Ok this review is high level but after playing both I have to agree with the jist.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6728091/

I like both games but I will stick the majority of my play time with EQ2, I like being challenged. WoW seems too easy for me, seems like anyone with enough common sense can make it through the game and level decently. In EQ2 you have to use your noggin more and I like that. Not to mention how in depth and how much content there seems to be.

I do hate having to zone though, WoW kicks ass in that dept. And for the life of me I can't used to WoW's graphics. Some how though, I do see me playing both......WoW will be for those nights I need a break from EQ2 =D

Unlike other games in the fantasy genre, you can choose to play traditional villains such as orcs (in "Warcraft," they are a noble race of warriors) or the undead.
/shrug. No such a thing as good and evil in WoW, both factions have their shades in "alignments" area.

On the other hand, "Warcraft" is initially more intuitive and many of the quests can be completed alone. Grouping with other players, at least in lower levels, is purely optional.

High level review?? Hehe riiiight...

Games are different, for different people. At least she got that right.

Uh, I think Fildien meant "high level" as in a very basic review as opposed to delving VERY deeply in to the game mechanics, quest system, leveling system, blah blah blah.

Not necessarily a high level ,aka raid level, type review.

I heard warcraft made an all homosexual server called eluna.

WoW seems too easy for me, seems like anyone with enough common sense can make it through the game and level decently.
Anytime I see this, I have to assume it's someone basing their opinion on a couple days' played time.

WoW doesn't punish you with a long grind to 60, but unless you just stop short of any 50+ instances or raid encounters; it is far from easy. None of these games are "hard" to level to max in. Some may be more time consuming, but that doesn't make them hard.

Well as someone whos played to 60 once in beta..and almost again..I feel I can say it *is* too easy.

Yes..all these games are fundamentally easy in the end, but WoW is particulary so, being able to handle 2-3+ monsters at any one time solo, and only way to die to 1v1 or in groups is just being AFK.

Granted that may be an over exaggeration, but I'm drawing my comparison mostly vs games like FFXI..where a regular xp monster has the chance to kill a party if they're dicking around. Where thats virtually impossible in WoW.

Its not a time=hard thing, its just the fact that WoW is downright easy, well being less time consuming.

Grouping in FFXI was boring as hell though. Unless you had a very tight-knit group of friends to level with, you spend about as much time resting up as you do killing stuff.

Yes..all these games are fundamentally easy in the end, but WoW is particulary so, being able to handle 2-3+ monsters at any one time solo, and only way to die to 1v1 or in groups is just being AFK.

My experiences have been different. You can pussyfoot your way to sixty if you want, but that doesn't mean you can't challenge yourself if you choose to.

I'm also not sure why you think being able to handle multiple mobs at once makes a game easy, especially when it's practically a requirement of the game. If it's too easy to fulfill that requirement, then the game is easy; however, I don't think that's the case.

I think "too easy" in this thread translates to "afraid to try anything remotely challenging".

"However, "Warcraft" also doesn?t require the high time commitment: It's often possible to finish a task in the time it would take you just to find a group in "EverQuest." "Warcraft" is also a much faster-paced game, allowing for shorter periods of down time between battles"

In comparence with EQ1, EQ2 I feel is way much faster paced, I havnt tried WoW tho, but there hardly is any down time at all in EQ2 and there is alot of small quests that u can do farely quick if u dont have alot of time to play on ;)

I think "too easy" in this thread translates to "afraid to try anything remotely challenging".

Exactly. People that say that are probably the kind that go to gnomeregan at lvl 35.

I like how she couldn't even take the time to take a screenshot of her own, and instead opted to use one of the official ones.

Maybe we should wait to see what the high end raiding is like in WoW before calling it too easy.


Xregg

What do you mean by "more challenging"?

Anything in the game more then 4 levels above you is virtually impossible, you hit such a huge brick wall in terms of accuracy, damage and resists, that even when you do win, it took you 10x longer and was totally inefficent, and thats just a regular monster.
Trying to tackle a 4+ elite or boss even with a full group is almost always going to be a near death experience if not outright suacide.
Warriors can't hold hate, mages can't do damage, priests end up taking hate from healing because war can't keep hate.

You guys make it sound like there is some "hard" road to go..there isn't..there isn't some choice, theres one path, and its an easy one.
You fight things +3/-whatever that have virtually no chance to kill anyone solo, or in groups a buncha them (5+ at a time), and still have same issue.

The only thing that even makes it more challenging is playing a PvP server and trying to quest/xp in alliance/contested lands(I play horde). Which I already do.

Sorry..its just plain easy, thats not neccessarily totally bad especially since I play fairly casually and don't want to play hardcore(not that you really can..).

On a side note: I've watched videos of Onyxia, I already fought that encounter in FFXI...only they called it Journmguard(sp?).
Looked exactly the same, I'm sure the raid encounters will fall within a week of a guild having capability to produce the needed numbers, the only hard part seemed that guilds only had 1/2? shots at it before beta ended unless they significantly retuned it since release.
If its what we have to expect for 'raid' content then I think people are gonna be disappointed(with at least that particular one, since can't speak for other non-existant ones yet).

Yes..all these games are fundamentally easy in the end, but WoW is particulary so, being able to handle 2-3+ monsters at any one time solo, and only way to die to 1v1 or in groups is just being AFK.

Granted that may be an over exaggeration, but I'm drawing my comparison mostly vs games like FFXI..where a regular xp monster has the chance to kill a party if they're dicking around. Where thats virtually impossible in WoW.
It's too easy.
Anything in the game more then 4 levels above you is virtually impossible, you hit such a huge brick wall in terms of accuracy, damage and resists, that even when you do win, it took you 10x longer and was totally inefficent, and thats just a regular monster.
Trying to tackle a 4+ elite or boss even with a full group is almost always going to be a near death experience if not outright suacide.
Warriors can't hold hate, mages can't do damage, priests end up taking hate from healing because war can't keep hate.
It's too hard...

Thats a bad comparison sanchek and you know it ;>.


"too hard" well not being even remotely efficent is not "challening" its just stupid.

We're not even talking for instance say 30kxp/h vs 25k..your talking 30k vs 4k/h if for whatever innane reason you decide you wanna fight way over cons, not taking into account travel times via death.

The game was designed to funnel you through hordes of no challenge monsters and outright punishes you for trying to stray from that method, there is no feasible(keyword) alternative.

I have a hard time believing you've played beyond level 30ish if you really don't think there are other efficient ways to play the game other than soloing single pulls of trivial mobs. For example, one of the first groups of people to 60 on my server were five guys that grouped and did instances almost exclusively.

If you choose to take the path of least resistance, you can't complain about that being the path you experienced.

What you're talking about is the equivalent of the people in EQ that took the LoIO, Karnor, Velks type route to 60. Who cares how the gimps level. That's not a reflection of the game, that's a reflection of those particular players and their lack of anything resembling balls.

Sanchek, I never said soloing was the easiest path(that varies by class, and for some it is).

I seriously think you misread something(and not as a dis either).

I mentioned elites, bosses, and groups in above postings, regardless instances are NOT any harder then soloing outside the actual time to organize a group of people.
(5 monsters vs 5 people who could possibly solo them individually(even elites), is not more challenging then 1 v 1 or even 1v2 as is often case)
Its the same pricinpal, you wade through hordes of non challenging monsters, at the end theres a boss, who well harder then normal theres rarely any risk.

I never claimed there wasn't more efficent ways then soloing, nor even implied it.

I *did* say that the same fundamental mechanics are at work in soloing, grouping etc, you wade through hordes of riskless endevors to and end result that well is mildly amusing is ultimatley unfufilling.

Though not as severe I'd compare it to playing a single player game with cheats on, its fun for alittle while but soon gets boring because even in a fictional world you've accomplished little to nothing.

Wether this makes WoW a bad games up for people to decide, but the fact that at least comparatively WoW is not challenging most certainly has merit.

Trying to tackle a 4+ elite or boss even with a full group is almost always going to be a near death experience if not outright suacide.

Shows how much you know. =/ I've soloed elites 4 levels above me, and I've killed level 500 elites with single groups.

If it's level 500... it isn't =P It's just that their level is hidden. "Level 500s" range from like 34 (I think the lowest is) up to 70ish.

Darus, if instances aren't harder than soloing for you maybe you should actually enter them when you're in the proper level range rather than outlevling the difficulty, and then entering them just for the cash reward. Even the deadmines is an insane challenge if entered when it's appropriate. I went down with 4 guys at level 16, and we dropped like flies. Only reason we finished it was through complete skill.

Most people won't even start shouting for a deadmines group until they're 20. By then I'm trying to kill Gath'llzogg in redridge.

Aka, if you're level 20... DON'T GO TO BLACKBURROW.

Find challenges. Yes, the path of least resistance *is* the easiest way to progress. Why do you think it's called the path of LEAST RESISTANCE?

Are the levels actually hidden, or are they just hard coded to act a specific level? I just figured they were using it to signify a boss.

It's basically a fake level flag to throw people off from calculating how hard the guy is.

blizzard can tune any mob they want it, they could make onyxia lvl 1 and still be the same difficulty

Find challenges. Yes, the path of least resistance *is* the easiest way to progress. Why do you think it's called the path of LEAST RESISTANCE?
Your assuming I havn't, which would be false ,again, point is your funneled into that same +3/- range facing nearly the *same* level of challenge regardless of what your doing. Instances arn't harder, they're just different.

I don't know Darus I'm doing Black Rock Spires w/ a group of lvl 60s atm and it's pretty challenging imo. I don't know how much more challenge you want hehe. Hell even a group of lvl 60s in Black Rock Depth was pretty hard. Not sure how far u got in WoW but I'm definetly feeling the challenge atm. And yes we do handle 5-6 elites w/ boss at the same time, that's almost every pull in BRD/BRS. I'm sure that's how it is in most 50+ instance. Sunken temple was the same way.

You guys make it sound like there is some "hard" road to go..there isn't..there isn't some choice, theres one path, and its an easy one.
You fight things +3/-whatever that have virtually no chance to kill anyone solo, or in groups a buncha them (5+ at a time), and still have same issue.


I dunno, maybe me and everyone I play with just suck. I know that there have been various 'challenges' that I've done in groups. Most definetly harder then soloing. I understand your point... its just that my experience is completely opposite of what you speak of.


Your assuming I havn't, which would be false ,again, point is your funneled into that same +3/- range facing nearly the *same* level of challenge regardless of what your doing.

Are you saying that appropriate level instances are the same difficulty as soloing or grinding easy mobs? Again... I have seen no reason to believe that.

The game could certainly be a bit more challenging, but it isn't nearly as bad as you say.

Though the 4 lvl limit is still homotastic.

Are you saying that appropriate level instances are the same difficulty as soloing or grinding easy mobs?
That is what I'm saying, though as always I suppose our experiences just differ (I almost always do instances with my guild..and we've been playing together for 6+ years now I believe)
That could explain some of my side, though content shouldn't always be tuned to the lowest common denominator

The 4 level limit becomes a complete non-issue once you hit level 60 anyways. "Challenge'" becomes what you make of it. Of course BRS is going to be a complete joke if you take 20 people into it...but I wouldn't want to deny the people who decide to do it with 20 their gameplay experience simply because it makes my e-penis that more flascid with rage.

I'd have to honestly say the last game i've played that was any kind of 'challenge' really was probably Rush'N'Attack for the NES. WoW had the potential to be challenging, but they sac'd that in favor of being more tedious like FFxi/EQ2. Not quite as tedious though, so there's still some hope.

I found FFXI to be challenging far as MMOs go, though I don't know, maybe I'm just somewhat burnt on the whole genre, like most these games if it wernt for my friends I would cancel without hesitation.

The last "challening" game experience I had was when I finally picked up BG2/ToB last year, and decided to play the entire game through with just 1 character, a mage(a wild mage at that, 1% chance anytime you cast a spell you die!..hurray).
That was pretty ...hard...in a vast understatement.
Even though I had a blast..I'd never do it in any game ever again that didnt have save states.

Your assuming I havn't, which would be false ,again, point is your funneled into that same +3/- range facing nearly the *same* level of challenge regardless of what your doing. Instances arn't harder, they're just different.

I'm not assuming. I'm claiming.

as a mage, I grind better killing things 4-5 levels below me, using ae's....

There are plenty of instances that can quickly wipe a full group of 60s if they aren't paying attention and playing well. Last night, we went to BRD without a mage or priest and ran it all the way to lyceum with that non-standard group. Nothing to write home about, but it was fun to do it in a weird group.

In the lyceum without any AE power, we predictably died. We died to mobs that we could easily solo 1v1, and that weren't +4 levels above us. Does that make it challenging to you?

What exactly is it that you consider a challenge? The chance that even a good group could wipe on a single xp mob even if they're playing well? Is that "fun"?

The chance that even a good group could wipe on a single xp mob even if they're playing well? Is that "fun"?

it was great fun in fear/hate

edit: forgot quote

To me, the fun in Hate/Fear was that it may have seemed that way if you didn't know the zone, but if you were good you didn't really have to worry about randomly wiping.

After duoing a level 30 quest @ 22 with mine and my bud's new druids, at an extremely high risk vs reward level (died multiple times, but godly quest reward), I'll again state that Darus is still way out on the left field.

Ok I made a Tauren Shaman yesterday and I must say I had fun, allot of fun actually. The quests were very easy to complete and quick. The game is much more fast paced than EQ2 or at least to be so to me. When I said earlier about WoW being less of a challenge than EQ2 I meant that's it's faster paced and so far I have been able to solo everything around me.

Both games have their advantages and disadvantages and it just depends what you want from a game. I will continue to play WoW when I just want to go and goof off, EQ2 is allot more demanding of your time for character growth and guild growth.

Both games are fun though and I am only speaking from the pre-teens in WoW and mid 20s in EQ2. All this time in EQ2 I have had to divide my time between character growth, guild levelling, and tradeskilling. To this point I have not seen the need for that kind of involvement in WoW or even for a group yet ;)