Its that time of year again where we see the arguments over whether to call it Christmas or The Holiday Season.

Reading different articles at my favorite news sources CNN, The NY Times, Fox News I've noticed that the Bush administration, although big on talking the talk with the ultra conservative christians have bowed to the pressure and have noted everything Christmas as Holiday.

I myself was raised catholic, but I don't practice the faith in any way shape or form (except there are certain times of the day when someone who works for me does something so amazing that I am often heard uttering such things as Jesus Christ or Holy Shit so in my small way I do speak with some religious reference on things) In a way I understand what the goal is behind calling it "The Holiday Season", but having a holiday party at the Whitehouse instead of a Christmas party does not make much sense in light of the fact that they directly honor such religious based observances such as Ramadan and Chanakuh.

Do you think that we will see a bit less secular approach to Christmas and give it the same acknowledgement that we give the other holidays? Or, will those of us who celebrate Christmas become an archaic segment of society?

This "war on Christmas" is an invention, much like the "war on people of faith" that spawned the Justice Sunday far right whackathons. With Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Years bundled into a 6 week period, "Happy Holidays" just makes sense, no Hannukah or Kwanzaa necessary. It's a "holiday season" for just this reason; Christmas is simply a part of it (and one that's celebrated specifically on that day).

Did Bush "bow to pressure" or did he just use a sensible but not Bill O'Reilly approved common phrase for the season? Given that Fox (and NewsMax) refer to the "holidays" on their own paperwork/invitiations for celebration, the bloviating on this topic is only there to spur further divisiveness during a season and at a time when we should strive for cohesion.

There are like 100 people who are pissed about this. The rest of it is just blog entries etc. referring to those 100 people.

Well, lets see, Thanksgiving, Christmas, Hanukah, Ramandan, Kwanza (sp?) and probabaly some other religious holidays all fall in about the same month time frame. Say even maybe the same ... season? So just saying Holiday Season rather than Christmas makes sense.

I like to think of it as the Retail Season, myself. ;)

Well, lets see, Thanksgiving, Christmas, Hanukah, Ramandan, Kwanza (sp?) and probabaly some other religious holidays all fall in about the same month time frame. Say even maybe the same ... season? So just saying Holiday Season rather than Christmas makes sense.

My point is this: The government and business both will directly address the other celebrated holidays by name. They will have such things as a Ramadan feast at the Whitehouse, or have a Chanukah celebration but when it comes to Christmas it is suddenly called "Holiday". Such as the Holiday tree, but there is not a "Holiday Menorah" or a "Feast of the Holiday" signifying Ramadan.

Its quite clear that the holiday season is called as such to make it easier by placing a "blanket" over all of it. The question I was contemplating was: Can we at least call Christmas...Christmas. A tree that is decorated is a Christmas tree, a Menorah is a Menorah...I haven't heard anyone call it the "Holiday Candelabra".

Just so everyone knows...I'm not a fan of Bill O'Reilly or of Pat Robertson as retarded as their rantings are, do they have at least a remote point here?

But there are people protesting against the term "Holiday Party" within the workplace to the extent that companies are being advised by their attorneys to call it a mandatory meeting to protect against discrimination lawsuits since there are some people that share no religist beliefs and therefore it's not considered a holiday season or party to them. I think it would be acceptable to be politically correct in a work enviorment to go along with the mandatory meeting idea to be on the safe side. How do you feel about that?

But there are people protesting against the term "Holiday Party" within the workplace to the extent that companies are being advised by their attorneys to call it a mandatory meeting to protect against discrimination lawsuits since there are some people that share no religist beliefs and therefore it's not considered a holiday season or party to them. I think it would be acceptable to be politically correct in a work enviorment to go along with the mandatory meeting idea to be on the safe side. How do you feel about that?

I feel all squishy inside.

I'm offended by their being offended at me trying not to offend anyone and I think we should sue the offending party....

Fuck em, they have rights so do I, we made a compromise deal with it.

I'm offended by their being offended at me trying not to offend anyone and I think we should sue the offending party....

Fuck em, they have rights so do I, we made a compromise deal with it.

Well the compromise should be that Government, Public Schools and employers should not promote any form of personal beliefs whatsoever! A seperation between religion and state must be upheld in this country. Everyone has the right to call it whatever they want after work, school and politics but not during for societies sake.

We're missing more important holidays here... Happy Pearl Harbor Day (http://www.bright.net/~jimsjems/pharbor.html)!

I actually hand-write my Christmas cards, and tailor the greeting to the individual as appropriate. I have a lot of "anti-religious" friends who are actually the ones offended with Christ's involvement with the assigned day of celebration of His birth. They receive Happy Holidays, Season's Greetings, Happy Winter Solstice, Happy Capitalism Season, Happy Pagan Folklore Celebration Day....

My family and friends (religious) receive Merry Christmas, Blessings,...cookies!

My six yr old son's Winter Musical program includes favorites such as the Cha-Cha slide and Grandma got run over by a Reindeer. If we can celebrate Santa,....

but when it comes to Christmas it is suddenly called "Holiday". Such as the Holiday tree, but there is not a "Holiday Menorah" or a "Feast of the Holiday" signifying Ramadan.

It is all the Christian Puppet Master's work. They don't want to tip their hand and display their control too openly!

Ahem, ok, I'll be serious now.

Happy Holydays... errr, sorry, Holidays seems to be a perfectly acceptable wish during this time period, since there is just so much happening during this time of year.

I have a theory that there is often a pendulum effect to change. To start it, some "thing" outrages a nation or is marked as unfair. Then, a huge swing takes place that moves the issue a little too in the direction of :fairness". After it is clear that the changes might have been a bit large or heavy handed, then the pendulum swings back perhaps a little to far to the other side as another crowd of people get all angsty about the first batch of changes. After a few hundred years, the issue starts to swing closer and closer to the middle (where it should be). Yeah, that whole thing made sense.

Anyhow, as this country becomes more openly multi-faceted, this kind of crap is going to happen. This year it is "Happy Holidays," and in 5 years an outraged Christian movement might put "Merry Christ's Mass" back onto the map. Maybe we'll reach a point where nobody really *cares* what people are calling this time of year and just hopes everyone has a pleasant time of it.

Well the compromise should be that Government, Public Schools and employers should not promote any form of personal beliefs whatsoever! A seperation between religion and state must be upheld in this country. Everyone has the right to call it whatever they want after work, school and politics but not during for societies sake.

So now, me, being christian/muslim/jewish/african (Kwanza)/whatever the hell else; have to treat it like I would if I were atheist, arguably a religeon in it's own right. Demanding that I shit-can my celebrations completely in any sort of public display is just as much an infringement on my rights as it would be for someone to force you to celebrate it.

Get Bent

Oh and Merry Fucking Christmas!

If Congress would put some stipulations on compensation for attorney legal fees, these bullshit lawsuits that people keep filing because they are "offended" by something that was going on before they arrived would be curtailed.

For several hundred years in this country, Christmas was celebrated by the majority of the populace; for the most part, the celebration of the Jewish Holidays was shown respect as well. Now, because we have so many different people from so many different cultures and countrys moving into OUR country, we are being told to change centuries of tradition to accomodate them and not offend their sensibilities.

I am sorry, but I say SCREW THAT!

I have had it with everyone saying things must change to be accomodating. I am old school I guess, and believe if you go to somone else's house, you accept the way they run their household, or you leave it.
I try to keep a moderate position on most issues, but I am tired of my country being turned upside down to placate these wusses that persist in attempting to force their way of viewing the world on the rest of us.

Our national language is English, our Christian December holiday is Christmas, and if you come from another country and want to speak your language and celebrate your own religious holiday, that is ok; just learn English to use on the job and when communicating with other Americans, and don't try to force your religious ideas on others. You came here to be part of what we have. The door swings both ways.

Sorry for the rant, but this subject has been too much in the face lately, and I am fed up with it.

Our national language is English, our Christian December holiday is Christmas, and if you come from another country and want to speak your language and celebrate your own religious holiday, that is ok; just learn English to use on the job and when communicating with other Americans, and don't try to force your religious ideas on others. You came here to be part of what we have. The door swings both ways.

I used bold to correct a glaring miss information. We have no nationally recognized language here in the US. Its what ever the majority want to speak...could change to hmm our buddies in the south. Better brush up on that Español. (http://cnnenespanol.com/)

Big points for Ibudin, don't let that one slip by. What's the current projection on when Spanish is supposed to be the dominant language? It is a spoken by a subgroup growing faster than non-Spanish speaking groups.

As far as Christmas goes, I like the practical, stodgy approach. The schools take two weeks off because of Christmas. You can call it whatever you want but the break is taken because of Christmas. Just like we take Good Friday off for Easter, and Yom Kippur off for...Yom Kippur...and so forth. Just call it what it is. The funny thing is the same people who don't want it called Christmas are the same folks who sure don't mind taking the time off anyway. It's strange how something that belongs to a majority group suddenly becomes bad, but we'll be sure to celebrate all of the minority holidays.

As far as it being a religious holiday - I know lots of non-Christian Americans who celebrate Christmas. I'm not sure to what extent Christians can claim it as their own holiday anymore. I mean, sure...it has a very special meaning to them, but it's spread so far into commercialism and pop culture that I actually feel offended when someone corrects me on saying Merry Christmas outside of a religious circle.

Then again, I've taken to saying Merry Christmas to pick the above fight too...so....I'm really not much for this season.

I used bold to correct a glaring miss information. We have no nationally recognized language here in the US. Its what ever the majority want to speak...could change to hmm our buddies in the south. Better brush up on that Español. (http://cnnenespanol.com/)

We also have no national religion....BUT, I was discussing what several hundred years of common practice in this country has been, and we speak our Americanized version of the English language in this country. And we have been a predominantly Christian populace as well. (At least, people wanted to be Christian at gift giving/receiving time)

I wish they would put it to the citizens to vote on a nationally standardized language.

I wish they would put it to the citizens to vote on a nationally standardized language.It's a good argument for another thread, but I don't think it would work. Non-English speaking populations are already too large, among citizens. That and the fact that such an action would disenfranchise a large portion of the population.

Its so fucking stupid.

The next conservative who declares a war on something that isnt even close to a war, or battle or skirmish or dust up gets a hot poker up the ass.... sideways.

WHO.. GIVES... A... FUCK.

HELLO... Americans are dying in Iraq for reasons nobody is really sure about and people are allowing themselves to be distracted by the word choice of a holiday that in truth is a work of fiction in itself.
Christmas is the bastardized festival created by the Roman Empire when it converted to Christianity. One of its largest and oldest traditions was the festival of Winter Solistace.
Saturnalia

The winter solstice is 25 December in the ancient Roman astronomical calendar.

Roman festival to the ancient god, Saturn. In Ancient Rome, the mythical age of Saturn's kingship was a golden age of happiness for all men, without theft or servitude, and without private property. Saturn, dethroned by his son Jupiter, had joined Janus as ruler in Italy, but when his time as earthly king was up, he disappeared. "It is said that to this day He lies in a magic sleep on a secret island near Britain, and at some future time ... He will return to inaugurate another Golden Age."

The people gave themselves up to wild joy. They feasted, they gave gifts, they decorated their homes with greenery. The usual order of the year was suspended: grudges and quarrels forgotten; wars interrupted or postponed. Businesses, courts, schools closed. Rich and poor were equal, slaves were served by masters, children headed the family. Cross-dressing and masquerades, merriment of all kinds prevailed. A mock king -- the Lord of Misrule -- was crowned. Candles and lamps chased away the spirits of darkness.

So lets all at least be intellectually honest here and wish each other "Io Saturnalia!"

For those who have read Dan Brown's "Davinci Code", there is a very nicely detailed explanation of the manner in which the church incorporated pagan rituals into it's practices to make it more appealing to potential converts, and this includes the celebration we now know as Christmas.

I am not part of the ridiculous John(the blow-dried ferret) Gibson's fight about his alleged war on Christmas. I am just tired of all the changes that have been forced on folks over the past two decades in this country in the name of being accomodating to the newcomers, and not offending anyone.

This so-called war on Christmas that a few Fox pseudo-journalists are getting some notoriety over is a joke, and is for the most part as much a blatant intrusion on folks as the opposite side of the spectrum with the atheists and other assorted religions that complain about Christmas symbolism being forced upon them.

As a mail carrier, I am getting a lot of Merry Christmas' and Happy Holidays wishes from folks from day to day. If I know them, and their religious practices, I say Merry Christmas. If I am unsure, or know they are of a different faith, I wish them happy holidays. It is no big deal.

BUT, I still get upset at folks trying to force a change on traditions I grew up with, just to make others adapt to their preferences. What can I say....I am an old fart.:p

It's a good argument for another thread, but I don't think it would work. Non-English speaking populations are already too large, among citizens. That and the fact that such an action would disenfranchise a large portion of the population.

Not to mention anyone who didn't speak the winning language would probably file suit claiming discrimination.

Get...a...life.

If you have nothing better to do than bitch over what to call Christmas... ugh.

This is why guns are legal. :devil

Merry Christmas everyone!

The spreading of spanish is countered by the much greater spreading of English in non-US regions.

English has slowly been transforming over the years into the business language of choice in the world, with many countries requiring education in it to near the same level of thier natural language.
(Like it being much easier to find a chinese man fluent in english, vs a chinese man fluent in chinese).

Essentially even if the USA got over-taken by spanish, they'd all have to learn English anyways just to deal with *foreign* countries.

Latin and Romance based languages have traditionally been very poor in adoption, and have been very slowly dying since the last great conquests of the french/spanish civalizations hundreds of years ago.

The male/feminism is almost entirely to blame, it creates an unesseccary doubling of basic vocabulary and is unwieldly even for naturalized users.

English is a very versatile adaptive language that has held up surprisingly well over time, to the point where its really hard to say its even the same language spoken only 100 years ago, it adapts, adjusts, and changes at a lightning pace.

Its more likely english would absorb spanish into it's lexicon rather then spanish stamping out english in the US.
(You already see this with alot of Mexican-Americans or people living in spanish dominated areas, who often will mix spanish and english in the same sentance).

And I've stepped wayyy off topic.
In summary: English for the win.

(You already see this with alot of Mexican-Americans or people living in spanish dominated areas, who often will mix spanish and english in the same sentance).
It's called Spanglish where I come from and I can remember hearing it in it's earliest stages on Spanish TV comercials when I was a kid.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Spanish merge into a completely English form, eventually. Hell, there's a lot of English words that have Spanish root words already.

At any rate, most Spanish people celebrate Christmas. So...

¡Feliz Navidad!

I have had it with everyone saying things must change to be accomodating. I am old school I guess, and believe if you go to somone else's house, you accept the way they run their household, or you leave it.

Except that when you emigrate to the US, it becomes your house as well. People aren't visiting, they're moving in and paying rent.

But the argument presumes that Christmas is no longer recognized, when it clearly is, along with other religious celebrations, none of which receive the day off (except perhaps locally). Again, one can refer to the end of November through January 1st as the holiday season without being concerned with Hannukah, Kwanzaa, and anything else. The alleged affront to tradition is as imaginary as the Gibson/O'Reilly "war on Christmas."

My biggest kvetch will come when they take the Holidays out of the schools entirely.

Let the children be children dammit. Stop trying to make their lives political. Hell let them laugh and wonder and smile for a few more years before we make their lil lives hateful/angst ridden with all things political.

Merry Xmas, Happy Holidays, Feliz Navidad, Happy Hanakah/kwanza.

However you slice it, remember we're celebrating life more than anythingelse.

Worry bout the small shit afterwards please.

Fandros

Let the children be children dammit. Stop trying to make their lives political. Hell let them laugh and wonder and smile for a few more years before we make their lil lives hateful/angst ridden with all things political.
Nicely stated!

Here's something to chew on. Santa...Santa...Santa (http://www.weebls-stuff.com/testy/AdventCalendar/day24.html)

Grrr...Therapy was just starting to work.