Rybit is dead accurate.

We've made some serious errors in this country. Our corporate leaders have become exceptionally myopic. Our politicians have sold us out and our corporations have paid them to do it.

We now allow military weapons and logistics systems to be supplied by foriegn manufacturers and all of this was done mostly by those who screamed patriotism the loudest.

Our politicians kept the masses occupied with opposing gay marriage, flag burning and other, for lack of a better word, nonsensical issues. Plainly and simply we are fucked in many areas of business, manufacturing gone, tech industry...almost gone, pharmaceuticals almost gone, even farming is almost gone.

Just about every self sustaining industry we had has been moved out and the worst part is most of it was funded by taxpayers through corporate welfare. So while we sat and worried about the single mother getting the $500.00 a month welfare check to feed her kid a company like Haliburton was charging $28.00 dollars for every plate of food served to our troops in Iraq while they simply became based in Dubai now avoiding any tax burden on what we paid for. Bear stearns was getting how many billions of dollars to stay afloat and they were stock brokers and now we are about to see a 6-10 billion dollar bailout of Lehman Brothers a company that is well known to force homeowners into a foreclosure.

We have created a country that places some ridiculious over-emphasis on cutting taxes constantly and then we bitch when theres no money to fix a road or run a firehouse. We scream that business will only survive with tax cuts...let me tell you...that is the biggest line of bullshit sold. A business owner can write off the toilet paper they use to wipe their asses with...can you write that off? Can you write off the food you buy at a takeout? Can you write off the coffee you buy? The software you buy? Your TV? DVD's?

All of those and more are all legitimate write-offs for business owners. You want this economy moving...make corporate tax rates go to 50% or 60% and watch the wild spending on things to write off...that's a stimulus package!

/rant off....sorry for the derail.

Rybit is dead accurate.

We've made some serious errors in this country. Our corporate leaders have become exceptionally myopic. Our politicians have sold us out and our corporations have paid them to do it.

We now allow military weapons and logistics systems to be supplied by foriegn manufacturers and all of this was done mostly by those who screamed patriotism the loudest.

Our politicians kept the masses occupied with opposing gay marriage, flag burning and other, for lack of a better word, nonsensical issues. Plainly and simply we are fucked in many areas of business, manufacturing gone, tech industry...almost gone, pharmaceuticals almost gone, even farming is almost gone.

Just about every self sustaining industry we had has been moved out and the worst part is most of it was funded by taxpayers through corporate welfare. So while we sat and worried about the single mother getting the $500.00 a month welfare check to feed her kid a company like Haliburton was charging $28.00 dollars for every plate of food served to our troops in Iraq while they simply became based in Dubai now avoiding any tax burden on what we paid for. Bear stearns was getting how many billions of dollars to stay afloat and they were stock brokers and now we are about to see a 6-10 billion dollar bailout of Lehman Brothers a company that is well known to force homeowners into a foreclosure.

We have created a country that places some ridiculious over-emphasis on cutting taxes constantly and then we bitch when theres no money to fix a road or run a firehouse. We scream that business will only survive with tax cuts...let me tell you...that is the biggest line of bullshit sold. A business owner can write off the toilet paper they use to wipe their asses with...can you write that off? Can you write off the food you buy at a takeout? Can you write off the coffee you buy? The software you buy? Your TV? DVD's?

All of those and more are all legitimate write-offs for business owners. You want this economy moving...make corporate tax rates go to 50% or 60% and watch the wild spending on things to write off...that's a stimulus package!

/rant off....sorry for the derail.

problem is Rover unless their feet are held to some sort of fire the monies collected are by in large wasted. They , the govt, could do so much more with less if they actually were held accountable. Giving them more money will never fix anything.

problem is Rover unless their feet are held to some sort of fire the monies collected are by in large wasted. They , the govt, could do so much more with less if they actually were held accountable. Giving them more money will never fix anything.

You're confusing local with federal governments I think Fandros. Local governments normally are run by regular citizens who live in the communities and can and have done some amazing things. Trenton, NJ took tax money to switch all of their vehicular fleet to hybrids and have paid that off in savings and then some as the gas prices have gone up. Fairfax, VA where I live has hundreds of parks where you can go miniature golfing, regular golfing, swimming, to the batting cages, ride water slides, things you expect at amusement parks ... all of which cost local citizens next to nothing yet bring in profit for the county from outsiders - and are way cheaper than your commercial venues. I could list a few hundred more examples ...

problem is Rover unless their feet are held to some sort of fire the monies collected are by in large wasted. They , the govt, could do so much more with less if they actually were held accountable. Giving them more money will never fix anything.


I think you're misunderstang me, the BS about lower tax rates is just that...BS. My point is that businesses write things off and that is rightfully how it should be, but to allow the write-offs and then lower tax rates is counterproductive to not only the spending on infrastructure but also on the economy.

I pay income taxes pretty much based on what I have not spent in the previous year,if I spend it I don't pay taxes on it...I write it off.

I buy toilet paper...I write it off. I have a pizza delivered I write it off...I pay no taxes or taxes on only part of what I spent on those things. A regular employee pays income tax and then goes and buys the toilet paper and the delivered pizza is what they get after they have paid their taxes.

I have a choice every year...do I hold that money and pay it out to Uncle Sam? Or do I go and buy that new Nikon D3 for $5000.00 or buy that new car for $30,000+ or that New super gygabite computer system and write that off as a business expense thereby stimulating the economy?

I love Nikon cameras and new cars and like everyone else I don't like taxes...so guess what I do? But what I hold at the end should be taxed at a much higher rate than those who don't have the writeoffs I do...that is fair and a good thing for all.

ahhh I did misunderstand, thanks Kel. ;)

ahhh I did misunderstand, thanks Kel. ;)


You are also dead on about the accountability...that in itself is huge but a separate issue.

If you simply raise corporate taxes, under the current rules, it just encourages more large companies to move headquarters overseas (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9406E5DA1539F931A15752C1A9649C8B 63).

If you simply raise corporate taxes, under the current rules, it just encourages more large companies to move headquarters overseas (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9406E5DA1539F931A15752C1A9649C8B 63).

Exactly. The only reason many of these corporations have not left already is the incentives are still strong enough to remain. Remove the tax breaks, and you can bet they are on the first boat out of here.

Thanks to our politicians for constructing such an environment for big business, where the average citizen (referred to as serfs, in another time) are going to lose no matter which way the corporate heads decide to move.

The Republican party of lower taxes and less government intrusion into the lives of Americans, with no little help from the Democrats, have succeeded in setting the stage for America to become a third world country within the next two decades, saddled with debt that our great grandchildren will not be able to pay off. (IMO, of course)

I think it's worth noting that ditching profits to avoid taxation is mostly the purview of smaller, private business, as opposed to (typically larger) public companies. A publicly traded company can't get away with squandering its profits, since quarterly profit increases and shareholder dividends are almost their singular focus.

The big companies that we tend to resent aren't really the biggest offenders in this particular area.

seems too many have bought into the argument that free trade will benefit all involved when in essence all it did was remove the penalties for relocating to offshore locals. I.E. tarriffs and excise taxes.

seems too many have bought into the argument that free trade will benefit all involved when in essence all it did was remove the penalties for relocating to offshore locals. I.E. tarriffs and excise taxes.

That's the real issue with moving overseas, it's the incentives way beyond taxes that encourage it. I understand about the fortune 500 moving offshore thing but the problem is that this tax crap is not sold that we must worry that Haliburton and its top 100 white colar jobs are moving to Dubai, it's sold to the public that everyone suffers...everyone who works and every small to mid size business and that is just plainly false.

The list of privately held companies in the US dwarfs the list of those traded on the stock exchanges and it dwarfs their spending power.

The tax crap is sold as it is because those few companies that payoff your congressmen, senators and presidential candidates benefit from it, not small business or anyone else who is not a public company.

The big companies that we tend to resent aren't really the biggest offenders in this particular area.

Who is then?

http://www.twincities.com/ci_9580821?IADID=Search-www.twincities.com-www.twincities.com


Not sure if this is the right thread for this article, but the info seemed to tie in with job losses to overseas markets, 41k per month average so far this year cited in the article. If folks are now starting to look at possibly moving back to the U.S. to save on shipping charges, will taking away those tax incentives be a stumbling block to regaining a manufacturing base?

He estimates transportation costs now are the equivalent of a 9 percent tariff on goods coming into U.S. ports, compared with the equivalent of only 3 percent when oil was selling for $20 a barrel in 2000

Excellent. seems gas prices are doing what we should have been doing 15-20 years ago. Tariffs are vastly differant from taxes. as jobs left we should have been increasing tariffs and offering tax breaks and incentives that made staying in the US at least a wash for companies. It only took 6% cost increase to make overseas manufacturing less attractive to alot of these CEO's.

sad to read that we have lost so much manufacturing capacity that it's hard to find producers anymore. but this is America. thats something we can fix easily.

I agree that tariffs are necessary. The people profiting from globalizing away American jobs have co-opted "capitalism" and "free-trade" to hide behind, but neither of those ideals requires forcing our people to price-compete with workers in third world counties.

This is one of the few areas where Federal government can play a beneficial role.

For a historical mirror of the US's current situation, read a bit about "The Repeal of the Corn Laws" in the 1830-40s British Government - specifically how Peel's government handled the situation.

It was rather a controversial issue deciding essentially whether the Gov should pursue free-trade economics or mercantile policies.

Free-trade won, and Britain dominated global markets until the 1890s.

Exactly Ubermod! It would be differant if we saw corporation X say "We just signed a deal for offshore manufacturing saving 75% on our labor costs. so now we can use that saving to re-employ our workers in distribution and sales to expand our market share and over all bottom line. wich is why we will also lower the cost of our product by 20% as well."
Instead what we get is "Sorry small town USA about those 400 jobs we just assed you out of. I'm sure something will pop up. have you tried Walmart or Mcdonalds?"

http://www.newsvine.com/_news/2008/06/17/1585104-bush-closes-defense-contractor-tax-loophole

Well, how about that.

Free-trade won, and Britain dominated global markets until the 1890s.

The term "Free Trade" as referenced to modern global monetary policy has barely anything to do with what the obvious meaning or understood implications of it were prior to the 1970s. It's easy to argue for free trade, because hey, who doesn't like freedom, and who doesn't like trade?

http://www.newsvine.com/_news/2008/06/17/1585104-bush-closes-defense-contractor-tax-loophole

Well, how about that.

Before I applaud Bush for approving the legislation forcing those contractors to pay the necessary taxes, I would be interested to know if he did so based on there being sufficient votes to override a veto or if he actually put the needs of the country ahead of Cheney's business buddies.

Either way, it will be putting more money into the coffers, plus the other elements of the legislation will be helpful to military families.

I figure it's just one of those things too toxic to vote against or veto. Our populace is largely too stupid to understand FISA, monetary policy, etc, but everyone understands war profiteers cutting bait and running overseas to evade taxes.

I figure it's just one of those things too toxic to vote against or veto. Our populace is largely too stupid to understand FISA, monetary policy, etc, but everyone understands war profiteers cutting bait and running overseas to evade taxes.


Well said!

That statement deserves a rep hit but I have to spread around more before I can give one.

Before I applaud Bush for approving the legislation forcing those contractors to pay the necessary taxes, I would be interested to know if he did so based on there being sufficient votes to override a veto or if he actually put the needs of the country ahead of Cheney's business buddies.

Either way, it will be putting more money into the coffers, plus the other elements of the legislation will be helpful to military families.


I smell a signing statement...