Great day for Freedom!

Was anyone here actually against Don't ask Don't tell being repealed?

I got in a debate about this at work today. To me, it seemed like Don't Ask Don't Tell was actually an important step in the process of allowing gays in the military. Back when it was introduced, there was no way it would have passed for gays to serve openly. While it was definitely long overdue to be repealed, it was a necessary evil.

What you all think?

Oh absolutely. It was either that OR nothing then.

Once again, it takes the US twenty years to notice what the rest of the world is already doing successfully. Public option 2034!

For me the best part of this has been watching the reactionaries go apeshit. The usual flag-waiving morons are practically apoplectic in their fantasies about being molested by gay men in a shower.

While I don't think it's going to contribute the kind of manpower to the US military that the abolition of slavery did - it's a cracking step for equality.

Honestly I think for every gay person that enlists (or re-enlists) we're going to lose a redneck hick who is afraid of catching "Teh Ghey" So our numbers won't change much. OTOH Those that do get out because of the change are more likely to be old timers holding seniors positions, so guys like me will have better promotion opportunities.


At the end of the gay, er day. As long as they asshole next to me is doing his job and not trying to get into someone else's asshole I don't care what he does in his off time. And if the Nerds movie is any indication, maybe we need to go to a limp wristed throwing style to get better distance on our grenade tosses.

You dont have to be straight to serve in the military, you only have to shoot straight.

I found this entire issue to be extremely interesting over the last several years as the debate has grown. What really drew my interest was the personal interest stories of the folks being ushered out of service, and how utterly asinine it showed the military leadership to be; talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Fighting two wars with people who speak different languages, and having experts in those languages working for you who are translating intelligence and assisting with interrogations and aiding you in understanding the manner in which the enemy may be thinking, you choose to get rid of that resource because he would rather stick his dick in a man's butt than in a woman's.....sheer idiocy.

I am glad that we are moving ahead with the notion of making one people from many, and extending civil rights to another group. And, with the populations continuing to rise beyond the ability of our planet's resources to provide for, I think the biological priority of procreation which these old ways of thinking were based on have less credence in the here and now.

I do hope many of those who have railed about wanting to serve are not only allowed to reenlist soon, but that they actually do what they claim to have wanted all along. We lost some very valuable resources, and could use them back in service.

The conservative forums are foaming at the mouth over this. Our fighting force will degrade, moral will drop, predictions of a mass exodus of troops followed by the end of the US. In one thread I learned that gays are not good fighters...and a few posts later a bizarre followup showed that gays can't control themselves and become bloodthirsty killers without any morals. Oh, it is the end! Any attempt to draw parallels to other nations with functioning militaries is met with, "But America is the bestest! The man on TV told me so!"

I agree with Selwen. It was a necessary step at the time, but is long overdue for removal.

The problem is going to be the feminine homosexuals. Most of the people I have spoken to at my wing voiced a problem with that. Flamboyantly gay to draw attention gays, are going to have a problem adjusting.

I'm just happy that I will probably retire before they make it mandatory for all service members. :p

:devil

Well, I don't think flamboyantly gay people will make it very far--the same standards apply to women servicemembers. Obnoxiously behaved people should be discharged regardless of their sexual preference.

I also think the problem can be remedied by having stricter recruiting standards. The problems are unlikely to happen at the officer level since you can qualify the candidates during the vetting period.

Which wing do you belong to, trikki?

I agree, but recruiters have a quoto to fill with unrealistic expectations. As long as they do well on the ASVAB tests, graduate High School and stay out of trouble with the Law.... Can't really deny anyone an opportunity. Although, if someone walked in to the Recruiter's office in a Pink Tutu and a thong, I'm guessing they will get tossed out on their ruffles.

I'm in AFRC 482nd FW out of Miami. :club

:devil

Wait, someone in Miami is complaining about flamboyance?!

At the end of the day, like on any other job, the work has to get done. Thats all that matters. Sexual orientation should have never been about the work getting done and being a professional. The flip side of that is obnoxious behavior, whatever the flavor may be, is still just that and will carry consequences and where as acting the flamer before got you a admin discharge, now you get to stay in and deal with the aftermath of acting the fool. That will be the military's prime concern as far as discipline. Not where you park your junk. That should address any flamboyance issues. That and article 125 of the UCMJ if left on the books might have some influence yet.

Probably the biggest thing the military is having issues with now is the benifits and for now the service is insullated behind the fact that gay marriage is for the most part illegal. It boils down to money. Typically benifits have to extend to family members, which requires presentation of a copy of a marriage certificate etc showing that a legally binding union has occured. Its doubtful the military is ready to extend these entitlements without it, and thus this is really is only the tip of the iceburg as you can see the whole debate taking on a whole new twist as a result if a gay service member cries foul at not being able to have the same level of benifits for a domestic partner as those afforded a regular married couple. Who knows if the military really wants to get caught up in all that. I don't ever see them being a prime mover in that debate but will adapt accordingly to suit the legal and political environment as time progresses.

What about other issues. Basic training has open bay showering, when TDY generally a room is shared between 2-16 people. Will they get preferential treatment or will there be an attempt to integrate them like anyone else? Will a lisp in a voice be enough to keep everyone out of the showers? Should be interesting.

Malse, I'm not complaining about flamboyance. I'm just recognizing potential for problems, and talking to rednecks at work. I love the gays. :D

:devil

Why should there be more care what the rednecks think than the gay folks?

I am so proud this was struck down. There can be no government condoned segregation or discrimination in our country with the freedoms and rights we hold dear. This struck down one of the last government sanctioned discrimination practices.

Why should there be more care what the rednecks think than the gay folks?


Because they are armed and dangerous. :p

:devil

Because they are armed and dangerous. :p

:devil
And now the gays will be too.

And now the gays will be too.


*cough* they always have been :)

Given somewhere between 3-8% of the male population is generally assumed to be gay at any time, it only follows that a similar percentage of the military always has been, particularly prior to the hyper-orthodoxy of the 1950s when such things were well understood to be happening, just never publicly discussed. I'm guessing the fags that stormed Normandy beach probably didn't have too much trouble tripping on their feather boas.

Interestingly, due to a correlation between birth order and homosexual tendencies in men that is not well understood but theorized to be associated with falling androgen levels that may activate the androphilia genes differently, there were probably actually more gay men, at least, in the US military prior to 1970 with larger family sizes and the draft than after DADT or now.

I'm guessing the fags that stormed Normandy beach probably didn't have too much trouble tripping on their feather boas.


I lol'd at the visual. Then felt guilty for laughing about that day. Thanks Malse.

:devil

Star Ship Troopers shower scene....nuff said. ;)

As an army signals operator, I've worked with many women in my detachment. Not having a lot of room out in the field (because we were often sent off to parts unknown) we'd have pretty close quarters. Needless to say, no one freaked out when we got changed infront of each other. We're professionals, plain and simple. It's about time North America in general got over its hang ups about the naked body. If anything, you start providing private accomodations for such things as showering, that's where you're gonna have trouble with inappropriate behavior. Whether it's gay and heterosexual people of the same sex showering together or heterosexual people of opposite sex showering together, it's all the same really.

Star Ship Troopers shower scene....nuff said. ;)

I just watched this the other day for the first time. On purpose. Magnificently awful, but that particular scene held some redemptive qualities. On the issue itself, Barney Frank gives the best response (http://wonkette.com/433223/barney-frank-defends-gay-showers).

Here is my opinion from the boards token ultra-right neo-con... Are you ready?


I DON'T GIVE A SHIT! That's right. Let the homo's server.. What's the big deal? The flowery little flitboys like Jedd could not make it trough training anyways so let the good guys go fight. I got more important shit to worry about like trying to get that fraud and American impostor Obama to give up his real birth certificate....

Aw, our favorite troll is still around. I hear the new governor of Hawai'i is going to hook you up on that point, too, Osg.

I highly doubt it...

If you are serious....lol.

:devil