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View Full Version : Dumb people doing dumb things, Not thier fault!.


Darus Grey
09-07-2003, 12:57 AM
NEW YORK (Sept. 6) - The family of a slain motorist has filed suit against the maker of a video game that two teens claim inspired them to shoot at passing cars on a Tennessee highway.

Grand Theft Auto, a video game that allows players to "fire" on people and cars in realistic, shoot-'em-up fashion, is a cash cow that propelled manufacturer TAKE2interactive to the top of the video game industry. For the middle and high school students who play the game for hours on end, it's a means of escaping the monotony of teenage life.

But for two stepbrothers, 16-year-old William and 14-year-old Joshua Buckner, that escape turned deadly this summer. They told police they were emulating Grand Theft Auto on the night of June 25 when they took shotguns to Interstate 40, near their Newport, Tenn., home, and opened fire on vehicles.

A Bullet Through the Window

The boys told police they did not mean to hit people, but the results were catastrophic.

"I have eight bullet fragments all in my body," said 19-year-old Kimberly Bede, of Moneta, Va., who was hit in the pelvis as she rode in the passenger seat of her boyfriend's car. "The bullet entered my hip and I'm still receiving medical treatment."

Aaron Hamel, a 45-year-old registered nurse from Knoxville, Tenn., traveling in a separate car, was killed.

"We had a beautiful day in the mountains, and we were heading back home to Knoxville," said Hamel's cousin, Denise Deneau on ABCNEWS' Good Morning America Friday.

"We were talking, laughing, listening to music and all of a sudden my cousin told me to look at the beautiful flowers. And as I did that, my glass shattered and I felt heat across my face," she said.

When Deneuau saw the glass and blood she thought she had been shot, but when she realized the car was out of control, she looked at Hamel. "He had a large bullet hole at the side of his head," Deneuau said.

After the car made it across the highway, passing oncoming traffic, it stopped at the guard rail.

Deneuau said she knew her cousin would die quickly from the nature of the injury. "I reassured him that I was OK and that I would take care of his pets and I told him that I loved him," she said.

Family members say the nature of Hamel's death is especially ironic because he had volunteered to work at a Tennessee facility for wayward teens shortly before the shooting.

Teens Plead Guilty, Lawsuit Filed

The teenage shooters, who each pleaded guilty to reckless homicide, aggravated assault and reckless endangerment, will be held at a state juvenile detention center until they turn 19. The law in Tennessee allows them to remain in the custody of the state Department of Children's Services until they are 19, but no longer.

In written statements, the boys expressed remorse for their actions.

"I will always hate myself for what I did. I am so sorry," wrote William Buckner.

"I didn't want to hurt anyone," wrote Joshua Buckner. "This will be with me the rest of my life."

The Hamel family hired attorney Jack Thompson and filed suit Thursday against TAKE2interactive, the video game maker. Thompson says it's time to send a message to the video game makers.

"We want to send a message with a huge verdict to Sony and TAKE2interactive and the entire video game industry that if they're going to continue to market adult-rated games to children with these horrific consequence, then we're going to take their blood money from them and send a message to their boards that they have to stop this practice or there will be other suits on behalf of other people, killed by these games," Thompson said.

TAKE2interactive declined to comment to Good Morning America about the incident.

Are Parents the Gatekeepers?

It's not the first time the game Grand Theft Auto has been linked to bouts of real-life violence.

A gang of teenagers in California, charged with plotting carjackings and murder, say their actions were inspired by playing Grand Theft Auto, morning, noon, and night.

In Oakland, Calif., a group of young people who called themselves the "Nut Cases" told police they played violent video games before going out and robbing and killing random victims on the street. They said their favorite was Grand Theft Auto. The five men and one woman are facing charges in dozens of robberies and five killings that took place in 2002 and early 2003.

The Entertainment Software Association, which represents the video game industry, pointed to research showing that youth crime has gone down even as video games have proliferated. The games are rated for violence, and ultimately, parents make the decisions about what games they bring into their homes, the association said in a statement.

"Parents are present at and involved in the purchase or rental of games 83 percent of the time, according to a September 2000 Federal Trade Commission report," the association said.

Family members of those killed in video game-related shooting sprees say it is time to take Grand Theft Auto off the market, before more lives are lost.

Bede, who says she will never fully recover from the incident that left bullet fragments in her body, isn't satisfied with the sentence the Buckner boys received. "I really don't think they got what they deserve," she said.


Copyright 2003 ABC News.* All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistribute

Cronuus
09-07-2003, 07:28 AM
Blame video games, blame movies, blame TV, blame media or blame fucking the planets' alignments, BUT FFS do not blame the parents or the dumbshits who actually did this!~~ It can't possibly be their fault right?

Adiene
09-07-2003, 11:40 AM
http://morbidmystic.homestead.com/files/yeahthat.gif

zenrkscallytail
09-07-2003, 03:53 PM
and people dont see a problem with our court system.


i hate this flood thing i have to wait 60 seconds between posts

Boneskin
09-07-2003, 07:25 PM
once again. ive said it before and ill say it again: "people dont like taking responsibility for thier actions". and when i say this im not specifically blaming the kids. Im blaming the piece of shit parents that werent raising thier kids and instead spending thier time doing other things. Thats why i believe the parents should be held somewhat responsible and sent to prison for 10 years or so for accessory to murder. This will send a strong message to people that having kids is serious and not just something to be taken lightly like buying a dog.

Prezto
09-07-2003, 07:38 PM
Yeah. I bought my 2 year old son some dinosaur toys from Playskool. I have already warned him about the dangers of paleogenetic engineering.

I pray to God that he doesn't create a whorde of ravenous, flesh eating dinosaurs that go kill a bunch of people who's children play violent games and raze highschools with AK 47's and explosives.

COUNTER TERRORISTS WIN!

Slant Earthshaker
09-07-2003, 07:49 PM
I keep hearing about this game, I need to try it, it must be frickin awesome!

I hope Im not highly impressionable.

Master Damoiel Mindbend
Retired Enchanter of the 60th Season

KiradureAtani
09-07-2003, 09:42 PM
COUNTER TERRORISTS WIN!

Made my day.

Talari
09-07-2003, 11:40 PM
rush bombsite!!

Willgatus Airslasher
09-08-2003, 01:14 AM
Next thing you know, there will be a lawsuit against Sony because some kid tried to entirely imitate his EQ diet of water and muffins, which led him to die of scurvy after a while.

That, or someone will jump off a cliff after playing Lemmings...

Seriously, these folks are fucked up in the head to begin with. I mean I'm far more bloodthirsty than the average person (who needs the beneficial traits in Fallout games? Bloody Mess > all), and I've played Vice City for a few days (it gets boring pretty quickly). Have I killed anything yet IRL? Only time and roaches.

Prezto
09-08-2003, 02:48 AM
I worry about 20k'ing by stepping off of my front porch(....foundation to sidewalk is only 4 inches...). I have already placed the Dallas "Dream Team" on retainer in the event that the Chinese OR SOE decide to start toying with gravity again.

Hi ho.

Nydia Ywalmoriel
09-08-2003, 03:00 AM
It's really strange how, for some kids, the line between fantasy and reality can get really blurred, and they really half-think they're taking part in some sort of glamorous video game or TV show when they undertake some of these stunts. A good friend of mine is a trauma nurse at Parkland Hospital in Dallas (busiest trauma unit in the country btw, he has seen it all and regales us with stories from time to time ;) ), and recalls one situation where they brought a couple of kids in (16 and 17) who had been involved in a gang-related shooting. The older kid (who had been the much luckier of the two) had taken a small caliber bullet in the arm and was screaming and crying for my friend to do something about it - as much shocked and outraged as hurt. My friend told him 'Of course it hurts, you've been shot - we'll have you in surgery shortly.' Frustrated, the young man screamed at him: 'But it hurts!!' - as if he hadn't imagined that, you know, bullets injure and kill people...

I think that the difference between the pre-video age and today is not that people were any less stupid (gangsters were glorified in my grandmother's age, and she shared a few stories of her friends' adventures in bootlegging), but that kids are a lot more affluent and mobile, a larger proportion of them can get into potentially deadly trouble if left unsupervised, and perhaps more importantly, when someone does something crazy like this, it's splashed (glorified) all over the news immediately. One thing that *does* disturb me about the video age is that the immediacy of coverage and our obsession with notoriety aggrevates the already heavy self-involved tendency of adolescents; that it's all about them, and that somehow they are 'special', untouchable, and immortal...

While I don't think putting games like 'Grand theft auto' or other really violent games, or violent movies, in front of young children is a good idea (why can't our television be like it is in Europe, with strict controls on violence, and some nice healthy nudity and occasional sex shown instead?), but kids, especially boys, will engage in violent fantasy play just because... they're kids, and are working out issues of aggression and control.

When my friend Christina and I played with our troll dolls as little girls (you know, those little things with the belly buttons and the big shock of neon hair coming out of their heads), *our* trolls had this whole tribal society thing going on, and woe be unto any human dolls who trespassed onto the land of the trolls! 'Punishment' for the poor little dollies included tying them to pencils stuck in styrofoam platforms to simulate stakes and a pool of ink drawn around them to simulate gasoline, and they would be 'burned at the stake' (or decapitated, or any number of several other torments, sending them to the 'laboratory' for experiments was also common) for their sacrelege... We did this not because we had seen it on some monster movie or whatnot (although acting out horror movies was a favorite pasttime of my little sister and I), but because we got some sort of fiendish glee out of the power dynamics of it...

Somehow, despite this, we managed to come out alright, and never grew up to tie anyone to a stake and set them on fire or switch their body parts around. In fact, I ended up leaving a lucrative assistantship to graduate school many years later because I could not bring myself to go into work for another day and inflict suffering on other creatures for what I believed to be insufficient cause, and refused to take another one because it would have required that I perform vivisection. Somehow we managed to figure out that suffering was a real thing, and not something that you want to inflict on yourself or others, and I think that a certain amount of fantasy play and experimentation by kids in this area is necessary for them to internalize this properly... Raising 'violence free' children is simply not possible; if you take away their toy guns, they'll just use sticks, etc.

Kids will act out whatever fantasies they can dream up and get away with, and some children are more prone to 'blurring' the line between fantasy and reality than others. My opinion: If they don't learn, early, that real actions have real consequences, some of them are going to grow up and act out their fantasies unchecked - and the onus of that is on the parents, in toddlerhood.

Bleh, too long, I'm stuck at work tonight, and the hierarchy of procrastination has reared its ugly head again... ;) .

Regards,
Nydia Ywalmoriel
Autonomous Collective

JazyaVechette
09-08-2003, 10:53 PM
The fact that you're stuck@work wouldn't be related to the multiple longer-than-normal posts you've made today, would it Nyd?

I'll have to disagree with you though - I don't think that the 'kids' go shooting at cars for attention. I think they do it because they're bored as hell, got a hold of daddy's gun, and thought they wouldn't get caught.

At 16 and 17, IMO they should be tried as adults for what they did.

Nydia Ywalmoriel
09-08-2003, 11:39 PM
Heh, actually at home now, taking a break before having to go back up to campus - but yes, I was thoroughly irritated at having to grade papers on a Sunday night last night and was dragging it out as long as possible... ;) I've also got a case of the nerves because I can't get ahold of a live body at my local social security office, and I just got a letter from the national office showing that the idiots counted my graduate assistantship as work for purposes of determining when I went off of it, meaning that they want a bunch of money back that they paid me /sigh).

And re your hypothesis, you could be right - as a child I once watched neighbor kids throw rocks and dirt clods at cars off a bridge for kicks, assuming that they wouldn't get caught, then run scampering for the hills when the person stopped the car to come after them. I was also party to, uhm, a bit of teenage vandalism of the wooden practice sword and blinking wooden traffic marker (they have been replaced by plastic barrels now), smacked while leaning out the window of a moving car variety. But if these quotes from the kids are in any way sincere, they seemed genuinely shocked that, you know, they could have hurt someone by firing a shotgun at them (laughs)... I think that there may have been some sort of suspension of disbelief as well as callous stupidity involved in that stunt - cars tend to dehumanize how we view folks inside them, and maybe they really *were* for that moment too stupid and naive to believe that they could really kill someone by their actions.

Regardless of where the failure was, I agree wholeheartedly with you that they should be prosecuted though.

Regards,
Nydia Ywalmoriel
Autonomous Collective

Haloface
09-09-2003, 12:10 AM
'Next thing you know, there will be a lawsuit against Sony because some kid tried to entirely imitate his EQ diet of water and muffins, which led him to die of scurvy after a while.'

- Heheheh

Carabella Valenteen
09-10-2003, 01:33 AM
*looks up as she brushes muffin crumbs from her skirt*

.... what?

ThePerfectFlaw
09-10-2003, 02:50 AM
I grew up on the atari game Adventure.

I'm still trying to find the goddamn black key to get the chalice. 8(

aesahaetr
09-14-2003, 07:19 AM
:rollin

my intended avatar,that for some reason won`t seem to work

http://home.tiscali.nl/anime_avatars/avatars/made%20by%20me/Vegeta/vegeta14.gif

DiscW
09-15-2003, 02:50 AM
People are stupid. That's one of my motto's in life.

and...

(why can't our television be like it is in Europe, with strict controls on violence, and some nice healthy nudity and occasional sex shown instead?),

Because sex is THE DEVIL AND IS HORRIBLE FOR THE CHILDREN. The moral majority here doesn't follow any logic. Violence has generally been at least tollerated on television, going to many various extremes without too many problems, but a breast on tv is never allowed unless it's a medical show(even then rarely) or an african tribe documentary/movie. Heck, gays are only recently being accepted by the mainstream on television, and only through stereotyping.

It just doesn't make any sense. I will say it is slowly going away due to "boundry pushing" and such, but it will take a long while before we're near anything logical when it comes to violence vs sex.

Jakkala
09-15-2003, 03:33 PM
Grand Theft Auto, a video game that allows players to "fire" on people and cars in realistic, shoot-'em-up fashion,

What kind of person would describe GTA as realistic?

trimlock
09-15-2003, 05:16 PM
i know when i get shot, i'm going to run around looking for hearts, or med packs just floating in a random spot to heal me up

aesahaetr
09-17-2003, 05:22 AM
What kind of person would describe GTA as realistic?

Certainly not me :) it`s about as realistic as mario,i mean after playing mario did kids go around looking for green shrooms to eat ? :b

The Getaway was an attempt at a realistic GTA and it was fucking shite.

Laeyakk
09-19-2003, 06:30 PM
In written statements, the boys expressed remorse for their actions.

"I will always hate myself for what I did. I am so sorry," wrote William Buckner.

"I didn't want to hurt anyone," wrote Joshua Buckner. "This will be with me the rest of my life."

Written statements, probably generated with the aid and advise of a lawyer, for the purposes of sentancing.

Any lawyer that let them NOT write up a bunch of remorse would be committing malpractice.

I figure they where just a pair of young sociopaths. Almost everyone has vague memories of when they didn't really understand that other people really are other people, and that they matter. Or at least have a healthy fear of getting caught.

Most people grow out of it by the time they get their hands on a gun. These kids didn't.

But, as noted, the rise of computer game entertainment (much of it violent) and the fall in crime rates are both happening. Using this to justify banning of violent games seems questionable.

Computer games provide a source low cost entertainment. And boredom more than anything else is what leads to a culture of youth violence -- those kids shot at cars because they wanted amusement, not for any benefitial side effects of killing people. Or so goes my theory.

And yes, those kids where idiots.

Too bad the people in the cars didn't have weapons -- they could have fired back, and stopped this horrible tragedy.

Xyln
09-19-2003, 07:43 PM
I wonder why those only choose to reinact violent games?

Why don't we ever hear of a kid going buckwild dressing peopel up like a barbie doll or going on a Mary-Kate and Ashly shoping spree,or getting Clifford to clean up all the trash in Emiliy's backyard!?

Nydia Ywalmoriel
09-19-2003, 07:57 PM
Dear Xyln:

It's curious, isn't it? But believe me, those sorts of things (forced dressup/makeup sessions, etc) happen all the time, especially in your local sorority house or at any junior high aged slumber party. As a rather plain and geeky girl (and a late bloomer, to boot), I was often targeted for such things by my 'well-meaning' friends. As teenaged girls also tend to have a mean streak, especially in sorting out the social pecking order, these 'makeover' sessions sometimes got downright sadistic (laughs). But your post does conjure up images of crazed adolescent budding drag-queen hairdressers, running rampant across the landscape forcibly bleaching and teasing folks...

Regards,
Nydia Ywalmoriel
Autonomous Collective

mirdorr
09-19-2003, 08:44 PM
I have GOT to make more time in my life for sorority houses.

Kreoshin
09-19-2003, 10:13 PM
its a good time investment mir...im surrounded by 3 sorority houses:)