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Kelraz Bladesinger
03-20-2006, 10:38 PM
I went and visited a friend who's a teacher at a "No Child Left Behind" National Blue Ribbon School. This school is in a fairly affluent part of Maryland, Montgomery County - one of the richer school districts in the nation. She needed to move the desks around and needed a big strong man to help, you remember the drill from your childhoods I imagine.

Jesus what are they doing in schools these days.

They were wrapping up their Maryland State Assessments so I helped collect them and one of the questions was a reading comprehension assignment where they had to read a paragraph and write responses. The paragraph was basic enough, instructions on how to make play dough. One of the questions was, "Were these instructions good for a 3rd Grader and why?" and the response on the top of the stack was ...

"No, 3rd graders aren't supposed to play, they should study."

Please god I hope she was kidding.

First, I work in television and I love it. I wanted to be a Chemist until 10th grade when Mrs. Frisch handed me a camera and asked me to fill in for her regular camera-man on T-Span, William Tennent's inschool television network. You know, morning announcements, whats for lunch, that sort of thing. It was awesome and instantly I changed from Chemistry to Film School and viola, here I am.

I mentioned this lil story to my old teacher / mentor at Tennant and he said they had to close the station. It can't be used anymore because there's no time in the day to watch the 5 minute show ... there's block scheduling now. Photography, Art, Computerand the Band / Chorus classes had to be cut back because the ammount of Math, English and Science credits were increased with the block scheduling (sorta) ... Before classes were 60 minutes each and there was room for 7 periods in a day, but now there's only room for 5 periods a day. Oh and there are no more field trips, they miss too much of the other blocks if you're out of school for a day. Why did they switch to block scheduling?

So students score better on standardized tests.

Math, English, and Science are all kids need to be prepared for college? I thought there was all this uproar against the SATS and standardized testing being bad. I mean on one hand it rocks, I know that when I have kids I'll be sure to give them a rounded education. I won't have as much competition for jobs 10-15 years down the line as uninspired kids roll off to college or trade schools instead of film schools... but its just really sad.

Taleren Bloodsong
03-20-2006, 10:57 PM
That's just sad.

Ibudin
03-21-2006, 06:39 AM
Personally I would rather have the kids learning how to become engineers, chemists, ect.. rather than anything to do with film. Hell I think some of the best in TV never finished their degrees...Peter Jennings?

Sixee
03-21-2006, 08:36 AM
It's a reaction to the rest of the world's children beating the stuffing out of us in Science and Math.
You ask any American 5th grader what a hypotenuse is, and the reaction you are likely to get is a blank stare.
Ask a Japanese or European 5th grader the same question, and they'll give you a paper on the subject.

Kanyli
03-21-2006, 09:35 AM
Ugh, don't get me started.

I'll say this much - I feel bad for the kids at our school. There's so much reinforcement shoved on them for academic classes that they are really limited in choices for electives. Hard to gather ideas for what you want to do in life if you're stuck studying for state tests.

DiscW
03-21-2006, 12:20 PM
In florida we have the wonderful FCAT test. Something you have to pass to graduate from high school, and that most grades have to take. It's used to judge school's performances. If school do poorly, they don't get as much money as those that do better.

So this has lead to schools spending more time teaching kids how to pass the fcat rather than teaching things that they actually need to know. So kids go into high school/college knowing less than they used to since they spent half their time focusing on one test.

Sixee
03-21-2006, 12:28 PM
In florida we have the wonderful FCAT test. Something you have to pass to graduate from high school, and that most grades have to take. It's used to judge school's performances. If school do poorly, they don't get as much money as those that do better.

So this has lead to schools spending more time teaching kids how to pass the fcat rather than teaching things that they actually need to know. So kids go into high school/college knowing less than they used to since they spent half their time focusing on one test.

You would think that the test would have something to do with what the students could use in life? I mean I understand the need for testing, but shouldn't the test actually be practical?

Kanyli
03-21-2006, 02:44 PM
Temper anything I saw with the fact that I'm from Arizona, a state which does it's best to remain at the bottom of the educational swimming pool. And we're good at it too.

Similar test here, the AIMS exam. I've had the unbelievable excitement and joy of administering this test several times, and poke through the test booklet each time. Since the introduction of NCLB the schoolwide curriculum has shifted radically to focus on prepping for this exit exam. My performing arts program has the numbers to justify at least one more section, but I was turned down because of lack of teaching positions - they're dumping extra positions into reinforcement for the tests. Heaven forbid students experience anything other than test prep.

Ibudin
03-21-2006, 02:48 PM
What types of questions are these kids having to answer on these tests?

Kanyli
03-21-2006, 02:58 PM
I should take notes next time. The questions aren't that out of whack (most of the time). They're similar to the SAT/ACT in my mind, dealing with general math, reading, and writing. The big downside is many of them aren't written well. I didn't look very closely at it this year, but in previous years they were criticized for being too hard for most seniors to handle, take that as you will. Remember this is coming from Arizona seniors too!

The test itself is not the heart of the problem. Scoring schools and teachers by the test is a big issue right now. My school, in a very affluent neighborhood where it's not uncommon for kids to drive H2's and BMWs scored very high. Strangely enough (and not predicable at all!) the school in my neighborhood, a place where we hear police sirens and 'coptors at least twice a week at night, was rated as failing. Monies are withdrawn and we received a letter saying that if we had kids at that school the state had to pay for them to be transported to a school that scored higher.

Guess which demographic of parents is more likely to move their kids from school to school.

I wish the local school luck on getting back up and running, but I just don't see that happening. Meanwhile they'll be doing like my school does, but on a bigger level. Cut non-curricular classes and dump resources into AIMS reinforcement. While the kids might pass the test they sure won't be ready for the world.

Fandros
03-21-2006, 05:30 PM
It's reports like this that have me second guessing any efforts to clean up the system. It seems we keep programming in faults that short circuit the system and any efforts to reclaim it.


Fandros

Elemak the Enchanter
03-21-2006, 05:53 PM
My biggest problem with having any sort of standardized test, is thateventually rather than teach the answers to the test, they teach how to take the test.

Fandros
03-21-2006, 06:53 PM
No Child Left behind....Ted Kennedy's brainchild and sadly Bush's mutational project to appease the left.

Teach the answers to the test, so guess the answer is make the test what needs to be taught to succeed in todays job markets?

Fandros

Kanyli
03-21-2006, 07:01 PM
Which is what though, Fandros? Are we prepping students for college? Or trade school? Or non-traditional freelance work? Technology-oriented jobs? Farming? No one has a clue what that test should be about or what we should teach.

Before you get too disparaged by my stories (I like stories!), the fact that I'm in Arizona is significant. I had the chance to do some traveling this year and what I saw was along the same lines as what people have been telling me about other schools. Not that everyone doesn't have problems, but we really are backwards in Arizona. The biggest difference I saw was parent involvement and expectations. Take last week for example - week before spring break, and prep week for district standardized tests. I'd venture that half my freshman were gone for early spring breaks...hard to prep 'em when they're gone.

No doubt that education is a mess right now, but there have been huge significant strides in improving things over the last decade or so. NCLB just wasn't one of them.

Fandros
03-21-2006, 07:41 PM
Well, you're talking to a parent who's told his son he's going to hold him back in 8th grade if he doesn't carry at least a 2.0 gpa.

Yes I knows it's harsh, but when the boy has decided not to do homework, study or put forth more of a serious effort going into the grades he'll carry the rest of his life what am I to do?

His school would have a hard time doing it on their own but they have given me their support.

To be honest I told him this two weeks ago, the change has been significant...

I feel your pain M'lady Teacher, I do. I even enjoy your stories. ;P

Fandros

Bylimet Spiritwalker
03-21-2006, 08:10 PM
I have many complaints about the schools systems; although my two kids are out of school now, one of the grandkids is already pushing the limits in her elementary class.

Back when I was in school (a couple hundred years ago) elementary classes started each morning with the Pledge of Allegiance, and I believe they still should. Make the flag important to kids at an early age. (And yes, I think adding the line "under God" was a ridiculous move that was among the building blocks that destroyed the country's patriotic nature following World War 2)

In 10th grade we had Civics class, which was a combination of drivers ed and the responsibilities you had to your community when you got behind the wheel, political science and a rudimentary intro to the political system and how and why we had the democratic system we still enjoy today, discussions of the Pledge of Allegiance and Bill of Rights and Constitution, and assignments involving community activities. My son had no clue what I was talking about when I asked him about this kind of class five years ago.

Both my son and daughter (31 and 21 now) were able to design their own schedules in their senior year, something completely unbelievable in my day. A foreign language was never required; my son never had any of the trade classes that were basic in junior high in my day (one semester each of woodworking, printing, drafting and metalworking, with electricity being an optional substitute for any one of the others), and very little supervision of individual students' progress in required classes. And the Stillwater school system is one of the top (or was) in the state; people still move here to raise their kids in this school district.

There has been too much meddling in what Johnny and Mary need to learn and not enough attention paid to what Johnny and Mary need to live in this society. Socialization skills are all but ignored; citizenship is no longer given any emphasis; there is no longer any avenue offered to the student that is not able or not interested in pursuing higher learning. By pandering to the parents that want to see A report cards and the politicians that want more monies for their districts, we have failed our children miserably.

Sorry for the rambling rant, but I needed to say something on this topic.

Sixee
03-22-2006, 08:18 AM
I'm not nearly as old as having gone to school a a couple hundred ago, but the changes I see do make me wonder, what the heck is happening.
I think a lot of it boils down to parents wanting to see their kids be overachievers, but without the effort on thier part.
Many parents seem to be asleep at the wheel. I remember when I got in trouble in school 1 time, and my mom came to the school, and beat my butt.
You just don't see that happening nowdays.

Kelraz Bladesinger
03-22-2006, 01:33 PM
Personally I would rather have the kids learning how to become engineers, chemists, ect.. rather than anything to do with film. Hell I think some of the best in TV never finished their degrees...Peter Jennings?

And I personally would rather have kids given the opportunity to experience all aspects of life and pick the profession best suited to them rather than one of 10 generic choices. Happiness is directly related to success. Those unhappy in their jobs never reach the upper eschelons.

Peter Jennings is a very poor example of a "tv person". He was a son of the head of the news department of the CBC so obviously he got a lot of education at home. He also had an army of producers and reporters working behind the scenes helping him along the way -- most of which did get degrees in Journalism, not Film, because the two are as related as Computer Science is to Graphic Design. No one with only a film background would ever be concidered a probable candidate for an anchor of a network because one is scientific and the other is artistic.

That was a bit off topic, but none the less. The entertainment industry is one of the United State's largest exports. The arts offer a great release and stir a creative imagination, something required to make new breakthroughs in the sciences and engineering. Without these backgrounds less fortunate children (you know, those not raised by Charles Jennings) are put in a very disfortunate and uncompetitive position. Not every child can be a left brain thinker, only teaching to half the population is going to be very dangerous for the future of all children in this country.

Fandros
03-22-2006, 01:36 PM
I think the big focus should be on providing a core firm education in the 3 R's. After that work the aptitudes...

I know I don't want my hard earned tax dollar teaching some kid how to tote a camera or pretend to be someone else...

Let that be elective and paid for by the parents imho.

Fandros

Kelraz Bladesinger
03-22-2006, 01:59 PM
How can someone understand the real life applications of math or science without creativity?

Who were the great thinkers of all the ages? Who created the most dramatic changes in the world with their mind? Would they have ... had their lives been devoid of the arts?

Sixee
03-22-2006, 02:14 PM
No one with only a film background would ever be concidered a probable candidate for an anchor of a network because one is scientific and the other is artistic.


News reporters? Scientific?
I think some scientists would have issue with that statement.
Last time I checked, the requirements for a good news anchor were a stable hairline, and clean gums.
Oh, and being a card-carrying Bush Basher as well.

Ailwon
03-22-2006, 03:49 PM
Oh, and being a card-carrying Bush Basher as well.

Hard not to be one of those anymore!! :p

Kelraz Bladesinger
03-22-2006, 11:48 PM
Yes, news reporters gather, analyze, and report data. Reporting is the last step in the scientific method. Just because someone doesn't work with beakers and wear a lab coat doesn't mean they aren't scientific.

Sixee
03-23-2006, 07:55 AM
Yes, news reporters gather, analyze, and report data. Reporting is the last step in the scientific method. Just because someone doesn't work with beakers and wear a lab coat doesn't mean they aren't scientific.

Now if Reporters did that, they'd be doing thier job.
Instead what we see all too often is the reporter's point of view entering the story.
Case in point, and it really doesn't have anything to do with Bush, believe it or not.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060321/ts_alt_afp/usjusticeteacheryouth_060321224302;_ylt=ApLpQeWYDZ 8Iz8wYos.OOlsFO7gF;_ylu=X3oDMTA5bGVna3NhBHNlYwNzc3 JlbA--

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060321/us_nm/crime_teacher_dc_1;_ylt=AtDDd.aDwZMX74ccNaHYEITmWM cF;_ylu=X3oDMTA5bGVna3NhBHNlYwNzc3JlbA--

In the first link there is the paragraph:
The attractive blonde, blue-eyed teacher, Debra LaFave, 25, had earlier admitted to having had sex with her student several times in 2004, including in a mobile classroom where she taught and twice inside a car driven by the victim's older brother, who was only 15.

In the second story there is no mention if her "Attractiveness"
Who determines if she is attractive? You ? Me? The reporter? His/her editor. What if you are offended by blonde women? What if blue eyes freak me out? How is reporting on her "Attractiveness" scientific?

Palarran
03-24-2006, 03:28 AM
Odd...in my high school only two years of math and three years of science were required (if I remember right), while four years of both English and history were required to graduate under normal circumstances.

Of course this had no bearing on anyone that took their education even remotely seriously. Calculus, generally taken as a senior, was easily the most popular AP (Advanced Placement) exam offered; even my friends that were far more interested in law or politics took this class. Most people took classes in all four major subjects every year, along with a foreign language most years. I just found it strange that the official requirements would be biased _against_ math and science in this way.

We had nine 41-minute periods, by the way.

Kanyli
03-24-2006, 09:36 PM
Hey Palarran! Haven't spoken to you in years...

Generally you have the basic exit requirements to graduation HS, then the recommended or required classes by colleges. It isn't hard to separate who is doing what out of the campus, based on exactly what you just said.

According to our assis. principal in charge of testing, our biggest problems on the exit exams are the middle of the road kids. The high achievers just keep high achieving, and it's easy to bring up the middle rung. The C - D students who just don't care go on...just not caring. Those are also the ones who tend to figure out the system, damn troublemakers (joke). When they realize they want to be an auto mechanic and don't need to go to Harvard for it, they're pretty content with D's. If mom and dad are of the same mindset, it's just as bad.