These two words describe nearly all the problems with our economy and the greater state of business in general. Sub prime mortgages, credit default swaps, collateralized debt obligations, Madoff, Stanford, AIG bailout and subsequent bonuses. Due Diligence is a key factor in Capitalism. Anyone who isnt saavy enough or willfully choses not to do it deserves all failures and penalties incurred. Whatever happened to being an informed, responsible buyer? If its seems too good to be true, it probably is.....

But in the view of a get rich quick scheme all of that goes out the window thanks to greed.

These two words describe nearly all the problems with our economy and the greater state of business in general. Sub prime mortgages, credit default swaps, collateralized debt obligations, Madoff, Stanford, AIG bailout and subsequent bonuses. Due Diligence is a key factor in Capitalism. Anyone who isnt saavy enough or willfully choses not to do it deserves all failures and penalties incurred. Whatever happened to being an informed, responsible buyer? If its seems too good to be true, it probably is.....

It is correct, due diligence is a major part of it. But, in the case of lenders lending to people who clearly could not afford the mortgage it is the lenders fault. Also when dealing with a financial institution, realestate agent, title company the laws (in most states) clearly spell out that the "borrower" has a reasonable expectation of truth from them. That can and does often trump contract language.

We as people have a reasonable expectation in dealing with any type of service that they are knowledgable and truthful in what they are verbally telling you.

As an example, if you take your computer to be repaired at a place named "Bobs Computer Repair" and in the contract it says that the place is not going to attempt a repair but will pour water on it and further damage it, you would still win in court against them as they openly advertise as "Computer Repair". In cases of Sub Prime mortgages more cases than not will be found in favor of the borrower in a court, the only problem is that under Bush and the Republicans the statute of limitations was changed to one year in cases of consumer fraud against lenders.

So basically because the banks have our politicians on their "payrolls" we have laws and rules so one sided that it is beyond scary.


To quote my father "If someone offers you something for nothing...call a cop"

I have heard the term "get rich quick scheme" often in these tumultuous times. It does seem that many of the so called "victims" of todays business are people that were lured in by the "get rich quick schemes." Yes it is their own fault. It reminds me of the sings I see on the freeway off/on ramps that say "looking for real estate underling, make 10k per week". You see the same shit on tv too. We as a country need to get back to " making money the old fashioned way, we earn it."

The Smith Barny method? Most people here won't remember that commercial. They will probably also think that method is as 'old school' as it comes. The funny thing about 'old school' is that sometimes its the best way to do things.

Getting back to a manufacturing base in this country wouldn't be such a bad thing.

....Getting back to a manufacturing base in this country wouldn't be such a bad thing.

Issue with that lies in outsourceing. Why pay any US worker to manufacture something when it can be done cheaper else where. Fix that issue first.

Possible solution, higher tariffs perhaps, i am not versed in import process and its details.

Issue with that lies in outsourceing. Why pay any US worker to manufacture something when it can be done cheaper else where. Fix that issue first.

Possible solution, higher tariffs perhaps, i am not versed in import process and its details.

Hell it would help if we forced those countries, all countries, to actually trade on an even keel. As is our products have tariffs applied, or other such taxes, while we just let their crap come in sans tariff.

Issue with that lies in outsourceing. Why pay any US worker to manufacture something when it can be done cheaper else where. Fix that issue first.

Possible solution, higher tariffs perhaps, i am not versed in import process and its details.

Well, it used to be that Made in USA meant a better quality product. I wear Danner Boots made in the USA, I've had them for 3 years and they are as solid as the day I got them. So it seems that is still the case.

I was gonna make a comment earlier that 'Made in the U.S.A' used to mean top quality products, while 'Made in Japan' was a joke. Now, it seems that has reversed.

Heaven forbid Nike be forced to pay someone 12$ an hour to sell me a 250$ pair of shoes. my god we force them double the costs production labor and they will either have to double the price of shoes or OMG make Jordan take a pay cut in his multi million dollar endorsement contract.

They are making more money than they did here. They just pocket the labor difference. Why shouldn't they? Everyone seems to be doing it unfortunately.

I was gonna make a comment earlier that 'Made in the U.S.A' used to mean top quality products, while 'Made in Japan' was a joke. Now, it seems that has reversed.


no...that was my point of Danner Boots...Made in the USA still has a higher quality.

no...that was my point of Danner Boots...Made in the USA still has a higher quality.

In my line of work, made in the USA = shit!

In my line of work, made in the USA = shit!

Your line of work is kitchen design? Or something along that line?

maybe something to do with cars? i mean, i dont want to pile on here, but american cars are shit.

Your line of work is kitchen design? Or something along that line?

Kitchen and Bath design as well as selling luxury Bath and Kitchen fixtures.

Basically all of the products that are made in the USA with the exception of a couple of door hardware companies, and a whirlpool manufacturer or 2 are complete garbage.

Cheap home depot type crap that is an embarrassment to even carry. I only sell it when people ask for it by name.

Most of our quality products are German, Italian, French,English, and Japanese.

I would hazard a guess that most US companies for bathroom fixtures actually have their manufacturing done in China, Malaysia or India if there is any volume involved. Hence the crappy worksmanship.

The US manufacturing base has greatly shrunk. At the current rate, it will be pretty much gone in 5 years except for some final assembly and medical/military applications.

I would hazard a guess that most US companies for bathroom fixtures actually have their manufacturing done in China, Malaysia or India if there is any volume involved. Hence the crappy worksmanship.

The US manufacturing base has greatly shrunk. At the current rate, it will be pretty much gone in 5 years except for some final assembly and medical/military applications.

There are a lot of Chinese manufactured products from American companies, but the few that are "MADE IN THE USA" are not great products compared to the european products we carry.

Kohler and American Standard for instance are Made in the USA, and are both shit toilets compared to Toto which is Japanese.

Kohler and American Standard for instance are Made in the USA, and are both shit toilets compared to Toto which is Japanese.
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Explain please, really. toilet design is pretty simplistic and hasnt changed in many years. go to some older buildings and you'll see 60+ year old American Standard toilets and urinals still going strong. hell i've seen some American urinals and standard urinals still in use.(pre-merger)

Do you mean materials? or the valve hardware? low flow toilets always suck IMHO not due to design but a poorer pressure gradiant.

P.S. I think you guys missed the point on the Nike comment i posted.

Kohler and American Standard for instance are Made in the USA, and are both shit toilets .

Well I don't know about you but I use my toilet for shitting primarily, so it seem like it'd be a good idea to have a shit toilet as opposed to a different kind...

Explain please, really. toilet design is pretty simplistic and hasnt changed in many years. go to some older buildings and you'll see 60+ year old American Standard toilets and urinals still going strong. hell i've seen some American urinals and standard urinals still in use.(pre-merger)

Do you mean materials? or the valve hardware? low flow toilets always suck IMHO not due to design but a poorer pressure gradiant.

P.S. I think you guys missed the point on the Nike comment i posted.

The flush systems, Trap size, Is the Trap Glazed to make flushing easier? Is the Trap size 3" as opposed to American shit 2"? Does the toilet feature a glazing that makes it less porous therefore easier to clean?!

There is a lot to toilets, you guys just don't have to sell them every day, so you don't hear the horror stories I hear :)

And those old old kohler and American Standards were great.... I emphasize were. Just like most things American they have become crap.

Well I don't know about you but I use my toilet for shitting primarily, so it seem like it'd be a good idea to have a shit toilet as opposed to a different kind...

Yea, only until it spits your shit out at you cause it doesn't think it can handle flushing it, or leaks all over your bathroom when your out of town flooding your entire bottom floor, or worse wetting your entire bathroom upstairs and flowing down inside your walls causing mold!

EWWW!

But is that due to the materials used to manufacture the toilets, or the competence of the person installing?

Professional plumber vs Joe Homeowner?

It's primarily because plumbers like Jedd don't normally install bidets in their bathroom designs!!!!

'Well, it used to be that Made in USA meant a better quality product'

- Take a lesson from history. A common term for the British industrial economy used to be 'Workshop of the World'. Now look at us :)

It happens to every top dog, eventually. Just gotta get used to it.

But is that due to the materials used to manufacture the toilets, or the competence of the person installing?

Professional plumber vs Joe Homeowner?

Installation has little to do with how craptastic American toilets are :(

It's primarily because plumbers like Jedd don't normally install bidets in their bathroom designs!!!!

Wish I was a plumber!! Then I could sell the product and install it for the full profit off the job! Oh and the Japanese toilet company has bidet seats that attach to the toilet and have heated seats that wash your ass and deoderize after use...

Wish I was a plumber!! Then I could sell the product and install it for the full profit off the job! Oh and the Japanese toilet company has bidet seats that attach to the toilet and have heated seats that wash your ass and deoderize after use...

At the risk of sounding unAmerican I found the bidet to be rather cleaner than our usual method. Got to experience the bidet while over in Desert Storm while staying in Khobar Towers.

Heated seat, hell man now you're talking heaven!!

I think you guys poop too much. I'll take a heated massaging office desk chair and save money on the heated toilet seat.

To be honest I have no doubt that a number of American products can't compete with international cometition in terms of quality when every company here takes every length to make sure they spend as little as possible.

I think you guys poop too much. I'll take a heated massaging office desk chair and save money on the heated toilet seat.

To be honest I have no doubt that a number of American products can't compete with international cometition in terms of quality when every company here takes every length to make sure they spend as little as possible.

You're young so you don't know the life of a good poop!

I do suggest fiber in your diet soon however!!

Yea, only until it spits your shit out at you cause it doesn't think it can handle flushing it

OK, jedd is now ascribing sentience to a toilet?

Might explain his crappy outlook on so many topics......:p