It appears that the the professional hatemongers' seeds have begun to bear their poisonous fruit. Gabrielle Giffords, a third term House member and staunch advocate both of health care reform and NASA funding, who appeared on Sarah Palin's 'Take back the 20' list of House members who voted for Obama's health care plan up for re-election last year (complete with a charming map with crosshairs on it), and whose campaign opponent (Jesse Kelly) hosted events wherein they could shoot targets bearing her face with an M-16, was shot in the head at point blank range in a Safeway parking lot while hosting her first "Congress on your Corner" event there this morning. The gunman apparently emptied his Glock at the scene (which was recovered), also hitting a federal judge and at least five other people.

Normally, I wouldn't be so quick to assume that this was brownshirt-inspired, but given how ugly the campaign was (I offer the following for your consideration):

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/1294/aakelly048c.png

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/internetz/sarahpac_full.jpg

it's not an unreasonable conclusion to make. When asked if she 'had any enemies' by The New York Post today, her 75-year old father replied: "Yeah. The whole Tea Party".

Also, in stunning timing, AZ Governor Jan Brewer signed the states 'no permit required' concealed carry bill into law today (takes effect in 60 days), the third such state to do so. I'll leave it up for discussion what folks think of such laws in light of the inciting to violence currently being spewed by Beck, Limbaugh, Palin, et al, but given the likely Venn diagram intersection size of enthusiastic 'home defense' folks, Tea Partiers, and the mentally unstable (no offense to the responsible gun advocates here, but let's call a spade a spade), I can't say that this bodes well for the future safety of folks who happen to be on the wingnut 'hit list'.

Finally, Sarah Palin's office has already issued a statement on the shooting:


My sincere condolences are offered to the family of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and the other victims of today's tragic shooting in Arizona.

On behalf of Todd and my family, we all pray for the victims and their families, and for peace and justice."


I really don't know what else to say here, so I'll leave it at that. I hope that Rupert Murdoch sleeps badly tonight, but I somehow doubt it.

Regards,
Nydia

Video link (from March 2010) of Congresswoman Giffords from MSNBC after her office was vandalized the night after the Health Care Bill vote and death threats received:
http://kateoplis.tumblr.com/post/2655554409/msnbc-talks-to-rep-gabrielle-gifford-about-the

She is very well spoken and reasonable about it, but the way in which her apologist interviewers bend over backwards trying to spin her expressed concern about incitement to violence in the Tea Party as Democrats painting Republicans as crazies in the name of 'balanced reporting' is disgusting to behold.

I've been somewhat amazed at how quickly everyone jumped to the conclusion that this is politically driven. It definitely may have been, but it's absurdly hypocritical to disdain the Tea Party crazies' slant and then immediately jump in the fray with escalating rhetoric of your own.

Maybe I'm too hopeful that he was a regular variety crazy, not political, but I still wish we could avoid ratcheting another notch toward civil war until we at least know it's justified.

Also, if laws will prevent criminals from using guns to kill people, they should just make murder illegal. Oh, wait...

Freedom of Speech should only be free until it causes people to take up arms to kill innocent people.. Fox News should be shut down

I'm going with regular variety crazy. "Mainly loner very philosophical" as a classmate said:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40980334/

Lots of pseudointellectual rambling. He rants about a lack of literacy, yet misuses a number of words himself. (What is "conscience dreaming"?) He does have a deep distrust of the government, but that is about the only thing I see in common with the Tea Party, or any mainstream political group for that matter.

I think you're missing the slant of my post; I used the words 'brownshirt inspired' and 'venn diagram', as opposed to 'Tea Party ordered hit' to imply that this person likely already *was* a few cards shy of a deck and that the various *highly* inflammatory ravings which can be constantly heard (and I'm force-fed them every time I go home to see my parents) over the Arizona airwaves may have pushed him over the edge.

One should keep in mind that approximately 5% of adult people in the US are mentally ill enough that it interferes with their ability to lead a normal life (and I'm not talking the hordes of mildly neurotic SSRI pushees, but actual borderline personality, schizophrenia, severe bipolar, etc) and yes, I think the combination of improperly cared for (thank you Ronnie for dismantling the mental health apparatus) mentally ill people, constant exposure (if partially self-selected) to hate speech, and readily available concealable firearms (and yes, I know the mentally ill aren't supposed to be able to buy handguns, but in practice it's not tough to get one at all in much of the country) is a dangerous and irresponsible (by any civilized society's measure) mixture. See: abortion provider assassinations carried out by individuals who were unstable to begin with and whipped into a frenzy via the hate speech of Randall Terry, etc.

The point of my post, if there was one, was to make a point that we need to take this type of hate speech, and actual threats or incitement to violence made against people by members of the media and others, as seriously as we would, to paraphrase Oliver Wendall Holmes, individuals who falsely shout Fire! in a crowded theatre and cause a riot; in effect, that's what some of these folks are doing (Obamacare is not going to cause the hounds of hell to be unleashed upon the earth, no matter what you think of it, etc). It is one thing to decry a person's *policies*, or even, within certain legal limits, their character; and another entirely to shoot them in effigy at a campaign event or put them on a 'hit list' as the Operation Rescue folks did. The fact that Ms. Giffords politely brought up her concerns about this issue (of hate speech potentially producing consequences after she and her office were targeted) 9 months before she was shot *and the media not only bent over backwards to justify such behavior but tried to shift blame to her*, demonstrates just how devoid of conscience and anything resembling human reasoning, not to mention sense of Americans as a community, the whored out media and shock-doctrined masses have become.

Just in from a long evening on the road, but regardless of this man's mental state I think there needs to be some standard of accountability levied against those who would use the media to incite, or even insinuate, the use of violence against another human being.

Regards,
Nydia

You weren't pointing fingers directly at the Tea Party crazies? Bullshit:

it's not an unreasonable conclusion to make. When asked if she 'had any enemies' by The New York Post today, her 75-year old father replied: "Yeah. The whole Tea Party".

You knew exactly what implication you were making there, as did half the damn Internet today. At its core, your new argument about blaming the media sounds like something we'd hear from Jack Thompson. No, it absolutely isn't anyone's fault other than Jared Loughner's.

You people need to take the crazy back down a notch and make this about something positive like remembering a good, moderate Congresswoman or helping the victims, not participating in further escalation. As a moderate, I'm sure the last thing Giffords would want is further polarization and escalation over this.

I wasn't going to dignify this response with a reply, but on second thought, it'd be an injustice to let 'you crazies' stand, and I refuse to be tarred by 'the internets' brush, as I haven't been online since early this afternoon and have no idea what has been floating around since then in any case, nor am I 'the internets'. I did not, anywhere in my post (the quote you excerpted was the second half of a qualified sentence), assign specific blame to the Tea Party or suggest that this was anything resembling an *organized* attack; but I also believe it's a serious and legitimate concern that the mainstream media has turned a blind eye to or justified hate speech, and in some cases is deliberately broadcasting it. As Congresswoman Giffords said in the MSNBC interview, these actions have potential consequences.

The opinion quoted by her grieved father today is not my own, nor did I claim it as such - I included it as an indication of just how hateful Tea Party members had become *towards her* and more significantly how pervasive and 'accepted' the idea of hate speech has become that a whole movement has become associated (to be sure unjustifiably in many cases, including my own father, but I sat through a health care Town Hall meeting that threatened to become a riot due solely to the actions of some bussed in Tea Partiers last year) with it.

I and others will certainly remember Congresswoman Giffords fondly this weekend (she was an extremely kind and likeable person, as well as being a dedicated advocate), but I don't think it's 'crazy' to suggest that there's a problem, or multiple problems, with some of what is passing for 'free speech' here that would be labelled 'terrorist threats' elsewhere, or even here were it being made by others politically inexpedient, and that this should be carefully looked at via the FCC and the courts. Believe me, I don't take the issues of free speech or freedom to bear arms lightly, and have watched with horror as we have prosecuted *whistleblowers* under espionage and terrorism acts, and continue unreasonable and unending detention, but doesn't the fact that we *do* those things in the absence of actual threat add to the hypocrisy with regard to what gets censored/censured in this country... and what doesn't or is tacitly condoned, and why?

You may not like it, but the people posting things like your original post here are absolutely the Tea Party crazies' counterpart that allows them to exist in the first place. You're not simple enough to get away with posting things like that Sarah PAC map and then pretend that you didn't understand what you were posting.

Ohhhhh you got daddy angry, Nydia. LOL.

Going to split the difference here and throw in for...yes the shooter was very troubled and might have well done something totally crazy in a different fashion but the political bent can't be ignored either. Vague as it might be and even if only coincidence, some Tea Party rhetoric might jive with this person's views and nut bags have a habit of latching on to topics that most people tend to not escalate past friendly conversation. Perhaps there was influence or perhaps not. We certainly will be the last to ever find out. Its purely circumstantial so even if this was something completely isolated from the Red vs. Blue, its still going to be handled as such. No doubt about it.

So get pissed off all you want, Sanchek, but we are now talking about wasted effort because it doesn't matter. Its entirely too late now anyway. Throw your hands up and walk away is my best advice to you. You might know better but most people do not and unfortunately you can't do either Jack or Shit about it because the majority of the people are not listening anyway.

It's likely premature to assign some sort of accessory blame to various wingnuts, however discussing the overall tone of their broadcast insanity is not, in my mind, unreasonable given the shooter's list of grievances are pretty darn close to what you hear from the AM radio kooks on a daily basis, and frequently pushed into the mainstream by Fox and Friends picking up on random tripe from Alex Jones.

Inundating three entire generations now with barely coherent rants about how socialists want to prevent Jesus from making you rich on a gold standard that will fund blowing up all the Ay-rabs is apparently paying dividends in that their rhetoric was not condemned immediately, instead being allowed to fester for months until we have the fun of deciding whether or not some specific mental patient picked AM 940 The Patriot or AM 910 Commie4Life as his go-to source of lunacy prior to the shooting.

We're supposed to have editors for these things so some adult is standing between Kookie the Talking Head and a mic, not piping the shrillest voices into the amplifier. Instead they're keeping it classy by insinuating the shooter went after Gifford because she broke with Pelosi on voting, making him a radical lefty. There is no shame at all in the self serving viciousness.

I tend to agree that most of today's Fox/AM/Teabag rhetoric is harmful, as is the hyperbolic anti-Fox/AM/Tea knee-jerk that Nydia posted and what was immediately popping up on Twitter/Facebook/Reddit/HuffPo yesterday. At the same time, stretching the facts far and thin enough to blame Fox/radio for the actions of a lunatic is just not sensible. That's exactly the kind of nonsense logic we've spent most of our lives laughing at, as older generations blame comic books, Beavis and Butthead, video games, and the Internet for violent crimes amongst the younger generations.

Ultimately, the main thing Loughner's YouTube videos shared with the Fox/AM/Teabag talking points was mention of a distrust for government, which comprised a very small fraction of the whole diatribe. The videos were paranoid, incoherent, and not recognizable as mainstream Tea-o-con inspired. They mostly contained deductive proofs that arbitrarily linked random things together in an attempt to make the point seem logical (not unlike the reasoning behind the Palin = killer talk yesterday).

As more information comes out, I'm reading that he had direct ties to a white power group (http://www.amren.com/). If so, that's where his influence came from, not Fox or AM radio.

Yay for Arizona, again. So glad we're back in the news.

At the bare minimum, maybe this will raise awareness of the rhetoric being posted on politicians websites. Malkin had a response, and as I skimmed through her posts she sounds like a ranting high schooler. Palin and Co. have been pushing the limits of civilized conduct for several years now. Regardless of whether or not it was directly linked to this shooter, how are those pictures deemed appropriate for government officials? The libs are as guilty as the Fox crew for these types of things, and this might serve as a wakeup call to finally stop this crap and get back to, oh I don't know, running the country.

They mostly contained deductive proofs that arbitrarily linked random things together in an attempt to make the point seem logical.
Wait - he's Glenn Beck??

Wait - he's Glenn Beck??

I was thinking about making a Glenn Beck joke as I was writing that.

From the US vs. Loughner complaint (http://www.scribd.com/doc/46568553/Loughner-Complaint):

Some of the evidence seized from that location included a letter in a safe, addressed to "Mr. Jared Loughney" ... blah blah ... dated August 30, 2007, thanking him for attending a "Congress on your Corner" event.

If he was already developing this angst in 2007, that was a year before just about anyone in Arizona had ever heard of Palin, much less been influenced by her. Certainly, it was far before the Tea Party existed or had any influence.

Every bit of information that trickles out only continues to weaken the extremist conclusion that so many were jumping to on Saturday.

My hope is that good could still come from this. Hopefully, the people instantly assuming a partisan connection will feel rightfully shamed for having acted with such poor judgement, and will consequently take a step back with the inflammatory rhetoric. Similarly, giving Fox and Friends a glimpse of the backlash they'd be facing had this really been linked to their crazy might put a little fear of <deity> into them and encourage them to tone it down.

I know, probably wishful thinking.

Hi guys!!!

He killed a 9 year old, that fucker should be excuted NOW.

I've come to view rotting in prison for life as a more harsh punishment than execution. (After all, if execution were that much worse, why do we have to place prisoners on suicide watch?)

I've come to view rotting in prison for life as a more harsh punishment than execution.

Agreed.

Bingo: http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/ez2ds/so_what_was_the_point_of_the_rally_to_restore/

To speak to at least part of the point Nydia was making,

The hate speech that is being spread on *both* sides is getting out of hand and the shock value that it brings makes rating go up on all channels of media and is a cycle that I am not sure can ever be fixed.

Also, I also feel it is completely irresponsible of ANY political group to have rally's that involve shooting targets baring the face of your opponent, even more so in today’s volatile society. If a group of Muslims were having a political rally outraged at Health Care Reform and they had targets of Obama and were shooting at them, there would be outrage from every avenue and would even warrant an investigation by at least one alphabet organization, so why should it be tolerated in any instance?

This guy is nuts, seen enough on the news to say... He was crazier than any tea bagger.

While I agree with Nydia on the disgustingly violent hyperbole of the Tea Party nutters (I hope they're all feeling thoroughly revolted at themselves, as well as fucking guilty), this guy does actually just seem bonkers. He does indeed need to rot in prison.

He is batshit insane... Another extreme leftist sociopath ala Oswald and Hinkley....

He is batshit insane... Another extreme leftist sociopath ala Oswald and Hinkley....

I love how Liberals are changed by the right to be the problem no matter what.

Either we are hippy pacifists that want to surrender to terrorism, or we are Crazy innocent murdering gun toting nutbags... You have to choose 1!

Awww what Jedd? I can't jump on the partisan name calling band wagon with the liberals? How typically Hypocritical of you all... It's fine for the mass leftist media to go insane using this tragedy as a "crisis you can't let go to waste" while if a conservative says anything..why...how evil we are. Typical. The fact is this guy was insane... polotics has nothing to do with it... just insanity. By the way all his classmates according to the healines suggested he was extremely left in his views in their classes until he was booted for being a nutter....

Didn't you get the memo? Since Fox has the dominant market share and Air America nosedived, you can't really get upset about the mass liberal media.

Anyone who doesn't realize both parties engage in the exact same nonsense is fooling themselves. Regrettably, a violent act that cost several human lives and caused other leaders to become concerned for their safety has followed the same path as so many other actual issues - it's already fallen into partisan bickering. I think both parties were just holding their breath waiting to see which part of the political spectrum this guy would fall into. Forget the congresswoman, the judge, bystanders, 9 year old girl....

By the way all his classmates according to the healines suggested he was extremely left in his views in their classes until he was booted for being a nutter....

There is no left in the US they could possibly be comparing him to, so this is basically 100% spin and damage control from the AM radio hate crowd, who cynically knew they were one Dittohead bumpersticker away from a ton of trouble. Which is absolutely sick. You can't scream about a "liberal media" when the media is predominantly run by the people screaming about how it's the liberal media.

Are you sure? Erin was telling me that he was apparently very liberal, and I'm not convinced she even knows how to access the AM band on her radio; she's pretty much just a local echo of Rachel Maddow with Bill Maher undertones.

You mean the same meme that describe the sheriff


"It's wrong for the taxpayers in this country to spend the millions and millions and millions of dollars that we do catering" to illegal immigrants, he was quoted this week in The New York Times as saying.

is some some pinko who hates them? This was my point, the reactionary haters control the dialogue so much here that most people who have extreme difficulty even describing what "left" or "socialism" meant, much less differentiating between say, communism and trade unions, socialism and the National Socialists of 1930s Germany.

The shooter likely didn't have any specific, coherent political ideology. But the talking heads know who among them them have been saying things like "shoot the other side!" since 2008, and they're spinning it so hard even your normal tea and turtleneck NPR crowd get caught up.


Mr. Gutierrez said his friend had become obsessed with the meaning of dreams and their importance. He talked about reading Friedrich Nietzsche’s book “The Will To Power” and embraced ideas about the corrosive, destructive effects of nihilism — a belief in nothing. And every day, his friend said, Mr. Loughner would get up and write in his dream journal, recording the world he experienced in sleep and its possible meanings.

Quote, yes, Nietzsche, the go-to-guy for every social justice hippy looking to pad her bookshelf. Also, apparently the people in question don't actually know what nihilism is. For those keeping score from home, Nietzsche was not a nihilist, he consider nihilism, in its 19th century context, as a consequence of the destruction of morality or ideology in the then current philosophical direction. He did not think it was a positive consequence.

Speaking of nihilism, herr Nietzsche would have had a god-damn field day with the modern "news," which is about as nihilistic as it can possibly be while conveying any information at all.

polotics has nothing to do with it... just insanity

Spelling aside you might be correct. but the truth is we will probably never know for sure exactly what type of rhetoric was truly influencing this guy!

Paranoid scyzo's tend to obsess on phrasology. guess Racheal maddow needs to stop saying things like second amendment solutions and that if we cant get results at the ballot box we have the bullet box or maybe dont retreat just re-load and instead go to more the right wing talk of how liberals are are like kittens, lovable and just miss guided, or be more like Beck in saying things such as Progressives just need us to be more open to talking and compromise. sadly all the left has is guys like Olberman taking about republicans bieng a cancer that must be cut from the heart of america!

You mean the same meme that describe the sheriff

is some some pinko who hates them? This was my point, the reactionary haters control the dialogue so much here that most people who have extreme difficulty even describing what "left" or "socialism" meant, much less differentiating between say, communism and trade unions, socialism and the National Socialists of 1930s Germany.

The shooter likely didn't have any specific, coherent political ideology. But the talking heads know who among them them have been saying things like "shoot the other side!" since 2008, and they're spinning it so hard even your normal tea and turtleneck NPR crowd get caught up.

Quote, yes, Nietzsche, the go-to-guy for every social justice hippy looking to pad her bookshelf. Also, apparently the people in question don't actually know what nihilism is. For those keeping score from home, Nietzsche was not a nihilist, he consider nihilism, in its 19th century context, as a consequence of the destruction of morality or ideology in the then current philosophical direction. He did not think it was a positive consequence.

Speaking of nihilism, herr Nietzsche would have had a god-damn field day with the modern "news," which is about as nihilistic as it can possibly be while conveying any information at all.

I wish you would step back from that ledge my friend...

While I agree with Nydia on the disgustingly violent hyperbole of the Tea Party nutters (I hope they're all feeling thoroughly revolted at themselves, as well as fucking guilty), this guy does actually just seem bonkers. He does indeed need to rot in prison.
"What Mr. Loughner knows is that he has the full support of a major political party in this country." -Rush Limbaugh

"Journalists and pundits should not manufacture a blood libel that serves only to incite the very hatred and violence they purport to condemn." - Palin (Palin wasn't the first to use the phrase in this situation, though; it's the conservative meme of choice right now)

"The irresponsible assignment of blame to me, Sarah Palin or the TEA Party movement by commentators and elected officials puts all who gather to redress grievances in danger." -Sharron "2nd Amendment Solutions" Angle

"I think anytime you start suppressing freedom of speech, I think it's wrong. I live here and I didn't hear anything [in the 2010 campaign] that concerned me in terms of inciting violence." - local Tea Party leader Allyson Miller, who apparently doesn't think Jesse Kelly's M16 shooting event qualifies

So no, Halo, there isn't much of that going on, some conservatives are distancing themselves from these defensive responses (e.g., Jonah Goldberg and the "blood libel" thing).

This guy was a special kind of crazy. He seems to have been raised by rather isolated, loner parents, which may have influenced his peculiar state. I haven't seen anything to suggest he has coherent enough a world-view to ascribe to him a political philosophy outside of a vague anti-government attitude. Maybe some of the right-wing Tea Partyish violent sloganeering informed his decision to assassinate Congresswoman Giffords, but we're not at a point where we can say (and the kid is just plain messed up anyway).

I don't think Palin's "Democratic targets" poster is any kind of issue; "targeting" political opponents is normal metaphorical rhetoric. There's plenty of Tea Party/Repub crazy from the last election to point to; I guess Palin just stands out more. Still, her (and the rest of the right wing) defensiveness on this point is telling.

The time to change the bed is before you lie in it.

Palin and her pundits are no more responsible for the crazy man's actions than Muslim fundamentalist Ideology is responsible for the actions of the 911 plotters.

:)

Spelling aside you might be correct. but the truth is we will probably never know for sure exactly what type of rhetoric was truly influencing this guy!

Paranoid scyzo's tend to obsess on phrasology. guess Racheal maddow needs to stop saying things like second amendment solutions and that if we cant get results at the ballot box we have the bullet box or maybe dont retreat just re-load and instead go to more the right wing talk of how liberals are are like kittens, lovable and just miss guided, or be more like Beck in saying things such as Progressives just need us to be more open to talking and compromise. sadly all the left has is guys like Olberman taking about republicans bieng a cancer that must be cut from the heart of america!

Yes sorry for spelling errors.. just came off a double shift and was a wee bit tired.....

Is OK Osg was meant to make ya roll your eyes and chuckle a bit as preface to my little rant.

I've been hearing this BS today that since this guy didnt sit and watch Fox news all day there is NO WAY the political rhetoric could have possibly had anything to do with this because his main media outlet was the internet.
Are you freaking kidding me?? if it's a 30 second ad 10 states away or something said on a 30 minute talk show it gets blogged about,linked,e-mailed and discussed a million times over what it would be otherwise. this BS gets more exposure because of the internet not in spite of it! this loon had exposer to the tea party kill the Evul Liberals even if it isnt the main point of his rants and manifesto.

I'm still so angry over this and not because a Congresswoman was shot. more so because a little 9 yo girl whos parents took her to this event because she wanted to learn about how our political process worked lost her life. some lesson huh?

What's good for the goose is good for the gander guess.....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41094534/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

I love their station letters ... KGUN.

LOL I did not notice that... Perfect...

The Congresswoman has been upgraded from critical to serious. Good news, indeed.