Sitting home sick and watching the news, they just reported on a 27 year old mother of three in New York who killed her three children. The mother is reported to have mental or emotional problems.

A couple years back we had a schizophrenic mother here in Minnesota toss her two children off a bridge into the Mississippi. I have heard of other cases as well of emotionally and mentally disturbed mothers killing or attempting to kill their children.

At what point do the Right To Life folks start looking at these situations and demanding that those diagnosed as being unstable be prevented from being able to bear children, for the sake of those children. All the gnashing of teeth about a fetus being aborted seems pretty ridiculous if that fetus is going to be killed in an even more heinous fashion by the parent a few years later.

At what point do we as civilized people start discussing these questions in conjunction with the aborton debate?

I seem to recall that in the "Good old days" of institutions, mentally retarded women were sterilized.

Personally I have no issue with it. There are some people, however, that say you are violating the rights of a woman to have children, ect, ect.

Its no good if all that is going to happen to the child, is a miserable existence, and an untimley death.

The dilemma is quite like Phillip Dick's short story Minority Report.

Thousands upon thousands of women have depression. I've even known friends or parents of friends to go into mental hospitals for treatment. Hell, most women go through some form of post-partumdepression. Are they unfit to have a child?

And since Sixee wants to sterilize the retarded (dear god, you know there are varying levels of mental retardation, right?) what level of retardation would warrant sterilization? Never mind that every day new techniques of helping those with mental impairment and most that choose to are parts of happy, loving family units.

The ones who should be sterilized are the ones that will commit the crime - and since there is no way of proving if someone will commit a crime without them actually doing it, doing it on innocents that *might* do something would be quite barbaric.

Kelraz's last paragraph hits the nail on the head. It's not easy to predict behavior, and how do you punish a person ahead of time for the possibility that they might commit a crime? That 27 year old in Byl's post was once childless and may not have been symptomatic at the time she had those children.

Sure, you could sterilize afterward, but she's probably in prison/mental ward for a good long time afterward -- not the greatest dating scene.
And since Sixee wants to sterilize the retarded...The jokes, they practically write themselves.

It's a very complicated matter, but I'd lean away from forced sterilization in favor of better access to mental/medical care for the citizenry.

Sadly even some people who do have access to excellent medical/mental care don't ever get past their problems.

Even with this issue hitting close to home, my neice's mother and neice both have diagnosed mental illness I'm not sure where I stand on this issue. Many times I think it's sad that my neice was brought into this world under the circumstances she's had to endure but then I think about how happy I am to be able to help her and how glad I am she's in my life. But when she has her episodes and puts me thru hell (as I am currnently experiencing with her) I pray that she doesn't have kids.

This is a sticky topic and depending on the day and circumstances I could lean one way and then completely change my mind.

If it hadn't been for Nazi Germany causing eugenics to be vilified, we'd probably have been doing that for quite some time by now. For that matter, weren't we a century ago?

(dear god, you know there are varying levels of mental retardation, right?)


The jokes, they practically write themselves.


Indeed. Both of you are proof you can be mentally impaired, yet still use the intraweb.

Now that we have heard from the "everyone is special" crowd, I sympathisize with you, Fild, and hope that things smooth out for you.

And my previous statement was meant to infer, that women that are incarcerated for crimes against children should be sterilized.

Men that are convicted of such, can be chemically castrated to help prevent a repeat offence, why not women?

yet still use the intraweb.


You are obvious proof yourself there sixee, everyone knows it is known as the Intertubes!



Men that are convicted of such, can be chemically castrated to help prevent a repeat offence, why not women?

Vaginas are more fun?

Chemical castration is reversible (stop the medication), while tubal ligation isn't without surgery (and success rates aren't so fabulous). As Fild mentions, post-partum depression affects a significant percentage of new mothers, yet most don't kill their children.

Incidents like this, while awful, are a tiny drop in the bucket compared to the tens of thousands of cases of more banal neglect and abuse resulting from unplanned pregnancies to the ill-prepared or simply young and poor. If the (vast majority of the) pro-life crowd actually cared about all those poor fetuses once they arrived into said households, they wouldn't also support the policies that result in increased creation of said unwanted little darlings and then ensuring they remain vulnerable, yes? (And by example I mean things like 'abstinence only' sex ed, lack of insurance coverage for, and the right to *refuse* to dispense birth control by pharmacists, 'workfare' programs that require single mothers to work out of the home full time in order to receive benefits, etc etc).

Despite the fact that I make no secret of my opinion that there's *entirely* too much breeding going on, I don't support forced sterilization of anyone save the profoundly retarded, and then because pregnancy in these cases is almost inevitably the result of abuse by a caretaker or family member.

Regards,
Nydia

Many people who are sick in the head. Either do not recognise it as abnormal, even hide it or lie about it to appear normal for sometime. Wont seek treatment, turn on those who try to get them help.

Get there conditions written off as stress or depression since they dont have the insurance to cover more diagnostic treatment or they wont go. They have trouble holding onto jobs relationships.

Get help then stop taking there meds the list goes on. mental disease is a huge variable if past behavior is a prelude to sterlization then kiling your kids is definlty a guideline for it. But its to broad of an issue to just mass sterlize people. Then the sick really wont go for help when they have that enlightening moment that they want help.

Chemical castration is reversible

Also, it does not stop the behavior; it is designed to blunt the sex drive, but as all the studies will tell you sexual crimes are not about sex but instead are driven by the need for control and power over another. A limp dick will not change that need for control. In fact, a more violent act may be the result, due to the inability to use the sex act as an act of power.

As to the topic, I am not really in favor of forced sterilzation, but it was the only thing that came to mind while hearing that news report this morning. We could always license parenthood, I guess. Make the prospective parent(s) take classes and training in the proper care of a baby, before granting permission to conceive. That would help weed out some of the potential bad apples. But what would the penalty be for unlicensed pregnancies?

It just seems that we could somehow do something better than allow these children to be born into such hopelessness, if we really want to consider ourselves to be a civilized people.

It just seems that we could somehow do something better than allow these children to be born into such hopelessness, if we really want to consider ourselves to be a civilized people.

Same can be said of people from third world countries. Why would anyone bring a child into a hopeless chain of starvation war and disease. does it make us better if the US or any world power, castrates, nuetuers anyone who might be a mental case or finicial hardship upon society.

I watched a show about the aftermath of CHernobyl today, It toed in alot with another show about the day people left. In 20 years how nature has recouped the land. Thou there is radiation the plant and animal life flourished and species that havent blossomed in years began to take over the area 30km around the site. Wolves bears house cats rare birds and insects.

Flourished without the touch of man, even thou there life cycle was cut short from the radiation levels and a shorter life cycle from predators there was no proof of tumors in the animals.

Kind of Darwinistic in that that they comapred even birds with mutations of color did not survive due to other of there species failing to mate with them and died within a short genreation of mutation.

If we didnt have the medicine Healthcare welfare then societies weakest would be cast off. Do you really see the weak surviving in Somalia Megadeshu ect.

Also, it does not stop the behavior; it is designed to blunt the sex drive, but as all the studies will tell you sexual crimes are not about sex but instead are driven by the need for control and power over another.Rape has a strong power-driven component to it. I'm not so sure about other crimes, such as incest and pedophilia.

Yeah, we need more upstanding citizens like this to breed:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080226/ap_on_re_us/disabled_woman_beaten;_ylt=AvfEfrgPncMbA3I0Qi2bkZ8 DW7oF

Two teenagers hid overnight in a house and spent more than six hours torturing a disabled woman after her mother left in the morning, authorities said.

Butler County Sheriff Richard Jones said the teenage boy and girl tied up the 18-year-old woman, clubbed her, kicked her, shaved her head and soaked her with water before making her walk barefoot outside in the snow.

Thats just...horrible. Those two should absolutely be tried as adults.