So my hubby and I are heading to Europe in a little less than 2 weeks. We are flying into London and staying there for 4 nights, then to Paris for 4 nights, then to the Loire Valley for 6 nights. Actually, 2 nights in St-Malo(Brittany) and 4 in Amboise.

I believe that there are some that regularly post here from those areas, so I'm looking for some information! I know the basic touristy things to do, but what we're looking for is to spend some time out of the tourist trap areas and experience some things that the residents enjoy. Any ideas/tips would be great! We will have a Tube pass and a Metro pass for London and Paris, so anywhere fairly accessible by those would be nice. We'll be renting a car for the Loire Valley area.

Thanks! :)

Go to a locale pub and ask where they suggest you take a wine tasting tour.

Oh and find , through the same venue, small family owned resteraunts to experience the cusine.

Go to a locale pub and ask where they suggest you take a wine tasting tour.

Oh and find , through the same venue, small family owned resteraunts to experience the cusine.


Along with Fanny's suggestions, a short tour through a cheese operation might be fun. And, if you can get away from the large metro areas teeming with people, you will most likely get both better service and a better sampling of the food. Just walking through a smaller town/village and admiring the buildings, and the aromas, and picking up some fresh baked goods and shopping the markets might make some of the best meals you have.

Have a great time. :)

Glad you're coming over =)

If you really want to see England, and not just London, then 4 nights is plenty of time to venture out of the capital. It would be a crime not to spent the first day hitting the 'tourist traps', ie St Pauls, Buckingham Palace, London Bridge, British Museum, National Gallery, Tate Modern, etc etc. St Pauls will be a particular highlight. It's expensive (12 quid entry these days) but it's one of those experiences that will leave you dumbfounded. You can climb through the cathedral structure to the top, it's somewhat taxing, pretty scary, and exhausting, but once up the top the views across London are nothing short of brilliant. Also, check out the Tower of London, and then pay about 15 quid (or 24 dollars?) for a boat trip down the Thames, docking at Embankment. You can soak in some real history/sites in a good 45mins, seeing both sides of the Thames. So yeah, definately hit up the Tourist-y parts of London for a day.

After that, I would highly recommend a day trip to the 'countryside'. See some Old England. If you've got a tube card, perhaps the best place is Windsor. It's down the Thames some half hour from London, but it's a beautiful town nestle on the banks of the river. Windsor Castle is obviously a big attraction, but the old town of Windsor itself is very charming. From here it's a lovely stroll to Eton (famous Eton College, and cobled streets with some very serene countryside walks). Don't forget to feed the Swans, but for godsake be ready to hoof it when they descend!

I would also highly recommend a train ride to one of the Home Counties, ie Kent, Sussex, Surrey. They are all a train ride of some 60 - 90 minutes away (with some breathtaking views on the ride down. If y ou go to Kent, the 'garden of england', I can recommend either Dover or Canterbury. Canterbury is a particular must see. The Cathedral, obviously, is perhaps the most spectacularly preserved gothic, medieval structure of its kind in Western Europe (next to Notre Dame). It continues to dominate the skyline of the town. Canterbury remains small (30,000 people) so walking around its medieval streets is very pleasurable. It is a town trapped in time. When you get off the train, it's two minutes to the famous high street. You walk in past medieval churches, through the 'West Gate' which is a fantastic, still-standing, stone 11th century fortified gateway of massive size, where traffic still passes. Through here the high street is cobbled, with shops and houses overhanging the street, charming museums, abbeys, churches, monasteries, book shops, clock towers, and of course a modern shopping centre with all the main outlets at the end. If you do this in a morning (though I doubt it), jump back on the train and go 15minutes to the village of Chilham. It's Tudor square and church, Jacobean castle and medieval village are nestled in the middle of hundreds of acres of countryside, and it's a real taste of rural English life. Not far away, in Tinterden, are some great English vineyards (yes - we have wine!) which, if you are getting the train, are always worth a visit.

Sussex is also another great Home County, and it's also my county! East Sussex in particular is beautiful, still renown for its countryside, despite being considerably built up over the past several decades. Several places, Rye, Hastings, Eastbourne and Lewes are well worth a visit. Eastbourne has a fantastic victorian pier, and it's famous for its seafront and victorian architecture. Lewes is very, very historic, home to the Harvey's Brewery, has a great castle, and very old churches. It's also nestled in chalk cliffs and lovely countryside. West Sussex is similarly charming, Brighton is a good city for its nightlife and shopping, but also its Victorian pier - complete with theme park - and 'The Lanes', cobbled, independent high streets stretching throughout the city, where you can pick up all kinds of things. Bridging West and East Sussex are the South Downs, a national park, which culminates in the Seven Sisters and Cuckmere rivers, with chalk cliffs and views across the channel, a must see if you visit the coast.

Spent your last day in London again, shopping, sight seeing, or relaxing. Catch a show at the West End, hit up some bars in Soho, or go to China Town.

Maybe Anterak can school you about France, but I hope that helps for your London visit. If you want any more suggestions or have any questions, just let me know.
(You're lucky if you're coming in 2 weeks, we have some great weather at the moment).

Lots of great info there. Thanks a lot!

We do have a private tour of London scheduled for the first day we are in London. It might be costing us significantly more than if we did it on our own, but we figured time is important and spending a little more there, we don't have to deal with lines getting into the major attractions and spending the time figuring out how to get from one to another. Big time saver I think(hope) so we can spend more time exploring other areas :)

We also have a tour scheduled to go to Stonehenge, Bath and Salisbury. So we will have two days to plan our own stuff. The boat down the Thames sounds great, as does St. Paul's. I'll definitely put those on my list. My hubby has been to England a few times(15 years ago) and hasn't been to St. Paul's so that's a bonus.

Canterbury sounds fantastic too. I can see we are going to have to make some hard choices:confused:


The cheese shop...how would I go about finding out information about that? Is it a fairly common thing and I'll be able to find it when we get there or do I need to plan ahead for that?

We definitely do want to try to get out of town a bit and experience more of what the locals do.

Thanks again for all the great info! This is a tad overwhelming for me, but I know we will enjoy every minute. Except maybe trying to communicate in French, which we don't know at all! *giggle*

'This is a tad overwhelming for me, but I know we will enjoy every minute'

- There is, really, no where on earth quite like Europe. I don't say that as a European, but rather as someone who's interested in cultural visits, historic sites, diversity, scenary, and travel. Even us British, who always feel somewhat apart from Europe, find the continent daunting. I think as an American you will find much that is familiar in England, unlike once you cross the channel. As you say, language barriers are very overwhelming, and that is something which makes the cross over to London from America quite easy (I know that was the case vice versa when we've gone to America, as opposed to when we cross the Channel).

There is so much to do, with often so little time or restricted costs in which to do it, that I've ruined many a holiday trying to fit too much in, and feeling guilty about the stuff I miss. I ran my fiance ragged when we went to Florence and Venice, I'd have her up at 7am, out for 8am, walking and sight seeing until exactly 3.10pm everyday, when she had had absolutey enough, and by 3.15pm we were arguing. Once she sat down in St Mark's Square, refusing to budge another step until we sat down and had a drink or something to eat. I'm a ruthless tourist, one who feels he must see everything before the trip is over! Even I must admit, this can often make it less of a holiday, and more of a stress! I remember a time in Florence when I knew I had crossed the line, when Jessica was trailing several meters behind me, we came up to Michaelangelo's David (the replica in the Square outside the town hall, not the real one in the L'academmia), and I said "Oh look babe, it's the David!" - to which she replied "At this point, they all look the bloody same" without even raising her head to even look.

What am I babbling about? Well, I think it's important to plan ahead, choose a few things rather than trying to squeeze everything in, and don't feel stressed or hesitant about the stuff you miss. It's not going anywhere, and gives more reasons for another trip (we've been to Florence twice now, and Venice three times, to which we're returning in December for our honeymoon...Yep, Halo's getting married in eight months!).

'We also have a tour scheduled to go to Stonehenge, Bath and Salisbury'

- Wow, you're pretty set then! Bath is incredible, a town made almost entirely out of the local limestone. The Roman baths are obviously a must see, as are the famous half-moon town houses. The town centre, while remaining cobbled, georgian, and historic, nonetheless have all the modern shopping outlets and makes for a great bit of holiday-spending. Don't miss the Abbey at Bath. It has seventh century foundations, and was the site where Edgar was crowned 'King of the English' (the first real Anglo-Saxon to have been done so). It's also a monument to medieval gothic architecture, and as an America you may want to visit the eighteenth century US Senator who's intered there, I think William Bingam?

Stonehenge needs no explanation. But enjoy the Salisbury Plains in their own right - they are a lovely backdrop to rural England.

Ah I'm so jealous. Not managed to get a holiday this year, because of the wedding (they don't come cheap!), but I guess there's the honeymoon!

The cheese shop...how would I go about finding out information about that? Is it a fairly common thing and I'll be able to find it when we get there or do I need to plan ahead for that?


Actually, you could ask the folks you are setting the tour up with for some info on cheese manufacturers, or ask the hotel staff where you stay, or try google; I just thought that it might be something fun to fit in knowing the french are big on cheese, and everyone does the wine so some cheese and bread might be a fun and tasty side trip.

I am very jealous, seeing your English itinerary; I may yet manage to do that, if I can past my aversion to giving money to any of these airlines. I will probably have to though since I really want to get to Tuscany at some point for a food tour.

Again, have a great time, which it looks like you will. :D

There's no place like Tuscany. We did a week there last christmas. Flew into Pisa, then stayed at Lucca for 2 nights, Florence for three nights, Siena for an evening and then flew home again. The rolling countryside and medieval cities are beautiful. I can definately recommend it. And there's nothing like tasting Chianti in the actual vineyards. Think I posted some pics of the trip on the forum.

If you get over to London (like I keep telling everyone!) just drop me an email, I'm usually in the vicinity for a pint!

Now Halo, living in Western Europe don't you start to feel its all kinda homogenized? If things didn't cost pounds instead of dollars, I couldn't tell most of London and Paris apart from any other city.

Definitely get outside the city limits as often as you can!

No, are you serious? I mean sure, they have their large, metropolitan-like similarities in that they're cities with busy centres, commercial skyrises, cathedrals, and several million souls - but in character they're as different as chalk and cheese.

The differences between Madrid, Rome, Berlin, Amsterdam, Paris, London? I don't really think you can get places more different.

Edit: But of course, get outside of the city limits. But that's good holiday sense for anywhere. Problem is with cities in Europe is that there is so much culture, heritage and sight seeing in the capitals, that one trip is not usually half enough to appreciate that, and then bounce off to the million places beyond the capital.

Well, here's an image of London Bridge:
http://www.london-se1.co.uk/restaurants/images/030712_starbucks.jpg

Near Borough Tube Stop:
http://www.london-se1.co.uk/restaurants/images/071003_starbucks.jpg

http://i.pbase.com/g3/88/102888/2/59013323.IMG_1464_TCYX.jpg

Hyde Park:
http://home.flash.net/~ral1/starbucks/bigimages14/DSCN14694.jpg

Accross the street from Harrods:
http://www.viewlondon.co.uk/upload/venues/img_starbucksBrunswick_160.jpg

You get the idea ...
I lived in Prague for about a year, just went back and was shocked at how much it has changed since they joined the EU. Chain stores are popping up all over the place, its pretty awful.

I've been to all of those cities sans Amsterdam. If you really can't envision something more dramatically different you really should visit the Middle East or Africa or something.

Well, at least we will feel somewhat at home! *grin*

The language barrier is exactly why we chose to go to London first, although Paris is going to be a culture shock no matter which order we visit...haha.

I googled the cheese shops and found a lot of info there, so I think we will be able to find something easily when we get there.

We broke up the tours and threw in free days in between so we could have some down days to relax and do things on our own just exploring the towns on our own and doing whatever sounds interesting. You guys gave me some great ideas of where to start there, so that's perfect!

We ended it in the Loire Valley exploring the chateaus for that reason also. We don't want to come home stressed from trying to fit everything in around the big cities. That is the one piece of advice we have gotten multiple times and we fully intend to *try* to stick to it. Don't plan too much and allow time to sit in the cafes or parks, wander the streets, etc.

I think we have some great tours lined up and now I have a great list of more casual things to explore on our own, thanks to you guys!

5 days and counting now!:eek:

Oh here's some advice if its your first time headed to Europe. You'll leave late at night US and land in Europe in the morning. You won't sleep on the plane (well) and will be exhausted. DON'T go to sleep before 8 PM local time or your jet lag will wreck your first few days. Try to walk around the city (we went to Abbey Road and took pictures like we were the Beatles on the cross walk) and stay out of the hotel. No naps, no sleep, and don't stop moving until a 6ish dinner and then off to bed! You'll wake up the next morning right on schedule.

Oooohhhh!!

A Subway shop in Hyde park!! Italian BMT (on Italian bread) with lettuce, tomatoes, green peppers, onions, black olives, a shot of salt and pepper, and just a hint of vinegar/oil!!!!! I could eat those once a week easy, and the steak and cheese (with green peppers and onions) once a week as well.

And if they ever do the Steak and Bacon special sandwich again, twice a week easy.

Sorry for the tangent, but I am hungry! :D

We actually have a flight that leaves here around 6:30-ish AM and arrives in London at 10:40 PM (London time). I think we are about 6 hours earlier than London time-wise. I was thinking that by the time we got to the hotel and settled that we could just go to bed and get up the next morning ready to go. Since we do have to be at the airport here around 5:00 AM, we should be good and tired. Does that make sense or am I being too optimistic? :D

Oh, weird. I've never seen a trans-atlantic flight that left in the morning. That is probably a ton easier to handle, jet lag wise. I have to go to Ireland for a wedding in a few months, hope I can find a similar flight!

Our travel agent seemed quite surprised by it. Not sure if it had anything to do with leaving on a weekday or not. Originally, when we were going to leave on a Saturday, it was an overnight flight. When we decided to switch it to leaving on Wednesday, not only did the price go down considerably, we got a better flight schedule!

Granted, my hubby is going to have a miserable day at work the day after we get back. =( Oh well, such is the price for taking a great vacation.

Easy for me to say when I don't work and can sleep the next day if I want! LOL

The most important thing I learned in France was to greet them in French first then ask if they speak English. Never just start talking to someone in English assuming they will talk to you in English even if they know it. It makes me unhappy.

I saw my mom get treated rather poorly b/c she refused to accept this and would just go up to shop owners, etc asking how much something was, etc.

And then I would go up say Bonjour, parlez Anglais? And they would say oui and we'd start chatting in English.

Useful French phrases:
Combien? How much?
Je'ne sais pas. I don't undersand
Parlez Anglais? Speak English?

Most in touristy areas do speak some English and will speak in English with you, at least that's been my experience. I haven't spent much time in Paris... the bulk of my time in France has been down where Anterak lives (Nice) as that is where my sister-in-law is from. So who knows if Parisans behave the same way. Ironically my sister-in-law's family is visiting from France right now until May :D

Never been to London but do so want to go. Hope you have a great time, please take lots of pics especially if you meet up with Halo :)

Oh Kelraz, you're being a bit dramatic.

This is London Bridge:

http://jwolf5162.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/tower-bridge-night2.jpg

Hardly a Parisian bridge, is it?