This is getting to be too sad of a joke on the American public now. Cheney, who claimed executive privilege in refusing to release information regarding his meetings with energy company CEO's, now is claiming (or his aides are) that he is actually as president of the Senate and paid through them exempt from rules that apply to the Executive branch. He is in effect a member of the legislative branch. Which way is it, fer Christ's sake?

And, he is also refusing to share communications which are required by law, for the purpose of oversight. This man really needs to be kicked out of office.
He has been and is becoming increasingly more of an embarrassment to the principles and laws on which this country was founded.

He's essentially claiming to be a fourth branch, not subject to oversight than even the Executive has heeded (hell, that the Executive ordered). He's not just an embarrassment, he's a destructive force that's lurked behind many of this administration's follies over the years.

Here's Section 1 of the Constitution, btw:Section 1. The executive power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his office during the term of four years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen for the same term, be elected, as follows:Seems clear enough, doesn't it?

EDIT: Bush decides he's also not part of the executive branch (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-cheney23jun23,1,2991960.story?track=crosspromo&page=1&coll=la-headlines-nation&ctrack=1&cset=true):WASHINGTON — The White House said Friday that, like Vice President Dick Cheney's office, President Bush's office is not allowing an independent federal watchdog to oversee its handling of classified national security information.

An executive order that Bush issued in March 2003 — amending an existing order — requires all government agencies that are part of the executive branch to submit to oversight. Although it doesn't specifically say so, Bush's order was not meant to apply to the vice president's office or the president's office, a White House spokesman said.

Washington, D.C. House Democratic Caucus Chairman Rahm Emanuel issued the following statement regarding his amendment to cut funding for the Office of the Vice President from the bill that funds the executive branch. The legislation -- the Financial Services and General Government Appropriations bill -- will be considered on the floor of the House of Representatives next week. "The Vice President has a choice to make. If he believes his legal case, his office has no business being funded as part of the executive branch. However, if he demands executive branch funding he cannot ignore executive branch rules. At the very least, the Vice President should be consistent. This amendment will ensure that the Vice President's funding is consistent with his legal arguments. I have worked closely with my colleagues on this amendment and will continue to pursue this measure in the coming days."

In my firm opinion, even though I have no proof but the look on the guys face and the words that come from his mouth, I believe it to be true...Cheney has more power than Bush will ever have. We are not suppose to see or know that though. He is one of those big fish we will never get caught in corruption charges. Politics are so much fun!! ........NOT :(

Cheney has more power than Bush will ever have. We are not suppose to see or know that though. He is one of those big fish we will never get caught in corruption charges. :(


If the elected folks in the Senate and House ever get the balls to investigate Cheney, he could face impeachment I am sure, but also possible charges of aiding and abetting an enemy of the United States. Remember, he circumvented the sanctions in place against Iran by both the US and the UN in order to make a profit; and, I STILL want to know if he (as CEO at the time) and Halliburton had any involvement in the construction of the Iranian nuclear program, or the required infrastructure. Strip the sleaze-bag"s citizenship and send him to Guantanamo with the rest of the enemy prisoners.

What I don't get is why he HASN'T been investigated yet. How much evidence does it take to push something like that over? I'm very disappointed in the Dems actions so far, based on their promises pre-election. The only reason these things don't get investigated is when it comes down to party lines. The mere fact that Cheney and Co. are refusing to follow oversight rules should be immediate grounds for an investigation.

My real fear is that the next election will roll around and we'll end up with someone like Cheney as president, or the Democrats will elect someone and this will all be swept under the rug - I get the feeling these guys will never have to own up for their actions.

The Dems are playing nice right now, as this has just started. Hopefully they don't play nice for too long. While the bulk of the country doesn't seem interested in giving Congress back to the Republicans, the Dems need to prove they can exert oversight effectively or they may lose out in their own primaries.

Slid into my email today:One morning a blind bunny was hopping down the bunny trail, and he tripped over a large snake and fell, KerPlop, right on his twitchy little nose.

"Oh, please excuse me!" said the bunny. "I didn't mean to trip over you, but I'm blind and can't see."

That's perfectly all right," replied the snake. "To be sure, it was my fault. I didn't mean to trip you, but I'm blind too, and I didn't see you coming. By the way, what kind of animal are you?"

"Well, I really don't know," said the bunny. "I'm blind, and I've never seen myself. Maybe you could examine me and find out."

So the snake felt the bunny all over, and he said, "Well, you're soft, and cuddly, and you have long silky ears, and a little fluffy tail and a dear twitchy little nose... You must be a bunny rabbit!"

The bunny said, "I can't thank you enough. But by the way, what kind of animal are you?"

The snake replied that he didn't know, and the bunny agreed to examine him, and when the bunny was finished, the snake said, "Well, what kind of an animal am I?"

The bunny had felt the snake all over, and he replied, "You're hard, you're cold, you're slimy, and you haven't got any balls... You must be a politician!

What I don't get is why he HASN'T been investigated yet.

Oh..I know why..Money = Power and Power = you can do anything you darn well want to and get away with it. IE...OJ Simpson.....man that guy even had DNA stacked against him and he still walked...did not make any sense to me.

So for Cheney not get to investigated makes no sense either but if he does get investigated it will only be when all his tracks have been covered and he comes out smelling like a rose no doubt.

LOL..Kan..nice joke..lol

"Here's Section 1 of the Constitution, btw: Quote:
Section 1. The executive power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his office during the term of four years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen for the same term, be elected, as follows:
Seems clear enough, doesn't it?"

That's from Section 1, Article 2. I'm not aware of this latest kerfuffle, but what is clear enough from that section? Executive power vested in President. Check. President term is four years. Check. VP term coincides with President term. Check. Both President and VP are elected according to the method set out in Article 2, Section 1. Check. Which of those points are you emphasizing?

As to the question of whether the VP is President of the Senate, he is. Article 1, Section 3 states the VP shall be President of the Senate without a vote unless the Senate is equally divided. I suppose that makes him subject to Senate rules if that is the issue at hand.

Which of those points are you emphasizing?I'm emphasizing a point that seems quite undisputed historically: that the OVP falls under the Executive portion of our branches of government. For the last several years, Cheney has disagreed (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-cheney22jun22,0,405085.story?coll=la-home-center). There is no dispute that the VPOTUS serves as President of the Senate -- our Constitution's way of providing a tie breaker for that body.

Cheney's assertion (http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2007_06_17-2007_06_23.shtml#1182489966) does indeed make him theoretically subject to the Senate's rules, but he has in the past asserted executive privilege in order to maintain secrecy (up to and including just who works in the VP office) Executive Order (http://www.archives.gov/isoo/policy-documents/eo-12958-amendment.html) and standards and traditions of the office.

EDIT: To add, the Washington Post has posted parts one (http://blog.washingtonpost.com/cheney/chapters/chapter_1/) and two (http://blog.washingtonpost.com/cheney/chapters/pushing_the_enevelope_on_presi/) of a four part series on Cheney and his term as VPOTUS.

I don't know whether it's been undisputed historically, but the part of the Constitution you cite doesn't readily support the conclusion.

I think the portion of the Constitution I cited, speaking as it does of where the executive power is vested, does readily support the conclusion, particularly as it appears in the article of the Constitution defining the Executive branch of government.

Im an outsider.
But isn't the basic premises for the US government that of three branches: Legislative (Congress), Judicial (Supreme Court) and Executive (Precidency)?
The Vice President is a politically appointed person within the executive branch, right?

Or did I miss the point somehow?

"The Vice President is a politically appointed person within the executive branch, right?"

No, the VP is elected. The VP serves as President of the Senate. All of the executive power, as cited by Thormir, resides in one person, the President.

Federalist Paper 68 provides one description of the position of VP and sums it up by stating:

"We have a Lieutenant-Governor, chosen by the people at large, who presides in the Senate, and is the constitutional substitute for the Governor, in casualties similar to those which would authorize the Vice-President to exercise the authorities and discharge the duties of the President."

The VP's only official function is president of the Senate, serving to break ties when necessary. It is also his responsibility to replace the President "In Case of the Removal of the President from Office, or of his Death, Resignation, or Inability to discharge the Powers and Duties of the said Office." He is yet a part of the Executive branch, or so it has seemed to everyone up until this point. Certainly, Cheney himself acted in this manner -- following laws and orders he now disdains -- until a few years ago.

But the Vice President and the President run for office under the same flag right?

That is normally the case. It is possible, though *extremely* unlikely, that the president and vice president may be from two different political parties even though they are running under one "ticket".

For example, Bloomberg (having just left the republican party) could theoretically be offered the VP position on a ticket by either the democratic candidate or the republican one.

Cheney claims executive privilege in denying access to the press of information, but then claims to not be part of the executive branch to avoid having to comply with the law. He is a freaking power-tripping slime ball who should be in Guantanamo, being as much a threat to our country as most of those imprisoned there.

I see. I think.

If the elected folks in the Senate and House ever get the balls to investigate Cheney, he could face impeachment I am sure, but also possible charges of aiding and abetting an enemy of the United States.

I am sure if Cheney was taken down there could be a big possibility that alot more folks would go down. I am sure folks in the house and senate do not want investigaters looking up their underwear......I could see it starting a political domino effect....ewwwww

This is quite possibly even more surreal than Bush's "when we're talking about war, what we're really talking about is peace" comment on the Stuff-That-Only-Happened-in-Dystopian-Fiction scale. While amazingly this has better constitutional grounding that a host of other administration activities, it makes about as much practical sense as circumlocuting an excuse for the Veep from gravity or thermodynamics.

'I see. I think.'


- Therefore I am?

Wasn't (is) Cheney tied up in the Haliburton scandal but got off due to being in office? Is that what Bylimet is referring to in his original post?

Cheney has long-standing ties to Halliburton, the "scandalousness" of which have yet to be realized politically or legally, and may never be.

EDIT: Part 3 of the Post's series on Cheney is here (http://blog.washingtonpost.com/cheney/chapters/a_strong_push_from_back_stage/index.html).

I think Bylimet is referring to Cheney claiming executive privilege for pretty much everything he doesn't want to talk about, which is a pretty long list.

Now that he's trying to fake his way out of the executive branch, doesn't that mean executive privilege no longer applies, and thus someone is about to receive 5 million subpoenas for documents? one can only hope.

Wasn't (is) Cheney tied up in the Haliburton scandal but got off due to being in office? Is that what Bylimet is referring to in his original post?

In another thread on these boards, I believe it was Lleauric who showed the trail of Cheney's involvement with the corrupt side of our nation's politics going back to the Ford administration. Cheney was involved in getting the legislation passed that would allow the military to contract out for services with companies such as Halliburton (and it's predecessor); then when he left government service he ends up being the CEO of Halliburton, surprise surprise; then while CEO, he and Halliburton establish off-shore offices to enable them to circumvent US and UN sanctions against doing business with Iran, who had killed American citizens and taken others hostage; then, as the new Vice President, he holds meetings to formulate energy policy with the CEO's of the major oil companies and refuses to share any information about those meetings due to executive privilege; then, after abandoning the pursuit of Bin Laden in Afghanistan to go after Saddam and his oil fields, Halliburton is given the contracts to rebuild Iraq, and even after being found to have overcharged and billed for work never done, they still got their contracts renewed.

Yes, that Cheney and Halliburton connection is part of my disgust with this administration. This administration has been a consistent embarassment to the nation, and Cheney continues to seek to elevate himself above any and all laws and oversights.

Fourth (http://blog.washingtonpost.com/cheney/chapters/leaving_no_tracks/index.html) and final Post installment in their series on Cheney. Spends a lot of time talking about environmental issues.

Not sure if this will work or not, but saw this cartoon in today's St Paul Pioneer Press on the editorial page.

Kivorn, Cheney still has vested interests in Halliburton, which by the way is also one of the primary civilian contractors handling such things as messing (which is the meals fed to the soldiers for you non military folks), construction, voice and data, and logistics in Iraq, Afghanistan and Africa. They are being very well paid to provide what many have claimed as being very poor service to our troops serving in these places as well as the governments of these countries. It really does have all the trappings of a vast swindle on a deadly and disproportionate scale. War tends to make those who wage the wars wealthy while those who fight the wars.... something quite a bit less.

Probably one of the things our government did not count on is the fact that yes they did have to pay to send 3500 fallen soldiers back air frieght, but they also are stuck paying for ALOT of casualties who inconvienced the government by SURVIVING. Modern battlefield medicine has probably kept the KIAs astronomically down, but soldiers who lose limbs or end up permanantly damaged get their regular military salary and medical benifits until they die. That is if the government feels they have to honor their obligations to do so. Oh, the hidden costs of war. Who pays?

So if you were before me right now, Mr. omnipotent VP all I would have to say is fuck you Mr. Cheney. Enjoy your blood money. Hopefully the taxes you pay...if you even pay taxes...will help pay for some of these SGLI payouts, medical expenses, funerals and the shipping to bring the fallen back.

Thanks Lummus, that was the "scandal" I was referring to. I remember seeing a brief documentary on swedish TV about the whole overbilling issue.

My question then is thus: Will Cheney be charged once out of officer? IE: Will he lose out on all the get out of jail free cards?

With Scooter Libby getting his sentence commutted, I think that answers your question about accountability within the current administration. Of course Cheney won't be charged. Even the opposing party won't do anything about it, knowing that it's just a matter of time until the Republicans would hold the power again. Neither party is above playing the revenge card.

Just one more lap around the toilet drain this country has been circling for many years.

"Cheney still has vested interests in Halliburton"

What vested interests are you talking about? If you're referring to his blind trusts that may (or may not) hold Halliburton shares, that applies to a heck of a lot more politicians than Cheney.

I'd say there's a better than good chance every single person's 401k on this board has stocks in Halliburton.

And what is the point of whether other people have stock in Halliburton? That is extremely weak, if it is meant as a rebuttal of some kind.

Cheney puffs out his chest and declares Iran is a member of the Axis of Evil, all the while knowing he made fat cash from doing business with them against the wishes of his own country. He is no better than anyone being held in Guantanamo, and in fact is probably more of a danger to this country than many of them.

We are a rich country and everyone and their mother wants a piece of it.....we just need to find someone who takes a smaller piece than Cheney. :(

Another article in today's paper discussed the Iranian project underway of tunnelling into a mountain near one of their nuclear installations. Satellite photos are being passed around several country's intelligence groups, and discussed at high levels; it is being speculated that the tunnels are being created to prevent a preemptive strike against Iran's nuclear program, by creating a place to house materials and equipment.

Knowing Halliburton got their Iraq contracts in part because they were already in the area, I am curious if they are still doing contract work in Iran? And, if so, what knowledge does our esteemed Veep have regarding this latest bit of chicanery by Iran, a member of the Axis of Evil.