Your weekly dose of Halliburton rage (http://www.wral.com/news/10176397/detail.html). ;)

Piss em off here

http://www.actblue.com/page/netrootscandidates

Your weekly dose of Halliburton rage (http://www.wral.com/news/10176397/detail.html). ;)

While I think the talk of impeachment hearings should the Democrats gain the control is ridiculous, I will fervently back anyone who is calling for an investigation into the Halliburton dealings both in Iraq and in the pre-Bush presidency Iranian contracts. I am still of the belief that Cheney and Halliburton had a hand in the development of the infrastructure required for the Iranian nuclear program.

Infrastructure is their bread and butter, and they were willing to circumvent both UN and US sanctions in order to take the contract with Iran, so greed won out, and maybe that decision will come back to bite them in the ass big time, and the rest of us as well. It is difficult for me to imagine any other major projects in Iran other than this, which would have required Halliburton's expertise.

It is difficult for me to imagine any other major projects in Iran other than this, which would have required Halliburton's expertise. ??

I must have missed the new Iraqi nuke plant built by your favorite company.

Thank god we built em a nuke plant, we dont want them using our oil! Well, one can only hope they complete construction by the time Iran is ready to take over operations.

So how do you square your hatred of Halliburton's deals for Iran with Clinton and Carter practically giving the technology to North Korea? Hell, they removed the middle man even.

So how do you square your hatred of Halliburton's deals for Iran with Clinton and Carter practically giving the technology to North Korea? Hell, they removed the middle man even.

Why do I need to sqaure anything? I have never made a comment on these boards one way or the other regarding Clinton and Carter's actions as you described, so why do you wish to ascribe a position to me?

Maybe I wouldn't have asked if you had been as outspoken about Clinton/Carter and NK.

You mean like you aren't outspoken at all about the mistakes of this administration, Akipt?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't seen a thread titled "This one for Akipt" with a central focus on what gets my veins popping at every mention of it.

And BTW, what 'mistakes of this administration'? :p

Maybe I wouldn't have asked if you had been as outspoken about Clinton/Carter and NK.

Sorry Akipt, but I have no intention of tailoring my thoughts and opinions to meet what you consider sufficiently correct. I have seen no reason to post about the diplomatic and foreign policy of previous leaders when I am addressing what I believe may be behavior bordering on traiterous by our own Vice President prior to his attaining the office, and the corrupt practices of the company of which he was the CEO; neither of the two leaders you mentioned were ever associated with said company as far as I know, so when I am addressing that company's practices it seems silly to bring into the discussion anyone not related to it.

It is like I am commenting on Star Wars, and you want to complain because I did not comment similarly on 2001: Space Oddysey. It is silly, at best.

Maybe I wouldn't have asked if you had been as outspoken about Clinton/Carter and NK.

But since you brought this to the table, if you can show me an example of either Clinton or Carter setting up an offshore office for a company they were CEO of, in order to circumvent UN and US sanctions against a country, and then going in and doing business with that country lining their pockets, only to later puff out their chest in phony patriotism and call that country a member of the Axis of Evil...............if you can do this, I will be more than happy to oblige with a commentary on what I think of it.

Jeez BY, you harp on such small details and cry foul when all that stuff pales in comparison to getting a blow job.

But since you brought this to the table, if you can show me an example of either Clinton or Carter setting up an offshore office for a company they were CEO of, in order to circumvent UN and US sanctions against a country, and then going in and doing business with that country lining their pockets, only to later puff out their chest in phony patriotism and call that country a member of the Axis of Evil...............if you can do this, I will be more than happy to oblige with a commentary on what I think of it. And yet you ignore how General Electric and many other US companies do even more business with Iran the same way.

How many American's have their pensions directly tied to the future of G.E.? I know my Vanguard account does.

I'll boldly wager if you have a 401k (and I'm sure you do) you're doing the same profiteering you're bitching about here incessantly. I think that's almost as ironic as Michael Moore owning Halliburton stock.

Anyway, it's not your incessant bitching about Halliburton that I even care about.

North Korea is our enemy and they now directly have nukes with no lack of help and support from the completely and utterly stupid actions of president Carter. And then Clinton went along with it.

I suppose they get a pass for not directly profiteering from it though.

Just sayin.

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't there a big gap between Carter and Clinton? Maybe time stopped in NK for all those years and the president here isn't included in your tirade?

Yes, you have to leave out Reagan and Bush Sr, if you don't then you won't be able to say...but...but Carter and but...but..Clinton. So just to help I'll add them in for you.


Reagan was mostly busy in arms deals with Iran at the time he was president, he was also busy sidestepping the issue of having a 0 response to 241 US Marines killed by a suicide bomber who was backed by the Iranians, a group you might have heard about recently...Hezzbollah. Well you see, they were about 250 strong at that time and Reagan decided it was best to let them live on....after all....why kill them over 241 replacable Marines.

Now Bush Sr, well he was much more concerned with keeping his friends in Saudi Arabia in power.

I will type slowly, Akipt, so that this might get through to you.

In Iran, the American Embassy was attacked. Hostages were taken. Americans were murdered in cold blood. Due to these actions, both the United Nations and the United States imposed sanctions against the country. Dick Cheney, as CEO of Halliburton, was directly responsible for setting up a shell company offshore, through which Halliburton contracted to do business in Iran. All mail and telephone communication went through the shell office and was re-routed directly to the home offices in Texas; this, while we were maintaining sanctions against Iran due to their attack against the US and taking of hostages and murder.

GE does not (and has not to the best of my knowledge) have a current VP or past VP on the board of directors or in a chief position at any point in the past thirty years. And, I am just as disgusted with them, btw; I just choose to direct my anger at the psuedo-patriot chosen to be the second in command of our nation. Dick Cheney represents everything that has gone wrong with the Republican Party in the past 20 years, and I resent that and will speak out against him at every opportunity.

You state North Korea is our enemy. Are you basing this on the fact that our nation was a part of a police action directed by the United nations? Or that we still have troops there as a part of that function, securing the border? Does that mean Serbia, Croatia, Macedonia, and all the other countries where we have troops as part of UN forces are to be considered enemies?

How about instead of tossing out all these other items of debate, you tell me why I should not be disgusted with Cheney and Halliburton; that is, after all, the point of contention. Tell me why you think it was okay for them to circumvent the sanctions, and do business with the country that attacked us and killed our citizens and took Americans hostage for over a year. Explain why you feel Cheney is not demonstrating a lack of integrity or honor when he rails against Iran after he himself was profitting from doing business with them under shady practices.

You keep defending Cheney with other topics, and comparisons to other people. Either he is a greedy, dishonest, psuedo-patriot or he is not.

Maybe I wouldn't have asked if you had been as outspoken about Clinton/Carter and NK
Someone remind me how many nukes NK produced during the Carter/Clinton years, and how many during the Bush 43 years.

You're all forgetting the final defense of every apologist, that any activity shared between people of opposing factions can not be truly wrong. The whole "ethical behavior" element, or any sort of personal culpability, never enters into it.

In ten or twenty years, I fully expect a large number of current American hypocrisies to be explained away as "well, that was just the way it was in 2005" in much the same way we largely excuse everyone from zealous preachers preemptively pardoning racist murders to Revolutionary slave owners to WW2 war profiteers as the lucky victims of their times.

This message board was around during the Carter years? San-chek must be one old geezer.

Fil

This message board was around during the Carter years? San-chek must be one old geezer.

Fil'

yes, but the graphics were not as good.

This message board was around during the Carter years? San-chek must be one old geezer.

Fil


NAG in DOS format was a real pain in the ass, I bet.

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't there a big gap between Carter and Clinton?
Yes, you have to leave out Reagan and Bush Sr, if you don't then you won't be able to say...but...but Carter and but...but..Clinton. So just to help I'll add them in for you.You guys don't even know Carter's role in 1994? Not surprising, gotta gloss over that history.

Someone remind me how many nukes NK produced during the Carter/Clinton years, and how many during the Bush 43 years.You mean after the Carter/Clinton agreement gave NK two nuke plants and billions in oil and food without any real consequences for continuing their enrichment programs?

You state North Korea is our enemy. Are you basing this on the fact that our nation was a part of a police action directed by the United nations? Whether you call them enemies, "enemies", nations who we struggle against, or just annoyances, we're currently enemies with NK and Iran whether you want to admit it or not.

How about instead of tossing out all these other items of debate, you tell me why I should not be disgusted with Cheney and Halliburton No, I really don't care whether you're disgusted or not. I just think you should be disgusted about other things too http://www.ayonae.ro/images/smilies/tongue.gif Maybe you've reached your vein popping quota already though.

Either he is a greedy, dishonest, psuedo-patriot or he is not. The CIA made him do it.

Wake up akipt. The Clinton plan of stalling NK as long as possible is the only one with any realistic hope or chance.

Guess what.. try to remember this part, because its important.

WE ARE NEVER (EVER) GOING TO TAKE ANY MILITARY ACTION OR ANY ACTION TO TOPPLE THE KIM JONG IL GOVERNMENT.

EVER. period, end of discussion. Everyone know this, from Kim Jong Il to Bush. The only people who dont realize this seem to be right wing morons with an myopic, distorted and exaggerated view of what our abilities and leverage is in this situation.

Why you may be asking. Im sure you will be asking, because nobody has thought of it for you yet. The bottom line is China will not allow a unified Korea at this point. It is in Chinas best interest to keep North Korea as is. As weak as possible, but dependant. Why?
As much as China may be annoyed with NK at times, it would 100x rather have a hermit, totalitarian regime under its thumb than a free open democratic society with strong, strong ties to the United States at its border. Not only that, but a Unified Korea would pretty closely resemble a unified Germany and quickly become regional, if not global powerhouse.

Imagine Kim Jong Il dies tomorrow. He gets Cancer, or hit by a bus, or drowns in a giant bottle of Courvoisier, w/e. In all likelyhood the country collapses and South Korea with massive US aid begins the reconciliation and unification process. China knows this is inevitiable and is doing everything it can to stall that day for as long as possible.

South Koreas technological expertise combined with North Koreas new cheap man power is not only an incredible economic, but military combination. In essence the new paradigm pretty much insures that Taiwan will never unify with China. By nature of US-Korean relations and the Taiwan Relations Act, China now has to deal with the prospect of fighting a war with US and Korean forces at its East and Indian US forces at its West with superior naval and air forces with nearby bases giving blanket coverage for a 500 mile push to Beijing.

Clintons plan of pausing or delaying Kim Jong Il with replacing NKs dependancy on China with wider broader dependency was correct. North Korea doesnt do diplomacy, it does need. Its like a junkie. Give it what it needs, it wont cause trouble, deprive it, it will act out. Its a waiting game, once the 65 year old tyrant dies, everything changes. But assassination is neither probable nor possible nor legal.

Wake up akipt.Actually I woke up an hour earlier than normal this morning for some reason.

The Clinton plan of stalling NK as long as possible is the only one with any realistic hope or chance.
Clintons plan of pausing or delaying Kim Jong Il with replacing NKs dependancy on China with wider broader dependency was correct.Reality check. Clinton's intentions were correct. The implementation of that plan sucked hind tit and everyone knew it.

WE ARE NEVER (EVER) GOING TO TAKE ANY MILITARY ACTION OR ANY ACTION TO TOPPLE THE KIM JONG IL GOVERNMENT.

EVER. period, end of discussion. Everyone know this, from Kim Jong Il to Bush. The only people who dont realize this seem to be right wing morons with an myopic, distorted and exaggerated view of what our abilities and leverage is in this situation.

Why you may be asking. Im sure you will be asking, because nobody has thought of it for you yet. Llearic makes farting noises to distract the room from the intellectual high-horse he's constantly falling from.

When you again have a practical use for that oversized brain of yours, let us know. In the mean time, know that when I call someone an enemy it does not make me a moron with an myopic, distorted and exaggerated view.

China knows this is inevitiable and is doing everything it can to stall that day for as long as possible. Yes, you get all the big picture right but it's the actual reality that you're going to miss completely. Listen closely, there will never ever be a united Korea again unless it's flying a Communist flag. Bet on it.

Whether you call them enemies, "enemies", nations who we struggle against, or just annoyances, we're currently enemies with NK and Iran whether you want to admit it or not.


My complaint all along has been with regard to Cheney and Halliburton giving aid and comfort to an enemy(Iran), so WTF are you blathering on about? You are so pissed at me attacking your man Cheney and the company he was CEO of that I don't think you are even reading, or at the least not comprehending, the text of the posts. I have said all along that Iran was our enemy. What pisses you off apparently is that I won't accept Cheney being a greedy, dishonest, pseudo-patriot and cashing in doing business with this country's enemies; you on the other hand seem content with that.

Your quote and comment replies would do little to square the behavior of Cheney and Halliburton with the families of those murdered and held hostage by Iran, our enemy.

I think we have to think about the term "Enemy"

We arent to engage either of these countries directly nor are they ever going to engage us. Enemy connotes a willingness on either/both party to confront attack and destroy the other.

Rivals would probably fit better since it is competing interests and not direct action.

Clintons plan of pausing or delaying Kim Jong Il with replacing NKs dependancy on China with wider broader dependency was correct. North Korea doesnt do diplomacy, it does need. Its like a junkie. Give it what it needs, it wont cause trouble, deprive it, it will act out. Its a waiting game, once the 65 year old tyrant dies, everything changes. But assassination is neither probable nor possible nor legal.


Careful L2, you're treading into the realm of real international relations that easily gets one branded as looney. Next thing you know you might consider that our plolicy towards NK over the last few decades might not have been effective or even sensical, and then god help you. Last time I suggested that there was a better solution to NK than calling Rambo, you'd think it involved using transfat fried later-term abortions to feed third world countries.

I think we have to think about the term "Enemy"

We arent to engage either of these countries directly nor are they ever going to engage us. Enemy connotes a willingness on either/both party to confront attack and destroy the other.

Rivals would probably fit better since it is competing interests and not direct action.

Iranian radicals attacked our embassy, took Americans hostage, killed Americans, all without the leaders of the country making any effort to intervene. They can be considered nothing else but an enemy. Just because time has passed since the event, does not change the event; we have not resumed previous relations or changed the sanctions against them.

Thats what we call blowback.

Blowback is a term now broadly used in espionage to describe the unintended consequences of covert operations. Because the public generally is unaware of secret operations, the consequences transpire as a surprise, apparently random and without cause, and blowback results.

http://www.lobster-magazine.co.uk/articles/l30iran.htm (THIS IS REQUIRED READING)

See, Iran wont sell Britian oil for cheap anymore, so the CIA and MI6 overthrow their government and replace it with the very western friendly Shah, who graciously resumed cheap oil sales, meanwhile stifling any oppostion ruthlessly and murderously. So much so that all moderates are eliminated and the only ones left are the ultra hardcore Islamists. SAVAK becomes one of the most notorious and vicious police entities of the 20th century with unlimted powers of arrest, detention and torture, trained and aided by our CIA in its fight with Communism.

So the Shah is toppled and the Iranians storm our Embassy...

And Americans ask themselves.. "Why do they hate us?"

We arent pristine virgins, we arent innocent victims.

edit note: I was writing this and almost done when the power went out... Firefox 2 restored my page and what I wrote before I submit. It pwns.. get it.

ding dong, we have a winneur.

Yes, Firefox is a winneur.

Fil

mea culpa

Firefox 2 didn't help you in posting this to the right thread.

Firefox 2 didn't help you in posting this to the right thread.

Heh, beat me to it.

sonnava....

You can improve the Browser, but not the User.


DOH!