I have a lev 58 wizzy and have been trying to catch phinney up for 2 weeks. I succeeded tonight. 2 people from Rest in Peace were camping him. I asked them what they needed from him and they said everything. Then they asked if I wanted to buy the MQ. I asked them if they were the ones that had been camping him for the last two weeks or so and they said yes. So I asked them how much for the MQ. They were asking 10k for it. When i told them i wouldn't pay that for a lev 51 mob they said they would just destroy the next wizard item that dropped then. Their names are Moggom ( a 65 necro with 151 AAs) and Thyrdyl. Maybe the GMs should consider making these items no drops so the greedy 65s cant line their pockets at the expense of people that are trying to get their epics.

...

GWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA.

*giggle*

The Blue Crystal Staff (think its right name) for wizard Epic IS No Drop...........

And yes this is in no way "fair" or "just" not even "right" in a moral point of view, but you know, EQ is sometimes like real word, and you know as much as me what money can do to ones mind.

Sad but, they kinda in right to do that, All you can do is get first hit and let the GM witness the KSing...

Thats all I can think of... well im just a newb, but thats what I learned so far.

Yeah. I'd make a Rogue. Lol.

It's not just epic pieces, check out Kael, 1/3 of the AoW kills are by a Plane of Time flagged guild's, farming to sell his stuff in the bazaar.

And yes this is in no way "fair" or "just" not even "right" in a moral point of view, but you know, EQ is sometimes like real word, and you know as much as me what money can do to ones mind.

I have talked with a PoT flagged guild officer when they were killing AoW, and he was 100% fine with it. "If they can sell the stuff to twink there alt's, doesn't that make the game that much for fun for them?" Was the best rational that he gave me. So, you hit the nail on the head Sheylar.

waa waa we suck so much we can't beat the big bad ubers to certain mobs, better tell on them quick!

Nihou!

Moggom and Thyrdryl? You're sure Thyrdryl was there? The cleric?

I've known Thyrdryl for some time, and that doesn't sound right. Can you give any more detail? I'm not doubting you, this just doesn't quite ring true.



With Tolerance For Old Names Popping Up In Wierd Places...

Valarian

It's not just epic pieces, check out Kael, 1/3 of the AoW kills are by a Plane of Time flagged guild's, farming to sell his stuff in the bazaar.

We don't sell it in the bazaar until we get better gear to replace it with for our alts.

It's not just epic pieces, check out Kael, 1/3 of the AoW kills are by a Plane of Time flagged guild's, farming to sell his stuff in the bazaar.

And what is wrong with this?

Nothing, until guilds who would love to try this target for the first time or are having hard time with target of that caliber, can never get a shot excpet when they have permission from the uber overlords. As for the camping of epic pieces and forcing folks to MQ or it will be destroyed is indeed fucked up and unexceptable. But what can you do with such an apathetic player base and CS staff?

/shrug. EQ has always been based on competition.

How about you just log on and they give you all the items you want? How'd you like to have a GM vendor type thing, where you can just pick and choose whatever you want?

Sorry, but if your guild isn't willing to work towards a certain target, and places demands on other guilds to give them a shot...well, you don't deserve it.

Sorry, but if your guild isn't willing to work toward a certain target, and places demands on other guilds to give them a shot...well, you don't deserve it

lol that is a ridiculous statement. Saying a guild isn't working toward a target because someone is taking trivial content for PP is nonsensical.

/shrug. EQ has always been based on competition.

How about you just log on and they give you all the items you want? How'd you like to have a GM vendor type thing, where you can just pick and choose whatever you want?
That's how it works if you're FD. If you can't compete, just find a GM that'll copy you some loot!

how is it nonsensical?

sorry, maybe I'm missing something, but if you want somethign enough, you'll make certain sacrifices to achieve it. Doesn't matter what it is. Could be that awesome beanie baby on ebay. could be a vintage George Hamilton Flashed Me and all i got was this lousy T-shirt shirt.

Because we are not talking about an equal playing field. If EW wanted to kill AOW do you think ANY guild could even get a chance at the spawn?

Imagine EW were grief players. Who could accomplish anything with them constantly interfering?

Thats like saying a lvl 5 warrior was just not trying hard enough to kill his orc pawn that a lvl 30 SK just Harm Touched.

Grats to the 30 sk then.

Claiming you have more right to a mob because you're lower level or have fewer people or are more shittily equipped is pretty lame.

In the original case, those two killed Phinny fair and square. What happens to the loot after that is their business. If they want to give it away, kudos to them. If they want to see if the soulbinder in PoT will wield it, more power to 'em.

It's not like the game is hurting for content anymore.

Its not about "fair" its about what the content SOE developed is supposed to be for. The fault is all theirs. EQ is a floundering piece of shit at this point thanks to SOE's management style.

Agree Bowler. The people that say tough shit are the folks who are already on top. Those of us that are not or may never be are out of luck. Do we not pay the same amount each month to play that you do? I just think there is nothing we can do about other then quit all together. Which seems ot be happening more and more. Only here can you be treated and punked out like that and nothing be done about it. On the streets you'd get your ass handed to ya.

On the other side of it folks are correct when they point out that if they are powerfull enough why not do what you want with the mob and let others either wait or find another target. My real only beef is the threat of destroying a quest piece that anyone is of lvl and power should have a fair shot at. Not heald over there head. It's so ironic that a game designed to take you out of the RL has turned into a microcosim OF the RL. Fuck Sony/VI. Makes me wish I did not have so many friends that I do enjoy playing/chatting with.

I have a blue crystal staff in my bank thats been rotting since the days I was killing phinny for the wifes epic. So I offered it to Ezzare for MQ. Unfortunately he doesnt have the rest of the drops yet to complete that step.

This is why the FV server is great. That Trivial Loot code is something else. A little bit of tweaking and situations like this wouldn't happen.

Too bad its too late to turn the whole game on every server back to Trivial.

Well, Moggom is an asshole. But what more do you expect from someone who chose to make his last name the same as his first? There's a kid with brains, for sure.

Anywho, was it wrong? Not really, is it shitty for them to want to kill him for MQs? Na not really, everyone has to make their cash somehow, I used to farm Drums of the Beast in SG just because I could, and it was a hot cash item that made my time spent worth while. Would it be shitty if they purposefully destroyed items just to keep them from you, with no benefit to themself? Yeah, it's not what I'd do, but it's their time spent camping/killing the mob, so ultimately it's up to them.

On a side note however, if you need the VS staff look me up, I have one rotting in my bank that I never got around to selling.

Quote:
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Sorry, but if your guild isn't willing to work toward a certain target, and places demands on other guilds to give them a shot...well, you don't deserve it
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lol that is a ridiculous statement. Saying a guild isn't working toward a target because someone is taking trivial content for PP is nonsensical.

On the contrary. if the AoW is such a priority, the guild in question - or another one around that level of progression - would kill it within a day or so of it spawning. It's laughable to assume that the mob will remain there for you indefinitely.

Is it shitty for them to sell Phinny items for MQ? No, not at all. Let lazy people purchase MQ's. Is it shitty for them to kill Phinny for items for MQ and deny others the content simply because they want to keep the values on their MQ's high? Yeah, that's at least a little shitty.

Seeing A-levels guilds in Kael for the droppables and alt-armor is sorta sad too, I guess. Don't they have enough elemental tradeskill items to sell that nobody else can get?

/shrug -- Whatever makes 'em happy, I guess.

On the contrary. if the AoW is such a priority, the guild in question - or another one around that level of progression - would kill it within a day or so of it spawning. It's laughable to assume that the mob will remain there for you indefinitely.

/cough... from everything I've been able to tell about this, the "PoTime flagged guild" is killing AoW/KT shortly after they pop on server reset days, so its not like they really give any of these smaller guilds a chance. I'm not defending or attacking them here, its their perogative to kill whatever they want, but on patch days, why don't they stick with EP and PoTime and let the Velious level guilds get their targets?

alrighty.....im gonna set this straight...for one thing i have many friends that i wish to help out and seeing how i can solo it i decided to go ahead and help them out...i started soloing it roughly 1 week ago every time i saw it up i killed it...i prolly only killed it about 4-5x total...i was actually going for the bard epic piece for my brother to get him his epic...but while i was trying to get it i had a guildmate say one of his friends needed it to so we made a deal if he would get the tendrils from fear i would get both of the bard pieces off phinny...i have gotten one of them and trying to get the other...and all of a sudden this person zones in and says camp check....i respond phinny...he said what are you going after....and yes i said everything....i figured anything i didnt need i would loot for MQ with a friend or guildmate at some point in time...he then started to get a lil rude by saying...are you the one that has been camping it for a few weeks now...i said yea off and on i have been trying to get it...so i then said i also have a BCS in the bank i would be willing to MQ with him...ive seen this be MQed for like 25k before so i said how bout 10k...and was going to bargan and would have prolly ended up doing for like 5k but he responded...for a lvl 51 mob...ROFL....so i decided oh well i will just keep it in bank and kill phinny and try some more at my bard pieces...

thats the truth of the matter...and if you dont like it....oh well get over it

but i must admit it was fun to see my name on a nag...never seen it before....thanks a bunch for the shits and giggles

well cya all around

Lich Moggom
65 Arch Lich

lol that is a ridiculous statement. Saying a guild isn't working toward a target because someone is taking trivial content for PP is nonsensical.

Just wanted to say that from the necro's perspective, he sounds like an awesome guy, he didn't do anything I personally would not do..

As far as the above statement, how many potime people are there trying to down aow? from my past experience, usually someone sees him up (idol whatever), no one around that can kill him.. takes about 30 min to an hour to get there, then they kill it...

These are the same types of people who will take a whole guild 2-4 hours before a mob is supposed to pop (emp is an example, when he was a hot comodity) and wait for the pop.. why do they do it? because they want it bad.. if you want aow bad, get your ass down there.. I am 100% sure that most people would leave aow alone if they saw that there was a bunch of people already there almost ready for it..

One thing I know for sure, I have some friends in prism, they killed tz and they killed aow.. server crashed, the next day they did it again.. these people raid late in the day, they get the mobs they want because they hunger for it, and they sacrifice for it..

Leafstalker, the reason we kill KT / AoW etc instead of EP named is because you know, KT can be done by 11 people, aow around 15, which is a lot more feasible at 12am est when no one is on in your guild (hence, we couldn't kill anything in elementals simply by the fact that there just aren't enough on). Not to mention, that while EP spawn rates are fairly quick, its not like there are ALWAYS mini's up, and definatly not like there are ALWAYS the "easy" ones up either.

ps: ever think for a moment to realize that not everyone in EP+ guilds have super awesome stuff in all slots? helms and boots are pretty rare for instance, making aow / kt helms and boots fairly hot commodities, sure, stuff like KT axe / horn and AoW bow tend to rot or get sold, but so what, there was a chance we could get something we could use, so we took the chance. If you don't like it...well, kill them first =)

If SOT are the ones killing KT and AOW then I seriously doubt they are "screwing" another guild who is sitting there waiting.

This new evidence on that issue makes me tend to agree that if a guild wants AOW they need to get there in time because if your sitting there ready for AOW I can bet you SOT isnt gonna gank it from you.

Ultimately it comes down to what you feel as being a level of deserving. Bowler believes that because we all pay the same monthly fee, everyone should be entitled to the same content. Personally, I think we already are.

If that wizard wants his phin staff, he should do the same goddamn thing I and every other 'uber' wizard did when he was the hot topic. Camped his bitch ass. Find out when he's gonna spawn, grab a few friends and make sure you're there to gib him before anyone else is.

People seem to think just because content is 'old' they should be automatically entitled to it if they aren't in an uber guild. I'm sorry, but that's just not the way it works. When my guild was going after AoW, we had EW and IvM sitting there going, "Nope."

He died just as fast, if not faster. What the fuck makes you so special that we should all just back off and leave it up until you can blow the spawn? You deserve it more because you have to use 4x as many people to do it?

Oh, I get it. You deserve it more because you're level 62 and play once a week. You deserve it more because while I was dying 12 times a night in NToV you were sitting in lake of ill omen training sarnaks on people? I'm sorry kiddo, but that's just not how it works.

It's called competition. Deal with it.

Ultimately it comes down to what you feel as being a level of deserving. Bowler believes that because we all pay the same monthly fee, everyone should be entitled to the same content. Personally, I think we already are

No I think the game is FUBAR.

I asked them what they needed from him and they said everything. Then they asked if I wanted to buy the MQ. I asked them if they were the ones that had been camping him for the last two weeks or so and they said yes. So I asked them how much for the MQ. They were asking 10k for it. When i told them i wouldn't pay that for a lev 51 mob they said they would just destroy the next wizard item that dropped then.
Sounds like assholes to me.

My opinion :

Being in a timezone about 4-5 hours after EST we dont get a lot of mobs, because they are already dead. Example, im checking Klandicar, a main target for our guild as we want to get into ST. Oh noz, SoT is there killing him, of course being the lower guild's leader and we only have 12 people i send them a tell saying "can we please have Kland? we need the -"
Fuck off that doesnt happen, SoT gets to mob X, we dont get mob X, simple. No Calculus, look for a new target dont bitch/whine/do a goat because it gets you nowhere.

If we are racing someone to Zlandicar and we clear all the way down, they jump over our heads and kill him - well fuck, for starters, but then shrug, they got there first, gratz to them.

If we want to try AoW, so we call otm and we all get there. But oh noz there's EW killing the idol, fuck it, move on.

Catch a pattern?

Do we not pay the same amount each month to play that you do?

Yes we do, and thats the point. They have the same fucking right to mobs as we do. We dont have more, they dont have more. If they are the more committed ones and get there first and kill one of your best raid targets, gratz to them, they got the kill because they got there first, its their loot. Not yours. You have no right to it because you were too slow. Leave it at that, not your loot = you have no say.

Bottom line : Everyone has an equal chance at every mob, if you dont get that mob, oh well. Take note of his spawn time and get there early. Deal with it, dont bitch to the Ayro community, theyll laugh at you.

Thanks.

Grumblin ~ Prophet.

Maybe its just me but I personally make a difference between AoW and Phinigel.
Especially between AoW and "camping Phinigel for 2 weeks straight, destroying Epic pieces, not helping anyone, basically owning an epic mob several classes need, just to sell the stuff".

But thats just me, prolly.

Coming from a guy who expounds the virtues of dignity in doing something yourself, I find that humorous Taino.

Valid point Taino, although i think in this situation the dude is actually trying to get bard epic pieces for his friend(s) if a wizzy/mage/whatever piece drops while he is taking his time and effort to kill this mob then surely he should reserve the right to keep/destroy that loot, or charge a price for an MQ.
If, though, he was just doing it to cockblock, then sure hes an asshole, still nothing to be gained by posting here. Other than to warn people that oh noz this guy may be camping YOUR spawn, in which case there is nothing anyone can do anyway so.

Uhh.

Grumblin ~ Prophet.

Usually the only time you'll see IvM on Kael, or RoV is because we called an off night because not enough were on/no targets to kill, or we just wanted to add another target to a huge list of kills for one night.

I agree its just competition. Nothing wrong with that in a game thats way out of control in the first place. It just smells of asshole to have it held over his head for 10k or it will be destroyed. Why not say.."Hey, were here after piece soandso. As soo as we get it were outta here and he is all yours." I'd even say thats more then fair. For once I agree with Taino.....He was an asshole. But, again what can ya do? Notta.

Looks to me Moggom offered the staff up for a fair price. Probably shouldn't of insulted him with your laughing at his request for a fair price on a item that used to be a huge pain in the ass for wizards back in the day. Next time talk a little nicer and it might work out in your favor.

Hes camping the mob, he can do what ever he likes with the loot. With patience sooner or later it will get boring for him and he will move on then you can get the staff yourself ..might take 10 times but hey saved yourself 10k.

'Because we are not talking about an equal playing field. If EW wanted to kill AOW do you think ANY guild could even get a chance at the spawn?'

- Uhm, yes.
A guild being at the top of the progressional ladder doesn't imbue them with super-human powers.
Be there first, with an AoW size force, and you can contend with anyone.

But to their credit, EW does have amazing OTM times.

I remember watching EW call otm to Kland in early velious days, within 4 min, everyone where in CS or closer.

I remember being very impressed by this.

Here. I've got the solution(s)!

- Predatory Petitioning: Watch the guild in question. If you so much as see a peep of profanity in a public channel, report them. Nail member's for the slightest name violations.

- Training Sessions: I've wiped out entire raids on accident...imagine what someone could do on purpose (While still getting away with claiming it as an accident)!

- Rumor Monger: Spread lies about them in heavily populated zones. "I heard that Soandso molested an 8 year old boy. X guild knows this, but they don't mind, because he shows up to raids a lot." Keep at ONE specific member for a few weeks. Don't spam it, just plant it. Eventually you will not have to keep it up.

- Undercutting: See them selling something in Bazaar, undercut them constantly by 10%. BUY items for the purpose of undercutting them.

- Mob Tactics: Gather groups of people with the same enemy (my enemy's enemy is my friend), who are willing to sacrifice their morals to get even...get them in on the game.

-Turn-in Blasting: Stand at turn-in mobs when an MQ is about to go down and hand in the wrong things (or the right things if you're a real asshole) to see if the NPC inventory can get screwed up. Maybe YOU'LL get the end result, or the wrong person does, or it just gets eaten. Maybe nothing will happen, but you can rest assurred that you made your best effort to completely screw someone.

Above are just a few fun things you can do to get even. THEN, when the entire population of the server is a miserable, fucked up, cesspool, bent on revenge, where everyone is out to get everyone else and you can't hunt in Upper Guk without someone intentionally training you, and you hear twice a week that another one of your guildmates named "Hopalong Cassidy" (a wizard frog! Isn't that funny?) got name-nerfed, then we can all say:

WOW! Look what we've created! Isn't this fun!?

Mog-whatever sounds nearly as smart as my last bowel-movement (although my stool has not mastered the art of typing, I seriously doubt it will have the ellipses obsession that he does), but he's right in that it's entirely up to him to do that if he wants to. He pays the same price per month that we do. However, how often do we hear, "IF U R NOT ENGAGED WITH MOB, THAN (sic) U DON OWN IT" from these very people? If Phinny hasn't spawned, and you want to take it, go down and get prepped up right in front of him! He's able to solo it, but if you "get first aggro" (wink-wink, nudge-nudge - who's to say who REALLY got it), then you outdo him in damage and poof: You both get to deal with a GM! YAAAAY! Everyone knows how fun that is.

Remember everyone, to "have fun" in this game, it's OK to be complete assholes all the way around. Let's make it a real shithole, and all be miserable together.

PS - Ignore all those nice folks offering to MQ with you, they are trying to ruin my plan to make our new server-name Ghetto Thule.

(This post brought to you by the Association To Nerf Multi-Questing.)

Welcome back Faust. 8)

<3 Turd Ferguson

That's how it works if you're FD. If you can't compete, just find a GM that'll copy you some loot!

Hiya Fhylden!!! How are you? Been playing your halfling ranger much?

Phin is hardly camped...if you killed him...you pretty much know when he's going to spawn. Hang around...find out exact time he died...show up 10 hours later. Rinse and repeat until they don't show up.

Saying it goes to the person who is "camping it" is bullshit...it's hardly a camp unless you are guessing at the spawn time. If you were serious about killing Phin, you'd know the last time he died...or at least have a pretty good idea.

If they want to be assholes about it (yes...the "I'm going to destroy it if you don't pay me 10k comment" qualifies here)...just take your force up there...first person to aggro Phin and live till Phin dies wins...just try not to wipe on his seahorse friends =). GM's will be able to tell who got first aggro.

Personally, I prefer the "just come back until they leave" method. It's much better for my blood pressure.

The 'camping' rules are not rules of the game. They are a courtesy extended to other players, based on the fact that 'who was sitting there first' is an accepted way of resolving a conflict between two parties with two equal and competing needs.

Courtesy is reciprocal. If you wish courtesy, you must extend it in turn. In this case, one party is extending the courtesy of respecting the camp, thus the other party should extend the courtesy of ceding the item they don't need.

If the second party fails to do so, then there is no reason for the first party to respect 'their camp'. Why shouldn't the Wizard simply move into the camp, take down Phinegal, and go stash the Bard piece the Necro needs in his bank to MQ later? After all, it's no more discourteous than what the Necro was planning to do to the Wizard.

Kortar, I cannot agree more.

If person A is "camping" a mob for one of his drops, and person B shows up looking for another of his drops, then why can't person A invite person B to join forces?

And, again, the concept of a "camp" is merely respecting the gametime of other people. If I find someone "camping" a mob purely for plat (i.e. they don't need the drops personally and don't need the exp, just want the money), then there isn't that much to respect, in my opinion. Get some pals and "camp" right along with the other folks.

Didn't want to respond to Kortar cause his idea was ridicilous but since someone else agreed I have to comment..

If I find someone "camping" a mob purely for plat then there isn't that much to respect, in my opinion. Get some pals and "camp" right along with the other folks.

So what you are saying if someone is say at the ng camp vendoring the gems for plat, if you need the gems for tradeskill then just setup camp right next to them and kill kill kill..

What you are saying is if I am at the king camp in droga, come on down and setup camp next to me.. am I interpreting what you said incorrectly?

one party is extending the courtesy of respecting the camp, thus the other party should extend the courtesy of ceding the item they don't need.

This is just totally wrong.. what constitues "need".. let me go join all those level 45+ druids/rangers/groups camping hoppers.. 99% of them are there because they can get xp and on top of that loot is just amazing.. flawless hide is an easy 200plat...

Notice I gave examples where it's not some "greedy" elemental geared person with 300 AA taking out a mob you want to take out.. it's some "greedy" level 46 druid trying to make some xp and cash to buy his level 9 shaman some more spells..

/sarcasm on
I say it's all that level 5 beastlords fault who sells his spiderling silks for 200pp a stack which makes the 46 druid have to sell flawless hides for redicilous amounts so he can buy the spiderling silks which make the necro buying the hides have to take a camp for 2 weeks straight so he can make the money to buy the hides.. I say the wizzy needs to go ks everyone below level 10 for all the silks he can muster sell them in the bazaar for dirt cheap in turn causing the druids to sell their hides cheaper which means the necro doesn't have to charge for every mq cause he can get the hides for cheap which means a free wizzy epic piece in the end and a bunch of happy people > level 10..
/sarcasm off

firstly:

than what the Necro was planning to do to the Wizard.

so i then said i also have a BCS in the bank i would be willing to MQ with him...ive seen this be MQed for like 25k before so i said how bout 10k...and was going to bargan and would have prolly ended up doing for like 5k but he responded...for a lvl 51 mob...ROFL....so i decided oh well i will just keep it in bank and kill phinny and try some more at my bard pieces...

secondly:

Courtesy is reciprocal. If you wish courtesy, you must extend it in turn. In this case, one party is extending the courtesy of respecting the camp, thus the other party should extend the courtesy of ceding the item they don't need.

Is this a joke? Well answered Silu, but let me just add something.

Yes we do, and thats the point. They have the same fucking right to mobs as we do. We dont have more, they dont have more. If they are the more committed ones and get there first and kill one of your best raid targets, gratz to them, they got the kill because they got there first, its their loot. Not yours. You have no right to it because you were too slow. Leave it at that, not your loot = you have no say.

(heh, go the quotes)

If the second party fails to do so, then there is no reason for the first party to respect 'their camp'. Why shouldn't the Wizard simply move into the camp, take down Phinegal, and go stash the Bard piece the Necro needs in his bank to MQ later? After all, it's no more discourteous than what the Necro was planning to do to the Wizard.

A camp and the mobs loot are the same thing. By respecting someone is at a camp is respecting that they have the loot. I believe silu touched on this. In the extreme... picture yourself here: you have been camping a mob for 9 hours straight because you want this piece for your friend's epic so bad, they have been camping other pieces of their epic for a loong time, but they cant seem to get this one. Being the great friend you are you say, i'll help! and there you are at camp x for 9 hours straight.

Mob X spawns, you think woot! Finally a reward. Then some whiny bitch comes into the zone and
says "i respect your camp"
you think ok cool, "what piece were you needing?"
he replies "the wizzy staff"
knowing the rarity or such a piece you offer a feasable and relatively cheap price, after all you want something out of the countless hours you have spent here.
"10k", you state.
Whiny Bitch replies "LOELZ IM NOT PAYING"
You think, hmm surely since i've been here for hours camping this mob all the loot is mine? Guess not, here whiny bitch, have this please, after all, its clear you deserve it so much more than me seeing as you just turned up and i've been here for hours.

Now i know the original camper (in this case the necro) has no need for the item. But the item was given a value for a reason, people buy it for 10k, so it must be worth 10k of time, by "ceding the loot" he is giving away 10k that he rightfully earned, there is no doubt about it.

So what you are saying if someone is say at the ng camp vendoring the gems for plat, if you need the gems for tradeskill then just setup camp right next to them and kill kill kill..

You pwn Siludorf. Though in this case its like the second person asking for every single gem that drops because he needs it for tradeskills whereas the other needs it for cash.
Would person A even think twice before telling person B to fuck off? no.

Have a nice day whiny bitch.

Grumblin ~ Prophet.

- Number of places items can be farmed for plat = p

- Number of places where the staff from Phinny drop = s

Now, everyone get your crayons and your pencils...

___ > ____

Please fill in the blanks. (Pssst - The answer is: p > s )

In this case, said person is on top of the spawn times, and claims a mob that is not actually spawned. As we all know from years of posts, you can't claim a mob that isn't even up, and furthermore, you can't claim a mob that isn't engaged...even if you're OTM. I would say, gather your friends up and go down and be the bigger man and take it from the solo player that could not outdamage your group. Then it's really just a race to see who gets the first aggro. Now, everyone here knows that a mob pops and is engaged, very seldom is it easy to prove first aggro (aside from the AFK 'chanter that was sitting on the spawn-point with the new last name of "Corpse"). Knowing how this game ends up 99% of the time, the item sought after doesn't drop and then the person that monopolized the spawn initially has to get some of HIS buddies to come and try to outdamage the other group. Back and forth and back and forth it goes. Eventually a GM stands in and makes some ruling that pisses off a lot of people, or one side cannot get his friends to come, or someone else with a bigger stick shows up, and then everyone can train each other, petition, and bicker.

Whatever you do though, don't be nice, and don't be considerate. I've got a plan here, and hopefully, with a little encouragement and some selfish assholes we can make this place a fucking war-zone. I like seeing people miserable...especially when they're PAYING to be miserable. Hahahhaa.

Pleased to meet you. Hope you guessed my name.

woo woo

woo woo

ROFLMGDAO!!!

Faust.. stop.. I.. can't.. breath..

HAHAHAHA....that's classic Faust...I may just copy it and add it to my sig!

Faust is funny - but his perspective does not apply in this case.

This seems to me to be the facts:

- The original poster zoned in to get Phinny.
- Someone else (Moggom) was camping Phinny for bard pieces - note that Moggom is *already helping someone else*
- The original poster, badly wanting his epic *now* asked if he could get the epic piece from the camp that Moggom had been holding down.
- This person was offered MQ of an epic piece *Moggom already had banked* ("so i then said i also have a BCS in the bank i would be willing to MQ with him...ive seen this be MQed for like 25k before so i said how bout 10k...and was going to bargan and would have prolly ended up doing for like 5k but he responded...for a lvl 51 mob...ROFL")
- The original poster refused the purchase of this MQ, which would thus reduce the wait time for said piece to drop, at a *below-market price* (potentially - and Moggom willing to go down further)
- He refused the offer rudely as he felt that an uber character should give him the piece.
- Rather than trying to bring the discussion further (and Moggom notes he was totally willing to bargain), this impatient person decided to come to NAG to post about the occurence and try to cast aspersions on Moggom's character.

Because he didn't get a drop he wanted right away.

Now a few of you are joining in to cast aspersions on Moggom's character - when you were not even there and do not even have a clean view of what happened as this is a he-said-she-said sort of situation.

Personally, for you Faust and your post about making the game into a cesspool - I think you got it backwards. Bargaining and selling are part of the economy of EQ. It is actually a good thing because it helps people to push themselves and work hard to get to the level that someone like Moggom worked hard and pushed himself to get to.

Also, you completely overlook the fact that Moggom was in the zone helping two other people already. His reason for being in the zone was *already not selfish* (or greedy).

Coming here and posting with the intent to cast aspersions on someone's character is far more of a move to turn the server into a cesspool than any other action. And making such posts because you didn't get your wizzie piece right away, as soon as you thought you wanted it, that is very questionable. Why not talk to the person in-game? Or bring it up to their guild for resolution?

Casting aspersions on someone's character here is rather like the news publishing rumors about someone accused of a crime. Then the person turns out to be completely innocent, but the media does nothing much other than a small footnote correction. It's just a really bad thing to do and doesn't benefit you or the community at all.

Ruthey, I can see where you're coming from in many aspects.

However, my experience is that there are a few select sets of people (I know a few of them personally and have told several that I think they are being cockfaces) that will nab needed pieces to sell for MQ and "hold hostage" the items. They have the spawns "locked" in that they killed them last, and they know when they will spawn next and "claim" the mob even before it has spawned - thereby taking advantage of someone else's respect for someone's camp.

Hell, I've been in on these kind of cycles with Phinny before, and when someone comes in to see about getting a piece for their epic (that we aren't after) we had no problem bringing them into group, killing faster and sometimes saying congrats to someone that just progressed further.

Now, the double-edged sword aspect that was explained to me by someone that does a lot of MQ looting was that "Some people do not have the backup or ability or even time to get certain pieces for their epic, so I'm providing a service to them by helping them along and getting pieces that they couldn't otherwise." You know, that seems fair, and also helps out people that don't have the bandwidth to take down some of the things that need to be taken down. If a mob is up and not being touched, go whack it. Make someone happy and get a few thousand plat out of it. Both sides win.

Where the above situation parts ways is the holding epic pieces / mobs, quest items hostage. I'm a big time "legal boundry" person when I need to be (ie - it benefits me) and I see the same people that monopolize things taking advantage of the unwritten rule of "respecting camp". These are the same people that will leap-frog people in "OTM", and rush what is to them, trivial content, gleefully pointing out "U CANT CLAIM IT B-CUZ U R NOT FIETEING IT!" I actually feel this is a valid argument. Assholish if someone who has not had the opportunity is OTM, but still "legal" by the game rules. By that same token, it has been my observation that these same people would shit kittens if you wandered into their "camp" - even if the mob was not spawned. This is where one can decide, "Fuck you, dude. This is not against the rules. You're actually going to have to compete for this one." and utilize "a variety of methods" to get the job done. (Of course, I am not condoning training, ToD (don't think that still works), or KSing. That would just not be nice.) Now, the shoe is on the other hand, and this guy doesn't think it's so funny anymore.

So...those that don't respect camps, and hold shit hostage (not to be confused with wisely taking opportunity - that's capitalism and is cool by me) have zero room to bitch when people go change their boundaries from "unwritten rules" to "only what Sony will enforce" and stomp all over their toes. That's a quick view into the warped little world in my head.

In this particular case, I am recommending that the original poster quit being a pussy and just get a superior force and go down and TAKE the mob from him by "being the first to aggro" and having more firepower. It's all easy to sit there boxing two toons that can handle the mob offering to sell loot from a mob that hasn't even spawned - but how funny is it when the original poster decides, "Fuck that, we're going to just go down and enforce OUR will instead"? Now both sides are pissed at each other, folks lose XP, get into fights, and then this gets repeated over and over and over again. Like I said...let's do it. I enjoy when shit gets out of control and everyone is pissed at everyone else and there's unchecked aggression out there. Bring on the trains...I've got a feign key.

It's all easy to sit there boxing two toons that can handle the mob offering to sell loot from a mob that hasn't even spawned

so i then said i also have a BCS in the bank

However, my experience is that there are a few select sets of people (I know a few of them personally and have told several that I think they are being cockfaces) that will nab needed pieces to sell for MQ and "hold hostage" the items. They have the spawns "locked" in that they killed them last, and they know when they will spawn next and "claim" the mob even before it has spawned - thereby taking advantage of someone else's respect for someone's camp.

Got your point here yo, asshole monopolising is bad nod.

but..

In this particular case, I am recommending that the original poster quit being a pussy and just get a superior force and go down and TAKE the mob from him by "being the first to aggro" and having more firepower. It's all easy to sit there boxing two toons that can handle the mob offering to sell loot from a mob that hasn't even spawned - but how funny is it when the original poster decides, "Fuck that, we're going to just go down and enforce OUR will instead"? Now both sides are pissed at each other, folks lose XP, get into fights, and then this gets repeated over and over and over again. Like I said...let's do it. I enjoy when shit gets out of control and everyone is pissed at everyone else and there's unchecked aggression out there. Bring on the trains...I've got a feign key.

In this case the dude camping the spawn isnt playing the asshole monopoliser rather that of an honest friend going about his business to camp epic pieces. Thus the respect for camps rule should be applied here. And in honouring this rule, he is honouring the fact that the loot belongs to Moggom, to do with what he chooses. He wants to sell the MQ rather than give it to someone he doesnt know, fine.

Oh and..

Now, the shoe is on the other hand

Loelz you wear shoes on your hands? :lol

Grumblin ~ Prophet.

However, my experience is that there are a few select sets of people (I know a few of them personally and have told several that I think they are being cockfaces) that will nab needed pieces to sell for MQ and "hold hostage" the items. They have the spawns "locked" in that they killed them last, and they know when they will spawn next and "claim" the mob even before it has spawned - thereby taking advantage of someone else's respect for someone's camp.


nodnodnod, understand...

but my point is, you do not *know* that is what happened in this particular case. This is a he-said-she-said - and both parties sound like their cases have merit.

Forgot to add - because of raiding requirements of our guild, it would also be very very difficult for Moggom to hold any camp hostage, even if he were motivated to do so.

notice here that moggom is either lying, or just is simply clueless. Phinny has one bard item, 1, one that's right one, moggom. You say in your post you already had one bard item, and if getting more was your reasoning here, you are either lying are simply don't know. It's lore also.

Phinny has one bard item, 1, one that's right one,

So let me get this straight, you are saying phinny has how many bard items??

hehe :p

talerenbloodsong.... Wrong, try again....

Allow me to clear some of this up for you.

I am one of the bards that Moggom was there getting the epic piece for. So yes he was definitely there for NON-SELFISH reasons. He was not being greedy. He was there to help me and another bard get their kedge backbone.

He only killed Phinny 5x within the period of 2 weeks. Phinny spawns every 10-12 hours. Over the course of 2 weeks that should mean he is up 20+ times assuming he doesn't sit around unkilled for a while. Thus leaving 15 spawns that he did not take... Where were you at for those wizzie? He only took a quarter of the pops.

Last saturday we killed him again. He finally dropped kedge backbone, and I looted. So 1 of 2 bards down. Thus, talerenbloodsong, he is not lying nor is he clueless. I looted it, and he is still after the second piece for the second bard.

He may have said to the wizzie that he would destroy the piece if he didn't pay it, but I doubt that he actually would. I didn't see the conversation, but I imagine that when the wizzie told him that he didn't want to MQ it that he said something that made Moggom mad. Again, just speculation. I do know however that Moggom did say that he would keep it for MQ in case he came across any wizzie friends that needed it later.

Once he gets the other bard piece he WILL leave. He's not there just to piss people off, nor is he there to make money. He has better things he could be doing if he wasn't trying to help n00bs such as myself =P

Someone mentioned that they offered the wizzie the piece for MQ for free, but he didn't have the rest of the stuff. So, wizzie, go get the rest of your pieces for that portion of the epic first. By the time you're done, Moggom should be done with Phinny. Or go kill him one of the other times he pops. 5 times in 2 weeks does not stop you from getting him. If you're too lazy to kill him at a different time, then pay for a MQ. If Moggom hadn't helped me, I probably would have payed for someone else to MQ it for me since I'm lazy when it comes to mobs like that.

i misread his post, i went back and reread it, i'm sorry

"U CANT CLAIM IT B-CUZ U R NOT FIETEING IT!"

Faust has met Noar!

I am the friend of a RIP who asked Moggom about the kedge robe which he happily gave up without hesitation (and without pp), so people saying Moggom is doing this with profit solely motivating him are mistaken.

That said, if i could camp a mob, any mob, for days and weeks and months and make substantial profit from it, there is nothing wrong with it. In the time spent complaining about how long its taking for me to get my turn in kedge I could have made the money he asked to MQ it. Hell, I paid a guild other than my own to epic me. They had the means, I had the pp. /shrug. Its all about choices. Choose to make the money or choose to log on earleir to get first aggro claim. I suppose choosing to make a fool of yourself on Aro is an choice too, but IMO doesnt seem to accomplish your end goal.

Actually...it's not really a he-said/she-said because both accountings of the story match up pretty closely. Tonly thing that was really unique to Moggom's post was...

and all of a sudden this person zones in and says camp check....i respond phinny...he said what are you going after....and yes i said everything....i figured anything i didnt need i would loot for MQ with a friend or guildmate at some point in time...he then started to get a lil rude by saying...are you the one that has been camping it for a few weeks now...i said yea off and on i have been trying to get it

Maybe there was more to it than what Moggom is saying here, but it doesn't sound like the guy was being rude. Your statement makes it sound like you're sitting there thinking "wtf? This peon has the audacity to ask me if he can loot a piece from Phin? Fuck him!" To the folks who are not yet completely jaded in EQ, it seems reasonable to ask what he asked. Maybe he worded it in a way that offended you, but your statement doesn't seem to indicate that. In any case...it makes you look bad...not the other guy...not that you prolly care.

In any case...a person who pays 10-25k for that staff nowadays is a dumbass...or had the dollars to spend on some in-game cash (25k is what? $25...prolly less by now). Barring the occasional Phin camper who has nothing better to do with their time (how the hell does that happen?)...the camp is easy and usually abandoned. A non-kos (in WW form) enchanter can single pull Phin to the tube outside his area.

That being said...if you want to contest for the spawn, it is well within your rights. Get your force there and make Moggom actually do some work for his cash. The perfect parallel is that nobody can stand on KT's spawn point and tell everyone to get the hell out of the zone because KT is his. If Phin's not up...Moggom has no claim to the spawn. Hell...if Phin *IS* up he has no claim to the spawn if he hasn't engaged.

Lyrik, I think it has been very well established that Moggom was not there for greedy reasons but to help someone else get their bard drop. Moreover, it is also very well established that RiP has a challenging raid schedule, that Moggom killed Phin only a few times in the timeframe, and that therefore the other person could have had their opportunity at the spawn at another time.

The issue becomes he-said-she-said because one person is saying they interpreted the other as being rude; the other is saying they interpreted the other as being greedy.

Either way, the bottom line is that Moggom was not in the zone for greedy reasons. He was not there to farm for cash - which is, after all, the title of the original post and what the original poster was accusing him of.

Your suggestion and Faust's suggestion of "seizing the camp" only speaks of your own approach to things. It is good to know your approach as it will influence me, at least, if I ever have the choice to group with you in the game.

Faust,

If I were a level 65 Necro soloing Phingel, there is no way I would add a 51 wizard to the group. The dangers of this become apparent when you analyze how/where the necro is pulling to. It's one thing if he's keeping the room clear, but if he isn't and has set up camp in the little nook by the phingel spawn, a level 51's aggro radius can jeopardize the whole camp. Big group tactics and solo tactics are completely different for this spawn. A level 51 who moves slightly the wrong way could pull all the CHing seahorses down and completely rape any chance of a kill with such low DPS (2 characters, one being only 51)

I had to camp Phingel a bunch to get my epic back in the day, and no one solo'd him back them. I had to compete against whole other camps of people with wizards AND bards (and of course people's friends who weren't present, but needed the MQ) Yet, I still got my piece. The wizard will get his, but he needs to make an effort at least, for the majority of the server populace, epics are called epic because they take more than 5 hours to finish.

So, you don't like it that Moggom has killed 5 of 20 potential spawns? Too bad, stay in zone until he leaves and claim the camp for your own, that's what everyone else had to do.

Enkle

It is good to know your approach as it will influence me, at least, if I ever have the choice to group with you in the game.

I doubt very much you will find the chance to group with him in game... He is far too busy helping others to do random pickup groups...

I don't think anyone cares why he was there...for greedy or non-greedy reasons...it was the way he decided to respond to the person. Moggom's own words on the subject are what I'm looking at...not the other guy's. The guy's questions (looking at Moggom's post) look reasonable...Moggom's the one that looks like he was pissed off that this guy was even asking for a Moggom to throw him a bone.

I dunno...when folks have asked for help for a piece from Phin we didn't need (and I have camped Phin for many, many weeks to help guildies and friends out), I gladly let folks who needed loot them...even if I didn't know them. I didn't tell them "10k or the destroy button gets it" (paraphrased...tho...this is from the original complaintant's account which Moggom has not bothered to deny...nor confirm).

Anyway, I've never said there was anything technically wrong with what he did. He was waiting for a mob to pop...if no one contests it then fine. I'm just saying that if you don't want to let someone get away with treating you like that, go grab your forces and grab the spawn. Go pull the seahorses...put on your EB gear...and sit where Phin spawns. If you get aggro first...he's yours. Even if you don't get aggro first, there's the possibility that the GM will just tell Moggom to go kill it the next time and shut the hell up. At worst...they take the item away from you and give to Moggom. Although...if you tell the GM that he was just going to destroy it and do a /report on him with that line showing the GM will prolly let you keep it. Anyway...yeah...it sucks...but that's the game...not everyone can walk away with a win/win situation.

The guy's questions (looking at Moggom's post) look reasonable

he then started to get a lil rude by saying...are you the one that has been camping it for a few weeks now...i said yea off and on i have been trying to get it...so i then said i also have a BCS in the bank i would be willing to MQ with him...ive seen this be MQed for like 25k before so i said how bout 10k...and was going to bargan and would have prolly ended up doing for like 5k but he responded...for a lvl 51 mob...ROFL

first aggression -> newb, for one that would piss me off, dont know about some others. It ties in with the whole demanding buffs (http://pub142.ezboard.com/fayonaerofrm6.showMessage?topicID=3781.topic) shit from noobs, perhaps they have grown in confidence? but there is a sure change. I've quoted other people so many times, do you guys read the past messages?

I had to camp Phingel a bunch to get my epic back in the day, and no one solo'd him back them. I had to compete against whole other camps of people with wizards AND bards (and of course people's friends who weren't present, but needed the MQ) Yet, I still got my piece. The wizard will get his, but he needs to make an effort at least, for the majority of the server populace, epics are called epic because they take more than 5 hours to finish.

Why the fuck should everything be handed to the noobs on a silver platter? Because he is high levelled why is Moggom expected to give this noob something that noob has no right to?

Like Enklechewer said, back in the day epics took a long time. So they should, in EQ, like in RL, you are not going to get everything handed to you just because you want said thing.
This is the way it should be, whats up with noobs expecting good items to just fall into their laps. Someone is camping this mob, try again later. Soz.

Selling any MQ for the wizard epic is a stupid idea. Epic faction has been screwed up forever. GM's will not reimburse for a failed MQ.

My question to Moggam is does it really hurt you to help out a stranger? I can speak from experience. Mark of Honor allowed me to loot the Charred Staff off of VS for my epic.

So, I started out with some assumptions that turned out to be incorrect.

The first one being that Mog-whatever was NOT going to be doing anything with the wizzie piece but MQ it. I'm sure the reason I thought that was the whole "fine, I'll just destroy it" line.

The next being that I was under the assumption that he was time-camping it (playing an alternate toon, showing up for a neatly timed spawn and calling it camped if others happend by to ask - wash, rinse, repeat) and thereby "hostaging" the pieces purely for MQ. If I happend by and saw him waiting for the thing and he said, "My buddy/guildmate/landlord needs the MQ", I'd be more than happy to wish him luck and be on my way.

The initial response from the wizzie could VERY easily have been worded a lot better. However, as soon as the " I will just destroy it" line came out, I'd recommend pulling together a group and going down to see who got first aggro, and ultimately who did the most damage. Bearing in mind that normally respecting camps is the ideal way to handle it, but that is just a courtesy extended from one player to another and is NOT a requirement. Given the exchange of attitude (on both sides), I'd say this would be a perfect opportunity to lay down the unwritten rules and strictly adhere to the letter of the law...so to speak.

When you expect someone to respect a camp of an unspawned / unengaged mob - remeber that that it is their respect for the unwritten rules that keeps them from moseying down with a metric buttload of other people and buffing up in your face. If you want that respect to be maintained, you might want to extend a little more courtesy - because your ability to enforce your "no entry zone" does not exist but by the courtesy of that other player.

I've been keeping tabs on this post because I've both had simular happen to me and by me.

Seems to me it could have been handled much better by all concerned. One snapped, perhaps having a bad day, or past bad experiances in dealing with Epic campers.

Then the reply came back that actually, I wouldn't have liked either. If you are not using or camping a particular epic piece for a friend, then holding it for what I like to call MQ ransom is just wrong. That would be as bad as when my group is camping SG, telling someone doing their shawl quest that they can't loot those swordfish tooths without paying, whether they can be MQed or not.

Then instead of staying calm, the wizzy adds fuel to the fire, prompting a sharper threat. This was a no win situation in the end.

Where commerce is a good thing, EQ has become a monopoly of greed. I can understand selling items, but don't agree with doing it on MQ epic pieces, bad enough done with droppable ones. Heck I miss the days when EC was lag city with people selling and buying in the tunnel, watching a newb at least once every 10 minutes come running with a train of mobs in tow. I remember little 11th level me buying my first cloak from a sweet ogre for 300pp, which as a true newb was a lot back then, finding out later it was easily worth 1k. It was a kindess I've tried to pass on to others. I don't care if said spell is selling for 35k in the bazaar. If I have one and it's not needed by me or the guild, I'll toss it up for 10 to 15k and hope no greedy sucker buys it just to sell higher. After all, what is the cash and items in some game, a bunch of pixels, going to do for me irl. I get far more satisfaction helping others and making friends. :)

* it could have been handled much better *

Not really. A noob asked Moggom if he could loot a piece of the mob he killed. He said No, and the whiny bitch decided to go make a nag on that bullshit.

*wipes a teardrop from his eye*

Not really. A noob asked Moggom if he could loot a piece of the mob he killed. He said No, and the whiny bitch decided to go make a nag on that bullshit. (Emphasis mine.)

I was going to say that your situational awareness was impeccable, but it is patently obvious that you would miss the sarcasm. You actually managed to highlight my point, while entirely not getting it at the same time. Congratulations, Corky! You're one of the top candidates for taking a leading role in ABC's Life Goes On II.

yeah, people operate under the assumption that the game is about you versus the AI -- it's simply not. It's you and your friends versus everyone else and their friends. It's pvp without the ability to kill the other guy when he pisses you off. The only way to "keep points" is to kill the mob he wants more than he does.

Let's face it, how many people really don't enjoy a kill more when they know it came at the expense of someone else?

Is being first any fun without the realization that you're getting stuff before other people?

They should change the name of Everquest to Schadenfreude if they wanted it to be accurate.

Faust, check the what i call it to be a quote (dunno hwo to use ezboard codes really) and its obvious that im replying to the poster above my reply, not you.

Ahhh, mea cupla. Forget I said anything, the point is not valid as you were not talking to me. A thousand pardons...

Let's face it, how many people really don't enjoy a kill more when they know it came at the expense of someone else?

Sorry I believe in win win where ever possible. When we are going after BOT tower boss's and there is a different guild there. I send a tell and see if we can split the towers two for them and two for us. Who ever was there, and ready to go first gets to pick first.

There is two ways to make yourself better vs everyone else, One: Make yourself better. Two: Chop the other guy out at the knees.

No need to flame, I already know the majority here are in the option two camp.