We've all seen various rumors about which format is going to win, but this might be the nail in coffin for HD_DVD:

Wal-Mart isn't goinng to carry them anymore. (http://consumerist.com/357170/walmart-thanks-for-buying-all-those-hd-dvd-players-were-switching-to-blu+ray)

Also, it looks like Toshiba is going to stop making them.

This whole high-def format battle has been the most inconveniencing thing ever. Now stupid Sony is probably going to screw everyone over with their proprietary expensive format. Blu-ray is such a dumb name for a widespread format as well. Double DRM, anyone?

I thought HD-DVD would pull it out, a year ago, but it looks like they've definitely been dealt a series of killing blows in the past month. I wouldn't buy one today.

I think their only hope is the fact that the players are so cheap now (due to predicted obsolescence) and a few major distributors still back them. If a ton of oblivious consumers picked up the remaining ones due to price, it could bring HD-DVD back.

I worked on some behind the scenes DVD stuff for Fox for Die Hard and the producer said his budget kept getting slashed because Wal-Mart sells over 75% of the DVDs in this country and they kept wanting to keep prices down. If Wal-Mart isn't gonna sell it, and you lose 75% of your potential audience, thats bad juju.

Kel's right. If Walmart stops selling HD-DVD, it's dead as a betamax.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/02/19/technology/toshiba.ap/index.htm?postversion=2008021904

Well I think this settles it...

All Hollywood Studios Now Backing Blu-Ray (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2266850,00.asp)

The real fight now, of course, is DVD vs Blu-Ray--particularly for those that don't have a 1080 line TV yet. For anyone with a 720 line TV and even a modest DVD library, the most sensible thing to consider is an upconverting DVD player, at a tiny fraction of the cost of a Blu-Ray player (PS3, presumably) plus repurchased Blu-Ray discs.

I just bought a Blu-Ray recorder for my business, and the picture is spectacular - but its still a huge fucking waste of money. I'm sure purchasing downloads of HD movies (like music and Itunes) can't be that far around the corner.

Ok stupid ass question inc!

We have been thinking about buying a HD-TV and a new player. Couldnt decide on HD-DVD or Blue-Ray. So based on what I am reading here I sould:

1. Get a HDTV with 1080 lines ( i assume this is resolution)
2. Foreget the HD-DVD and buy a Blue-Ray.

We have a fairly large DVD collection about 400+ will these play in the Blue-Ray player? Or am I going to have to replace them all with Blue-Rays?

Thanks Wick

1. You want an HDTV that can output "1080p" resolution.

2. Yes unfortunately Blu-Ray will be the standard so you will want a Blu-Ray player. Yes, most newer Blu-Ray players can play regular DVDs.

Ok stupid ass question inc!

We have been thinking about buying a HD-TV and a new player. Couldnt decide on HD-DVD or Blue-Ray. So based on what I am reading here I sould:

1. Get a HDTV with 1080 lines ( i assume this is resolution)
2. Foreget the HD-DVD and buy a Blue-Ray.

We have a fairly large DVD collection about 400+ will these play in the Blue-Ray player? Or am I going to have to replace them all with Blue-Rays?

Thanks Wick

1080 is 1080 pixels high, 1920 pixels wide. This gives a 16x9 resolution or "widescreen" and is the best currently available in broadcast today*. One question you have to answer is if you'll get 1080i or 1080p. In 1080i the i stands for interlaced. Basically this means the odd lines (1,3,5,7) refresh then the even (2,4,6,8) and it goes back and forth like that. p stands for Progressive where all lines refresh at the same time. So they make you think the progressive tv is better, and it is, but its not really worth it in my opinion. For starters, no one shoots anything in 1080p. High def broadcasts are either 1080i or 720p (or 480p for standard definition). Yes, video games like the PS3 as well as Blu-ray players are 1080p ... but you can barely tell the difference anyway.

Like I also said earlier, I think the Blu-ray isn't worth the money. Yes, it looks super sweet. And if you were a client of mine, I'd upsell you on it if we are cutting a project of yours in HD. But the reality is you'll be shelling out WAY too much money for Blu-ray discs and I figure in 4-5 years someone will have finally figured out solid state media and we'll see direct-to-harddrive downloads of HD videos and card readers instead of discs that will make them obsolete.

*New cameras are coming out that shoot 2x and 4x, or 3840x2160 and 7680x4320. 7680x4320 is almost rivaling film resolutions. You can expect in the next few years there will be an emergence of cable channels with programming in these resolutions. However, by that time a better camera will also be created making this a vicious circle.

You make some valid points but I don't believe that optical discs (in whatever form) will be obsolete in 4-5 years. They are fairly handy for storage as well, and I might like to store my future "HD home videos" on discs and such so as to not occupy my hard drive(s).

I would prefer all my media on discs just because we all know how data loss can happen with storage devices. Also, you can transport media easily from device to device. Hard to take a movie to a friends/parents house if it's sitting on some hard drive.

Well thats where the P2 cards come in. They transfer data much faster, don't need to be finalized, and are very portable. There's a reason discs are dead in professional video and the biggest is speed, everything is solid state or tapes still. (XDCam by Sony was the big dog for a few months, which was blu-ray, but no one uses it anymore but old CBS stations that haven't upgraded)

You would just pick the movie(s) you wanted, drag em onto the card, and then take that card to the friend's house.

Or you use the fiber data connection and log onto your home device and watch from it at your friend's place. Or log onto Blockbuster and watch it from their server.

That could work if successful, stable encryption was employed. We all know how much the big dogs want their stuff to be "protected."

That is one of the reasons Blu-Ray won out... double DRM and region coding (bleh).

Don't tell that to Apple, who rents HD movies digitally.

Its still a disc that can be scratched, lost, stolen etc and if you pay 24 dollars for a movie you watch maybe 1-2 times..well, thats a complete waste. Hopefully digital downloads trump Blu-Ray, because I do not want to buy a properitary player, nor do I want to keep on replacing everything everytime the lastest (and more expensive) format comes out. 1080p also still doesn't solve the problem of there being 100+ digital channels with not much in the way of anything to watch most of the time.

The internet is the future......not broadcast networks. If anything they should be upgrading ISP speeds and not forcing us to buy 2000 dollar televisions, 1000 dollar dvd players etc. Perhaps that is just my persepective, since I tend to live a very transient lifestyle and the less loot to move from place to place, the better.

Its still a disc that can be scratched, lost, stolen etc and if you pay 24 dollars for a movie you watch maybe 1-2 times..well, thats a complete waste. Hopefully digital downloads trump Blu-Ray, because I do not want to buy a properitary player, nor do I want to keep on replacing everything everytime the lastest (and more expensive) format comes out. 1080p also still doesn't solve the problem of there being 100+ digital channels with not much in the way of anything to watch most of the time.

The internet is the future......not broadcast networks. If anything they should be upgrading ISP speeds and not forcing us to buy 2000 dollar televisions, 1000 dollar dvd players etc. Perhaps that is just my persepective, since I tend to live a very transient lifestyle and the less loot to move from place to place, the better.

That $2k television is just like a $2k computer monitor anymore. My "edit suite" is just a suped up Mac, and my monitors are 2 30" HDTVs with HDMI connection to the computer. The HD signal is free via broadcast, and fairly cheap via digital cable ($29.95 / month) or via FIOS fiber cable ($49.95) regardless of the TV you have to run it on. Its just the Blu-ray with the incredible markup that doesn't seem to be worth it.

I read a trade magazine tonight that claimed the next set of TVs in the next 2-3 years will be either 3D or Holographic Projection. Needless to say, the Blu-ray discs won't have the oomph to play these back and a new medium (Blu-ray2?) and a new reader will be needed.

He's right though. Just like business phone service has seen a dramatic shift away from "lines" and toward digital capacity, entertainment can only go that same direction. Digital video content delivery to the consumer is really still in its infancy, and already is catching on pretty quickly.

What was the reason that decision to go blue ray was not made a year ago? Why now after all those DVD players were sold? Did we get taken the cleaners this last year?

" The internet is the future......not broadcast networks. "

So TVs someday might be gone? I know I read and watch my news on my PC. I only watch TV rarely.

/off topic...where all my vcash go to!?

Okay so does anyone have any info on how Blu-Ray is doing now marketwise? I see a few of them for sale every now and then, but you don't hear anyone talking about how they just bought a BR player and are converting their movie library to BR.

Is BR now suffering from lack of coverage and competition with DVD?

No, Blu-Ray is suffering from costing a shit ton in a poor economy. Its still amazing looking and the industry standard, when the economy shifts it'll do well again.

I don't think it will shift very fast until the prices come down. DVDs didn't do well until the price dropped below $20 bucks each to be competitive with VHS. Early adopters will still buy the discs, but the masses won't until the players cost is half of what it currently is and the discs drop by $10 each.

Once the players drop into the $150 range, and the discs drop to the $20 range, I'd expect a bunch of people to adopt the technology. It's just so much better of a picture. DVD was so much better of a picture too, and it didn't really take off until the pricing was competitive to the technology it was replacing.

The cost of the players is an issue but the cost of the individual media seems to be the real problem to me. I'm not paying two or three times what it would cost me to download something for the joy of having to go to the store to get it when the data storage costs on my PS3 and media server is below 50cents/gb and only going down.

I already have a player in my ps3 as well (and the sony remote is actually very nice for the device too, kudos to Sony on this. Much improved over the ps2 remote for dvds). What stops me is the media price too.

Bought my first and only Blu-ray disc this weekend. Wife and I bought "Planet Earth." We wanted this in an HD format, and it happened to be on sale this week at Best Buy. Beyond that, the media costs need to drop before I'll start buying movies, even ones I'm not replacing.

More people are going Blu-ray then you guys think. The simple up converting of DVD's plus the in store demonstrations of the technology are going a long way in getting people to switch. Not to mention the ps3 and how fulfilling it is to get more for your money.

With my experience working just 1 day a week at best buy (for the amazing discount) one tiny price drop and it won't even be discussed anymore, though it is already taking off. A 400 dollar player and a 24 dollar movie is not as bad as it used to be.

I think you also need to have a TV that works with HD-DVD as well don't you? You need the correct port? I am pretty ingnorant with the technology of late considering I upgraded my entire system 5 years ago and its looking like my first generation DLP Samsung won't have the right inputs to plug an HD-DVD player into it, or at least benefit from it.

I think you also need to have a TV that works with HD-DVD as well don't you? You need the correct port? I am pretty ingnorant with the technology of late considering I upgraded my entire system 5 years ago and its looking like my first generation DLP Samsung won't have the right inputs to plug an HD-DVD player into it, or at least benefit from it.

You need an HDTV with an HDMI port to get the best out of your Blu-Ray player. The newer LCD's with 120hz are amazing...

Hopefully your PS3s hold up :( Watch out for those firmware updates /grumble.

More people are going Blu-ray then you guys think. The simple up converting of DVD's plus the in store demonstrations of the technology are going a long way in getting people to switch. Not to mention the ps3 and how fulfilling it is to get more for your money.

With my experience working just 1 day a week at best buy (for the amazing discount) one tiny price drop and it won't even be discussed anymore, though it is already taking off. A 400 dollar player and a 24 dollar movie is not as bad as it used to be.
Except that anything that's not explicitly on sale (or ancient), is going to cost $29.99. Hell, Commando on DVD is $5 and it's still $29.99 on blu-ray. Upconverting is all fine and good for the players, but that in and of itself doesn't sell the blu-ray media, and that's where the real profits lie.

It's not the player so much as the media that's going to slow down adoption of the format. Sure there are a bunch of people. There were also a bunch of people using DVDs in 2001, but it hadn't quite taken off yet. Mostly due to price points.

Once the media comes down, it will really take off.

Price of media has kept me away as well. We just bought a new LCD tv and talked about getting a player with it, but then decided to hold off. How many average people can walk into a room and automatically tell the difference between whether or not you're running Blueray or DVD? My wife and I figure that since we don't know what we're missing, we'll happily save money for a while.

I never trust in store demos. One place tried to show us the difference between TVs, and the cheaper TV didn't look as nice. Gee, suppose the turned down the color on that model to help upsell?

How many average people can walk into a room and automatically tell the difference between whether or not you're running Blueray or DVD?

Unless legally blind, I don't think there's a single person on earth that couldn't instantly see the difference between SD and HD. It's massive.

Just going from TV to 720x480 (DVD resolution) is a noticeable to pretty much everyone if they're close enough to the screen to read text. DVD to 720p or whatever isn't quite as huge, however SD/DVD to 1080p is literally like night and day. You can't possibly not tell.

I can tell a difference. I hate watching movies on regular DVD Things seem fuzzy or unfocused in the background. Plus I like the in-movie menu, mostly the status bar so I can see exactly where I am in the movie in case I have to stop it for some reason.

To make these "HD" DVDs they are going back to second generation prints and re-digitizing them at the higher resolution. The picture quality is going to be, at least, double what a DVD would be. Never mind that DVD mpegs are compressed a good deal more than their blu-ray counterparts. I bought a Blu-ray writer for my edit suite and we've made some absolutely sick looking trade show Blu-ray DVDs from HDCam footage.

That being said, Blu-ray is only gonna last 3-4 years before the next generation one comes out. Their media is too tiny to handle Imax, which every huge production is shooting on anymore. There is a lot of talk in the industry to find a digital recording format for Imax because the cameras are so fucking huge and the film is so bulky its too heavy to project on a normal projector - they need to lay it on its side. Once these hurdles are overcome, I doubt you'll see anything else (and IMax can be down converted for normal projections, as it is now). I'm sure the next generation players will play Blu-ray much like how Blu-ray play DVDs now, though.

25-35$ movies are a great way to increase piracy.

Maybe on physical discs, but probably not as downloads anytime very soon. The difference between seeding/downloading a 600mb movie and one that's tens of gigabytes is prohibitive.

If you can compress a standard definition (640x480) movie to 600 MB, you should be able to compress a 720p (1280x720) movie to about 1.8 GB, or a 1080p (1920x1080) movie to about 4 GB--which conveniently fits on a standard DVD.

Actual BD-data content is in the 8GB range. On popular stuff I can get 400 KB/s off a bittorrent cloud -- I can start a download before I go to work and watch the 2 hours of it I'd ever want to (I think I've looked at the "BONUS FEATUREZ ZOMGZ" on like ... 3 movies ever) when I get home and pop a cold one. Yes, those costs are definitely going to fuel piracy.

I don't know that today's compression levels would be acceptable to someone looking to replace a HD DVD purchase.

Even if you used a heavily compressed ~4GB download as an example, just look at how few raw DVD rips stay seeded currently (at ~4.7GB). There's a big tipping point effect under 1GB.

Sanchek's probably right about this one. If you don't care about quality, you'll probably download the DVD version. If you do, you've got the sweet HD set and HD player and are gonna pay the cash for the disc (or you sign up for netflix and get them mailed to you).

Maybe on physical discs, but probably not as downloads anytime very soon. The difference between seeding/downloading a 600mb movie and one that's tens of gigabytes is prohibitive.

True, but pirated movies have never really been about quality video. I do so love that "covered in saran wrap" feel of hand-cam pirated versions of new movies.

And while its not as huge as what you're talking about, 4-5gb dvd rips are already pretty common in, uh, some places(porn).

DiscW, but if you aren't talking about quality - you're in the wrong medium to begin with. Regular DVDs still exist, and will continue to exist in parallel. And for less money.

/agreed

I've tried to watch those shotty pirate versions of movies just released in the theatre. They suck, they're shit, they're worse than watching something on VHS. Only someone really desperate or hard up for cash would subject themselves to such low quality shit. It's just not worth my time to wait for something that may or may not be complete, could be ladden with some trojan or in a foreign language. I'd rather just pay the $18 it costs me and my gf to go see a movie than deal with that crap.

Silly question, but I wonder when/if they're going to change the design of the Blu-ray movie cases. Every time I look at one I think I'm looking at some plastic brochure with the BR logo on every corner, whereas DVD cases only show the movie art/print and I actually feel like I'm buying a movie.

Probably when they figure out all this expensive DRM stuff is useless.

Just get one of those 400 disc changers and it won't matter since all your discs are loaded in the box.

Only someone really desperate or hard up for cash would subject themselves to such low quality shit.

The bootleg movie industry is HUGE. For every single legit DVD or movie ticket sold there are probably 10 bogus ones.

This is all you can get if you want to watch a newer movie in most places of the world. Last few summers big releases I saw as bootleg "cammer" films or on airplanes on the tiny screens on the back of seat backs. The first time I saw "The Dark Knight" it was a really good hack. The sound was decent and only one person got up to piss or get refreshments. The majority of movies out there are there are this "Haji" type (for the benifit of those who have been to Iraq). Governments forbid the original release, costs of the actual DVDs are prohibitive but all it takes is to download a pirate version, make a bunch of copies and run some cheapo cover art and stuff it in a sandwich bag. Some of them even put the subtitles of the native language.

Wolverine and other stuff is out on the net already. It is not always shitty cams.

are the prices of blue ray dvd's and players gonna come down?

Players yes, actualy Blu Ray movies however seem stuck at 29 bucks a pop when new. They do drop in price after awhile to $19 or so.

I wish they'd hurry up and drop the opening price for the movies so I could afford to rebuild my movie collection. Just picked up Last Samurai for Blu Ray and was very very pleased with how it looked.

To much money to be made at 29 bucks a pop. It is also the reason why DVD still has been out selling it.

I tend to wait a few weeks and then buy my bluray movies, I don't like paying top price. I've watched players drop from $249 to $199 at Blockbuster some cheap player but still a noticeable drop since Christmas.

I get most of my Blu-Rays from Columbia House. If I wait for a good deal, I can generally get buy 1 get one free Blu Rays. Their normal price for a blu-ray is anywhere between $26.99 and $29.99. Add about $5 bucks for shipping two blu-rays, and you spend about $35 for two.

hmmm... I'll pull up my order history from there and give you guys some figures:

04/03/09: Curious Case of Benjamin Button and Tales of Despereaux preorder: $34.93
03/04/09: Yes Man, Quantum of Solace, X-Files, Burn After Reading, Tropic Thunder, and V for Vendetta: $99.82
12/08/08: Saw V and Hancock: $34.94
12/05/08: Wanted and Step Brothers $34.94

That's not a bad deal for all blu-rays.

Though any Disney Blu-Ray they don't carry, and I had to buy The Wrestler at Best Buy last week because they don't carry that either. I currently have Taken and Gran Turino in my cart waiting on a buy one get one free offer.