www.cnn.com/2003/US/12/12...index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/12/12/sprj.nirq.west.ruling/index.html)
interesting.

Interesting indeed.

Now a lot of the tree hugging hippies and the Euros-that-hate-America will say this guy should burn in hell for what he did, he did what he thought he was right for the time. I can't put a clear perspective on this since my life has never been severely threatened the way his was, and I've never lost my cool the way he did as a result simply because I can't put myself in his shoes, and neither can 99.9% of the people on this board I'm guessing. Honestly, the only people I would take the honest word of about a subject like this would be that of Binuvin, Vinces, Shanno etc... the people on this board that have been to or are still stationed in Iraq or have served in the military in which a similar situation has happened.

So for all the people about to give their two cents about shit they know almost nothing about, knock yourself out and pretend how wise you are when it comes to every aspect of the world and emotions, I'll sit back and wait for someone with a worthwhile opinion to respond.

But on a lighter note, something I do admire about this guy and would have to agree with...
"If it's about the lives of my soldiers at stake, I'd go through hell with a gasoline can."

That is all.

Ayup, what Shew said.

And thanks for the link, definetly interesting.

Yes, thank you very much for the link :)

Anyway, I agree with the gasoline quote ;) Hell, I wouldn't mind them torturing someone if they were positive they had information.

GO GO GOOD GUYS!!11

We have the USMJ for a very good reason.

That being said I can understand why he came to the rationalization that he was doing the lesser of two evils.

It's about keeping our troops alive in a situation where the rules couldn't have always foretold all the ramifications.

Christopher...

"I know the method I used was not right, but I wanted to take care of my soldiers,

That about sums it up for me right there.

I'm sorry,but i could never imagine what those guys are going thorugh over there.

I'v often thought about how I would be if i were over there,and i swear,with all the pregnant women and children suicide bomings,I'd shoot anything within 200 yards of me that wasn't wearing a uniform.And if someone had some info,I'd do all i could to get it.

Getting a beating and threatened to be killed is standard practice in the interogation world.

This isn't like Saddam, Uday, and Qsay ass raping people with barbed wire, or flogging them to death with a rubber hose or hooking up electrical wires to their sacks.

You can bet our boys would get MUCH worse if they fell into enemy hands.

I also think that our soldiers know where the line is, and know how far they can go, before it becomes unacceptable torture.

hooking up electrical wires to their sacks

Ever see the Colin Farrel movie, "Tigerland"? If there's any truth in it, we did the same shit too... of course it is Hollywood.

I dont really disagree with what the commander did, but its funny that if it was a post about Iraquis beating and threatening to kill an American soldier for info, who would agree here?

Impresario Almadar Tegleftyln
Retired

Y'know, Almadar raises a pretty good point. How would we react?

The only difference that immediately comes to mind is that I highly doubt the Iraqi goverment would be punishing their soldiers for beating prisoners like this, merely trying to conceal it from the UN.

EIther way, I doubt we would be, "Well, it's shtity but understandable" and more like, "I hope he gets hit by a bus full of fat chicks."

/nod Zehn

I really don't see a good solution or understanding to this. Seen from the other side I'm sure I'd be hoping the perp would rot in hell.

Christopher...

Iraquis beating and threatening to kill an American soldier for info, who would agree here?


Clue for the day:

They beat, rape, and murdered captured soldiers from our side. They didn't even do it for information.

Oh.
Then I guess it's OK for our side to do it FOR information.

Depends on what information.

they do it to see where britney spears will apear next

I don't recall our side beating to death or raping their captured soldiers. Maybe instead of inserting your next one line off topic potshot you could point out where that happened?

Somehow i don't find shooting a gun into a barrel by someone to be the same thing.

Scare the shit out of an Iraqi to save American lives, I don't even see why there is a problem here.

We take damn good care of our captured enemies and we need to be proud of it... Criticism can make it better, but if there are lives at stake and the prisoner knows information, it would have been much worse if they didn't interrogate him to the point where he leaked the info.

Maybe instead of inserting your next one line off topic potshot you could point out where that happened?

Well, it boils down to the fact that he knows anything else would not stand up to the scrutiny of an argument in these here parts. One-line, snide comments can later be explained away as a joke, or "misinterpreted", or a twisted into a number of other things. He has these knee-jerk, estrogen laden reactions, but knows from experience that none of it would stand a snowball's chance in hell when placed against a rational analysis. Least, that's my thought on the reason our favorite twat can only interject one-line comments, and not actually engage in discourse.

Actually, no, not even remotely. It's just the sign of a weary liberal.
To measure good behaviour by the standards of the cruel opposition doesn't really create a halo above yer head.
See, I condensed that in to a one liner above.

Plus, fire, pretty.

Getting a beating and threatened to be killed is standard practice in the interogation world.

This isn't like Saddam, Uday, and Qsay ass raping people with barbed wire, or flogging them to death with a rubber hose or hooking up electrical wires to their sacks.

You can bet our boys would get MUCH worse if they fell into enemy hands.
Which makes any method acceptable and perfectly fine. I mean hey, after all you're the good guys. So your methods are good, their methods are bad. No matter which ones they are, right?

Just don't lose focus when you realize one day that you're doing the same to people that you invade other countries for.

Besides this, I couldn't care less about this soldiers methods. This is war and people freak out on it all the time. Can't blame them. Blame the people that sent your boys over there in the first place.

Taino, I think you missed the point. The man is receiving disciplinary action for what he did because it more than likely violated the rules of engagement. That pretty much implies that no, any method is not A-OK. People make mistakes and get punished. Thats what the story was about. He was a soldier doing his job for which he volunteered for and he screwed up. Dragging Mr. Bush into this is not really anything more than the same Taino rubberstamp arguement and here it really makes no damn sense.

Shew really should have refrained from the cander, and just went ahead and stated:

"This will get Taino back on his soapbox."

What's there to discuss?
Accused, trialed, conficted

Thats how it works.

You do the crime you do the time.

So your methods are good, their methods are bad

Yep.

we use scare tactics

they use the death tactics

i dunno which is better

we use scare tactics

they use the death tactics
Yep, you are scared of a threat that doesn't exist (fear of terrorist attacks, in the past 10 years the chance of getting killed on a terrorist attack was like 1: 10'000'000, if you count 2001 out, the chance was ZERO).
And they die in your bombings.

You hit the nail on the head :)

oh ok, so lets change the subject to bombing of iraq, instead of interrogations? ahh ok i like your strategy

Don't confuse Taino with someone actually wanting to discuss the topic at hand.

He's only spoon fed so many topics a day. You really can't expect him to hold an intelligent discussion about a random topic eh?

Todays discussion:

The merits of eating an apple a day....

Taino: Omg this is just a ploy by America to blind us to their horrible injustices!!! Johnny Appleseed was a blind sheep of a man!!

The rest of the sane world: Errrr okay Taino, whatevah...


Christopher...

Knowing how I would feel under that kind of stress, I can't say that I would take the high road either. I'm pretty fallible and the temptation to cut corners to save my men would be more temptation than I would likely be able to stand. But I would be wrong. Smacking around prisoners and faking an execution is wrong by the standards we set for ourselves. I too would deserve some sort of penalty.

I think the prosecutors recognized this and made an reasonable decision. He should not have been let off scott free, but neither did he deserve 11 years in the clink.

If you don't attach some kind of penalty to that sort of activity, pretty soon you have a situation like the Canadian soldiers in Africa...torture for the fun of it or for revenge. This time it may have saved some lives, but the next time it might have cost them if an innocent was beaten and his family decided to take revenge. Torture should never be condoned, even when it is done to save soldier's lives.

What I find funny is that Taino looks upon everyone that romotely supports America/Bush/War as a blind sheep, but he remains the blindest of all by repeatedly believing his anti-american bullshit.

Same shit, different smell, as always Taino.

Please finally realize, I am not anti America. I am anti Bush.
Bush is the one killing your freedom and peace, its your worst enemy. I consider myself pretty much pro america.
Sad that you don't see the difference.

Taino, if you want to mock the Bush administration, then attack the Bush administration. Do some actual research by going up on well respected scholars and journalists and finding what they've found and then if you want to discuss, discuss.

Saying, "Johnny called his cat a terrorist. Ergo, Bush is an evil person, not Johnny who also beats off to vegetable porn." is not exactly a logical statement that you're going to get very far here.

Your message seems to be, "Bush is a bad person." The thing is Taino, WE ALREADY FUCKING KNOW. He's a politician. All politicians are evil. End of story.

/agree Zhen Taino I only support Bush because he is the lesser of all the political evils so to speak. I'd rather have him in office then someone like Al Gore or Howard Dean. Personally I wish it was like the Road Warrior. I could drive a dune buggy all day and shoot shit. What could be more fun than that? LOL

taino, agian, why are you posting this in a thread about a US general's interrogation?!

"general did what he thought was right, but needed to be punished"

"i agree, i wonder how the outlook would look like if the iraqi's did something similar"

"depends, they use harsher tactics, just for fun and glee, plus the person usually dies"

"WELL IT WOUDLN"T HAPPEN IF YOU DIDN"T BOMB THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE"

wtf?!

' I could drive a dune buggy all day and shoot shit. What could be more fun than that? LOL '

- Joe America, ladies and gentlemen.

Doing it in France?

i think what he means is , drive the buggy on the doons, and go to a shooting range and just fire a bunch of rounds, i don't think (hopefully) he ment driving in the buggy with his 357 trying to shoot at the rocks at the same time

although, going to an out doors shooting range, setting up bowling pins and some targets about 50-100 yards out, taking rifles and other hand guns for shooting practice can be fun

What are you kidding me! If was like total anarchy road warriors days it would be downtown france. But until then I dont own a dune buggy and I shoot at legal shooting ranges.