The whole thing about him tring to parley the Senate seat into $$$ for him is hillarious and upseting at the same time ....

What do you guys think about it?

http://ayonae.com/bank-of-america-protest-t11725.html

last few pages we derailed to discuss this very subject.

There has to be some sort of outside factor to either push folks of this "type" to accept the role of Gov of Illinois lately.

This one, presumed innocent atm despite the case being built along with the gent he replaced are both somewhat shady.

Previous gov is in a Fed prison at the age of err 78 or so for corruption charges.

Most of our government is at least this corrupt. Just look at their lifestyles, compared to their previous level of wealth and paltry government salaries. They're flaunting it right in our faces.

As soon as one of these guys stops playing ball and actually tries to work for us, like Blagojevich or Spitzer, they're thrown to the dogs. Is it right what they've done? No. Are they any different than their peers? Most likely not.

Most of our government is at least this corrupt. Just look at their lifestyles, compared to their previous level of wealth and paltry government salaries. They're flaunting it right in our faces.

As soon as one of these guys stops playing ball and actually tries to work for us, like Blagojevich or Spitzer, they're thrown to the dogs. Is it right what they've done? No. Are they any different than their peers? Most likely not.

I agree wholeheartedly with this. I think it's a good summation of what is probably happening here.

Most of our government is at least this corrupt. Just look at their lifestyles, compared to their previous level of wealth and paltry government salaries. They're flaunting it right in our faces.

As soon as one of these guys stops playing ball and actually tries to work for us, like Blagojevich or Spitzer, they're thrown to the dogs. Is it right what they've done? No. Are they any different than their peers? Most likely not.

I'm with you on this!

And to think, it comes out yesterday that the Dept of Defense, the Marine Corp brass and others knew full well what we were heading into in Iraq and they purposefully denied the troops proper equipment definitely costing lives.

Where are the flag waivers on this, the supposed troop supporters? Where is your outrage?

I know, we are outraged by a politician acting like...uh...politician, funny he gets whacked the day after he told one of the largest banks to go fuck themselves. What an unpatriotic guy.

And to think, it comes out yesterday that the Dept of Defense, the Marine Corp brass and others knew full well what we were heading into in Iraq and they purposefully denied the troops proper equipment definitely costing lives.

Where are the flag waivers on this, the supposed troop supporters? Where is your outrage?

I know, we are outraged by a politician acting like...uh...politician, funny he gets whacked the day after he told one of the largest banks to go fuck themselves. What an unpatriotic guy.

What fun you are, forest/trees bub?

I'm outraged about the gear for the troops, as have been every American since our country began when they went to war. This is not a new problem as a kit is rarely up to what we are forced to do once on the field. Do a little reading, it's been a constant bitch since WW1 that I know of.

I agree, the politicians are all basically base criminals anymore. Perhaps with the exception of those who ran good business models and had their own wealth? Until we make them play their cards on the tables (every vote accounted for, all transactions with lobbyists witnessed and no riders and their backroom deals) we're not going to change a thing. It's been this way for a very very very very long time.

For a lil history reference to a soldiers kit not being up to the task at hand look to what lead to the invention of the M16.

I do believe it was the issues of using the M1/M4 during Vietnam that pushed the M16 to the forefront right?

One of the problems our military, any military for that matter, has been to be ready and kitted for the war they need to fight at that moment. Usually they're kitted for the war they last fought.

It's something Bush brayed about early, wanting us to become more responsive to any threat and ready to fight them.

For a lil history reference to a soldiers kit not being up to the task at hand look to what lead to the invention of the M16.

I do believe it was the issues of using the M1/M4 during Vietnam that pushed the M16 to the forefront right?

One of the problems our military, any military for that matter, has been to be ready and kitted for the war they need to fight at that moment. Usually they're kitted for the war they last fought.

It's something Bush brayed about early, wanting us to become more responsive to any threat and ready to fight them.


First of all stop being paranoid, I wasn't referring to you I was referring to the republican chicken hawks. As far as the M-16 goes it replaced the M-14. The M-14 was and still is a very hard hitting and durable rifle its downfalls are the huge amount of recoil and the 7.62 round being that an average soldier has issues with ammunition carrying. The M-16 is a very accurate rifle with little recoil and most, not all, issues were corrected with the A-1 version..that always worked fine for me. The 16 is also a .22 caliber round and the 14 is a .30 cal round so it hits a bit harder...most don't get up from a hit. If you've ever fired a 14 on full auto it can be quite a wrestling match with the muzzle travel. I assure you more people died to the lack of properly armored ehicles than did from M-16s jamming...most guys in Vietnam just simply went back to the M-14 in the field.


As far as the bold in your quote...except in the case of the Germans in WWII and the Japanese...oh...and pretty much every country that goes on an offensive...that excuse is lame and pure bullshit....wave that flag!

Horse shit, it's nothing to do with flag waving you self loathing poorman's Flynt.

It's a fact of warfare , one contractors love I'll agree, not being ready to commit to the war at hand is one that's always a problem. Pre WW1 I'd agree as you generally knew who you were going to fight and how.

Oh wait...Revolutionary War, that one required more a change of battle tactics than it did gear tho. If I recall there were a number of battlefield innovations during that war as well, been awhile since I looked at that.

Horse shit, it's nothing to do with flag waving you self loathing poorman's Flynt.

It's a fact of warfare , one contractors love I'll agree, not being ready to commit to the war at hand is one that's always a problem. Pre WW1 I'd agree as you generally knew who you were going to fight and how.

Oh wait...Revolutionary War, that one required more a change of battle tactics than it did gear tho. If I recall there were a number of battlefield innovations during that war as well, been awhile since I looked at that.


LOL..all you do is wave the flag...you're good at it...tow the line...tow the line. You know nothing, you prove it daily.

Listen you fucking moron, because this has happened before with gear makes it all the worse. We knew who we were going to fight, we knew their tactics. That's what this is about, the people in charge knew and they DID NOTHING to mitigate the damage, that is what makes it all the more wrong.

But hey, it's ok because the first M-16's sucked this is ok...keep on waving it asshole.

/chuckle there it goes again...ticktickticktick

I was merely giving ONE example you piece of inbred tom foolery.

Yes we should have been better equipped for this war. Got one very pertinent piece of info for you ya ignorant piece of shit.

THE DEFENSE BUDGET WAS Raped DURING THE 90's!!!!! RAPED!!

I know, you hate to hear it and yes a Republican house was part of it but the man who's sack you like to hang off of (hail back to yuego!!) signed the damn bill.

It's both parties "yee old Dog who loves to bark at night about how much he hates himself and his country", both parties led to us not being ready.

Keep on keeping on, you were wrong on this Illinois Gov thing and you're barking to try and show what a tool you showed yourself to be.

Btw, Obama's camp is calling for the beleagured Illinois Gov to resign.

Yup, it's all Bush and his crew.....what a maroon ...to quote Bugs.

Oh wait...Revolutionary War, that one required more a change of battle tactics than it did gear tho. If I recall there were a number of battlefield innovations during that war as well, been awhile since I looked at that.


Yeah, not standing in lines, and using trees, rocks, and hollows for cover and concealment were among some of the best innovations the Revolutionaries brought to the field of battle. I seem to recall reading about British commanders' frustrations at having to fight an enemy that would reduce themselves to such "barbaric tactics"....

Actually "skirmishers" were part and parcel of most revolutionary era armies, including the British. Most battles were fought in the traditional way by both sides though (one reason the Continentals usually lost every set piece battle). What annoyed the British most was that officers in particular were targeted by American sharpshooters. How unsporting!

But back to current affairs. When a politico is this blatantly mercenary, he deserves to be thrown to the dogs. The fact that he is not unique is not a mitigating factor but rather a problem we badly need to correct.

Yeah, not standing in lines, and using trees, rocks, and hollows for cover and concealment were among some of the best innovations the Revolutionaries brought to the field of battle. I seem to recall reading about British commanders' frustrations at having to fight an enemy that would reduce themselves to such "barbaric tactics"....

Good take Sixee...but I think you should do some research on tactics before you post.

/chuckle there it goes again...ticktickticktick

I was merely giving ONE example you piece of inbred tom foolery.

Yes we should have been better equipped for this war. Got one very pertinent piece of info for you ya ignorant piece of shit.

THE DEFENSE BUDGET WAS Raped DURING THE 90's!!!!! RAPED!!

I know, you hate to hear it and yes a Republican house was part of it but the man who's sack you like to hang off of (hail back to yuego!!) signed the damn bill.

It's both parties "yee old Dog who loves to bark at night about how much he hates himself and his country", both parties led to us not being ready.

Keep on keeping on, you were wrong on this Illinois Gov thing and you're barking to try and show what a tool you showed yourself to be.

Btw, Obama's camp is calling for the beleagured Illinois Gov to resign.

Yup, it's all Bush and his crew.....what a maroon ...to quote Bugs.


You're a flag waiver, that's all you'll ever be living in your fox news fantasy world. Guess what retard...we invaded Iraq in 2003 long after Clinton was president over a republican congress that voted to cut budgets on military equipment.

You have no idea of what is wrong or right, you just repeat a constant Hannity like drone.

Yeah, not standing in lines, and using trees, rocks, and hollows for cover and concealment were among some of the best innovations the Revolutionaries brought to the field of battle. I seem to recall reading about British commanders' frustrations at having to fight an enemy that would reduce themselves to such "barbaric tactics"....

Those tactics had been used for thousands of years. They were reapplied against an army used to fighting other large European forces in open fields in agreed rules battles. The continentals were used to fighting people in frontiers, most of those tactics derived from the earlier experience in the prior multi-party war in the colonies that is usually referred to as the French and Indian War in the states.

You probably also don't recall that the decisive battle of the war was also won by the French navy.

You're a flag waiver, that's all you'll ever be living in your fox news fantasy world. Guess what retard...we invaded Iraq in 2003 long after Clinton was president over a republican congress that voted to cut budgets on military equipment.

You have no idea of what is wrong or right, you just repeat a constant Hannity like drone.

Actually child we went into Iraq in the 90's saw what we had to contend with and during the 90's decided to cut our budget instead of reshape a military that was still designed to fight a way long ago.

You're a tool, you make a really bad case for anyone thinking that being a Democrat is a good thing. I can read peoples opinions that differ from mine and learn from them. You I read and wonder how skilled you are to type with that head shoved so far up your own ass.

You've lost any purpose here, even with your party in charge and winning you still whine and moan like a beaten dog.

Sad sack piece of shit that you are you can't even admit that the Illinios gov is in trouble because he's been dirty for years.

Instead you bawl and whine that it's the man out to get him. Are you serious?

I pity you...I really do.

p.s. I've never watched or listened to Hannity...

Twice wrong Rover, never right ever squatting in his own ignorance.

I'm regretably gonna end up siding with Fandros on this one. I think as the facts continue to come out (his wife tipped them off, 3 years of audio recordings and wire taps, etc) its impossible for this to be a conspiracy fronted by Bank of America ... especially since Illinois is still not going to do business with the bank even if he gets impeached. Too many judges, agents, and support personel were working this case for a long time, and I can't help but think him getting nailed with the charges when he did was nothing more than coincidence (mind you the workers at the plant in question just got a loan yesterday as well).

I'm sure most are corrupt to some degree, and it shouldn't be acceptable in any case. Its not fair to you and me to overlook one case of corruption with a passing comment that his colleagues are corrupt too.

Actually child we went into Iraq in the 90's saw what we had to contend with and during the 90's decided to cut our budget instead of reshape a military that was still designed to fight a way long ago.

You're a tool, you make a really bad case for anyone thinking that being a Democrat is a good thing. I can read peoples opinions that differ from mine and learn from them. You I read and wonder how skilled you are to type with that head shoved so far up your own ass.

You've lost any purpose here, even with your party in charge and winning you still whine and moan like a beaten dog.

Sad sack piece of shit that you are you can't even admit that the Illinios gov is in trouble because he's been dirty for years.

Instead you bawl and whine that it's the man out to get him. Are you serious?

I pity you...I really do.

p.s. I've never watched or listened to Hannity...

Twice wrong Rover, never right ever squatting in his own ignorance.

Once again your posts show that you just might be able to get a trademark on "Moron".

I'm sure most are corrupt to some degree, and it shouldn't be acceptable in any case. Its not fair to you and me to overlook one case of corruption with a passing comment that his colleagues are corrupt too.

No one's suggesting that he should get away with corruption just because others do it too. That's no reason to be blind to the forest though.

First we had Halo and San now we get Rov vs Fan....:)

First we had Halo and San now we get Rov vs Fan....:)


Hey, don't forget me vs. jedd. :D

Seriously tho', to continue with one of the derails, one of the reasons that was used to push the implementation of the M-16 before it was ready was that the Russian weaponry used by the North Vietnamese (the AK-47 and SKS rifle) could utilize our 7.62 rounds, and our troops were constantly being cut down by ammunition captured when fire bases were over run or taken from bodies after ambushes.

The M-16, once they corrected the problems with the bolt action, turned out to be an effective weapon, with the smaller 5.56 round. One of the side affects (I hate to call it a bonus) of the 5.56 round is that due to it's lighter weight when it hits bone it has a habit of starting a tumbling action, which means it can really tear up the innards of someone it encounters.

This was typical of military weaponry, as far as the effectiveness goes. The M-60 machine gun which also uses the 7.62 round was an extremely effective light machine gun, both on the ground and mounted on our helicopters.

On a side note, the Army issue .45 auto was a great weapon with huge stopping power at close quarters, and you could drop it in the mud and it would still fire. But it was terrible for accuracy. Swap in some brass bushings, and voila! Accurate as heck, but had to be kept clean, so don't wade through mud paddies.

Military weaponry will never be perfect, and I think we should all be a little bit thankful for that, if you look at the big picture.

I wish we would go back to the .45 instead of the M9 9mm. It's such a piece of shit, I'd feel better heaving rocks at the enemy than trying to kill one of them with it.

Hey, don't forget me vs. jedd. :D

Seriously tho', to continue with one of the derails, one of the reasons that was used to push the implementation of the M-16 before it was ready was that the Russian weaponry used by the North Vietnamese (the AK-47 and SKS rifle) could utilize our 7.62 rounds, and our troops were constantly being cut down by ammunition captured when fire bases were over run or taken from bodies after ambushes.

The M-16, once they corrected the problems with the bolt action, turned out to be an effective weapon, with the smaller 5.56 round. One of the side affects (I hate to call it a bonus) of the 5.56 round is that due to it's lighter weight when it hits bone it has a habit of starting a tumbling action, which means it can really tear up the innards of someone it encounters.

This was typical of military weaponry, as far as the effectiveness goes. The M-60 machine gun which also uses the 7.62 round was an extremely effective light machine gun, both on the ground and mounted on our helicopters.

On a side note, the Army issue .45 auto was a great weapon with huge stopping power at close quarters, and you could drop it in the mud and it would still fire. But it was terrible for accuracy. Swap in some brass bushings, and voila! Accurate as heck, but had to be kept clean, so don't wade through mud paddies.

Military weaponry will never be perfect, and I think we should all be a little bit thankful for that, if you look at the big picture.

That is incorrect, the Russian 7.62 will is not compatible with NATO 7.62

I wish we would go back to the .45 instead of the M9 9mm. It's such a piece of shit, I'd feel better heaving rocks at the enemy than trying to kill one of them with it.

The .45 is great, hits like a train.

That is incorrect, the Russian 7.62 will is not compatible with NATO 7.62

You need to do some more research, Rover.

The US 7.62 round was used by the VC and North Vietnamese in their weapons whenever they could get their hands on some; at no point in my previous post did I say that their round would work in an M-14.

Go back to redefining Fannie's posts and don't start trying to change what I say in mine. :p

You need to do some more research, Rover.

The US 7.62 round was used by the VC and North Vietnamese in their weapons whenever they could get their hands on some; at no point in my previous post did I say that their round would work in an M-14.

Go back to redefining Fannie's posts and don't start trying to change what I say in mine. :p


The NATO 7.62 round is a 7.62x51 round the Russian 7.62 used in the AK - SKS is 7.62x39 it's shorter than the NATO round. I assure you an AK or SKS will not chamber the NATO round...I own both.

The NATO 7.62 round is a 7.62x51 round the Russian 7.62 used in the AK - SKS is 7.62x39 it's shorter than the NATO round. I assure you an AK or SKS will not chamber the NATO round...I own both.

Strange then how they were demonstrating that to us in basic training.
I guess they must have retooled the weapons so they could lie to us.

LOL..be real. The Chamber for the AK is shorter than the chamber for the M14, or M60. You can't even close the bolt on an AK with a NATO round. The NATO round would have a catastrophic effect in an AK

The M16 was first issued to the Air Force and then the Army and Marines. The M16 was a pet project of McNamara and the weapon was in most units by late 1965. The reason the original M16's had jamming issues was because they lacked chrome lined chambers and barrels. This was corrected on the M16-A1 which came out in 1967 and was used pretty much through 1985.

For your info:

http://www.vanreedimages.com/ayon/compare-size-762.jpg

See, the projectile on the russian round barely clears the brass on the NATO round.

I know the M16 they have us shoot on the range is adapted to shoot a .22 round.

Not sure how adaptable the chamber is.

I know the M16 they have us shoot on the range is adapted to shoot a .22 round.

Not sure how adaptable the chamber is.

You can buy a kit to do that, basically you replace the upper receiver.

I will bow to rover's immense wealth of knowledge, and assume the demonstrations that were given during our weapons training was an illusion created to warp our sensibilities. Not sure why they were giving us that information since they could have just checked with rover.

After all, it must have been rover that was there and not me.

/shrug

It is not worth wasting the time anyway, rover has stopped being fun to go back and forth with these days.

You know what, I do have an immense wealth of knowledge on military weapons, it was my job to have that knowledge. Byl, I'm guessing that you perhaps are recalling it incorrectly.

The 7.62 NATO projectile is also not compatible in the bore of the AK47 on top of being 12mm longer than the chamber of the AK. It would cause a catastrophic failure of the rifle if you were to fire it. Look dude, I possess all of the rifles in question, it will not and cannot work.

Without specific information on the demonstration who's to say; It is possible for someone with reasonably common tools to reshape the 7.62NATOs to fit a 39mm casing and drop the propellant loading and thus repurpose captured ammunition without the ability to manufacture their own.

Whether or not that makes practical sense ...

Without specific information on the demonstration who's to say; It is possible for someone with reasonably common tools to reshape the 7.62NATOs to fit a 39mm casing and drop the propellant loading and thus repurpose captured ammunition without the ability to manufacture their own.

Whether or not that makes practical sense ...


That's one helluva lot of work just to shoot one round in a wet bug infested jungle, plus the projectiles are not compatible. The NVA and Viet Cong had an excellent logistics supply line, like a constant stream of ants packed full of goodies.

NATO 7.62x51 is basically a .308 isn't it..? IIRC I had some Isreali x51 that I was shooting through my Saiga .308 (AK with a .308 reciever/barrel). That was a long time ago and I may have that totally ass backawards on the NATO crap.

NATO 7.62x51 is basically a .308 isn't it..? IIRC I had some Isreali x51 that I was shooting through my Saiga .308 (AK with a .308 reciever/barrel). That was a long time ago and I may have that totally ass backawards on the NATO crap.


it is basically a .308 with a very slight difference.

Yes I thought as much... Saiga Kalashnikov's are VERY forgiving.

So it is appearing more and more that this guy was arrested for doing what politicians have always done. If you notice the media keeps reporting how he was under investigation for 3 years. I find it interesting that after 3 years the only thing they have is this guy saying that the senate seat was not for free.

This whole thing stinks, I think that this is a case of a guy who took on big business and they went after him.

He hasn't even been formally charged, yet they are talking impeachment and the Illinois AG is even trying to get the courts to say he is incapable of holding the office. All this because he said the seat isn't free?

So it is appearing more and more that this guy was arrested for doing what politicians have always done. If you notice the media keeps reporting how he was under investigation for 3 years. I find it interesting that after 3 years the only thing they have is this guy saying that the senate seat was not for free.

This whole thing stinks, I think that this is a case of a guy who took on big business and they went after him.

He hasn't even been formally charged, yet they are talking impeachment and the Illinois AG is even trying to get the courts to say he is incapable of holding the office. All this because he said the seat isn't free?

You apparently are not actually following the entire story. There are a host of corruption accussations being thrown about concerning this gent.

Try to read more than the bylines man, you are not making your case by sticking to the hotline topic on this one.

Personally I think they should go after them one by one and change the perception that will allow this shit.

I'd rather see something done, to both parties than apparently your viewpoint which is...hey he's one of mine and oh my they all do it so it's obviously a plot to get one of mine.

C'mon.

You apparently are not actually following the entire story. There are a host of corruption accussations being thrown about concerning this gent.

Try to read more than the bylines man, you are not making your case by sticking to the hotline topic on this one.

Personally I think they should go after them one by one and change the perception that will allow this shit.

I'd rather see something done, to both parties than apparently your viewpoint which is...hey he's one of mine and oh my they all do it so it's obviously a plot to get one of mine.

C'mon.


Really, what are they.

The complaint charges that Blagojevich tried to use state taxing leverage over Tribune Co. (http://www.chicagotribune.com/topic/economy-business-finance/media/tribune-co.-ORCRP017346.topic) in its attempted sale of Wrigley Field (http://www.chicagotribune.com/topic/sports/baseball/wrigley-field-PLTRA0000169.topic) to try to get the Chicago Tribune to change the makeup of what he sees as an overly critical editorial board. "Fire all those [expletive] people, get 'em the [expletive] out of there and get us some editorial support," he allegedly said.


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/obama/chi-blagojevich-1210,0,7494354.story

There's a host of info in there for you Rover. TONS of illicit activies far beyond the hype point you keep jumping up and down on.

I don't know if he's guilty or not, but it's certainly not merely a case of him selling a seat in the Senate.

The complaint charges that Blagojevich tried to use state taxing leverage over Tribune Co. (http://www.chicagotribune.com/topic/economy-business-finance/media/tribune-co.-ORCRP017346.topic) in its attempted sale of Wrigley Field (http://www.chicagotribune.com/topic/sports/baseball/wrigley-field-PLTRA0000169.topic) to try to get the Chicago Tribune to change the makeup of what he sees as an overly critical editorial board. "Fire all those [expletive] people, get 'em the [expletive] out of there and get us some editorial support," he allegedly said.


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/obama/chi-blagojevich-1210,0,7494354.story

There's a host of info in there for you Rover. TONS of illicit activies far beyond the hype point you keep jumping up and down on.

I don't know if he's guilty or not, but it's certainly not merely a case of him selling a seat in the Senate.

Thanks for the info. I see the light...he is a normal politician...Just to stir the pot I posted this; ..I'm all for those patriotic banks now. I can not believe how the citizens of this country took advantage of the generous banks and I am so ashamed that those workers at that plant in Illinois would illegally trespass and extort money from that company and bank of America.

But in reality I know that somewhere in your body resides a heart.

What?

Good lord you are such a irritant anymore. Attempting to redefine what I write to fit your narrow ability to form rational thought.

I give two fucks where the Illinois Gov stood with regards to the Bank of America issue.

He's looking more and more filthy as hell.

Shows me what a party whore you've turned into. The Democrats can do no wrong and go to hell Fandros , or others like you, who say justice should be for all, not just those I dislike.

Long as it's my Democrats fuck off, we're the party of the people!!!

C'mon now, you can't continue to try and force others opinions into your narrow black and white world.

hint hint bub, it's grey!

Wow, Rover is the ME of the right... Let me be the first to say.. Wow, just....wow.

It does seem that Fitzgerald jumped the gun on this one though.

There was no actual transaction.... yet.

If he waited a couple days he probably could have gotten the transaction AND another democrat. Something happened and in my personal opinion, Fitzgerald did someone a favor and arrested Blago early. All he has on Blago is conspiracy charges. Thats good.... but not enough to get the guy jail time. Only enough to get him out of office.

Wow, Rover is the ME of the right... Let me be the first to say.. Wow, just....wow.

See, that's where you're wrong Osg. I'm not right or left or center, I'm human. When you see democrat next to my name that is only what I am registered as, it does not mean I vote that way everytime. My problem with the republican party stems from their trashing of the American worker, their convenient blame for everything that remotely helps the citizens of this country. There are few democrats as well as republicans that I would actually vote for.

I've stated many times that I find it incredible that people actually think that republicans are pro-military. They are not. They are pro-MIC and other than gimicks, slogans and flag waving they are one of the most detrimental groups of people to our troops, almost to the point of actionable civil and possibly criminal conduct.

I am die-hard 2nd amendment like many on the right but unlike the right I am also die hard 1st and 4th amendment, I believe that the latter two are the core of American values.

I know first hand that there are so many tax loopholes for business that if ANY business US based complains they are just plain full of shit. I see no issues with paying taxes, I like good roads, I like national parks, I like my services and I am sure that the first ones to bitch when those things aren't provided are those at the top.

I feel that there in no way shape or form should religion play ANY part in our government.

more later..I need to cook dinner.

See, that's where you're wrong Osg. I'm not right or left or center, I'm human. When you see democrat next to my name that is only what I am registered as, it does not mean I vote that way everytime. My problem with the republican party stems from their trashing of the American worker, their convenient blame for everything that remotely helps the citizens of this country. There are few democrats as well as republicans that I would actually vote for.

I've stated many times that I find it incredible that people actually think that republicans are pro-military. They are not. They are pro-MIC and other than gimicks, slogans and flag waving they are one of the most detrimental groups of people to our troops, almost to the point of actionable civil and possibly criminal conduct.

I am die-hard 2nd amendment like many on the right but unlike the right I am also die hard 1st and 4th amendment, I believe that the latter two are the core of American values.

I know first hand that there are so many tax loopholes for business that if ANY business US based complains they are just plain full of shit. I see no issues with paying taxes, I like good roads, I like national parks, I like my services and I am sure that the first ones to bitch when those things aren't provided are those at the top.

I feel that there in no way shape or form should religion play ANY part in our government.

more later..I need to cook dinner.

When you be com'n ovah for some chitlins my brothah? Sheeet Aigh yea yea yo 'n shit. You be family now Rover.

When you be com'n ovah for some chitlins my brothah? Sheeet Aigh yea yea yo 'n shit. You be family now Rover.

HaHa...I make a mean barbecue pork with collard greens and baked beans.

I's bet you do... Momma gon be soo proud her little Rover don good up in dis world!

I's bet you do... Momma gon be soo proud her little Rover don good up in dis world!

That's pretty cool. What language are you typing in?

oh shoot Rovah.. you' done have to pretends no mo! No need pretend'n you's been one of the comfy house boy's. You come on out and cook up dat pork now.

It does seem that Fitzgerald jumped the gun on this one though.

There was no actual transaction.... yet.

If he waited a couple days he probably could have gotten the transaction AND another democrat. Something happened and in my personal opinion, Fitzgerald did someone a favor and arrested Blago early. All he has on Blago is conspiracy charges. Thats good.... but not enough to get the guy jail time. Only enough to get him out of office.

Doing someone a favor thing makes sense to me L2. They had all they needed on the guy before the Senate seat debacle imho.

He still did Obama a favor directly or indirectly, someone in his campaign was going to make a deal.

He still did Obama a favor directly or indirectly, someone in his campaign was going to make a deal.


OMG...are you saying that deals are made in politics? To make things simple, watch Charlie Wilsons War, it gives good insight into political deal making.

Actually, no Beelz.

Blagojevich was caught on released wiretap complaining that all Obama offered in return for consideration of his choice candidate was "Gratitude"

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hZUphl2cSNJ27PPABTpDzQBBYI6A


A deal was offered and refused.

You guys are so focused on Obama that you can't see the real political play here.