So Saturday afternoon Leah and I are watching TV and relaxing when we get a phone call from WAMU Fraud Dept. We answer it and it's for Leah stating they had recent activity on her card that they suspected was fraud-like. She went thru the menus and heard the charges and dates and asked to speak with someone.

On 3/20 and 3/22 someone made purchases from two different sites for almost $1000. It was 3 different transactions. After much waiting and being bounced around we got the amounts and which sites, WAMU is sending her an affadavit to fill out so she won't be responsible for the charges and instructed her to file a police report and concact the three Credit Bureaus and notify them.

So, she did all of this today. Officer came out and talked to her and collected all the info on the charges and her credit card company. She has a 90 hold on her account via the Credit Bureaus if anyone attempts to apply for credit she has to be called for authorization first.

Anyway some interesting things and am curious what you all think about this. 1st, her card expired last month. How could someone use an expired card? 2nd, the charges were form websites for military-esque gear, combat boots, camos, etc. And, the other website was some GNC type place that none of the contact info on the website even works but they purchased $437 from there yet it seems like a "fake company". 3rd, other than the steps that I mentioned she has followed above what else do you think she should do/can do? 4th, protect your shit this is crazy.

Oh, one other thing.... this was a card that she hasn't used in years. The credit report she pulled showed no activity since 3/06 which is as far back as the free one went but she can't remember using it for like 3 or more years. It had a zero balance on it and yes now we know that we should close accounts we aren't using I never knew you should do this before.

It had a zero balance on it and yes now we know that we should close accounts we aren't using I never knew you should do this before.
Careful with that. Your credit score takes a hit when you do that.

Well that's what I thought too. So what is the right thing to do? Some people say close them if you don't use them others say it pings your credit score. I have like 3 cards with zero balances on them I never use them they are cards I transferred balances to and then paid off.

Glad to hear this was caught and that she had the folks contact her to get a stop put on the charges.

Agreed, cards not being used are maybe nice to have to say "Look, I have such and such a card", but if not using them they are simply not good to have. A co-worker once had a couple dozen cards that she used to take much pride in, including some pretty high-end stores. She now carries Visa, a Master Card and a Discover card. Unused accounts are an invitation to problems.

And I have heard of folks having expired cards used, usually due to inattentive sales clerks.

Having several cards with zero balance increases risk in the eyes of at least credit card providers (I used to work for one) as it makes it easier for someone to go out and splurge. Having a bunch of credit available to you creates risk, having no credit shows risk. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

A minor rant/derail regarding credit companies:

I find it thoroughly disgusting that an insurance company is allowed to look at a car owner's credit report and use poor credit history or bankruptcy as justification for increasing premiums. Even if the car is owned outright, if the owner has declared bankruptcy they pay a higher rate, because they might try to "run out" on responsibility in the event of an accident.

I saw my niece go through this, and it simply sucks.

Sorry, rant off.

There is a service that I see advertised, the owner has his social security number advertised on Bill Boards etc... They guarantee they keep your identity safe and will pay up to one million dollars if they don't. Anyone see this...if so post it, might be worth looking at.

I am pretty sure that's called Life Lock

edit: Yup lifelock

http://www.lifelock.com/

I am pretty sure that's called Life Lock

edit: Yup lifelock

http://www.lifelock.com/

A friend of mine told me he heard that the owner of lifelock who has his social security number up on the billboards is an ex convict / Felon. I think he heard it on KFI, or on Rush. Might be worth checking out if it turns out untrue.

-Edit


I found this in Wiki

Robert J. Maynard, Jr., one of the co-founders of the company resigned after it was revealed that he had once been accused of taking money from consumer bank accounts without permission. [1] Maynard spent several days in a Maricopa County Jail in 2003 because of an alleged unpaid $16,000 casino marker from the Mirage. Maynard came up with the plan for LifeLock while sitting in his jail cell, so other people could avoid being victimized by identity thieves. [4]

In 2007, it was reported that the founder and CEO of LifeLock, Todd Davis, became the victim of fraud when someone used his published social security number[5]to obtain a $500 loan. The alleged identity thief did not face criminal charges because LifeLock stepped in before the police could finish investigating the crime and coerced the suspect into making a videotaped confession that isn't admissible in court.[6]

In February of 2008, Experian sued LifeLock for fraud and false advertising. Experian alleged that LifeLock initiated false credit fraud alerts on Experian customer accounts and misled the public as to the necessity of its services.[7]

Wow.

I do use a service I got for free when the state of Ohio had a laptop with 2.5 million ssn's on it.


Debix is the name the state is paying for.

Lifelock is a good idea, they're one of only two companies I remember who will actually put up money if you are victimized while paying for their services. $60 a year or whatever I'm paying with them is less than my accidental falling debris from space insurance on my car.

Update on this.

So one of the companies told her that they didn't release the charges b/c they didn't put a "billling address" in when they did their order. The ship to address was for somewhere in Venezuala (sp) they gave her the guy's name and address.

The other company where charges were made? Not so swift, they are blaming their 3rd party clearing house for letting it go thru without the buyer having a valid billing address and the card being expired. They would not release any other info and said it all had to come from their 3rd party. This is the website that had unworking contact numbers on its' website. The CC company gave her the number for them. Of course she's passed all this info back to the police and her CC company.

We still have no idea how her number got out there but we did go and buy a mailbox that locks. The mail goes in but you need the key to get it out. :)

I don't buy into the lifelock thing. That guy sounds too shady to me. Why pay someone when you can run the credit reports yourself? I think the idea of locking down your credit isn't a bad idea either.

This sounds abit crazy at first but....
Pay off all of your credit cards and cancel them. Build your credit through your home loan or your car loan and if need be a small loan you take out and pay back simply for the purpose of building credit. Bank dont have to know that. I dont have a problem lying to someone who is just as eager to lie and hoodwink me. think of it as politics.

As for your debit cards use them only at your bank and withdraw the cash you need for your purchases. DO not use them anywhere else. if it stays in your wallet or purse it cannot be stolen or comprimised.

Having no credit cards also has the positive effect of keeping your giddy consumerism in check. we have all been guilty of that " Ooooo, thats really cool I'll take three" kind of purchases in our lifetimes. forcing ones self to drive to the bank and remove the cash nessicary gives one a modecum of time to re-think the wisdom of said purchase.

If you really need away to throw your money around in cyberspace for Gaming, I-tunes, Netflix whatever, do one of 2 things. go buy a green dot pre-paid card and keep just enough to cover what you need to spend or open a second account W/ debit card and keep just enough in that account to keep your EQ2 or WoW running. If either option gets comprimised you'll be out? what? $50 a $100 bucks max? at that amount just walk away and write it off. the time spent trying to recover a measely $100 is not worth it.
Read your kids a book instead.

If you follow the above advice you'll not only be protected from scammers and thieves you'll be completely immune to them! minus the need to employ some company to accomplish this for you.(at a small yearly/monthly fee of course).

Never forget the fact that despite what? 3-4 billion in advertising dollars a year to convince you otherwise,
Credit card companies do not exsist out of some grandious concept of making your life better.
But more akin to a Leach! who's sole purpose is to suck you dry!
But me? I give the real life leach a nod of the head. at least it has it's personal survival as motivation.

Try renting a car or staying in a decent hotel with no credit card, and let us know how that goes.

Of course if someone steals your wallet full of cash you have absolutely zero recourse unlike if they steal a wallet devoid of cash with a credit card or two.

Also, not having at least one credit card puts the lender in a higher risk category. Lenders tend to look at people either with a high number of cards or people with zero cards as a higher risk category. The former category for obvious reasons, the latter because there is no history of handling cards responsibly.

The important thing is that people don't have too many credit cards active, especially ones they don't use. If someone has many cards they don't use, it's possible for one to slip through the cracks and not get noticed if some fraud is occurring.

I was told by multiple people not to just up and close my inactive accounts as it would hurt my score. I definitely don't have a credit problem my score is hovering just over 800 these days so I'm not worried about them. But I am worried how it would be affected if I closed 3 cards I don't use.

I remember when we were buying our house my broker asked me to open up a couple of credit card accounts b/c I didn't have enough "credit lines". Up till this point I just had 1 CC. I opened a few up and transferred my balance to one and paid it off and haven't used either since. I continually just use my oldest card /shrug habit I guess.

One thing to remember, if you are going to cancel any of your cards, cancel the newest ones first (unless of course they offer something your older ones don't). If you have 2 inactive cards, and you want to close one, close the newest one though. If you keep the older ones, it helps to show continuity and a long standing credit relationship even if the cards haven't been used.

Here's a question I pose to you all. I'm shooting the Nickelodeon Kid's Choice Awards on Saturday and they did a pretty thorough background check through a non-Universal company named "Informed Choice, LLC, R.P.M.C."
Searching on the internet couldn't find an actual address for these guys at all and they asked for me to provide my name, DOB, SSN, Driver's License #, all sorts of personal shit and a signature.

Couldn't they open a card in my name with all of that? What is to stop them?
Sure, I understand they don't want any sexual offenders at the Kid's Choice Awards, but I get into the White House with less info and I'm fairly hesitant to just give this all out to a small company that could disappear.

Thoughts?

For sure they could get credit with all that info. I guess at that point you would have to decide of the potential risk is worth the potential reward of getting that shoot. Just watch your credit report closely. Any company worth a salt isn't going to jeopardize their reputation.

One option is to freeze your credit by notifying the 3 major credit bureaus (and possibly paying a fee), then temporarily lift the freeze when you actually do want to get a new credit card, loan, etc.

http://www.consumersunion.org/campaigns/learn_more/003484indiv.html

Specifically in Washington D.C.:
District of Columbia (security freeze rights established by D.C. law)

Eligibility: All consumers
Fees: No fees for identity theft victims. All others pay $10 to place the freeze, but no fees to lift it temporarily, or remove it altogether.
Effective date of law: July 1, 2007
Permanent freeze remains until removal requested by consumer.

That's probably not a bad deal--most states seem to have a fee to temporarily lift the freeze.

Try renting a car or staying in a decent hotel with no credit card, and let us know how that goes.

My wife and I have not had a credit card for over 5 years. My credit rating was 784 last I checked.

What we do have is a Visa backed Check Card through our bank account. I have never once had any problem making reservations, buying airline tickets, online purchases, etc.

The only other information I have not seen mentioned is that leaving a zero balance credit card open can be viewed as potential debt by a lender. Once your credit has been established, get rid of them.

I use a debit card for all actual purchases myself. I wouldn't encourage anyone to get into the whole debt slavery cycle that the credit industry works so hard to sell us on.

However, the card processor can differentiate between debit and credit cards. This will cause you trouble a lot of places that hold a credit card authorization in lieu of deposit. They either won't accept it, or they'll accept it only if you authorize them to put a hold on a deposit amount (which usually lingers for a few days even after you've been charged for the actual amount later).

It's a huge pain, compared to just using a traditional credit card.

Of course it's also possible to use a credit card responsibly. I have a single credit card with a reasonable limit; I use it as bill consolidation (most of my bills are set to be paid automatically from this card), so I only have a single bill to actually pay each month.

And since I always pay it off in full, I don't pay anything extra for this service. I even make a tiny bit of money from this arrangement, since I'm effectively deferring payment for several weeks, meaning my bank pays me a little extra interest.

More importantly, I have an extra cushion in case of an emergency that my savings won't cover immediately.

Using a debit card doesn't make sense though. Credit card companies charge merchants a transaction fee, generally a percentage. Anymore merchants do over 50% of their business with credit cards and build this transaction fee into the cost of all of their merchandise. In other words, everything we buy is a few percent more now.

So when you have a credit card company like Chase offering 3% cash back, they're basically giving you your own money back to you. To not use a credit card means paying the extra 3% on the merchandise. I get anywhere from $100 to $150 / back a month using my credit card. Thats $1200 / year, enough to take me on a cruise somewhere. I wouldn't be so quick to discount the card, just make sure you pay your balances off always!

One option is to freeze your credit by notifying the 3 major credit bureaus (and possibly paying a fee), then temporarily lift the freeze when you actually do want to get a new credit card, loan, etc.

http://www.consumersunion.org/campaigns/learn_more/003484indiv.html

Specifically in Washington D.C.:


That's probably not a bad deal--most states seem to have a fee to temporarily lift the freeze.

Leah did this and was NOT charged a fee.

I wouldn't encourage anyone to get into the whole debt slavery cycle that the credit industry works so hard to sell us on.


That's essentially the point my longwinded post was meant to make! As the Grifman pointed out not having a credit card is not the end of the world by anymeans the Sun will rise tomorrow. right on time! will bet my paycheck on that.

Will you possibly encounter inconvient occasions? sure you just might. but there are ways to accomplish your needs. Heaven forbid that every obstacle in life is an impossibilty that cannot be overcome without the quick swipe of a piece of plastic. Kinda of like every Visa commercial ever broadcast towards the good little comrades tells you.

I use Zanders. I have only done it for a year but it was pretty cheap and I figured I needed *something* in case someone got my credit info.

That's essentially the point my longwinded post was meant to make! As the Grifman pointed out not having a credit card is not the end of the world by anymeans the Sun will rise tomorrow. right on time! will bet my paycheck on that.

Will you possibly encounter inconvient occasions? sure you just might. but there are ways to accomplish your needs. Heaven forbid that every obstacle in life is an impossibilty that cannot be overcome without the quick swipe of a piece of plastic. Kinda of like every Visa commercial ever broadcast towards the good little comrades tells you.

Besides putting yourself at a financial disadvantage, paying 3% more than the average consumer for all products not to mention the inability to collect interest for an extra 30 days on your money. See Palarran and my posts above.

The trick is simply to use them for as many purchases as you have to make over a month, keep all your cash in the bank earning interest, reap the "cash back" rewards, and pay off the entirety of your balance every month.

As someone who had massive amounts in a credit cycle like that when the dotcom bust hit, lemme tell you that it can be very dangerous.

I had been doing the same for years, well within my means, until the rug got pulled out from under the economy. Just a couple months of interest and various charges will instantly wipe out anything you may have gained by juggling everything on credit.

Looking at the current economic forecast, I would just caution you to be careful.

Disadvantage? no not really instead i think you fail at creative consumerism. I have rarely made a purchase in the last year that was under the 30 to 50% off range. search the Craigslist free feature amazing stuff for the price your gas and time only.

I will say this in your defense. what I do know of you and your life. your a very busy person. and Grats you seem to bieng doing well enough in life that 3 to 18% of your income is a trivial thing. I hope that continues for you.

P.S. To echo San's post things are not looking good and it's alot more dire than they are letting on. *sticks head in the sand a moment* "Economy is strong!, we are just having a bump in the road" NO, the road ran out months ago and we are firmly in the ditch.

Disadvantage? no not really instead i think you fail at creative consumerism. I have rarely made a purchase in the last year that was under the 30 to 50% off range. search the Craigslist free feature amazing stuff for the price your gas and time only.



Man, I'm glad they started selling groceries and restaurant bills on craigs list. I'm glad that most online merchants take cash too!

As someone who had massive amounts in a credit cycle like that when the dotcom bust hit, lemme tell you that it can be very dangerous.

I had been doing the same for years, well within my means, until the rug got pulled out from under the economy. Just a couple months of interest and various charges will instantly wipe out anything you may have gained by juggling everything on credit.

Looking at the current economic forecast, I would just caution you to be careful.

When I started my company and before I bought my house I made sure to put 6 months of income in the bank. In other words, if I didn't have a single job for 6 months I'd still survive exactly the same way as I am now. When I bought the house a large chunk of that became my down payment, but I've managed to put 3 months back at this point including the mortgage. The trick there is to have a savings and spend no more than half of your income (putting the other half into savings and retirement, in other words living within your means), and adding $1200 / year to that savings isn't a bad thing when paying cash I would have been paying that $1200 extra on goods like groceries and gas.

Sure, for a while I lived in a shitty house with 5 roommates and we always fought over fridge space for a few years since that was all I could afford on half a salary, but in the long run it worked itself out.

I use a debit card for all actual purchases myself. I wouldn't encourage anyone to get into the whole debt slavery cycle that the credit industry works so hard to sell us on.

However, the card processor can differentiate between debit and credit cards. This will cause you trouble a lot of places that hold a credit card authorization in lieu of deposit. They either won't accept it, or they'll accept it only if you authorize them to put a hold on a deposit amount (which usually lingers for a few days even after you've been charged for the actual amount later).

It's a huge pain, compared to just using a traditional credit card.

It is a check card that is processed as a credit card. Every time I swipe it I have to select credit (not debit). For all intents and purposes, it is a credit card.

http://www.usbank.com/cgi_w/cfm/check_card/detail.cfm?cid=1&p=2

Just throwing it out there. It seems to me to be the only responsible solution. You can't spend more than is in your check account (and overdraft protection amount) and again, I have never run into any issues at all. It is a Visa card.

Like I said, I use a debit (VISA Check) card for most of my "credit" purchases. I know what they are.

However, I've personally run into sites/businesses that reject them or treat them differently though, even if you try to run them as VISAs.

It's data available in any modern merchant setup.

On a slight derail..... never never never ever ever never co-sign ANYTHING with your girlfriend, fiance' , or anyone else.................... If you need reference's on why NOT to do this, I will give you my brothers phone number..........

On a slight derail..... never never never ever ever never co-sign ANYTHING with your girlfriend, fiance' , or anyone else.................... If you need reference's on why NOT to do this, I will give you my brothers phone number..........

Or just watch Judge Judy

Someone obviously never read the man rules. #14: Never trust women with money.

Like I said, I use a debit (VISA Check) card for most of my "credit" purchases. I know what they are.

However, I've personally run into sites/businesses that reject them or treat them differently though, even if you try to run them as VISAs.

It's data available in any modern merchant setup.

That is a safe way to do things, but you don't get the 3% back that you are paying for that way. And you lose the money instantly, instead of ~30 days later.

Say you spend $1500 a month on bills, groceries, etc. Things you would normally write a check for or pay cash, or use that check card. This would be a pretty low estimate I imagine for most. 3% cash back, over the course of a year, would be $540 in your pocket for doing nothing but using that credit card. Put it in a savings account at 2.5% interest rate and thats $636.32, not to mention the extra $37.50 a month you'd get in interest on that $1500 you can keep in the savings acct for 30 days instead of straight out of your pocket. Net income buying the very same things you would just putting your cash in a savings acct and having your credit card automatically deduct the statement balance every month: $1086.32 that year. And like I said before, most people have a lot more than $1500 / month in expenses. And *hopefully* interest rates for savings accounts go up above 2.5% soon (I still get 2.71% through emigrantdirect.com, but that was over 6% last year).

Oh yeah, and don't trust women with money. My girlfriend gets a call from Nordstrom's if she hasn't been there in a month because they are worried about her :(

It is a check card that is processed as a credit card. Every time I swipe it I have to select credit (not debit). For all intents and purposes, it is a credit card.

http://www.usbank.com/cgi_w/cfm/check_card/detail.cfm?cid=1&p=2

Just throwing it out there. It seems to me to be the only responsible solution. You can't spend more than is in your check account (and overdraft protection amount) and again, I have never run into any issues at all. It is a Visa card.

I use this same US Bank card and I hate it now. I used to get cash back on each purchase, but now they limit it to certain online partners when the product is only purchased through US Bank's web portal. It was put in the fine print of my bill one month, and I'm still pretty pissed about it. If they weren't a good bank to me in most other fashions, I would have bailed for sure that day I found out after calling to ask where my cash back was.

Oh yeah, and don't trust women with money. My girlfriend gets a call from Nordstrom's if she hasn't been there in a month because they are worried about her :(

That's nothing. My ex would go on a two week vacation, and Macy's would lay off employees.

I can't say shit. My wife makes slightly more than double what I make, and I spend a shitton more money than she does.

I can't say shit. My wife makes slightly more than double what I make, and I spend a shitton more money than she does.

haha you sound like my gf! :D I work too much to enjoy the thoughts of spending the money....

I use this same US Bank card and I hate it now. I used to get cash back on each purchase, but now they limit it to certain online partners when the product is only purchased through US Bank's web portal. It was put in the fine print of my bill one month, and I'm still pretty pissed about it. If they weren't a good bank to me in most other fashions, I would have bailed for sure that day I found out after calling to ask where my cash back was.

That sucks. I didn't realize that. I typically make it a point to use the card for this very reason. I don't know that my habits will change knowing this but it sure makes for a smaller check at the end of the year :mad:

That is a safe way to do things, but you don't get the 3% back that you are paying for that way. And you lose the money instantly, instead of ~30 days later.

Say you spend $1500 a month on bills, groceries, etc. Things you would normally write a check for or pay cash, or use that check card. This would be a pretty low estimate I imagine for most. 3% cash back, over the course of a year, would be $540 in your pocket for doing nothing but using that credit card. Put it in a savings account at 2.5% interest rate and thats $636.32, not to mention the extra $37.50 a month you'd get in interest on that $1500 you can keep in the savings acct for 30 days instead of straight out of your pocket. Net income buying the very same things you would just putting your cash in a savings acct and having your credit card automatically deduct the statement balance every month: $1086.32 that year. And like I said before, most people have a lot more than $1500 / month in expenses. And *hopefully* interest rates for savings accounts go up above 2.5% soon (I still get 2.71% through emigrantdirect.com, but that was over 6% last year).
Sure, it makes great sense in theory.

Though, once you start having to dick with keeping all this money in the right place at the right time (lest you end up with a 20+% interest rate for missing a payment by a day), it quickly begins to lose its appeal. Especially if you value your time at all.

Also, don't forget that you're subject to tax on a lot of those "savings", since they're reported as income. That even further reduces the net benefit of it all.

For an example of how quickly things can change, take a look at this story: http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/personal/03/27/foodbank.family/index.html

Yeah, that's 70k/year to the food bank line, in two months. Just be careful.

I thought I was as smart as you think you are, about a decade ago. I was mostly right, but partly wrong. Unfortunately, being even partly wrong completely fucks you in this case.

I'd much rather focus on making 3% more, than waste my time trying to dance with the devil to save 3%.

It doesn't take any time at all. I'm naturally a very lazy person. I have my credit card company automatically deduct the cash from my savings account, use the credit card for all of my payments, and I have all of my checks from the invoices I send out deposited right into my savings account. And the checks from Chase for $50 a month get deposited there too, and I save the little clippings attached and have my accountant worry about the taxes.

In college I feel in love with scuba diving and went almost 8 times in a year. Just last month my mom invited me to Mexico to go scuba diving and I haven't been in 2 years, but I said no because I haven't gotten my bank account back up to being able to support me for 6 months without a drop of income. Tonight when my friends are out to dinner, then the movies, then a bar ... I might stay in and play Everquest which costs a hell of a lot less. The point is to make some sacrifices now so you don't have to worry about that trip to the food bank later.

hate to bump an old thread, but ...


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080522/ap_on_hi_te/identity_fraud_flap

There is one concern with using a debit card all the time...

Less protection.

Example: If you go to a restaurant and they have the right equipment they can gain access to your card and run up all sorts of charges on your bank account, which pretty much means you're screwed b/c the bank probably isn't going to cover $1000s of dollars of fraudulent withdrawals like a credit card would.

When you can it is good to run your debit card as a credit card (at a grocery store, Wal-Mart, etc.) b/c by thus doing so you gain extra protection.

I think some restaurants are starting to bring the card scanner to your table in order to promote security and confidence.