Some of you are fortunate to work for yourselves. I have a few questions for those that are able to share their story.

First how did you go about starting your business? Did you buy it from someone or start it from scratch.

Did you know what you were doing within the market niche of whatever your business you were in, ie: turn a hobby into one.

How did you fund it? business loan, out of pocket, investors.

How many people do you have working for you, and does it bring enough to live off of.

How hard was it to set up a client database, and/or keep them.

What exactly does your business do.

How long did it take to become profitable.

How many hours do you put in each week.

And how do you go about keeping books, and all your papers in order to opperate.

And lastly, was it hard as hell? Or easier than you expected.


Im sure I will come up with other Q's someday, but for those able to share your experience, I thank you in advance.

My gf was laid off in July and so she decided to go into business for herself. I'll answer these questions for her.



Some of you are fortunate to work for yourselves. I have a few questions for those that are able to share their story.

First how did you go about starting your business? Did you buy it from someone or start it from scratch. She didn't buy it; she started from scratch. First she applied for her fictiious name and had to post it in the newspaper.

Did you know what you were doing within the market niche of whatever your business you were in, ie: turn a hobby into one. She's been doing side jobs and free lance for years she just ramped it up a bit.

How did you fund it? business loan, out of pocket, investors. We are funding it on a shoe string budget at the moment and all profits go back to building it up.

How many people do you have working for you, and does it bring enough to live off of. It's just her unless you count me and her dad who is helping her with the books and accounting stuff. It is streaky at the moment but were she without me, no it wouldn't be enough to live off of. She has allot of worked billed but it takes 15 to 30 days to receive payment so she's trying to bill things just right so that it will be a consistent pay day.

How hard was it to set up a client database, and/or keep them. As crazy as it may seem she's just using Outlook Contacts for her clients and it's working well for her.

What exactly does your business do. http://leahsdeas.com she's working on her website this week; and she just ordered some advertising magnets for her car. Since she used to work for a printer she's made a few deals with them to have postcards and business cards made in exchange for art/design time. So she's out spreading the word with those.

How long did it take to become profitable. Eh, we're still waiting to see black instead of red :) But, we're only 2 solid months into things and we're still spending allot for start up costs.

How many hours do you put in each week. Actual time? I'm unsure but it is definitely more than 40hrs.

And how do you go about keeping books, and all your papers in order to opperate. She uses her dad who is a retired CFO and does books on the side for several companies since he's retired.

And lastly, was it hard as hell? Or easier than you expected. It's been hard; especially for me b/c I'm not patient but seeing the last few checks roll in I'm starting to get happy. I worry mostly about how she is going to do taxes.


Im sure I will come up with other Q's someday, but for those able to share your experience, I thank you in advance.

My brother in law and sister have started their own biz recently, so I can throw in their two cents as well:

First how did you go about starting your business? Did you buy it from someone or start it from scratch.

Did you know what you were doing within the market niche of whatever your business you were in, ie: turn a hobby into one. They started a home maintenance company, he's been in the HVAC buisness for 12 years so had a strong background in the industry.

How did you fund it? business loan, out of pocket, investors. They funded some of it from their savings, but my parents also gave them some seed money.

How many people do you have working for you, and does it bring enough to live off of. Right now, its just the two of them, but they have plans to bring another person on board once things are stable.

How hard was it to set up a client database, and/or keep them. Quite easy to build it up, they joined a local business networking group ($250 annual fee) and used some of his former clients as references.

What exactly does your business do. HVAC (Heating, Ventilation, Air Conditioning), Plumbing, Electrical. Small stuff, he doesnt have his general contractor license yet, but everything is negotiable :)

How long did it take to become profitable. They've only been at it for 3 months now, but they hit black for the first time this month (October). It wasnt by much, but it's a start.

How many hours do you put in each week. It's hard to say, it really depends on how many jobs they have lined up, but tops I'd say about 50 hours.

And how do you go about keeping books, and all your papers in order to opperate. My sister is handling the books, using QuickBooks and another app who's name I cant remember.

And lastly, was it hard as hell? Or easier than you expected. Both I'd say. It's hard because its hard work, but easy in that you're the boss, dont have to do what you're told. And you left off one thing, it's rewarding as hell. I've not seen my brother and sister so happy as when they are hard at work for *their* business.

Good luck!

I kinda fell into my business. I was in a job I hated and knew I could do better than my boss there at the time. The way the story goes is Sportcenter on ESPN had to fill an extra 4 minutes of programming each evening because Hockey was on strike. My old college roomate works for a congressional publication called the National Journal and he was writing about how exciting it was that the Nationals were coming to DC and you could go to a Orioles game and a Nats game during the same day, a "Marc Train Series". ESPN read his column, decided to make a story out of it, and scheduled to shoot him and his friends (me!) going to both games. When I was at the game I simply told one of the camera operators that my job sucked and that I should be doing what he was doing. We went to meet for lunch the next day for "advice" and he told me to quit my job and start working for him for the next 30 days without pay. After 30 days he gave me a list of 10 of his friends and told me to call them and see if any would hire me "freelance". I blew most of my savings those first few months and racked up a lot of interest free credit card debt, but finally by about August (4 months in) I was breaking even. Today I make about 10x a month what I made back then in August so its become quite profitable. Of all the profits I put half in the bank for retirement and invest the other half in new equipment.

The real business side tricks have been dealing with hiring people and purchasing equipment. I applied to become Chad Horn, LLC right away so if for some reason I defaulted on payment my own personal credit didn't go into the shitter. I applied for a small business loan to get some initial funds to purchase an editing system and an audio mixer. Now the way work comes in this business is that people call and ask "can you handle suchandsuch at (enter time)" and you have to be the first one to say yes. Even if I'm already booked for a shoot I take them on and hire other people to go out and do the shoot in my name. Sometimes those very same people I hire today will hire me tomorrow to work for their clients, so its a good trade all around. I got burned on this once where someone screwed up and audio dropped out, but generally I've been growing my client base quite rapidly and today I have 3 television crews out working for me just a year and a half after starting.

A small business generally you'll expect to work far longer hours than a corporate job. I figure I could be working for the government making $60,000 a year and have such an easy time of it with full benefits and comp time if I work overtime - though no one in the government ever works past 4 pm on a Friday. Instead I settle for a little more than that, but pay for my own benefits and sure work more than 40 hours a week. I also make myself invaluable to people and work on the weekends and holidays - last year I worked for ESPN on Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, and 3 days following never being able to make it home for the Holday until Jan. But, they called me 3 months before our first Monday Night Football game to make sure I was free to work with them this season.

For my books, I have an accountant. There are so many things I never would have thought of, and never understood. I can write off any movies I go see or any CDs I buy as research. I have a small business owner IRA which is like a retirement plan but I can also take the money out to buy a house.

It was hard, it was pretty scary. When you make a lot less than your expenses and you only have so much savings - thats a scary thing. There were plenty of nights I called my mom ready to throw in the towel and had to have her talk me out of it. This year I'm ready for it, I know that while you may work 28 days in October you'll only work 7 days in February and have the money saved up for it this time around.

I'm sure Rover is gonna offer a lot of great advice below, as well :)

thats rather amazing stuff guys, i appreciate the tales keep em rollin.

if anyone has questions to add, feel free to throw em in, just dont hijack and go off topic, or else ill send the gnomes on your asses.

kelraz, dont pull ira funds, its risky, from what i know there are 2 things that may or not be true, i havent dabbled much in this, im only 22 so i havent looked too much into retirement other than money markets and stocks/mutual funds.

from what i understand you have to replace the funds within 60 days to not have a tax penalty, or if youre 59.5 years old. However i "think" that if its your first house youre purchasing you get it tax free (if someone knows this trow it in)

nice story btw, i didnt realize you worked for yourself. media is a good industry. congratulations on how far you have gotten, ya damn bard!~ and nice move on the LLC, definately my choice for personal business :)

ps: this is the best long winded thread ever!

edit:
i found the ira stuff dont know if this is current
In 1997, Congress made it possible for traditional IRA holders to make a lifetime withdrawal of up to $10,000 for a first-time home purchase. This withdrawal is exempt from the 10 percent early withdrawal penalty but it isn't exempt from state and local taxes. Further, this withdrawal may be used by you or a relative, such as a spouse, child or grandchild.
so yea, not a good idea imo regardless.

Some of you are fortunate to work for yourselves. I have a few questions for those that are able to share their story.

First how did you go about starting your business? Did you buy it from someone or start it from scratch.

I started my current business in late 1994. My first client was Craft Maid Custom Kitchens and is still my client today. I started from scratch.


Did you know what you were doing within the market niche of whatever your business you were in, ie: turn a hobby into one.

I kind of knew what I was doing as far as I knew what my market niche needed, but being website design was a new thing I was on even ground with basically everyone who was designing websites as we were all new at it.



How did you fund it? business loan, out of pocket, investors.

I funded strictly out of pocket and have never accepted any outside financing.


How many people do you have working for you, and does it bring enough to live off of.

The number of employees/sub-contractors I have at any given time is relevant to our workload at the time.


How hard was it to set up a client database, and/or keep them.

Not hard to set up a client database at all there are many out of the box applications that suit us fine. Keeping clients is not that difficult as long as you give good value/service. Don't misinterpret value as being cheap.


What exactly does your business do.

Website design, ecommerce design, Internet marketing and consultation, SEO and SEM.

How long did it take to become profitable.

Not that long, we also have very low overhead.

How many hours do you put in each week.

I've been known at times to put in excess of 120 hours.

And how do you go about keeping books, and all your papers in order to opperate.

Quickbooks Pro and a good organized business partner named Squish

And lastly, was it hard as hell? Or easier than you expected.

Hard as hell, a great learning experience.

I misunderstood your clients database question. So I'll add another reply :)

Her former employer the one who laid her off is giving her tons of work, and through that she's making contact with other people. Plus she's been doing this for many years so she has several people she does side jobs for and has been for over 10 years. It's really something she was just ready to do instead of work for someone else; her clients increase through word of mouth and advertising.

The advice Kelraz gave about incorporating yourself is important. That was the first step she took. If your business craps you don't want your credit hitting the shitter too.

Hi Rover,

Just curious - are you aware of the warrior forum?

congratulations on how far you have gotten, ya damn bard!~

When we finally start our own original programming, ideally feature films or some sort of scripted television show, we're gonna switch our name from Chad Horn, LLC to something like "Bard Pictures" - bards being professional story tellers, despite the Everquest reference :)

The IRA is only tax free for your first house purchase, thats correct. It comes out of your income pre-taxes as well.

One thing my accountant told me is that if everyone starts putting $2,000 away per year at the age of 21 - by the time they turn 65 that could be over a half million dollars with compound interest and something like that. I forget the specifics, but it boggles the mind. Another comparison was that if you put money away from when you were 21 to when you were 45 vs the same ammount 45 to 65 you'd have double the money starting earlier than later.

Roth IRA is better from what I hear, this way it comes out post taxes, and you dont have to pay taxes down the road when you retire. Every financial pro I've heard generally leans toward Roth IRA. Vanilla IRA you save money pre-taxes; however you get taxed when you retire, which just blows. Basically defeats the purpose of bypassing pre-taxation.

So basically none of you guys do any kind of agressive advertising, its all just word of mouth and acquaintances; interesting how that works, almost like magic.

I got a few ideas im tossing around, but im scared to death to try and go on my own. Id imagine I need quite a few dollars in savings before I dare try and quit my job. I have quite a few things I can do, ranging from remote IT related things, to making web apps (overflooded with people who already do that), to car related crap. Maybe even take over full time stocks, but Im too young and dumb to do that yet, I got 2 figures sitting in some stocks losing money. And realestate is down the shitter lately, so much that Im holding off on buying a house. Scary stuff.

Im considering starting something car related, like perhaps a race track (not a huge one, just for people to drift on) or car shop. This is probably a bit more harder than just working out of the house. Id have to find land, in the right zoning, and build a track. Id imagine noise laws and polution laws would come to play, aswell as all kinds of liability and insurance. If anyone has experience with property zoning and what kind of laws would prohibit that, please throw your 2 plat in.


Kelraz, how hard was it to secure a business loan (and can i ask how many figures it was?). Was it just a matter of dressing up, going to a bank. How did the process go? And when you secure the loan, does it get underwritten for your business, meaning you start to establish a credit line using your business (not related to your personal self/being).

Oh and when are you gonna start producing your own material? Are you doing everything sport related right now or what? And where can I see some of your work on live TV haha.

So basically none of you guys do any kind of agressive advertising, its all just word of mouth and acquaintances; interesting how that works, almost like magic.

Aggressive advertising costs a ton of cash. The magnets for the car ran nearly $200 and that was still way better than what a 1/4 page ad in the local newspaper would cost for a week. She is going to mail out 500 postcards to prospective clients; she's been compiling her mailing list the past two weeks. That cost? Design time for a job and she bartered with a printer to run her the postcards, business cards, and brochures. It's amazing how expensive that crap can be.

Kelraz, how hard was it to secure a business loan (and can i ask how many figures it was?). Was it just a matter of dressing up, going to a bank. How did the process go? And when you secure the loan, does it get underwritten for your business, meaning you start to establish a credit line using your business (not related to your personal self/being).

I'm interested in this myself because I feel like if we can just get over a few high cost hurdles she'd be better off. We just bit the bullet this weekend and bought a mid-entry color laser jet that does CMYK so she can send color proofs to clients. The next step is getting a better mac, and a FED-EX account so she doesnt' have to drive to the post office/mailboxes etc every time she needs to mail out proofs.



Today we're going to an unemployment hearing. Once she reported that she was making money from side jobs they stopped her unemployment one month after it started. Eventhough she's been doing stuff on the side for years, apparently PA Dept of Labor would prefer her to work at McDonalds 20hrs a week instead of doing her side stuff and still looking for a job which she's been doing and has had several interviews. It was until the dicks took the unemployment away that we decided to ramp up her sideline business. So much for being honest. /sigh

Yea theres always equipment involved with anything you do, oh well, at least its not a steel melting foundry where you need huge ovens that costs millions.

And yea, uncle sam loves to take your money, but the moment you try and take some back hes all over your ass like fly on shit. Just think, with most people in the 20-30% bracket, thats avg 25 cents he keeps; for every dollar we make, we only get to keep 75cents. I seriously dont see anything constructive being done with my money, the war has not affected my in any way, just the lame laws they keep passing that slowly take away our rights.

fildien: How did she get her mailing list started? Drive by places and write down addy's or did she pay someone for it. I know my roomies boss buys his lists from what I understand, and the list is highly niched for people most likely to use his services.

My business loan was only $35,000. I spent $18,000 on a new computer / edit bay, $2,000 on a field mixer, another $8,000 on microphones and all that crap. I still rent the various decks I need because there's so many video formats out there anymore (Beta, DV, HDV, MiniDV, XD, etc etc.) but pass all that off to the client.

I make payments of around $1,000 a month for my loan, so I can pay it off fast like. I think I could get away only repaying $400 a month though. Basically I just went into the bank and asked nicely :) There was some applications and through it all they gave me a credit card and some other stuff as well, a whole "small business package". My personal credit was excellent, my companies was naturally non-existant, so my interest rate is probably shitty but what can you do? I imagine most banks have similiar stuff like that.

One huge resource would be the local chamber of commerce. They exist solely to help businesses. Then you just get into the right circles and hope your name gets passed along. I also advertise / hunt for jobs on Craigslist as well as 4 different mailing listserves for television & video professionals in my area.

That's awesome Kelraz, it's great to hear of a business success!!

I've been a business owner twice now, and man all I can say is it's FREAKIN HARD WORK! Yes, you work for yourself, and yes you are the boss, but here's the dose of reality most people don't realize.....if you don't get out of bed and go to work, you don't get paid. It's that simple.

Self discipline is the key and by the sounds of it, you have no problems there. ;)

I was fortunate enough to look at what my business was doing at the time, realize that it was no longer feasible, and come away clean. Credit rating still sparkles, I'm still married, still have my son, still have my house and I haven't had to give up any of my organs, so I think I made out ok hehe. Sometimes you hold em, sometimes you fold em, but it beats being bankrupt. ;)

I do dream of being self employed again one day, but right now I'm kinda enjoying letting someone else worry about the overhead. One day though.... :p

fildien: How did she get her mailing list started? Drive by places and write down addy's or did she pay someone for it. I know my roomies boss buys his lists from what I understand, and the list is highly niched for people most likely to use his services.

Well she's had her "company" since 1991 though at times it was more active than others and she's had clients since that time. Mostly though she has an idea of what types of places seek the services of a designer and that is where she is going to send her stuff. Places like printers and book publishers, she's doing everything herself (research etc) so she hasn't bought any addresses yet. The internet has been her tool. Allot of the big printers are moving to outsource their designers b/c it's getting too expensive so they are always looking for someone to do jobs for them. This has been her butter the past two months but she's also gotten some good leads from book and magazine publishers.

The unemployment compensation hearing I don't think went too well. Eventhough she's had the sideline business since 1991 she ramped it up in September and so they see it as her starting a new business so bleh. We'll know in 4-6 weeks.

I stumbled across this tonight and while I admit it's dated it undoubtedly has good info.

http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/biz/adviser/20001208a.asp

Kelraz when you got that loan did it follow anything of what this guy is saying here?

Hi Rover,

Just curious - are you aware of the warrior forum?

No...what is it?


Any how, the bottom line in business is to have more money coming in than you have going out. I know I over simplify things when I write but thats usually because I have little time or am basically wiped out when I do have time.

I think Kelraz will be a force to be reckoned with in his field, he has great drive, initiative and it seems alot of confidence in himself...those are ALL the right ingredients to make a business happen.

Here are a few rules/advice that experience has taught me over the years:

One of the hardest things in business is to remember what you were going to remember to do!

You are the last to be paid...but the checks are really big!

Business is like a war....good strategy will always trump your competition.

When you are talking a deal with someone...if one of the first things they tell you is that they are a christian...it means you are about to get ripped off.

Never let the other guy know what you are thinking.

Its better to be underestimated than to be overestimated.

Be ready to change course at the snap of a finger.

Stick to what you do best...let your managers manage...stay off their backs and let them manage.

This is a good thread... I just wanted to add here that my view of business is all about real estate.... put what every you want on top of a piece of land, and let it pay for the real estate it sits on.

Ultimately no matter what it is, I consider it a real estate deal (whether it is my wifes practice or rental property).

The one buisness I have that I am renting out is my least favorite. If I break even in a given month in my mind I have gained nothing.... All I have done is help pay the company who we are renting from their rent so they will own the land....bleh.

FYI that will be the first business I sell. I am waiting until after the Christmas/holiday season then my plans are to put it up for sale.....unless it does really big.


EDIT: Oh and it is almost always "hard". There are always problems and things to get done. People get sick, competition pops up, things break. And about once a year I think about getting out of almost everything and just work.

okay i'm too impatient at the moment to learn how to quote on this forum board.... heh

anyway, rover, it's an internet marketing forum board with a all internet gurus (even that "rich jerk" character and willy crawford) that run internet (and some brick and mortar) businesses. A lot make well over 1mil+.

[ q u o t e ] whatever you want in here [ / q u o t e ]

obviously without the spaces

Some of you are fortunate to work for yourselves. I have a few questions for those that are able to share their story.

First how did you go about starting your business? Did you buy it from someone or start it from scratch.

Started from scratch on a shoestring budget

Did you know what you were doing within the market niche of whatever your business you were in, ie: turn a hobby into one.

I learned the business from previous employment.

How did you fund it? business loan, out of pocket, investors.

Mostly out of pocket and funneling profits back into it.

How many people do you have working for you, and does it bring enough to live off of.

At one time, we had about 8 employees. I had trimmed that (through attrition mostly) down to 4 when I sold the business.

How hard was it to set up a client database, and/or keep them.

There are many good off-the-shelf programs for this. Most accounting software packages handle it nicely.

What exactly does your business do.

My business was an automotive machine/rebuilding shop that specialized mostly in higher-end vehicles.

How long did it take to become profitable.

If I recall, it took about a year to reliably break even from one month to the next. My business seldom showed an actual profit as far as taxes are concerned, which was intentional on my part, but I made good money from it. (I was a salaried employee/officer of the company.)

How many hours do you put in each week.

All of them! I was the first one to get there and the last one to leave, almost every day for 12 years.I also spent a great deal of time working from home after hours (website, databases and such.) One of the reasons I sold was so I could spend more quality time with my wife and children, without the stress and worry of running a business always in the back of my mind.

And how do you go about keeping books, and all your papers in order to opperate.

As mentioned before, there are many good off the shelf accounting software packages that are relatively inexpensive. What you choose and how much you spend on it will depend on your particular situation and the needs of your business. Keep it simple in the beginning if you can, as you will need this time to just learn how to run a business.

And lastly, was it hard as hell? Or easier than you expected.

It is the hardest thing you are ever likely to do in life. You will experience stress (both good and bad) like you never have before. Some can cope with it well and others cannot. You won't know until you try it though.

I have been working for the person I sold to as part of the sales agreement and I tell you, it's like I am on vacation even though I am doing pretty much the same thing. I leave at night and when I do, all of the worry stays there. But I do lose some amount of freedom. It's a trade off.

I know I am being a bit harsh in how hard it is, but.... it is hard and anyone that paints a rosy picture for you is not telling the whole story. Having said that, owning your own business can have rewards that working for someone else just can't match and that's what it's all about! =)


Im sure I will come up with other Q's someday, but for those able to share your experience, I thank you in advance.

Good Luck!