretty much cost the same. ...but lacking TCQ/NCQ, they're not any goddamned faster, and people keep repeating it and it's pure ignorance.

It's simple. You can only write to one drive at a time on a PATA channel. On take that most motherboards only offer two PATA channels. Now I'm limited to 4 drives. Make it 3 because of a DVD burner. So now I have a main OS drive, data drive in raid on slave, the other half of the raid on secondary channel master, and DVD burner on secondary slave. Now if anytime the main os drives has activity half my raid slows down. THIS is what SATA cures. *sigh*

Plenty of reasons to go with SATA. Tons of them. However, "Because the drives are faster" isn't one of those reasons.

Hehe, sometimes I wonder if Palimax is on to some secret that there have been no advances in computer components in the past 5 years and we all have been victims of very savy marketing.

Plenty of advances; but, buy a brand new <Big Company> 250, 300, 400 gigabyte drive in SATA and buy another one in PATA, and put them side by side, and they're exactly the same except the interface on the end.

I'm happy to see people recommend getting SATA drives for the RIGHT reasons.

Friday i decided to say fuck it and ordered an alienware. 3.4ghz witha gig of ram and one of those new 7800gtx video cards. Cost was 2grand. I know everyone is gonna say waste of money but fuck it since i have never put one togteher myself and wouldnt want to fuck it up i said fuck it and went for it. Plus i like that alien ice cooling sysytem. My father has one and it pushes out cold air like an air conditioner.

Anyone have that 7800gtx card yet? I hear its supposed to be faster than 2 6800ultras ruinning in sli.

One piece of advice is if your a gamer NEVER skimp on the video card.

Anyone have that 7800gtx card yet? I hear its supposed to be faster than 2 6800ultras ruinning in sli.

In some tests the 7800 GTX beat two 6800 Ultras but primarily the SLI ultras won. Not by a lot though. One 7800 GTX is a lot cheaper than Ultra SLI.

Beats two 6800 Ultras @ 512MB ea. or 256MB ea. in some tests?

here is a decent article
http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=Nzg0LDIw

I'm getting my 7800 later on this week so should be able to do some testing i hope... :)

7800gtx on doom3
http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=Nzg0LDEw

7800gtx on eq2
http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=Nzg0LDE0

Grats on the new machine Xregg, hope it screams well for ya!

Wow glad I read those forums you linked giena, or else would have missed this.

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/...efurbished=&fe=

used with coupon code.

HLNK6D9KLX27WN

My 7800gtx came out to like 475. So much for getting a 6800Gt for 375 =p The reviews on this card are stupidly sick.

your link does work =\

here (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/ProductDetail.aspx?sku=A0500041&Page=productlisting.aspx&spagenum=1&items_per_page=25&orderby=final_price%20DESC&sortdirection=&image_flag=True&show_summary=True&category_id=6171&brandid=&mnfsku=&SearchType=&Pageb4Search=&ModelSelection=&iCompatid=&selectiontypeids=&l=en&c=us&cs=04&SubmitSearch=&servicetag=&reset=True&k=&mnf=&prst=&prEnd=&InStock=&refurbished=&fe=)see if that works now.

thnx that works....pretty sweet.

Well after a lot of reading and research about to purchase my rig and put it all together (got a friend to come over who knows what hes doing to help me since its my first time).

Here is what I got:

Lian Li PC-65B Black Aluminum ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16811112040) 125.00 (might get 65B plus if I can find it)

Seagate Barracuda 7200.8 ST3300831AS-RK 300GB 7200 RPM Serial ATA150 Hard Drive - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16822148070) 170.00

ASUS A8N-SLI Deluxe Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16813131517) 166.00

Antec TruePower 2.0 TP2-550 EPS12V ATX12V 550W Power Supply - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16817103932) 110.00

CORSAIR XMS 2GB (2 x 1GB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Unbuffered Dual Channel Kit System Memory Model TWINX2048-3200PRO - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16820145503) 255.00

BFG Tech BFGR78256GTXOC Geforce 7800GTX 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814143036) 475.00

AMD Athlon 64 3700+ San Diego 1GHz FSB Socket 939 Processor Model ADA3700BNBOX - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16819103539) 313.00

And going to throw on:

THERMALRIGHT XP-90 Heatsink - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16835109119) 36.99

And 4 panaflo 80mm fans for my case that cost like 30 bucks.

RPM2450Air Flow32.1Noise Level28.0

Grand total: $1674.99

Anyways, anyone got any last minutes suggestions before I purchase this rig? Any feedback would be appreciated, thanks.

If you're going to spend $1700, which seems excessive, at least get yourself a faster primary drive, a nice Raptor.

I was thinking about it, but isn't it somewhat a waste of money to drop another 150 just for the extra RPM upfront and an additional like 36 gigs?

Besides that though, any other suggestions on the rig?

You're not concerned about the space. And you can get a 72 gig Raptor. You're only going to have your SYSTEM there, and it's going to make a big difference. It's going to make a hell of a lot more difference than buying a 5% faster processor.

Ask anyone with a fast primary drive. And, the Raptor will support TCQ on that board, I think.

Well if space is not what I am wanting, 36 gig should be sufficient, right? Or do they make lower capacity ones?

And if I then use my Seagate as a storage HD, do I just set it up as a different drive under my computer, like G? And then just save everything there?

Really did not think that 2800RPM made that big of a difference, and what is TCQ?

Very loosely translated, TCQ "Tagged Command Queing", allows a hard drive to look for data based on where the drive heads are at on the platters, as opposed to what order the system tells the drive to look. Here's a decent explanation of TCQ (http://www.storagereview.com/articles/200406/20040625TCQ_1.html)

And speaking as someone who runs a 74 gig Raptor drive as the OS drive, you'll absolutely AMAZED at how much of a difference it makes your overall speed. I cringe, literally, at the thought of having a 7200RPM 300Gig drive as the main drive in the system. Don't do it man, you'll regret it.

I might as well as this here -

The problem I once had with a small (faster) primary drive + larger (slower) data drive was that Windows and programs alike wanted to install everything to the small Primary C: drive where Windows was installed. Yes some programs would do fine with a simple letter change in the install wizard, but some would not. What is the highest capacity 10,000 RPM Raptor drive? I don't think 36 gigs would be enough room for me to install my usual array of programs.

Well, depends what interface you're looking for Cados. I did a quick search on newegg and came up with 76Gig as the fastest 10,000RPM SATA 150 drives on their site.

If you go SCSI though, there are several 140+ gig drives.

How many Gigs does windows take up? Looking at a 74 gig raptor, its like 160 OEM. Now I remember speaking with cados and he said if it is OEM it might be missing some of the parts I need, that true? Or won't my motherboard come with the SATA cables and such?

As for the setup, if I save games, music, movies etc to my storage drive, will it still effect speed if I just shortcut them to my windows main menu? I would think the RPM only matters where the actual program/file is located.

Oh, and I am going to assume "Command Queuing technology " Is the same as TCQ? since that is what is listed for features on the raptor 74.

Yes Biox the ASUS motherboard should come with SATA cables and such as long as the mobo is a retail box. OEM (in the case of a hard drive) means that no fancy accessories are included, which means screws and a manual might not come with it (someone correct me please if necessary). Check and see if the site mentions anything extra coming with the HD retail version (if they carry it).

I also know that in the case of AMD CPUs for example, OEM means no official packaging, no manual, and no official warranty/support, which is what I am comparing the OEM hard drive to, as I've never bought an OEM hard drive personally. I just assume it's the same/similar situation.

You are correct on the OEM hard drives. All the ones I've ever seen come with the hard drive with no screws, no cables, and maybe a leaflet inside.

BTW, if I go the 2 hard drive route, they can be two sepperate companies, correct?

Yes for sure, although if I ever made a RAID array I would prefer to use the same brand and model of HD (may even be necessary in some cases).

But if you are merely hooking up two drives to be independent of each other, it does not matter if they're the same brand/model.

Cool thanks, and just incase you missed it, will ask again :)

As for the dual HD setup, if I save games, music, movies etc to my storage drive, will it still effect speed if I just shortcut them to my windows main menu? I would think the RPM only matters where the actual program/file is located.

Correct.

Ok well think ill be getting a raptor as my front runner though since it will speed up even stuff I run through storage as well as my OC. I figure I rather spend the extra 150 bucks and save my self a bottletneck on my comp. Plus ill probably just drop my other HD to like a 200 so I get like 275 gigs in the end and only end up paying another 75 than I would have for 300 gig total.

275 gigs should be sufficient considering the HD I am on now and have been using for almost 4 years is 40 gigs =\

Only problem is, if I buy it OEM what else do I need to buy? Apparently it comes bare, so will I need another SATA cable or will my motherboard come with 2? And what screws do I need and where can I get them? frys?

Thanks.

If you click on the motherboard link you posted there are 6 pictures detailing what is inside ;)

I didn't see any screws but I'd be completely dumbfounded if, between your case and your mobo, you didn't end up with a small bag of them.

With the case, apparently:

http://images10.newegg.com/productimage/11-112-040-18.JPG

Just think your new PC could have looked like this......



http://userweb.suscom.net/~kbunn/home_PC.jpg

Nah :)

http://images10.newegg.com/productimage/11-112-040-10.JPG is my case

Though I saw a modding thread and some guy turned it into this.

http://home.comcast.net/~tmnee/Computerpics.html/frontlightwithstealth10.jpg

After playing games like doom3 and battelfield2 on a 7800gtx all i have to say is DAMN!

My bfg 7800gtx just came :) Can't wait for other parts to come and put all my stuff together to test it all out. And in a few months going to probably stick another bfg 7800gtx in there to make it burn :)

If you like shooters your gonna love this card. Doom3 just cant be explained at high quality 1600x1200 with 4xaa and 16x af. And thats running smooth as silk with no hitches or slowdowns.

I download that eq2 trial just to test the graphics and it was amazing. Of course i couldnt play it full blast but man at 1600x1200 high quality its really nice to look at. Something about that engine though just doesnt seem like its optimized too well. Maybe im too used to the fluid movment in WoW.


Usinf hdr in splinter cell chaos theory was also a jaw dropper. It also ran without a hitch at the highest possible settings with hdr and shader 3.0.

What im really waiting for is S.T.A.L.K.E.R. and Quake 4 to come out. They will really make good use of these video cards. Im sure for those of you awaiting Vanguard this might be a good buy too.

I saw some footage of a 6800ultra running some Unreal engine 3 stuff and it looked really sharp. So i imagine the 7800gtx will be much better.

If you are into high end graphics this is THE card to buy.

Got to love this case :)
http://image.alienware.com/images/prod_info_img/cases/configurator_cases/v3_prd_config_space_black_r.jpg

Kind of looks gay. The little alien is for children's amusement me thinks.

I like cases that don't mock transformer faces or have big dumbass plastic aliens glued to them though, so ignore my comment :)

I've found that Alienware cases are WAY too big for my liking. Go see one set-up in Best Buy and you'll see what I mean. A nice mid-tower Tsunami wave case on the other hand is ideal ;).

yeah the case is huge. Runs cool as hell and very quiet too. I love the black case and when i shut the lights out it glows red :) Price wasnt too bad either

What are specs and what you pay? My whole rig ended up costing me like 1900 or so. With my bfg 7800gtx, amd 3700 san diego, asus sli deluxe board, 2 gigs of xms corsair ram, 10k raptor 74gig main hd, 320 gig western digital slave drive, lian li case, a fan controller, and lcd temp moniter on front.

I know someone with an ALX or whatever the huge 5k alienware is, and I thought my gateway (current comp) from 2002 was huge...this thing is a MONSTER. It is like 10,000 pounds and like shakes the room when it turns on its so loud.

Nice Biox..Just got my system built and it's waaay faster than the pentium i used to play EQ on. Glad to see you went with the lian-li case. Very good cases.
I went dual core X2 4800 (Two 2.4 ghz cpu's on one chip) on my setup on a A8N SLI premium motherboard with 2gb of corsair ram. (got the lian li v1000b case tho)
I fully agree on the raptor tho for the boot/OS drive. Used to take 30+ seconds to get to windows, with the raptor it's 15-20 now usually and sometimes less.
Considering buying another BFG 7800 GTX so i can do SLI, but haven't worked up the nerve (or tha bank account yet..lol) Spent about 2k on mine....

Yah, I got the account to buy the other bfg 7800 gtx, just find it useless atm. I rather wait when its under 300 bucks and when I might need it more heh.

Screw nice cases...they just sit under your desk anyway...my rig sits in a

http://www.skyhawkusa.com/IPC4070BK300.gif

Has two ATA hard drive racks and two sata racks

Screw nice cases...they just sit under your desk anyway...my rig sits in a

http://www.skyhawkusa.com/IPC4070BK300.gif

Has two ATA hard drive racks and two sata racks

Actually, mine sits on top of my desk. The hot air coming from the fans forms an uncomfortable heat island effect if I leave it under my desk.

Agreed.

Well just built my comp today finally. Lots of problems and modding whew. Had like 10 different times it would not post because my SATA cables would come lose, and my tornado fans were too strong to use on the fan controllers I bought (so now they are just cool looking flashy light up panels in my 5'25 bays), and then had to take them out since 6000rpm with no way of slowing them down hurts your ears :( Overall though it is a pretty sick setup. The video card is insane.

Getting temps of 33-43C (43 being when I run 10 minute 3d bench mark)

and getting benchmark scores of almost 9000, with my CPU scoring about 4000.

I must say though, you guys were very correct about the raptor HD. Makes a world of a difference. My bootup speed is like 10-15 seconds.

Plus I am getting download speeds now of about 600kb compared to my other comp of like 100kb/sec but I think that is cause of USB 2.0 (other comp lacked those)

Anyways just wanted to thank those who gave a helping hand with providing info. Especially who ever linked hardforum.com found out so much there it's sickening.

They alsohave a sister site that does reviews and such called Hardocp (think link is at hardforums, but if not it shouldn't be too hard to google it).

www.hardforum.com is the forums for [H]ard|OCP (www.hardocp.com), so they're more than just a "sister site". It's just one of the many places on the net to find good information about systems, especially about modding & cooling.

Yah now I just need to order some better cables since my floppy drive cable keeps coming loose and I won't post unless I unplug it and replug it in lol. God I hate that shit :)

With the 500 Gigabyte Deskstar getting some press, I wanted to remind everyone how much the Raptor dominates in every conceivable benchmark.

http://www.tomshardware.com/storage/20050714/hitachi_deskstar-02.html

Pages 2 and 4 are the most revealing.

Sure, you might be shaving 10 seconds off of the booting time with a faster drive. But honestly, do you reboot your computer so frequently that it's even noticable in the long run?

As a swap drive, the Raptor is pretty worthless. Not even a RAM memory on a SATA interface is going to come even close to more RAM on the memory bus. With the typical chance of a page fault upon a memory access being something like 0.000001%, you are much better off buying more memory.

With the 500 Gigabyte Deskstar getting some press, I wanted to remind everyone how much the Raptor dominates in every conceivable benchmark.
Not completely true, even if it performs very well in all tests. It's simply not the ultimate drive.

http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=2396&p=13

Besides, if you have any knowledge about memory hierarchy and unless you are running extremely disk-intense applications, you should think twice before spending your bucks on the raptor.
I'd rather spend my cash elsewhere, but that's just me.

Perhaps I used a bit of hyperbole, but, please, the Raptor is clearly size not withstanding - the best non-SCSI drive you can get. I've got a Fujitsu MAU3147NP (http://www.storagereview.com/articles/200411/20041123MAU3147NP_1.html) (data) and a Seagate ST373474LW (http://www.storagereview.com/articles/200411/20041116ST3146754LW_1.html) (system) in my work machine. They're pretty much the #2 and #3 fastest drives for desktops PERIOD, and they perform much like my Raptor at home. [They should be reversed, as the Fujitsu is faster, but long story short, Dell screwed up and was supposed to ship us a 10k Fujitsu.]

Anyway Brollan, you skip past all the pages of that AndanTech article where the Raptor dominates it's competition in favor of showing load times for a single game.

Here's the first page of benchmarks in the article YOU recommended:
http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=2396&p=6

It wins every benchmark on the first five pages of YOUR article. IPEAK Business, IKPEAK Content Creation, IPEAK Read Service, Winstone Business, Winstone Multimedia, Sysmark 2004 (Office and Overall), Winstone 99 Transfer Rate - and then goes on two win the first two .ZIP file benchmarks before finally not coming in first on a test. It also wins the Application Load Time tests on page 12.

In short, you reference 10 pages of benchmarks, and the Raptor wins 7 of those pages, mostly hands-down.

If you have *ever* had a Raptor drive as your system drive (or a blazingly fast SCSI drive), you'll understand that it makes machines much more responsive. All those times you clicked something and the drive had to spin up and seek out a byte of information...that's where the raptor shines, and that's where the speed and feel of your machine comes from.

Show me someone who moved to a Raptor who'd want to go back :) Then I'll stop beating the Raptor drum.

In short, you reference 10 pages of benchmarks, and the Raptor wins 7 of those pages, mostly hands-down.

Yep, I know. I was trying to point out that the Raptor isn't best at everything :)
I would like to see a new revision of the drive. One with a 16 MB buffer and NCQ. That, I would consider buying. I don't know how expensive it is in the U.S., but over here it's $229, which is a bit of a stretch :)