A few controversies I heard about today at work. First, it seems that some of the fireworks in the Olympics opening were CGI or filmed in advance and edited in to the "live" feed that the networks unknowingly were given for the event...

And the singing girl who sand during the opening ceremony was too ugly to actually sing, so they kept her offstage while a more attractive girl lip synced the words...

Second one was that apparently the bulk of China's Olympians were torn from their families as children to be trained in pseudo-compounds by the government in skills which would lead to numerous gold medals (swimming and track and so forth, you don't see a Chinese team at beach volleyball or fencing or other skill sets that only yield 1 gold medal), basically Olympic Gold Medal factories of sorts hoping to show up the US and Russia.

Thoughts?

A few controversies I heard about today at work. First, it seems that some of the fireworks in the Olympics opening were CGI or filmed in advance and edited in to the "live" feed that the networks unknowingly were given for the event...

Second one was that apparently the bulk of China's Olympians were torn from their families as children to be trained in pseudo-compounds by the government in skills which would lead to numerous gold medals (swimming and track and so forth, you don't see a Chinese team at beach volleyball or fencing or other skill sets that only yield 1 gold medal), basically Olympic Gold Medal factories of sorts hoping to show up the US and Russia.

Thoughts?

I also heard on CNN that they might be putting forth 14 year old gymnasts which is apparently against the rules.

Yeah, I watched the complete gymnastics event, and although the Chinese athletes did an excellent job, they were definitely not, in my opinion, at or above the required age of 16 (I'm thinking 12'ish, if that, lol). But apparently China had printed them passports saying they were at the right age, so no one can really contest it.

Also, the "cuter" girl who lip-synched was thrown into the ceremony near the last minute, and her own father didn't even know she was going to be a part of it until 15 minutes before the fact (according to an AP article I read)! I guess China knows how to use its people *shrug.

The gov't taking them from their families at a very young age with very limited contact with their families is very sad, too. A lot of those poor people don't know what basic civil liberties are.

The CGI effects were not hidden, at least not by the NBC announcers I listened too. They both commented on the virtual, digital, fireworks leading up to the Birds Nest.

Yeah, the games have definitely not endeared the government to me at all. They faked the passports of at least 4 gymnasts to get around a rule about subject very young girls to high pressure and athletic slavery. But on flip side, the girls and their families are treated extremely well...IF they win that is.

...and as for the little girl lip sync:


"Our president may have gone there just to watch the games. The Chinese leadership does not take that view," said Andrew Nathan, political science department chairman at Columbia University. "They want to send a message ... the message of flawless execution."

They sent a message alright, they control their people extremely well.

Now, to be fair, lets keep this in perspective. Very, VERY few of the musical performances you see in the US are truly live, many performers use a lypsinc to preserve their voice. Often the track they're singing to is prerecorded and EQ's - much better than they would sound live. As for swapping an ugly kid for a cute celeb - gee, that would never happen in another country.

Fireworks - not sure why they bothered? Again, it's all about presentation, and we pull the same crap here.

Our government may not be taking kids away from families to go to gold medal farms, but do some reading on child athletes, especially gymnastics. Didn't we have a thread on that here recently? The difference is minimal in my mind - one is at the call of the government, the other is at allowed by a public that turns a blind eye.

Cheating at the games is sad, but should we bring up US athletes stripped of medals for steroid (etc) usage?

I'm not condoning these things in the slightest, but it's not as though we have a clean slate to criticize them from.

Very, VERY few of the musical performances you see in the US are truly live, many performers use a lypsinc to preserve their voice.

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaatttt?????????? ??????????????

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaatttt?????????? ??????????????Many rock performers run a vocal track live, and sing over the top of it. So they are still singing, but not full force, and not as authentic as the audience typically assumes. The occasional performer who gets caught - New Kids on the Block was the big stink waaaay back when and it slammed their careers pretty hard, and a few more recent that I can't remember - everyone acts shocked. The only concert I ever remember where the performer was up front about it was a Sammy Hager concert, when the guy had a sore throat. They just kicked the track up higher than normal to cover for him, and he had the brains to tell the audience in advance.

"Many" and "Very, VERY few" are drastically different. This year alone I've gone to a dozen concerts for BET and the Virgin Festival for MTV and was on stage / behind stage for a number of these performances and didn't hear a single vocal track they were singing along to. It might happen, but its just as taboo here as it was there, and hardly the accepted status quo.

That was my point - we don't like it, but we aren't innocent.

With a good sound engineer, you shouldn't hear the vocal track. Maybe not every band, but singers focused on high quality voices - soloists, older groups, that sort of thing - need vocal tracks - you can't sing like that night after night on a concert schedule. More rock-ish bands are less likely to use them.

The use of pre-recorded drum tracks is frequent and annoying too, and I'm noticing more of that.

That was my point - we don't like it, but we aren't innocent.

With a good sound engineer, you shouldn't hear the vocal track. Maybe not every band, but singers focused on high quality voices - soloists, older groups, that sort of thing - need vocal tracks - you can't sing like that night after night on a concert schedule. More rock-ish bands are less likely to use them.

The use of pre-recorded drum tracks is frequent and annoying too, and I'm noticing more of that.

If an Opera singer can sing the way they do one to two shows a day for months on end, and back before high quality audio recording people were able to handle tour schedules, they could certainly still do it today.

And whether our performers are innocent or not is completely different than a government deceiving a world audience and very much off topic.

Can't as in, get sick, bad voice day, etc. in front of a massive paying audience in an unforgiving industry.

I would consider concession and acceptance by the public to be worse than enforcement by the government. That is to say, the Chinese may not have a choice, we do and tend to prefer to live in happily in ignorance as consumers.

China has plenty to be vilified for, but I think we're just picking at anything we can out of the Olympics. I'm not condoning any of it, just pointing out they aren't unique in these actions.

And I'll concede,the "very very few" was a poor choice of words. Still, many performers, and far more than people realize.

It's a series of actions that build a case to be disgusted, the lip-syncing just symbolizes the way the government acts in general...


:bdiamondThe gold medal child farms and how their athletes are treated
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/06/20/asia/20olympics.php

"The athletes themselves basically have no idea of their injuries and they usually don't have a say" in how they are treated, said Dr. Wang Yubin, the medical director for the sports injury department at Shanghai East International Medical Center. Decisions about how to handle injuries of important athletes, he said, are made by officials of the sporting establishment.


:bdiamondFaking passports for gymnasts

:bdiamondThe forced land seizures, evictions of up 1.5 million people

:bdiamondThe way they have treated media around Tiananmin square

:bdiamondThe last minute revoking of visas

:bdiamondInternet censorship tightening leading up to the olympics

:bdiamondThe air quality in Bejing - Not fit for the Olympics for sure

Now on the flip side, the people themselves are described as extremely polite and thoughtful.

I agree with most of those points, but I have to disagree on some of them:

Faking passports for gymnasts

Where is the evidence? Female gymnists by nature are very small in stature. It allows them to rotate their bodies much more quickly than people with larger frames. The accusations are abound in the media but no one has put forward any evidence that the female chinese athelets are under 16. Does the IOC perform some additional tests when these chinese atheletes win medals and must be subjected to the mandatory drug testing?

The last minute revoking of visas

Of atheletes? media? spectators? Hosting countrys routinley revoke the visas of preceived undesirables in the last minute including Western countries. Would you deny this will happen when next the U.S. hosts an olympics. I will put money on it that it will happen with all the 9/11 security crap you have put up at your borders.

The air quality in Bejing - Not fit for the Olympics for sure

Would L.A. be able to host the olympics with its average air quality? I am sure it has skyrocketed since 1984 and hits unhealthy levels regularly.

I have to agree with Kanyli wholeheartedly:

I'm not condoning these things in the slightest, but it's not as though we have a clean slate to criticize them from.


Cheers,

Where is the evidence?

http://www.nbcolympics.com/gymnastics/news/newsid=164058.html

news articles, official registrations etc.

Of atheletes? media? spectators?

Kinda jumped the gun on that one...though the visa requirements have increased, it really is expected due to terrorist threats. The one that got my attention was the revoking of Joey Cheeks visa right before the games. Of course, they don't allow any form of protest whatsoever so I'm not sure why he was so surprised.

Would L.A. be able to host the olympics with its average air quality? I am sure it has skyrocketed since 1984 and hits unhealthy levels regularly.

I'd probably be against LA hosting the games as well for that reason...or here in Denver, though we've been doing better of late. My point is, it's not a good place to hold athletic pursuits.

I'm not condoning these things in the slightest, but it's not as though we have a clean slate to criticize them from.

Kind of an interesting take to not be able to criticize anyone or anything unless you're a freaking saint. I know that's an extreme take on that statement, but still, it's not a good one. Kanyli's take on US athletes steroid use wasn't government sponsored or condoned. The cheating and disturbing things the Chinese government does around these games is.

http://www.nbcolympics.com/gymnastic...id=164058.html (http://www.nbcolympics.com/gymnastics/news/newsid=164058.html)
news articles, official registrations etc.
(http://www.nbcolympics.com/gymnastics/news/newsid=164058.html)

Its a he said / she said scenario. Is there a medical test that can narrow down these competators age to either over 16 or under? Without a medical test observed and verified by an indifferent 3rd party it will be impossilbe to put this contraversy to rest.

China has the capability of doctoring any document it wants, so does any other nation around the world for that matter. Only a medical test (if one exists) can prove or dissprove the aqusations, everything else is hear say.

One thing I forgot to mention, has anyone else read or heard about the dissmal attendance at many of the "non marquee" venues?

The beach volleyball stands are nearly empty for round robin play.

Apparently the grapevine is saying the chinese government held back massive blocks of tickets and gave them to party officials to sell to their famlies and friends. Apparently the price wasn't right. It's a shame since 1000's around the world and even the common peeps in China were clamouring to get ahold of said tickets.

Cheers,

(http://www.nbcolympics.com/athletes/athlete=824/bio/index.html)Yang Yilin (http://www.nbcolympics.com/athletes/athlete=824/bio/index.html), a medal contender in the all-around and uneven bars, was born Aug. 26, 1993, according to the 2004, 2005 and 2006 registration lists previously posted on the Web site of the General Administration of Sport of China

Hear say? Are you claiming they didn't cheat? Between the newspaper articles (which are state run), and the registrations, what we know of China's athletic slavery, and their proven insatiable appetite for gold medals at any cost, the evidence seems pretty compelling to me.

It's a shame since 1000's around the world and even the common peeps in China were clamouring to get ahold of said tickets.

That is a shame, despite my problems with their government, the people there, from every account I can get a hold of, are wonderful.

Kind of an interesting take to not be able to criticize anyone or anything unless you're a freaking saint. I know that's an extreme take on that statement, but still, it's not a good one. Kanyli's take on US athletes steroid use wasn't government sponsored or condoned. The cheating and disturbing things the Chinese government does around these games is.Depends on what you're criticizing. Lip syncing is hardly a major offense - Internet censorship is in my mind, but that's not the story that I keep hearing on the radio.

I also think that government control is quite possibly less grevious than the gross public acceptance that we have in the west. In China at least the argument can be made that the people have no choice. In the US we have a choice, and we accept and allow many of the same things China is doing. We can absolutely criticize, but lets go for the worthwhile fights.

The government of China Sucks!

The government of Russia Sucks!

The government of the U.S. Sucks!

The same can be said for a vast number of other countries.


Fortunately, each country has a multitude of people who do not suck, but want basically the same things for themselves, their families, and their country. It is the blessing of these people's existence and intelligence and continued striving for something better than what the governments keep offering that keeps the world worth preserving.

Depends on what you're criticizing. Lip syncing is hardly a major offense - Internet censorship is in my mind, but that's not the story that I keep hearing on the radio.

I also think that government control is quite possibly less grevious than the gross public acceptance that we have in the west. In China at least the argument can be made that the people have no choice. In the US we have a choice, and we accept and allow many of the same things China is doing. We can absolutely criticize, but lets go for the worthwhile fights.

Lip syncing which you seem to focus on isn't hardly as bad as telling a little girl minutes before she's supposed to go on that she's too ugly for the world to see and she needs to stay backstage and out of sight.

Depends on what you're criticizing. Lip syncing is hardly a major offense - Internet censorship is in my mind, but that's not the story that I keep hearing on the radio.

Actually, I haven't heard crap about it days...it's all about the gymnastics age controversy now. If your condemning the media on the over playing of the lip syncing, fine, I agree.

I also think that government control is quite possibly less grevious than the gross public acceptance that we have in the west. In China at least the argument can be made that the people have no choice. In the US we have a choice, and we accept and allow many of the same things China is doing. We can absolutely criticize, but lets go for the worthwhile fights.

I haven't a fricken clue what you are talking about. Go back and read my post. IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT LIP SYNCING....and Kel had damn fine point about that. It's also BS making a statement that you can't criticize another government if yours sucks too. Taking 3 and 4 year olds from their families to go into athletic slavery, cheating (like on the ages), and the overall obsession at any cost the Chinese have for gold medals is sickening. Couple that with their human rights record (and yes, Jedd, I know the US sucks in that department too) and you a very tarnished Olympic games IMO. The lip syncing is small part that these Olympics have painted of the Chinese government. It's not a pretty picture.

All I was trying to say, prior to the descent into lip syncing between Kelraz and myself, is that we're vilifying the Chinese over small things that we do in the western world, and paying much less attention to actual abuses and mockeries of the Olympics. At dinner tonight I had to sit through another damn discussion about CGI fireworks. Really, that's the big problem?

Maybe I'm jaded from working in the entertainment industry. We pull ugly people for pretty people on TV all the time. One of the worst gigs I've worked was a commercial involving child actors, and their auditions. You wouldn't believe what people do to get on TV, and what small flaws get you kicked off.

As to the other issues, this is like showing up to work 45 minutes late, and then complaining about the guy who is an hour late. No other countries would cheat at the Olympics and tarnish the games, right? http://www.google.com/search?q=gold+medals+stripped&sourceid=navclient-ff&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGGL,GGGL:2006-22,GGGL:en

Listen, I love the Olympics. I don't like China's actions. But keep things in perspective when we start flinging poo.

By all means, lets talk about human rights abuse, censorship, and gold farming.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3542649

Great article/parody by Rick Reilly.

No other countries would cheat at the Olympics and tarnish the games, right?

Those weren't "countires" cheating, they were individuals...damn big difference.

My point again, their actions in these games have deplorable...as is there human rights record, censorship and...what? gold farming, really? gold farming.:)

They can melt down the medals and sell the gold in WoW for mad cash.

They can melt down the medals and sell the gold in WoW for mad cash.

Bet they would get much more selling them in WoW unmelted, as talisman neck pieces.

Well it seems the IOC have decided to look into the age of chinese gymnasts afterall. And not because of the work of any of the reporters there...

http://deadspin.com/5040207/ioc-finally-launches-investigation-into-chinese-gymnasts-thanks-to-stryde-hax

What's even more amazing is the fact that this possibly medal-altering revelation was initiated by "Stryde Hax" who's who's neither super-journalist or super-sports fan, but just a dude named Mike Walker who loves to Google Hack as a hobby.

"There was a conclusion here," Mr Walker said. "These documents existed, on a state-wide website, and now they don’t exist, and this change has taken place recently. I was interested because these were documents that no-one could find. If there’s information to be found on the internet I’m a citizen journalist - it was a challenge."