The health care insurance lobby just blew it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/12/insurers-mount-attack-aga_n_317159.html

They launched a full attack today promising to raise rates 111% if reform passes. Of course.. they dont mention that in the last 10 years, rates have risen 119%

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/Content/News/News-Releases/2009/Aug/Employer-Sponsored-Health-Insurance-Premiums-Increase-119-Percent.aspx

By threatening and trying to use scare tactics.. I think they really blew it.

To quote Anthony Weiner (D-NY)
If you have the health care industry complaining that we’re going to raise costs because of these changes, it is them putting us on notice that we haven’t put enough cost containment in the bill. You know, the health care industry themselves is putting out a whole report saying that. That should be a tell to the Baucus team that you know what, maybe it’s time for them to go back and revisit the public option.
In a strange way, and look, obviously they didn’t mean this, the health insurance lobby today fired the most important salvo in weeks for the public option, because they have said, as clear as day, left to their own devices, according to their own number crunchers, they’re going to raise rates 111%. And that’s why, you know we have a petition at CountdownToHealthCare.com where we’re telling people for the moderates in the Senate, the so-called moderates, and for the White House, we need the public option, and the health care industry is making our argument for us.

How many times have I said they are little more than a modern-day protection racket? Their tactics and business models are no different than those used by the organized crime folks, with the main difference being they (the insurance industry) probably own more elected officials due to the lobbying rules.

Once again for real reform. Congress needs to be on public health care.

Sen. Snowe and now Collins both concidering voting for the bill, along with every Democrat, would be 60 yes 39 no. Seems this has had some impact indeed.

Going to bankrupt me dammit, oh well hey as long as the Dems and their flag wavers get their win

Going to bankrupt me dammit, oh well hey as long as the Dems and their flag wavers get their win

I'm still saving this bookmark: http://ayonae.com/showpost.php?p=172720&postcount=239

Still waiting to hear the Republicans idea/fix to our current health care cluster f$%^. All I hear or see is bitch, moan, crickets....

Oh please Fanny. It wont bankrupt you. That's ridiculous.

btw. I told you so. Next time listen to me.

Although It hasnt "yet" gone to reconciliation, solely because of Snowe's vote. But I think it still might after the bill comes out of Joint Committee.

Going to bankrupt me dammit, oh well hey as long as the Dems and their flag wavers get their win

Please explain how so, as compared to your current insurance. I am curious.

Please explain how so, as compared to your current insurance. I am curious.

myths perpetrated by the republican party and the health insurance industry.

Because atm I'm between working and medicare ( about 4 to 5 months off ) due to a fall off of a F16 and spinal injury. Right now I don't have medical insurance and my cash flow is cut considerably. I can't work at my 70k plus job, a job that would've had me higher once I got a few promotions. That's over now, as is my insurance.

So before you speak up, get a few facts dammit....for once, and not from Huffington post or other fucking spoon fed feeds. Those of us without insurance are going to be forced to buy expensive insurance.

Because you dumb fucks wanted this bandaide fix before they actually worked on the issues why insurance is so costly. Because so many left wingers think throwing money and making laws is the way to go instead of getting at the cause. Because ya'll want to work on effects and the public flash in the fucking pan instead of the reality of it. Because too fucking many of you left wing jackasses think the govt knows how to help you instead of figuring out that you shouldn't try to fucking rule from the polls..


Jesus some of you should know better, but hey enjoy your fucking worthless win. it's going to crush some of us...

Sorry to hear about the employment situation Fanny, but I don't think you're really understanding what you're angry about here.

If you're in a bad spot and uninsured, every version of the bill includes a subsidy to reduce your premiums; Also, have you considered the alternative, which is waiting for something serious to happen to you again WITHOUT insurance?

myths perpetrated by the republican party and the health insurance industry.

You have no stake in this fight.. GTFO

You have no stake in this fight.. GTFO

the truth hurts, doesnt it?

what stake do you have, own stock in Kaiser Permanente?

See the thing is, they should fix the unregulated costs and malpractice before they play for the polls. It'll hurt more than it helps if they do what they're about to do.

Most of you don't get it, you can't because you don't look at trouble shooting processes and going after the cause rather than the effect that the press tells you is the target.

As for L2 crowing he said that bill would pass, sorry bub but this is a different run this time.....do you not understand the bs you are typing about at times?

See the thing is, they should fix the unregulated costs and malpractice before they play for the polls. It'll hurt more than it helps if they do what they're about to do.

Most of you don't get it, you can't because you don't look at trouble shooting processes and going after the cause rather than the effect that the press tells you is the target.

As for L2 crowing he said that bill would pass, sorry bub but this is a different run this time.....do you not understand the bs you are typing about at times?

see: public option

...do you not understand the bs you are typing about at times?

Like Malse pointed out a few posts prior, I'm pretty sure a lot of people see the exact same scenario here in reverse.

See the thing is, they should fix the unregulated costs and malpractice before they play for the polls. It'll hurt more than it helps if they do what they're about to do.

Most of you don't get it, you can't because you don't look at trouble shooting processes and going after the cause rather than the effect that the press tells you is the target.

Oh don't pull that special knowledge shtick, I do process work every day where the consequences aren't higher bills, but dead linemen and federal fines. You're right, the current system is absolutely broken, but there is a few hundred billion dollars in barrier to straight up replacing it with a single payer system. So we're getting a compromise.

As long as we have some bizarre ideological need to have private insurers, and they keep buying off congressmen to avoid cost controls, an effective public system with mandatory membership is about the only remaining means of competing with the kleptocratic oligopoly.

Because atm I'm between working and medicare ( about 4 to 5 months off ) due to a fall off of a F16 and spinal injury. Right now I don't have medical insurance and my cash flow is cut considerably. I can't work at my 70k plus job, a job that would've had me higher once I got a few promotions. That's over now, as is my insurance.

So before you speak up, get a few facts dammit....for once, and not from Huffington post or other fucking spoon fed feeds. Those of us without insurance are going to be forced to buy expensive insurance.

Because you dumb fucks wanted this bandaide fix before they actually worked on the issues why insurance is so costly. Because so many left wingers think throwing money and making laws is the way to go instead of getting at the cause. Because ya'll want to work on effects and the public flash in the fucking pan instead of the reality of it. Because too fucking many of you left wing jackasses think the govt knows how to help you instead of figuring out that you shouldn't try to fucking rule from the polls..


Jesus some of you should know better, but hey enjoy your fucking worthless win. it's going to crush some of us...

I sure hope this vitriol was not aimed at me for simply asking how this health care reform (which has not even been refined to it's final version yet) was going to bankrupt you.

See the thing is, they should fix the unregulated costs and malpractice before they play for the polls. It'll hurt more than it helps if they do what they're about to do.

Most of you don't get it, you can't because you don't look at trouble shooting processes and going after the cause rather than the effect that the press tells you is the target.

As for L2 crowing he said that bill would pass, sorry bub but this is a different run this time.....do you not understand the bs you are typing about at times?

What the fuck are you even talking about?

"Blah blah THE PRESS blah blah Arrgghh"

You have no idea what you're even saying 50% of the time. You string together some cliches with something that passes for down homey folk wisdom and you think you said something. You havent; its the internet posting version of a twinkie.

Im still waiting to hear how a bill that wont go into effect for a year AT LEAST is going to bankrupt you in the next 4 months. I'm sorry you fell on hard times, but the fact is that the irony of you, so transparently misinformed, accuse others of being ignorant is throughly laughable. You have no idea what you are supposed to even be mad about, so you flail about wildly.

The facts are.. as they have always been... as I have laid them out. That is reality. Im sorry if reality is a difficult thing for you to come to terms with.. but it is what it is.

I hope you get better and your luck changes.

Right now I don't have medical insurance and my cash flow is cut considerably. I can't work at my 70k plus job, a job that would've had me higher once I got a few promotions. That's over now, as is my insurance.


First off this is meant as an honest question. is not what just happened to you as great an example of why this system is so frakked up and in need of reform as you can get? the moment you can no longer work you get dropped like a hot potatoe? the day they can no longer jack the premium straight off the payroll ledger it so sorry bud try medicare or L&I? without reform! do you really think the current system will cover your needs going henceforth or will you find yourself in that dreaded "pre-exsisting" zone? or will they just point the finger at you and laugh while telling you "guess you should have had AFLAC!"?

Because you dumb fucks wanted this bandaide fix before they actually worked on the issues why insurance is so costly. Because so many left wingers think throwing money and making laws is the way to go instead of getting at the cause. Because ya'll want to work on effects and the public flash in the fucking pan instead of the reality of it. Because too fucking many of you left wing jackasses think the govt knows how to help you instead of figuring out that you shouldn't try to fucking rule from the polls..

:o

fandros' solution to lower costs? Magic.

fandros' solution to lower costs? Magic.


Health Care Reform: The Gathering? hmmmm......

1 blue and 3 colorless?

I tap max baucus and 3 greenbacks to neutralize your next turn, also discard your hand!

Christ, what a cluster fuck of public sucking tit silly fucks...

Ya'll still don't see, fix/force the insurance companies to give up their damn near mafia like mandates..

Stfu Wiggo...you are a troll....honsetly you've never done more as a country than to suck at a tit to protect you...

Well since Fandros came back, I have to admidt the White House's trigger option is the best compromise I've seen. I want the public option (health care minus profit equals public option) but since Republicans won't go for it (not helping big business over the little guy, for shame!) a line in the sand is the second best chance we have at decent health care with decent rates. Ultimately what they were pushing for today was a limit that if the health care industry couldn't contain costs at a certain point the public option would be created. If they keep costs in check, no government arm of health care provision. Clever middle ground.

Oh come on Kelraz, it's a meaningless 'middle ground' and you know it - that trigger will never get pulled; instead, it'll be used to mollify Congress into passing a substandard and flawed bill *with* a mandate, and then and it'll quietly get removed when no-one's looking, just like what happened with Medicare D. In that deal, we gave away the right to negotiate prices with the Big Pharma under the promise that they 'control costs' (and yes, there was a 'trigger' fail-safe in that agreement which was then quietly knifed).

Baucus and Snowe have both been pushing for triggers since Day 1, because they can sell it to their corporate overlords as meaningless, and to their constituencies as doing something while 'giving the insurance companies/Big Pharma the benefit of the doubt'. I'm actually disgusted that Rahm is trying to sell this (and I have no doubt that that's whom it's coming from) and sell Obama's constituents and over 70% of the population out when the Democrats have control of *both* houses of Congress, sixty votes in the Senate and the White House.

I haven't yet seen your contention that the White House *proposed* triggers on the news today (but going to go look now), but if the White House did in fact propose a 'trigger' for the public option today, Obama might as well start sewing NASCAR-style sponsorship patches on his suit, because he's done been bought.

Regards,
Nydia

Update on the White House's comments on that dubious report in Talking Points Memo today concerning the 'unnamed sources' claiming that the Obama administration was pushing Congress to accept the Snowe trigger:
http://politics.theatlantic.com/2009/10/white_house_denies_report_that_it_wants_to_weaken_ public_plan.php

Well Nydia, I'm afraid your counting abilities don't match up with the rest of the countries since the Democrats don't have 60 votes in the Senate yet - with or without the public option under discussion.

Dear Kelraz:

Your little smear completely misses the point and in no way negates the fact that the 'trigger' option is de facto no option at all, nor does it negate that that the Senate is currently *very* close to getting a filibuster-proof majority (and if they don't, the House can take them to cloture and it'll be hashed out there).

Personally, I don't think Snowe has the big brass ones to go so brazenly against her own constituents (and her previous vote in committee) and lead a filibuster against a bill containing the public option, with or without the opt-out, and that this is cheesy strongarm tactics with the expectation that the Democrats will cave (in the recent past, a pretty safe bet). Given that there is a great deal of a great deal of public-fueled momentum on this issue (enough that Pelosi is putting up a real, as opposed to a token, fight up in the House, not to mention Sen. Franken's utter dismantling of a health care executive on the floor of the Senate yesterday) I personally think she'll fold if push comes to shove and that the Democrats would be fools to settle for a trigger which is simply an insult to intelligence - they know damned well who will take the blame if the reform effort goes bad and it won't be the Republicans, who will be singing 'I told you so'.

I believe I paid for an argument? ;)

Regards,
Nydia

Christ, what a cluster fuck of public sucking tit silly fucks...



How about you start laying off the Oxycontin? All bullshit aside, you sound pretty much incoherent.

Christ, what a cluster fuck of public sucking tit silly fucks...

Ya'll still don't see, fix/force the insurance companies to give up their damn near mafia like mandates..

Stfu Wiggo...you are a troll....honsetly you've never done more as a country than to suck at a tit to protect you...

off your medication again, eh? also, id like to clarify something. i am not, nor have i ever been, a country.

off your medication again, eh? Also, id like to clarify something. I am not, nor have i ever been, a country.

lol