Welcome to the struggle of all species to be free.

We are the burning rage of this dying planet. The war of greed ravages the earth and species die out every day. ELF works to speed up the collapse of industry, to scare the rich, and to undermine the foundations of the state. We embrace social and deep ecology as a practical resistance movement. We have to show the enemy that we are serious about defending what is sacred. Together we have teeth and claws to match our dreams. Our greatest weapons are imagination and the ability to strike when least expected.

Since 1992, a series of earth nights and halloween smashes has mushroomed around the world. 1000's of bulldozers, powerlines, computer systems, buildings and valuable equipment have been composted. Many ELF actions have been censored to prevent our bravery from inciting others to take action.

We take inspiration from the Luddites, Levellers, Diggers, the Autonome squatter movement, ALF, the Zapatistas, and the little people -- those mischievous elves of lore. Authorities can't see us because they don't believe in elves. We are practically invisible. We have no command structure, no spokespersons, no office, just many small groups working separately, seeking vulnerable targets and parcticing our craft.

Many elves are moving to the Pacific Northwest and other sacred areas. Some elves will leave surprises as they go. Find your family! And let's dance as we make ruins of the corporate money system.

Form 'stormy night' action groups, encourage friends you trust. A tight community of love is a poweful force.

Recon -- check out targets that fit your plan and go over what you will do

Attack --

powerlines: cut supporting cables, unbolt towers, and base supports, saw wooden poles.

transformers: shoot out, bonfires, throw metal chains on top, or blow them up.

computers: smash, burn or flood buildings.


www.foxnews.com/story/0,2...47,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,95447,00.html)

www.earthliberationfront.com/main.shtml (http://www.earthliberationfront.com/main.shtml)

20 vehicles destroyed, more damaged. Over a million dollars worth of damage plus hits on 3 other dealerships where they sprayed graffiti with ecoblah crap on SUVs.

To me, the most interesting thing is domestic terrorism of this sort isn't news evidently...fox being the only national news that reported on it.

Shoot to kill the liberal "extreme" tree huggers if they think they are going to burn my 4x4.


Ibudin

Touch my shit and pay.

These people take Eco WAY too far.

If I still had that series II they be eating my 255/65-16's. Roadkill optional.

Yea I saw that. Makes me sick.

Those bastards should be dealt with just like any other terrorist org.

Eco terrorism?

Is that like the time in South Park where Butters turns into an evil guy and tries to flood the world with a gardenhose?

I can't remember what Butters called himself :(

Evil Professor CHAOS!

ya that makes alot of damn sense....protect the eco system...burn all those vehicals and send all that nice toxic smoke from the burning into the air...morons

Can I be General Dissaray?

I for one fucking hate liberal tree-hugging hippies, they should be shot... they dont contribute to society at all and they want us to save trees...

A wise man once said "They say they want to save trees, but all they do is smoke pot and smell bad" Yes thats from Eric Cartman (:

Next they are going to protest zoo's and how humans took them from their homelands. "0mg d0n't g0 t0 z00's and sup0rt th0se stupid humans!"

http://www.msnbc.com/c/0/148/836/10x7/030408_war_12.jpg
god plz take a shower you make me sick.. BUT DON'T WASTE WATER!!! ITS ONLY THE WORLDS MOST UBUNDANT REASORCE ON THE PLANET!!!

Am I the only one that approves their actions? (I prolly have Echelon logging this by now :p ) Stuff (mostly) get done with violence, and I think pollution is baad mkay, especially the mostly useless one made by SUVs used by soccer moms and white collars that are scared to drive on gravel...

To me, the most interesting thing is domestic terrorism of this sort isn't news evidently...fox being the only national news that reported on it.

Terrorist groups like these thrive on publicity.
The more you give it to them the more they like it.
Not giving any media attention to them is a strategy to discourage them from these actions.
Not sure if it works though.

Am I the only one that approves their actions?

I hope so and frankly I’m surprised someone still approves of terrorism.

Stuff (mostly) get done with violence.

Sure and when you get what you want through violence, the people who just lost what they want, are gonne step back and try to get it back peacefully. Dream on.
Violence leads to more violence.
In the end there are only losers.

and I think pollution is baad mkay, especially the mostly useless one made by SUVs used by soccer moms and white collars that are scared to drive on gravel...

Pollution is bad violence is worse IMO, so it’s just a case of changing one bad for something even worse.


Really I do not have any sympathy for anyone that does these things.
To me they are just as evil as terrorists.
Hell they are terrorists.

Not giving any media attention to them is a strategy to discourage them from these actions.


Actually I think it has alot more to do with the fact that their basic views, although taken to extremes, are the same views projected by the majority of other media outlets.

Ok, they're completely stupid, they want to help the earth by destroying equipment which causes junk and smoke and such, and makes a need for new equipment to be made which will use more energy and make more polution, Smart...

Am I the only one that approves their actions? (I prolly have Echelon logging this by now ) Stuff (mostly) get done with violence, and I think pollution is baad mkay, especially the mostly useless one made by SUVs used by soccer moms and white collars that are scared to drive on gravel...

Fuck you. You are a god damm gutless pussy. Tell me how you support this. Do you donate money to terrorists, do you help them commit the crimes.

No you just sit in your home and yell amen brother!

I can support some forms of protest. But you have to take the responsibility for your actions. You need to stand up and say I DID IT. That was the hallmark of Dr Kings stand against racism and it worked.

Post your name and address and maybe I will give you some respect. Otherwise shut the fuck up.

The people who did this need to be hung. They are terrorists.

Yah... STRIKE A BLOW TO... uh... the insurance company for that car lot. I'm sure the guy will just throw up his hands and give up selling cars, and GM will stop making them because a few jackasses tossed paint on some and set them on fire.

Popi-

The worst part is these morons don't really believe their own rhetoric deep down. They just are looking to enjoy a little destruction and get a kick out of publicity.

If they were truly so radically pro-environment and anti-technology, they would not rely on environment damaging methods to make their point. As was pointed out, burning down buildings thereby releasing toxic chemicals into the atmosphere is hardly environmentally friendly. They rely on computers to publicize their pyromania. They spray cars with aerosol paint. They probably drove to the site with a gas guzzling SUV or pickup to haul all their accellerant and paint to commit their vandalisms.

These are the same twits who flushed cherry bombs down the toilets in high school. They try to wrap themselves in the mantle of environmental guerillas but they pretty much look like blowhard firebugs to me. They are not worthy of any respect.

'Post your name and address and maybe I will give you some respect'

- You are *so* cool.

Those bastards should be dealt with just like any other terrorist org.
Agree.


I for one fucking hate liberal tree-hugging hippies, they should be shot... they dont contribute to society at all and they want us to save trees...
Talari, you never cease to amaze me. First of all, I don't believe these people even count as hippies-- I don't think they believe the first thing about their cause, for the plethora of reasons Gulor pointed it. They aren't earth-conscientious in any of their doings, and a real liberal peace-loving hippy would understand that such actions against society are in fact not even close to progressive, but instead retroactive. Even if they should be lucky enough to get away with it, on a philosophical sense, they are fighting the system by little blows, which the system deems unnecessary and grants them, and while they feel they progress by taking concrete and physical actions, the system merely elevates itself to a controlling position over this group of people by generating a public disliking for them. Instead of something productive like generating awareness or something that wouldn't incite distaste in people, they've done something destructive, and are just setting their cause back. For that reason, I agree with Gulor-- they don't really want to change anything, they just want a machine to rage against.

Second of all, even hippies do contribute to society, in fact, possibly even moreso than you. But I have a feeling your notion of society stems merely from the capitalistic sense that money is equivalent to society, and therefore by not governing large corporations, they are doing nothing. Social programs probably have no meaning to you, nor do any form of civil liberties or social justice, which countless numbers of "hippies" participate in.

Next they are going to protest zoo's and how humans took them from their homelands. "0mg d0n't g0 t0 z00's and sup0rt th0se stupid humans!"
Hopefully this isn't too common, and if it is... just know that not that many "hippies" want animals freed from zoos. I never really had a stance on this, but Yann Martel's Life of Pi, while really not having much to do with this, does give some interesting and persuasive reasoning against the argument you just listed. But like I said, I don't think very many hippies are actively protesting zoos atm.


god plz take a shower you make me sick.. BUT DON'T WASTE WATER!!! ITS ONLY THE WORLDS MOST UBUNDANT REASORCE ON THE PLANET!!!
Perhaps you weren't aware that some parts of the world are actually rather low on water. The worlds most abundant resource it may be, but have you ever tried drinking salt water sunshine? Didn't think so. Go try it, tell me how that turns out. If you live in Arizona, which I do, you'll know there are some measures taken to prevent water waste, and the low flush toilets, to name one, aren't just for your health.
Water conservation might seem ludacris in a place like Minnesota for example, but sometimes there is legitimacy. Regardless, very few people actually are serious when u are at a drinking fountain and they say "Save the whales", so don't worry ;) .

On another note, would you explain the relevancy of your picture? Or if there is any other than belittling a person's appearance? Thats really cool how you do that sitting behind a computer dude. I wish I had the balls you did, I really do.





Actually I think it has alot more to do with the fact that their basic views, although taken to extremes, are the same views projected by the majority of other media outlets.
I disagree. I don't think there are lesser shades of such anarchistic(I may have made up a word...) actions such as these. There may be beliefs that are quite liberal minded, but this is to an extreme that even those liberal minded couldn't slightly support unless they completely agreed with it. I don't think the media, which is only as liberal as its conservative owners, of course ;) , supports such actions in the least. While they may agree with some environmental issues, they don't try to keep this from getting press because they're afraid they'll hurt the people's cause (which it would), but because it'd hurt their (the group's) cause even moreso if nobody found out about it and it was as if nothing happened.



I can support some forms of protest. But you have to take the responsibility for your actions. You need to stand up and say I DID IT. That was the hallmark of Dr Kings stand against racism and it worked.
Couldn't agree more. Its disheartening that many protests are done differently.

I don't think the media, which is only as liberal as its conservative owners


That's laughable.

How far have you really looked into that? Ever read Bernard Goldberg's book on the subject for example?

Thought not.

But like I said, I don't think very many hippies are actively protesting zoos atm.
thats not directed at hippies... just people in general, adn i was just trying to bring up the fact that people will whine about EVErYTHING! If people kepted their ideas and religious beliefs and so on to themselves.. the world would be a much safer place.

If people kepted their ideas and religious beliefs and so on to themselves.. the world would be a much safer placeRight. And we'd still be living in an oppressive feudal society believing the world was flat, with slavery and women would have no rights....if we made it that far. Social change requires some amount of speaking out and taking action. This view drives me nuts - the assumption that everyone should keep their opinions to themselves and just do what we've always done means assuming that your views are right, or at least good enough that you don't have to change.

Not that I in any way advocate what these idiots did. As noted above, all they managed to do was pollute a bit more and waste some insurance company's time, as well as piss a lot of people off at their cause.

Real social change requires something completely different from terrorism.


-Kanyli

/cheers at Kanyli

Here is how you quoted me:
don't think the media, which is only as liberal as its conservative owners

And here is how it is written in context:
I don't think the media, which is only as liberal as its conservative owners, of course ;) , supports such actions in the least.
While the idea is the same in the two quotes, your half-quoting of my sentance would lead one to believe my tone is rather different than it, in actuality, is. Instead of my full sentence, which with the obviously joking "of course" along with a winking smiley face, would lead one to believe that I'm saying that more as a joke than anything serious, whereas your exerpt of my sentence is me saying in a cut and dry way, "The media is actually really conservative". Do they say the same thing? Yes. Do they mean the same thing? No. So instead of me having to show you how your selective quoting was obviously just your dislike of me and the resulting desire to try whatever necessary to make your intellect appear superior, next time choose a battle with me that has more of a significance.



thats not directed at hippies... just people in general, adn i was just trying to bring up the fact that people will whine about EVErYTHING! If people kepted their ideas and religious beliefs and so on to themselves.. the world would be a much safer place.
Oh man. I believe Kanyli covered that well.

Real social change involves changing the morals of a society:

Be it by force, litigation, scientific discovery or a slow drift away from an idea.

History will show that most radical social changes came about by force. Does anyone care to argue?

Social change is (at least in my view) being seriously impaired in the United States by all of the Conservative Christians here.

Social change is (at least in my view) being seriously impaired in the United States by all of the Conservative Christians here

Social change is being inspired by the Conservative Christians here. If they keep going the way they are they'll stay Conservative, lose the Christian and be forcefully responded to by socially responsible people of many faiths....including Christians.

militant christianity pisses me off as much as militant evironmentalism.

If you mean by force of arms, I guess I would have to disagree somewhat. One of the largest changes in western society was the industrial revolution. It was not imposed by force of arms but rather by the perceived benefits by most western nations.

The spread of literacy is another example. It became desirable to be able to read and write over a long period of time as the advantages became apparent, it was not forced on people at bayonet point.

Attitudes can be changed without the use of force when the benefits of change become apparent.

With regards to your other point about the conservative Christians holding back social change in the US, that sort of depends on your perspective. In their view, secularists are holding back change to a more moral society, i.e. a Christianity based society. Change can go in either direction don't forget.

In the struggle between ideas, we should avoid imposing a view by force as much as possible. Hard to do I know when the views are so divergent.

If you mean by force of arms, I guess I would have to disagree somewhat. One of the largest changes in western society was the industrial revolution. It was not imposed by force of arms but rather by the perceived benefits by most western nations...

That is a big one... but I said "most" not biggest. Know what else the Industrial Revolution was good for? Being able to equip and field bigger armies!

Also, "Western Society" was (to a large degree) spread at swordpoint by the Romans.

Christianity? hmmmm... a bit tougher, but it still involved a lot of swords and later on, guns.

The Elimination of entire moral structures, cultures, languages and societies in North America by Europeans?
Firearms and the intentional spread of disease > What the natives had to resist.

Hell, when you get right down to it, a large secion of India was changed when European based culture (and language) flooded into it a super long time ago.

Communism in Russia?
Force of arms.

The end of slavery in the US?
Force of Arms.

But wait! It is not limited to the "Western" cultures.

Communism in China?
Force of arms.
The spread of the Muslim faith in the middle ages?
Force of arms.

Those are flashy examples and certainly are true, but they may not constitute "most". A lot of other less glamorous changes to culture happen all the time, all with no violence involved. Take fashions, music, fads, slang, etc. all into account and you begin to see that a great deal of less remarked upon change is constantly ongoing. Some of it was/is driven by conquest, but much of it is not. In today's world I suspect that the communication revolution has a far greater effect than any war you care to name.

The notion of what is acceptable behavior changes from generation to generation. Take for example the right for women to vote. No wars were fought over this in the US, yet it is a fundamental change that happened over a number of years simply because the expectations of people changed. I attribute that to education, not any force you care to name.

Changes in attitude and behavior are often slow and subtle, but they are everywhere, all the time. Over the course of a single generation they can add up to a significant difference in the way people feel, act and see their surroundings. Wars/force certainly do have a major effect, but I maintain that they are only a part of the equation and probably are as much a result of change as a cause of change.

You are not arguing against the point I made.

History will show that most radical social changes came about by force.

Slow does not equal radical. I agree that *most* social change happens slowly- RADICAL social change happens suddenly, usualy at the end of a sword or a rifle.

Even your so called radical changes due to war can take generations. The decline of the Indian culture in the US took several hundred years. The spread of latin throughout the Roman's conquests did not happen overnight either. War is no faster in social change than nonviolent processes, except in those situations where the loser is wiped out. It just seems like a short time because you can point to a particular change and say "look, that is because of the war". It is less nebulous than the constant changes we undergo simply as a result of being exposed to other ideas.

For example, the change in Germany from a nazi dictatorship to its current state did not happen in a year. It took many years to effect and is still ongoing in some ways, driven by ideas that are not forced upon them from outside. Japan also took years to develop into what we recognize as modern Japan after the war.

I just thought of another example....take the advances in medicine. One year polio is a tangible fear in the population of the US, the next year *poof*, it has been defeated.

Look at the attitudes towards smoking. In my lifetime I have seen it move from being the norm, even glorified to a situation where smokers are practically 2nd class citizens. No force caused that shift in outlook.

AIDS is another example. One year people are happily humping everything that comes their way without a care in the world, a couple years later AIDS is discovered and the whole scene changes.

I would consider all of these drastic changes, at least on the scale of what you claim war driven changes to be.

Even your so called radical changes due to war can take generations. The decline of the Indian culture in the US took several hundred years. The spread of Latin throughout the Roman's conquests did not happen overnight either. War is no faster in social change than nonviolent processes, except in those situations where the loser is wiped out
Several hundreds of years? Possibly from colonization, but it took a generation once "manifest destiny" was invoked to wipe out a good portion of the remaining influence. Look at it this way" within one or two generations, the power structure and culture of the Western US changed.

For example, the change in Germany from a Nazi dictatorship to its current state did not happen in a year.
No... but the change from Nazi Dictatorship to "so sorry, we won't do that again" would not have happened without the war. Also, the change INTO a Nazi Dictatorship *may* not have happened without the first world war. Chicken, egg.

Japan also took years to develop into what we recognize as modern Japan after the war.
Japan, which had for hundreds of years rolled ahead, preserving its culture, suddenly had a change of heart about some very basic things when they lost World War Two.

It took many years to effect and is still ongoing in some ways, driven by ideas that are not forced upon them from outside.

I think the Japanese got a very strong dose of Western culture and Christianity force fed on them after WWII... Quite a shift from where they were before the war. While it might take years and years for those ideas to fully take fruit, the fact of the matter is without some very strong intervention, the ideas never would have *begun* to shift in the first place.

I'm not saying that non-violent means are inferior, nor am I saying that non-violent means can not change things almost overnight (especially in the case of technology, though a LOT of technology has its root in military applications

Then you are arguing my point :)

IMO we overlook a lot of what changes happen from mundane causes because, well, they are not that interesting. Wars are more interesting, or at least more dramatic so we tend to pay more attention to them.

The whole thing that started our discussion was a statement that most drastic social change comes from the use of force. I don't think we can accurately quantify just how much drastic change has happened and then assign a force or non force cause to it to really decide what "most" is.I suspect we will have to agree to disagree.

In the original topic, ELF is claiming that force is the best way to change society into what they want. I simply am throwing the bullshit flag on that notion. I don't believe they really give a rat's ass about what they are claiming is their motivation.

I suspect we will have to agree to disagree.

No, I agreed with a lot of your points before I made my first post. I just like to argue (in the true sense of the word). I find a good argument will often increase my understanding of a subject, ESPECIALLY if I take the side against what I am trying to learn more about.

The main caveat to that method is having someone with a good grasp of the subject to argue with.

edit: fixed dumb spelling error.

Hope I filled the bill. Have a great Labor Day weekend folks.