http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/31/george-tiller-killed-abor_n_209504.html

WICHITA, Kansas -- Dr. George Tiller, a Kansas doctor whose clinic received national attention for performing late-term abortions, was shot to death as he entered his Wichita church on Sunday.

Media reports said the suspected killer fled the scene in a blue Taurus. Police described him as a white male in his 50s or 60s.

seems they caught him.

Give him the chair.

Any information saying the killer was a proclaimed Christian?...I'd just classify this guy as whack job. Terroist? You're not getting me to bite on that.

Any information saying the killer was a proclaimed Christian?...I'd just classify this guy as whack job. Terroist? You're not getting me to bite on that.

White male in his 50's, knew which church the man went to... I am guessing he is christian, but you would guess the same with similar evidence in regards to a Muslim doing something similar.

No but we do guess you like to grind your high heels in America's crouch whenever possible.

No but we do guess you like to grind your high heels in America's crouch whenever possible.

Crouch is something you do in counterstrike... I do like to point out something like this to show how it is usually dismissed as some crazy person, but when done by someone of the muslim faith, it is a terrorist act.

It's an act of domestic terrorism if he has some sort of agenda, on the other hand maybe he aborted the guy's unborn child and it was revenge then it's plain old murder. This guy could have been muslim, catholic, mormon, etc etc you don't know which, thanks for being retarded.

If the guy had been brown and beheaded a white person on video, almost everyone in this country would assume he was a radical fundamentalist extremist terrorist.

Guy kills an abortion doctor, and we start making what-if excuses for it, even though we know there's fundamentalist Christian precedent for this?

If Tiller was killed because of his work, he would be the fourth U.S. physician killed over abortion since 1993.

In 1998, a sniper killed Dr. Barnett Slepian in his Amherst, New York, home. Anti-abortion activist James Kopp was later arrested in France and is serving life in prison.

In 1994, Dr. John Bayard Britton and one of his volunteer escorts were shot and killed outside an abortion clinic in Pensacola, Florida. Paul Hill, a former minister, was convicted of the killings and executed in 2003.

And in 1993, another doctor, David Gunn, was shot to death outside another Pensacola clinic. His killer, Michael Griffin, is serving a life sentence.
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In addition, a nurse at a Birmingham, Alabama, clinic was maimed and an off-duty police officer was killed in a 1998 bombing by Eric Rudolph, who included abortion among his list of anti-government grievances.

Had he stood in the middle of the room chanting something about GOD, and the blowing himself up killing as many people around him, and then shortly after a select group of people boldly start taking responsibilty for the killing...then I'd jump on the terrorism bandwagon...for now its some whack job. We have had a couple major killings in chuches in Wisconsin the last few years...all of them where mental, not terrorists.

all of them where mental, not terrorists.

I'm not sure there's a big difference.

You got me there!

My point is, there are plenty of "reasons' for killing a man. for all we know the good doctor was fucking the guy's wife. I mean shoot if she had shown up at his clinic, he at least knew she put out... but we don't know yet. And had he kidnapped him ,then posted a video chanting God is great and then beheading him, yes i would be inclined to lump him into the terrorist category.

then posted a video chanting God is great and then beheading him

My point isn't that he is surely a Christian anti-abortion nut, but that we should assume he is if we were consistent at all in our prejudices about this terrorism nonsense.

When a brown person in the Middle East kills a white person, we assume it's fundamental Islam blah blah etc. What if it's just because the white guys raped his wife or killed his family?

Whether on purpose or not, Jedd's point of assuming that the guy is a Christian "terrorist" is worth contrasting with how we think about other "terrorists".

True enough, however it is entirely possible he is just a crazy guy terrorist and not a christian terrorist. my point against Jedd's argument is that he gets all fired up about how we call every brown person killing a whitey in the middle east a terrorist is just as bad as him jumping to conclusions.

True enough, however it is entirely possible he is just a crazy guy terrorist and not a christian terrorist. my point against Jedd's argument is that he gets all fired up about how we call every brown person killing a whitey in the middle east a terrorist is just as bad as him jumping to conclusions.

You missed the point... I was trying to show some people here's subtle racism, and it worked.

Not really, but you can keep thinking that if it makes you feel better. Not enough facts, and your really the only one calling it terrorism, CNN surely isnt? Guess you > than they?

Even the president is considering the killing an act by a man with opposing views on Abortion... Hey who has opposing views on abortion????????

What is really disgusting is that his behavior is probably fueled by talk assholes like Rush limbaugh and other hate specialists.

oh and...

Johnson County Sheriff's deputies stopped Scott Roeder on I-35 between the two main Gardner exits around 1:30 p.m. He surrendered without incident. Deputies did not find any weapons on him...


According to Phannestiel, Roeder is on temporary hold for Sedgwick County at the Johnson County New Century Detention Center near Gardner. Roeder is considered a person of interest at this time.

In 2007, someone named Scott Roeder posted the following on the Website of anti-abortion group Operation Rescue:

Bleass everyone for attending and praying in May to bring justice to Tiller and the closing of his death camp. Sometime soon, would it be feasible to organize as many people as possible to attend Tillers church (inside, not just outside) to have much more of a presence and possibly ask questions of the Pastor, Deacons, Elders and members while there? Doesn't seem like it would hurt anything but bring more attention to Tiller.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/31/scott-roeder-held-as-pers_n_209551.html

You guys know I've been on this for a while now.

We as a society are WAY to eager to call people "Terrorists". Everyone who opposes the US is not a terrorist. Everyone fighting in Iraq in 2006 or in Pakistan are not terrorists. Sure they may be terrible people, but the term "Terrorist" implies specific motivations.

Before we can apply this label to this asshole who killed a man in Kansas we have to find out a little bit more info.

If on one hand, this guy fashioned himself as a neo-John Brown, and killed this person in order to spread fear to other doctors and advance his cause, then yes.. he is a terrorist.

If on the other hand, he was a lone wack job, who snapped for some reason and killed a man he had an issue with because he was a convenient target, then no.. not a terrorist.. just a murderer.

Either way.. the abortion debate has been over for a long time. The anti abortion side lost. Guys like this are like the Japanese guys hiding on the island for 20 years thinking the war was still on.

Can't this just be labeled what it is? A crime?

If something revolves around a politically charged issue, does it by default become terrorism? In that case most anything can be pegged to terrorism. Oh and before you limit Christianity to being the cracker religion of choice and Islam the brown person's staple faith, take a trip south of the border.

Bleass everyone for attending and praying in May to bring justice to Tiller and the closing of his death camp. Sometime soon, would it be feasible to organize as many people as possible to attend Tillers church (inside, not just outside) to have much more of a presence and possibly ask questions of the Pastor, Deacons, Elders and members while there? Doesn't seem like it would hurt anything but bring more attention to Tiller.

Had he stuck to this idea, he would have been well within his rights as an American citizen.

He unfortunately decided murder was the better method. Obviously outside the realm of acceptable behavior. And if it was motivated by his religion (which we still don't know, he could be a jew! Hell he could even be muslim) and he acted because of his affiliation then yeah he's a terrorist.

And L2 is absolutely right, not every asshole in Iraq and Douchebagistan is a terrorist even though Fox news would like to think so. I can almost respect the honest to goodness Iraqis and Afghanis who are fighting against us not because of some religious fervor, but because they feel we have invaded their home and need to be pushed out. However a good portion of them are in fact terrorists and our primarily supported by Al qaida and other similar groups which is why they get lumped in with them.

These hardcore anti-abortion guys are just as crazy as the radical Islam nuts, right down to the last drop.

http://www.armyofgod.com/POClist.html

(Stephen's own brother and his church sold him out to the authorities. Another example not tell ANYONE; before, during or after, if you are planning on taking action. Your family, pro-lifers and your church 'friends' will sell you out in a heartbeat, thinking they are doing God's will.)


Oh Yea!, isolated individual wacko's indeed.

He was a terrorist. He had been arrested before with bomb materials in his trunk. The guy also is a MAJOR PRO LIFE nutjob. That said, I immediately gave the same response I do for terrorists. Execute him. He was trying to set up some kind of major protest where they would get inside this guys church and in the faces of those inside.

Also this poor doctor, had been shot before and I am pretty sure they burned down his clinic. She was on that page San linked even!

Rachelle (Shelley) Shannon
Shelley with daughter Angie who also was POC
Rachelle Shannon #59755-065
FCI Waseca
PO Box 1731 Unit A
Waseca MN 56093
e-mail Put prisoner name in subject line and include a U. S. Postal address for a reply

In Since: August 18, 1993 AD
Charge: Attempted murder
Shot late term babykiller abortionist George Tiller in the arms to stop him from murdering any more children.
Sentence: 31 years
Shelley Shannon's legal name is Rachelle Shannon. You must use Rachelle on the envelope when writing Shelley.

I said a few years ago, teh difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter depends on which side of the bomb you are on.

Although I don't agree with the freedom fighter vs terrorist argument above, it does bring up an interesting point...how do you define "terrorist"?

If it's simply killing to make a political statement...this guy was most assuredly a terrorist. I think that is too broad...and define it more on discrimination. I really look at terrorists as being indiscriminate killers killing to make a political statement..they don't care who they kill, friend, foe, man women, child..they are all fair game. With that definition he is not a terrorist...had he shot several others in the church for shits and giggles, then he would be a terrorist. It has nothing to do with race.

Assuming his motivation was the fundie Christian one (do we know that yet? I haven't been keeping up today), I think he's a terrorist. Even if part of his purpose was to "punish" this one doctor, doing it publicly at a church is certainly a message to other doctors.

Where are those quotes coming from Velvet and Elemak? Did I miss a url in this thread? I'd like to see more of that if possible.

Motivation and body count makes a terrorist in my mind.

He was out to kill 1 person, but his motivation was to cause terror in other doctors that practice this type of late term abortion, I'm sure.

Although I'm sure only he could answer what his true motivations are, I'd call him a terrorist, albiet one with a low body count.

Why is it a requirement to chant god and behead someone, to proclaim it terrorism? I think the West is once again falling into that grand generalisation, where the mis-understood ways of one thing are being narrowly lumped with another.

'He had been arrested before with bomb materials in his trunk. The guy also is a MAJOR PRO LIFE nutjob.'

- That is so ironic.

'He had been arrested before with bomb materials in his trunk. The guy also is a MAJOR PRO LIFE nutjob.'

- That is so ironic.


Just like Bush claiming to be pro life but having the largest number of executions while Governor of Texas. Guess a living, breathing, cognizant human being is not worth as much as a piece of flesh which has yet to develop any consciousness, or a personality, or an ability to function on it's own.

The GOP's beliefs are all fucked up. They slowly rid us of every social service the government offers, and then tell women they can't get an abortion. Uh...

Guess a living, breathing, cognizant human being is not worth as much as a piece of flesh which has yet to develop any consciousness, or a personality, or an ability to function on it's own.

When they've raped/murdered other cognizant human beings you're right their personal worth went out the window.

When they've raped/murdered other cognizant human beings you're right their personal worth went out the window.

You are missing the point, which is that all life is sacred according to the Pro-Life folks. This is what they base their fanaticism on, and yet they will bomb and murder to protect that which is not even a viable human being.

And since you raised the issue of rapists, isn't it interesting that our friends on the right would rather empower the rapist who impregnates a woman via the act of rape than allow the woman to retake control over her own body and life; they prefer that the woman remain a victim for the next 9 months, reliving the rape over and over, than allow her to regain some sense of normalcy and independence from her attacker.

Actually most of the "right" is for allowing abortion in the case or rape/incest/forced pregnancy or if the mother's life is in danger. Your statement is about as generalized as me saying that everyone on the left is for killing every baby while still in the womb.

Actually most of the "right" is for allowing abortion in the case or rape/incest/forced pregnancy or if the mother's life is in danger. Your statement is about as generalized as me saying that everyone on the left is for killing every baby while still in the womb.


Where are these people? Are they in a position of writing legislation? They never show up when the microphones are being handed out, but those like Michele (gimme a hug, Bushie) Bachman in Congress who want to apply the abortion litmus test to everything possible are adamant that absolutely no abortions should ever be performed.

Just like most of the people on the left and the right we're 'moderate' so our voices get drowned out by the retards of both sides

So much for asking for a link to these quotes =\

The true irony is that some of Dr. Tiller's most ardent and greatful supporters were themselves evangelicals who had to suffer the ultimate rubber/road test of their beliefs; a very much wanted pregnancy wherin the fetus was too grossly deformed to live to term or with any quality of life and they, after much soul searching, realized that the path to least suffering went through Dr. Tiller's care. A fair number of his patients have spoken up in recent days about their experiences to try to make people understand why physicians like Dr. Tiller were/are doing important and necessary work, but here is a link to a post from a physician who referred two patients to him who were in that unfortunate situation:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/6/1/737587/-A-Doctors-StoryWhy-I-and-my-patients-will-miss-Dr.-Tiller

This was unquestionably an act of terrorism, involving years of stalking and both tacit and active support from Operation Rescue and other other 'pro-life' organizations - and if what Dr. Tiller, and the families who needed his services have been put through in recent years, doesn't *define* what 'terrorism' is, then I don't know what does. Balkinization has raised the issue, however, that if this *was* terrorism, how should we go about treating our 'domestic' terrorists with regard to what protections/rights they should be given under the law?

Granted, part of me is all for Guantanamo-like conditions for people like this, but it does raise an interesting question.

Regards,
Nydia

Where is jedd's post regarding the 'terrorist' act of the killing of two soldiers outside a recruiting station in Little Rock, Ark. on Monday? The assailant, Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad, acted alone.

Sorry Fild, heres a re-link
www.armyofgod.com/POClist

or rather just copy and paste as i am bieng a moron with the linky thing atm.

That link didn't work for me, but just doing their homepage brought up this vile screen:

http://www.armyofgod.com/

Where is jedd's post regarding the 'terrorist' act of the killing of two soldiers outside a recruiting station in Little Rock, Ark. on Monday? The assailant, Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad, acted alone.

Muslim convert, and muslim terrorism is old news, I would post about it, but I believe someone already did.

But you can have one of these instead...

Merciful storekeeper changes robber's mind, religion
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/06/02/new.york.robber.mercy/index.html

http://www.dailykostv.com/w/001808/

Obviously a little leftist (hah!), but an interesting take.

There is too much hate in the world. There is too much hate on these boards. People constantly go out of their way to piss each other off for no reason but to piss each other off. Would be a much better place to live if everyone would treat each other as they "Should" treat their own mother. Notice the word "Should".

:devil

STFU Mom

There is too much hate in the world.

:devil


Hopefully, there was a wide viewing base for tonight's Dateline with Ann Curry in Iran; it could help dispel maybe a little bit of the animosity.

There is too much hate in the world. There is too much hate on these boards. People constantly go out of their way to piss each other off for no reason but to piss each other off. Would be a much better place to live if everyone would treat each other as they "Should" treat their own mother. Notice the word "Should".

:devil

Lets start the loving Trikki, I'll be right over. ;)

Lets start the loving Trikki, I'll be right over. ;)

I don't have the time to teach you anything Chan. ;)

:devil

I don't have the time to teach you anything Chan. ;)

:devil

You won't need much time...10-12 seconds at the most.