SAN FRANCISCO – An Oakland police officer shot by a man wanted on a parole violation was taken off life support after vital organs were removed for transplantation, a hospital spokeswoman said Tuesday.
The officer's death brings to five, counting the gunman, the number of people killed in Saturday's confrontation.
Officer John Hege was taken off life support Monday night and his heart, liver and kidneys were removed, said Andrea Breaux of Alameda County Medical Center.
The 41-year-old officer had been declared brain dead on Sunday but the hospital kept him on life support so his organs could be donated, in keeping with his wishes.
Four patients received the organs, she said.
Police said Hege and his partner, Sgt. Mark Dunakin, were gunned down when the two motorcycle officers pulled over parolee Lovelle Mixon on Saturday.
In the manhunt that followed, two more officers died when the city's SWAT team stormed an apartment where Mixon was hiding. The two officers who were killed at the apartment were Sgt. Ervin Romans, 43, and Sgt. Daniel Sakai, 35. Mixon also was killed.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090324/ap_on_re_us/police_shot_calif;_ylt=AuVSvh5UDyQfYCO3bqqzw_UDW7o F

You are so quick to point out when the police overreact against suspects, but what about when they are gunned down in the line of duty?

Kinda gives you a perspective of why they might over react from time to time, eh?

it gives me a perspective of how god damn stupid you are

Sure you didn't mean Sanchek?

Whoops, I did mean San....My mistake!

I was just going to ignore this, because it's tacky and I'm busy, but jesus christ.

You're talking about them encountering this guy:

His family said Mixon, 26, had served six years in state prison for assault with a firearm during an armed robbery in San Francisco. More recently, he served several months in prison last year for a parole violation.

State Attorney General Jerry Brown said he will examine how Mixon was monitored following his release from prison in November. Mixon also was a suspect in a December 2007 murder but was never charged because of lack of evidence, officials said.

How can you possibly even begin to equate that with the recent stories we've discussed here?

Do you think that this officer (http://ayonae.com/to-serve-and-beat-your-brains-out-t11987.html) thought the little teenage girl he rushed and beat down in her cell was a violent ex-con that served time for armed robbery and was suspected of murder?

When those Atlanta cops were planting evidence on that innocent old lady here, do you think they thought the presence of planted drugs might have suddenly made her a violent ex-con suspected of murder?

Maybe you think that when they subdued Mayor Calvo's family and killed his dogs, they thought a quality of mayoral pooches is that they had spent a few years in the "pen" for armed robbery with a deadly chew toy?

Give me a fucking break.

To tie these five (ostensibly) honorable officers to those other thugs-with-a-badge is pretty damn disrespectful to their memory.

Ahh, but my point is, you didn't post anything about these five officers.
When it comes to you, and stories about police officers, all we get is "OMG teh polise are teh sukkors!!11!one".

I just thought it was time to post something in regards to what happens when things go horribly wrong to good officers. Not every officer of the law is represented by the guys that beat down teenage girls in holding cells. Sometimes they are just doing what they are supposed to be doing, and get killed for it.

Wrong. You said:

Kinda gives you a perspective of why they might over react from time to time, eh?

Again:

Do you think that this officer thought the little teenage girl he rushed and beat down in her cell was a violent ex-con that served time for armed robbery and was suspected of murder?

When those Atlanta cops were planting evidence on that innocent old lady here, do you think they thought the presence of planted drugs might have suddenly made her a violent ex-con suspected of murder?

Maybe you think that when they subdued Mayor Calvo's family and killed his dogs, they thought a quality of mayoral pooches is that they had spent a few years in the "pen" for armed robbery with a deadly chew toy?

The only similarity between these situations is that LEOs were involved.

Ahh, but my point is, you didn't post anything about these five officers.
When it comes to you, and stories about police officers, all we get is "OMG teh polise are teh sukkors!!11!one".

I just thought it was time to post something in regards to what happens when things go horribly wrong to good officers. Not every officer of the law is represented by the guys that beat down teenage girls in holding cells. Sometimes they are just doing what they are supposed to be doing, and get killed for it.

You know...you're a fucking idiot.

tyvm sixee)

You know...you're a fucking idiot.


Hey, I said I was sorry about the typo in the title.

No need to get nasty about it....

Hey, I said I was sorry about the typo in the title.

No need to get nasty about it....


It goes way beyond the title!

Why is it San's, or anyone else s responsibility to comment on every single thing?

Dumb thread Sixee. Straw man argument. I guess what you are trying to imply is that if you are upset about police violence, then you don't care if police are killed in the line of duty.

Dumb

I have a great example of dumb people in law enforcement. On Saturday a jail guard at my hometown county jail helped a murderer escape. This is the guy who killed 2 men and almost a 3rd last year. This dumb girl helped him escape and is presumed dead herself now. She had 4 kids and a husband.

http://wlos.com/shared/newsroom/top_stories/wlos_vid_2327.shtml

A prime example of how terrible our system is. I actually knew this girl too, she's 2yrs younger than me.

She helped him escape the day after they finally got the 6th suspect extradicted. My whole home town is upside down and the law enforcement is undertrained, underbudget, and completely retarded. I can't imagine what larger cities deal with but it's crazy out there.

Whoops, I did mean San....My mistake!


Which I am sure deepens Wiggo's perspective. :p

Well, we are all allowed to make mistakes (in regards to the title of the thread)

Actually, I was referring to the overreaction ******** pointed out with the militarization of police forces across the country, not necessarily the situations with the teen aged girl, the planted evidence, and the officer that shot the guy laying on the ground .

My guess is if these officers had had the equipment of the military, they would have probably been alive.

In the manhunt that followed, two more officers died when the city's SWAT team stormed an apartment where Mixon was hiding. The officers who were killed at the apartment were Sgt. Ervin Romans, 43, and Sgt. Daniel Sakai, 35. Mixon also was killed.

Unfortunately the equipment didn't seem to help. I fail to see how the deaths of four people who volunteered to be in dangerous situations and ended up laying down their lives in service of their community has anything to do with rampant and increasing abuses of police authority by other people -- against people who "volunteered" to have drugs planted in their homes so they could get shot.

Sixee, unless you love abuse, try to do your homework a bit. Even I am getting sick of you being called an idiot after everything you post or post on. Its easier and cheaper for you to think more and post less than to buy airfare, find Wiggo and punch him in the face, inspite of as much satisfaction as it would give. Its almost to the point that you should probably just not come here anymore. You would not be missing much as its mostly ego stroke or poo fling anyway. Its as inept as the government and policies commented on.

Sixee, unless you love all this abuse, You might want to just not come to this board anymore. This place has degenerated to mostly poo fling anyway so you wouldn't be missing much.

If you don't like it... GET THE FUCK OUT!

Unfortunately the equipment didn't seem to help. I fail to see how the deaths of four people who volunteered to be in dangerous situations and ended up laying down their lives in service of their community has anything to do with rampant and increasing abuses of police authority by other people -- against people who "volunteered" to have drugs planted in their homes so they could get shot.


In my wild youth I used to volunteer to have weed planted in my house but it always caught on fire and then the cops didn't need to come, but the local convenience store sure liked me and my friends.

Sixee, unless you love all this abuse, You might want to just not come to this board anymore. This place has degenerated to mostly poo fling anyway so you wouldn't be missing much.


You mean like this?

If you don't like it... GET THE FUCK OUT!

You mean like this?

I am tired of this D-Bag crying in every thread about how we should stop talking about the issues we are talking about cause he does not like the road we are going down in talking about them...

It is more annoying then Fandros calling everyone inbred and racists.

Thanks. Jedd, you just proved my point. Oh and the road I am talking about is where the discussion is nothing but insults and personal attacks that have no relation to the topic or is slammed because it isn't in 100% agreement with the original post. Typically with no corrective facts or substantial opposing view. Calling someone "A fucking idiot" isn't debate or even an arguement, stance or position. If you want to school someone, find something that is relavant. This orginally was a place for debate, and not just for everyone to be in agreement and give everyone a bunch of "Hazzahs!" or kick each other in the junk. I commented to Sixee specifically. I am just amazed he can take all the abuse he does without adjusting fire a bit on his approuch. Alot of it comes from you, Jedd and your parrot on your shoulder: Wiggo.

Thats all. Continue the feces fling....

This thread degenerated right about here...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090324/ap_on_re_us/police_shot_calif;_ylt=AuVSvh5UDyQfYCO3bqqzw_UDW7o F

You are so quick to point out when the police overreact against suspects, but what about when they are gunned down in the line of duty?

Kinda gives you a perspective of why they might over react from time to time, eh?

I think Rover's just mad because I got him and Sanchek's names mixed up...

Regardless Lumm, I come here, because, believe it or not, there are some gold nuggets amongst the poo.

Jedd sometimes has a good point. So does Halo. Wiggo, not so much. Rover is about even with Wiggo, lately. And Sanchek....well not all the poo has gold in it...

There is really only 1 person whose opinion really matters to me, and when that person asks me not to come back, then I won't.

Till then I'll endure being called an idiot on a message board, by people who really don't know me, beyond the stances I take here.

Regarding the original topic, wouldn't the 'militarization' of the police force allowed them to apprehend and/or kill this suspect without the loss of any police officers? I mean they could have gone in with an armored vehicle, and flattened this guy, or if that was unfeasible, brought the whole building down around his head, without the loss of one officer.

Seems to me the 'militarization' is going poorly, or this guy was Rambo.

Regarding the original topic, wouldn't the 'militarization' of the police force allowed them to apprehend and/or kill this suspect without the loss of any police officers?

By your post you think that killing half of the other people in the apartment complex would be justified in that case?

You're reducing a very complex social problem into a knot of logic that is only followable with vast amounts of intentional ignorance as justification that apparently the police were not heavily armed enough -- because they didn't blow up the building he was in to "arrest" him?

From evidence, apparently the SWAT team military gear didn't help enough to prevent two more officers from being fatally injured. So you have no argument either way, other than using a real tragedy for the city of Oakland to try to forward some asinine, quarter-baked point (and incorrectly addressed at that). Did you want to start over from the beginning?

Most still have yet to find gold in poo. This is as close as we get usually:

http://www.motifake.com/demotivational-poster/0810/corn-demotivational-poster-1223167230.jpg

Back to regularly scheduled programming.....
Malse, there might have been some sarcasm missed in Sixee's post. It was based on a prior thread of events that happened in Maryland when the S.W.AT. team was called in over the theft of a rifle/ammo shot and killed some couple's dog when they mistakenly raided their home.

I forget sarcasm doesn't translate well on the board here. we need a tag that says .

It's amazing how much time people can put into going "You're a poopoo head!" "No, YOU'RE a poopoo head" "NO YOU ARE" "NO YOU" "NOOO YOOUUU" "NOOO YYOOOUUU" without getting bored of it.

It's amazing how much time people can put into going "You're a poopoo head!" "No, YOU'RE a poopoo head" "NO YOU ARE" "NO YOU" "NOOO YOOUUU" "NOOO YYOOOUUU" without getting bored of it.


LOL my thoughts exactly! But you also forgot about how some analyze the poo flingers and give a poo opinion on said flung poo. :D

LOL my thoughts exactly! But you also forgot about how some analyze the poo flingers and give a poo opinion on said flung poo. :D


/flex :D

Without even reading this thread are calling snachek out for not posting both sides of a view, i mean , clearly you post as a neutral correspondant on all topics.

If I interpert your post correctly, you are saying I'm not a neutral correspondant on all topics?

While you are correct, I am very willing to admit when I am misinformed, or I change my mind on a particular subject. I've yet to see Sanchek do the same, although I'm sure he probably has.

When I read the story about the officers that were killed, my mind immediately pulled up the posts here where San said the 'militarization' of police forces were getting out of hand.

Unless this guy was Macgyver, the 'militarization' argument doesn't hold much water. I'm pretty sure San Fran has a substantial budget, and if they wanted to buy military style equipment, then these officers wouldn't have been killed by a parolee that just didn't want to go back to jail. Kind of hard to fight back against the tactics and equipment that could be employed, if the argument was correct.

Lets complain about this!

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/032609dnmetcopstop.3e9c080.html?nTar=OPUR


If you listen closely to the video the nurse from the hospital is explaing to the cop that the guy he has detained is needed to give permission to resuscitate. The cop in all his "militarized" glory the cop doesnt care...how nice...

Of course why would he think that someone who stopped and then proceeded through a red light and pulled into a hospital, would maybe be in need of help?

Osg approves!

Osg approves!

I do? WTH are you all talking about.. I have not even read this thread.

why start reading threads now?

In all fairness, I'm sure that police officers hear every excuse in the book for traffic violations.

Regardless, it's pretty sad that after he knew the reality of the situation, that he continued to act the way he did.

We just had a case settled here in Minnesota involving a State Trooper on New Years ramming a mini-van because it was not stopping right away after the trooper initiated sirens and lights.

The father, with two small children in the vehicle, was trying to find a safe place to pull over, after having made a lane change without signalling.

And, when the father jumped out of the minivan and screamed at the trooper for endangering the lives of his children, the trooper with gun drawn arrested the father for resisting arrest, among other charges.

The charges were dropped (although the man did spend a night in jail, and his kids had to witness this shit) and the trooper is being sent for more education and training.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/community/news/fort_lauderdale/sfl-bn-0304video,0,1629580.story

After a beat down in an elevator, Joshua Daniel Ortiz ended up with his nose broken and facing a charge of battering a Fort Lauderdale Is your Fort Lauderdale restaurant clean? - Click Here. police officer.

The 22-year-old Sunrise man was surprised and delighted to learn Wednesday that Broward prosecutors were dropping the case against him after reviewing an elevator surveillance video showing three officers aggressively rush and beat Ortiz to the ground.

Once the Dec. 5 video surfaced, it altered the course of the case. It contradicted police reports that Ortiz provoked and attacked Officers Derek Lade, Stefan Silver and Steve Smith.

"They were just sitting there watching my life go down the drain with those charges," Ortiz said Wednesday. "I've been going crazy thinking my life is over. It's barely started and it's over."

The looming legal charges delayed Ortiz's enrollment in college classes, he said.

Police first charged Ortiz with felony battery on a law enforcement officer.

But after seeing the video obtained by Ortiz's defense attorney, Stephen Melnick, prosecutors downgraded the charge to a misdemeanor resisting charge. Upon further review, prosecutors dropped the case entirely.

"We thought based on the facts and the evidence, including the videotape, that there was no reasonable likelihood of conviction at trial," said Lee Cohen, assistant state attorney in charge of misdemeanor cases.

Fort Lauderdale police internal affairs investigators reviewed the incident more than a month ago and found no violations of policy or procedures, said Sgt. Frank Sousa, the department's spokesman.

"It was not a beating," Sousa said. "The video clearly shows that [Ortiz] made a movement toward the officer."

The scary part about this trend is that it could happen to any of us, at any time; just because someone that doesn't like the cut of your jib happens to have a gun and a badge.

Yeah the officers were injured...suffering bruises to their knuckles and the soles of their feet...

Other side of the coin:
A single shot from a decorated police officer stopped a gunman's rampage through a North Carolina nursing home, ending a slaughter that left eight people dead and three more wounded, police said Monday.


He was stopped by a single shot to the chest fired by Justin Garner, a decorated police officer responding to a 911 call. Stewart wounded Garner three times in the leg as they traded gunfire in a hallway, McKenzie said.



http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090330/ap_on_re_us/nursing_home_shooting;_ylt=AnT6B33JeIVhYSIknnXWlUn 737YB;_ylu=X3oDMTJvODhvNjdtBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMDkwMzM wL251cnNpbmdfaG9tZV9zaG9vdGluZwRjcG9zAzcEcG9zAzcEc 2VjA3luX3RvcF9zdG9yaWVzBHNsawNwb2xpY2VndW5tYW4-

I suppose some people on this board would think he should have let the guy shoot him in the leg a fourth time before capping him...

Why are you still trying to build this strawman? It's not going to work.

Other side of the coin:




http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090330/ap_on_re_us/nursing_home_shooting;_ylt=AnT6B33JeIVhYSIknnXWlUn 737YB;_ylu=X3oDMTJvODhvNjdtBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMDkwMzM wL251cnNpbmdfaG9tZV9zaG9vdGluZwRjcG9zAzcEcG9zAzcEc 2VjA3luX3RvcF9zdG9yaWVzBHNsawNwb2xpY2VndW5tYW4-

I suppose some people on this board would think he should have let the guy shoot him in the leg a fourth time before capping him...

What kind of BS are you trying to prove? You honestly think anyone here would be mad at a police officer for taking down a suspect for even as little as the man brandishing a weapon?

Most sane people understand that if a police officer feels threatened they have a right to respond before they are injured. We just don't like our police officers shooting us in the head as we lay on the ground with our hands behind our backs...

Most sane people understand that if a police officer feels threatened they have a right to respond before they are injured. We just don't like our police officers shooting us in the head as we lay on the ground with our hands behind our backs...


I thought that comment interesting. If for example a 5'2 105 lb female sheriff stops say a 300lb 6'4 guy and he resisted so she shoots him to keep from being injured.

Hmm that's like a license to kill, not that every cop should be 6'5 and 320 lbs.

I thought that comment interesting. If for example a 5'2 105 lb female sheriff stops say a 300lb 6'4 guy and he resisted so she shoots him to keep from being injured.

Hmm that's like a license to kill, not that every cop should be 6'5 and 320 lbs.

only if you, for some weird reason, train the police officers to shoot to kill.

I thought that comment interesting. If for example a 5'2 105 lb female sheriff stops say a 300lb 6'4 guy and he resisted so she shoots him to keep from being injured.

Hmm that's like a license to kill, not that every cop should be 6'5 and 320 lbs.

Fortunately we don't need a specific law for every permutation of that because we have juries of peers to apply it. If, based on the evidence, she was in imminent danger, sure. If not, she goes to jail.

Or she could get lucky and it could be during a no knock warrant with faked evidence, when they'll just confiscate his stuff, not bother worrying about what she did, then book him for assault if he comes out of the coma.

See the difference?

only if you, for some weird reason, train the police officers to shoot to kill.


Yeah, they should be trained to shoot the nuts off a mosquito at 500 yards with a .38 revolver. That way she can just "wing'em" and that 6'4, 300 lb guy will understand she means business when she gives him a flesh wound.

Wiggout, have you ever really shot a firearm?

The job of a police officer is to diffuse and control the situation. In most cases firing a weapon will likely escalate the situation that is why the use of a weapon is supposed to be a "last resort".

Dosen't seemed to have escalated this particular situation: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/sisters_slain

Nolan said an officer patrolling the neighborhood arrived less than a minute after the 911 call and heard screaming inside the apartment. He kicked the door in and saw Revelus decapitate his 5-year-old sister.

As other officers arrived, Kerby ran into a bedroom and began to attack Saraphina. Two officers shot him, Nolan said.



In fact, I would say they saved a life by drawing and firing their weapons. But then again, I'm sure the police could be fabricating a story to justify why they fired on a man that only had a knife....

Are you really this dense, or are you just trolling?

Are you fucking retarded?

You think they would watch him saw off a girl's head and not shoot him?

They hear screaming, break in, see this guy sawing this poor girl's head off. He runs into the other room to get the other girl, and they cap his ass.

Are you honestly trying to say they walked in, saw him cutting away, and then tried to calmly talk him down while not using deadly force?

If so, read the fuck up on the organization you're trying so hard to defend.

Well, actually that's what they did. They didn't shoot him till they saw him trying to attack the sister that survived. At least that's what the story said.

All I'm saying is that when it comes to San, all we get are the police corruption/militarization/bad cops stories.

It would be nice if he posted a positive police story, every once in a while.

Well, actually that's what they did. They didn't shoot him till they saw him trying to attack the sister that survived. At least that's what the story said.

They said he got shot when going for his sister.

They run in, see him with the sister. At this point, deadly force is called for. The guy jumps up and runs into the other room, the police follow, catch up, and do the deed.

There is just no way they sat there and did not shoot him while he was murdering a young child. Not only does policy call for it, but even if it didn't, that guy was going down anyways.

I actually thought about what I'd do in this given situation:

You walk in and see this guy doing this. He runs into the other room, but let's say there is no other child in there. By the time you catch up, he's prone on the ground, hands and legs out, clearly not a threat. Mental illness obviously is a consideration in this circumstance.

Do you do him in anyways?

Do you do him in anyways?

Yeah, but make sure to plant a gun on him: http://www.twincities.com/ci_12033266

Still lawlin from page 1 to 6.

Nope, Cuff him, stuff him, make sure he "falls down a couple of times on the way to the squad car", but not cap him.

Nope, Cuff him, stuff him, make sure he "falls down a couple of times on the way to the squad car", but not cap him.

Complete disagreement. Score one for the cops on this one. 2 dead kids on the floor. One missing a head. Perp is armed and going after a 3 kid who is already bloodied and wounded? Yes. Deadly force is indeed a must here. He died instantly when the police "capped" him, and with that, he got off easy.

The ability of some of you to twist arguments, compounded by those who fall for it, is simply astounding. It does make for an interesting read.

To help clarify, drawing a firearm is not a last resort, and is in some cases SOP. Firing a firearm is a last resort, and when you shoot you shoot to kill, there is no wounding at that point. That's not what people are trained for, and frankly anyone who has been through that degree of training or worked in an environment where these types of situations comes up understands that.

Also, if it helps clear up the present argument...there are good cop stories, and bad cop stories. Some of both happen. Some of both get posted. If your side is underrepresented, instead of personal attacks how about posting alternative stories?

Complete disagreement. Score one for the cops on this one. 2 dead kids on the floor. One missing a head. Perp is armed and going after a 3 kid who is already bloodied and wounded? Yes. Deadly force is indeed a must here. He died instantly when the police "capped" him, and with that, he got off easy.

Lumm, I was responding to the hypothetical situation Ain posted. If he were in the room, on the floor, presenting no threat to anyone, then cuff'em and stuff'em.

Kan it is indeed a fun read. I like watching all the usual suspects pop out to deliver their slant on any given subject. To be honest, I do learn quite a bit from the people on this board.

Personal attacks are something I'm not too fond of. But sometimes it's fun to kick over the ants nest, and watch them run around.

If you want the real "wait ... what?" part of the story:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=7176549


Mixon's cousin, Dolores Darnell, 26, addressed the small crowd, calling him "a true hero, a soldier."

"This is the real Lovelle," she said, holding a picture of a smiling Mixon with his wife. "We do apologize for what he did to the officers' families. But he's not a monster."

Authorities say a day before the shooting the 26-year-old fugitive parolee was linked by DNA to the February rape of a 12-year-old girl who was dragged off the street at gunpoint.

Also, if it helps clear up the present argument...there are good cop stories, and bad cop stories. Some of both happen. Some of both get posted. If your side is underrepresented, instead of personal attacks how about posting alternative stories?


Best post in the whole thread; too bad it won't ever happen here. I miss Thorgrim :(

BINGHAMTON, N.Y. – A gunman barricaded the back door of a community center with his car and then opened fire on a room full of immigrants taking a citizenship class Friday, killing 13 people before apparently committing suicide, officials said.

Investigators said they had yet to establish a motive for the massacre, which was at least the fifth deadly mass shooting in the U.S. in the past month alone.

The attack came just after 10 a.m. at the American Civic Association, an organization that helps immigrants settle in this country. Police Chief Joseph Zikuski said the gunman parked his car against the back door, "making sure nobody could escape," then stormed through the front, shooting two receptionists, apparently without a word.

The killer, believed to be a Vietnamese immigrant, then entered a room just off the reception area and fired on a citizenship class.

"The people were trying to better themselves, trying to become citizens," the police chief said.

One receptionist was killed, while the other, shot in the abdomen, pretended to be dead and then crawled under a desk and called 911, he said.

Police said they arrived within two minutes.

The rest of those killed were shot in the classroom. Four people were critically wounded.

The man believed to have carried out the attack was found dead with a self-inflicted gunshot wound in an office, a satchel containing ammunition slung around his neck, authorities said. Police found two handguns — a 9 mm and a .45-caliber — and a hunting knife.

Thirty-seven people in all made it out of the building, including 26 who hid in the boiler room in the basement, cowering there for three hours while police methodically searched the building and tried to determine whether the gunman was still alive and whether he was holding any hostages, Zikuski said.

Those in the basement stayed in contact with police by cell phone, switching from one phone to another when their batteries ran out, Zikuski said. Others hid in closets and under desks.

Police heard no gunfire after they arrived but waited for about an hour before entering the building to make sure it was safe for officers. They then spent two hours searching the building.

They led a number of men out of the building in plastic handcuffs while they tried to sort out the victims from the killer or killers.

Most of the people brought out couldn't speak English, the chief said.

Alex Galkin, an immigrant from Uzbekistan, said he was taking English classes when he heard a shot and quickly went to the basement with about 20 other people.

"It was just panic," Galkin said.

Zhanar Tokhtabayeva, a 30-year-old from Kazakhstan, said she was in an English class when she heard a shot and her teacher screamed for everyone to go to the storage room.

"I heard the shots, every shot. I heard no screams, just silence, shooting," she said. "I heard shooting, very long time, and I was thinking, when will this stop? I was thinking that my life was finished."

Dr. Jeffrey King, speaking at a Catholic Charities office where counseling was being offered Friday night, said he was certain his mother, 72-year-old Roberta King, who taught English at the community center, was among the dead.

Authorities read a list of survivors and his mother's name wasn't on it, he said.

King, one of 10 children, described his mother as a woman brimming with interests ranging from the opera to the preservation society to collecting thousands of dolls. He recollected a recent conversation in which he told her to enjoy her retirement.

"I said, 'Mom you're in your 70s,'" King said. "She said, 'What? You don't think I enjoy working?'"

President Barack Obama, who was traveling in Europe, said he was shocked and saddened by the shooting, which he called an "act of senseless violence." He said he and his wife, Michelle Obama, were praying for the victims, their families and the people of Binghamton, about 140 miles northwest of New York City.

Gov. David Paterson said the massacre was probably "the worst tragedy and senseless crime in the history of this city." Noting mass killings in Alabama and Oakland, Calif., last month, he said: "When are we going to be able to curb the kind of violence that is so fraught and so rapid that we can't even keep track of the incidents?"

The community center was holding class "for those who want to become citizens of the United States of America, who wanted to be part of the American Dream, and so tragically may have had that hope thwarted today," the governor said. "But there still is an American dream, and all of us who are Americans will try to heal this very, very deep wound in the city of Binghamton."

Center officials issued a statement Friday night saying they were "stricken with grief about today's horrific assault and share this grief with the victims' families, our community and the entire nation."

The suspected gunman carried ID with the name of 42-year-old Jiverly Voong, of nearby Johnson City, N.Y., but that was believed to be an alias, said a law enforcement official, speaking on condition of anonymity.

A second law enforcement official, also speaking on condition of anonymity, said the two handguns were registered to Jiverly Wong, another name the man used. Both officials were not authorized to speak publicly.

Initial reports suggested Voong had recently been let go from IBM. But a person at IBM said there was no record of a Jiverly Voong ever working there.

The police chief would not confirm the name of the dead man with the ammunition satchel, saying authorities were still trying to establish with certainty that he was the gunman.

"We have no idea what the motive is," Zikuski said.

He said the suspected gunman "was no stranger" to the community center and may have gone there to take a class.

A woman who answered the phone at a listing for Henry D. Voong said she was Jiverly Voong's sister but would not give her name. She said her brother had been in the country for 28 years and had citizenship.

"I think there's a misunderstanding over here because I want to know, too," she said.

Friday evening, police searched Voong's house and carried out three computer hard drives, a brown canvas rifle case, a briefcase, a small suitcase and several paper bags.

Police left the Voong home shortly before 8 p.m., soon after four people arrived by car and went into the house. It wasn't clear who they were, but they promptly turned out the lights.

Crime scene tape was stretched across the street about 20 yards from the house, and a steady rain fell as two state troopers stood guard to keep anyone but neighborhood residents from entering the dead-end street.

Waiting outside a Catholic Charities office where counselors were tending to relatives of victims, Omri Yigal said his wife, Delores, was taking English lessons when the gunman attacked. He had no word on what happened to her.

He finally left the center feeling sullen shortly before 8 p.m.

"They told me they don't have much hope for me," the Filipino immigrant said before going home to wait for a telephone call.

The American Civic Association helps immigrants in the Binghamton area with citizenship, resettlement and family reunification. The shootings took place in a neighborhood of homes and small businesses in downtown Binghamton, a city of about 47,000 residents.

The Binghamton area was the home to Endicott-Johnson shoe company and the birthplace of IBM, which between them employed tens of thousands of workers before the shoe company closed a decade ago and IBM downsized in recent years.

A string of attacks in the U.S. in the last month left 44 people dead in all.

A gunman killed 10 people and himself in Samson, Ala.; shootings that began with a traffic stop in Oakland, Calif., left four police officers and the gunman dead; an apparent murder-suicide in Santa Clara, Calif., left six dead; and a gunman went on a rampage at a nursing home Sunday, killing seven elderly residents and a nurse who cared for them.


These cops (bolded text) should be severely reprimanded or even fired, they fucked up big time and did not do their jobs.