Does anyone have a home generator that is set up to run the whole house? I had a company come by and give me a price on the turn key job, and it was just over 17k to get the size Generator I would need.... I believe he said 27kilowatts...

It included :

Joe Accardo This proposal includes the following:


All required local and state taxes.
Purchase of all necessary permits.
Purchase and installation of a Guardian Home-Stand-by Generator (Model # 5639 27KW).
Purchase and installation of one RTS-E-200A3 automatic transfer switch.
Purchase and installation of generator battery.
Purchase and installation of one ground rod.
Purchase and installation of one 4’X 8’ concrete pad.
Purchase and installation of necessary electrical materials up to 20ft.
Purchase and installation of necessary gas piping materials up to 20ft.
Perform final connections, start-up and checkout of generator.


Is 27KW a big generator? I don't understand electricity and that stuff very well but he seemed to know what he was talking about.... but my buddy at work said it wasn't big enough.....

Anyone have any knowledge of this type of stuff?

27KW seems high for a house, but I don't know what sort of specs he's required to meet on that versus the actual draw of your house, that is within the realm of possibility if you have lots of outdoor lightning, an active AC, electric stove, etc.

A good way to tell is to look at your electric bill. Take the number of kilowatt hours you racked up last month, divide that by the hours in the period, and you have your average power need. Keep in mind that it varies widely from that and you will need 5-10x that much stated power in the generator; Also, the stated power of the generator is probably based on a purely resistive load that is not realistic for your house, so it's actually more like a 20KW generator in practice.

Might be useful for running a hydroponic system off the grid....:eek:

I can't help but wonder what you need a generator that size for? Do you lose power *that* much? Even when you do, there's no need to keep outdoor lighting and even indoor lighting going since it's probably only for ~24 hours at most.

Probably still some residual PTSD from Katrina Kel. saw this alot in FLA. after the 04 pounding the state took. was a boom business for sure. funny now that people are all set for even a minor outage no storms have come anywhere near.

To echo what Kelraz was saying take a long look at just how much you really need. could you do just as well with a small portable genset that you use selectively a couple hours a day to keep the food in the fridge/freezer cold.
you most likely already have a gas BBQ. get a coleman propane stove and a old fashioned percolater coffee pot and your set. candles and hurricane lanterns ftw.

Keep in mind this could also be a good way to teach your boys how to roll with the punches and deal with adversity.
If your dead set on keeping the home running at 110% during an outage there are a few things on that list you could do yourself and save a lot of money.

I can't help but wonder what you need a generator that size for? Do you lose power *that* much? Even when you do, there's no need to keep outdoor lighting and even indoor lighting going since it's probably only for ~24 hours at most.

Unless the zombies attack.....:eek:

I want to run my whole house as if the power was not out... in general, I usually kick myself for not going the whole 9 yards after the fact....

I have 3 AC units and electric stove and washer/dryer.....

If the price were 10k I would not even blink an eye and do it.... but 17k is a little more than I'm comfortable with.

The problem with the portable generator was getting fuel to run it and worrying about my wife trying to handle it when I had to go into work.

The guy who came out actually owns the company and he "knew" the 27k would run it but he didn't actually hook anything up or measure anything with some cool electric determining device..... seems like he should have.

He even said with the 27k gen i could keep my pool pump running with no problem.....

That $17,000 is only scratching the surface since you also need fuel to run the thing. You're looking at blowing through 3-4 gallons an hour, never mind that you either need either a gas line run to your house, which may also not work during a power outage or a gas tank on your property, which can be kinda scary.

I've got a friend who just built a house and put 10 solar panels on the roof. In New Jersey (where he lives) he can sell energy back into the grid and get credits and thus far hasn't spent a dime on energy since the install. He expects in high demand periods during the summer he'll probably pay a little bit, but in the end its a far more cost effective method than installing a generator of that magnitude.

$17,000 worth of solar panels and energy efficiency improvements into your house could get it close to energy neutral, knocking out your energy bill most months eventually paying for the panels. A backup smaller generator for the fridge and stuff could augment the system in high demand yet cloudy days (if its cloudy, its not nearly as hot that you'd require air conditioning and a pool pump, but what the hell)

VS

$17,000 for a generator system you will use rarely at the cost of $10 - $15 per hour and the hazard of having a giant gas tank on your property

I already have natural gas at the house... but I will check into solar panels and see what it would cost and if it is worth it......

Solar panels and generators don't really aim to solve the same problem, do they?

Solar panels and generators don't really aim to solve the same problem, do they?

They do. They both generate energy off the grid.

If you can make your house energy neutral or better, you don't need a generator. Plus in Louisiana 50% of the cost of the install is tax deductible via refund (if your taxes aren't that much, you get cash back) through the Louisiana Solar Tax Credit program, making that $17,000 project now effectively $8,500. There's a federal tax credit too for ~$2,000 which stacks on top of that as well. So you spend $6,500 after the tax rebates and get yourself enough panels to power your house instead of $17,000 ... and you spend $500 on small gas powered generator should it be 100 degrees outside AND somehow magically cloudy AND your external power fails. OR you spend $17,000 after the tax credits and buy enough panels to power your house and your neighbors and keep your batteries all topped off.

They do. They both generate energy off the grid.

Sure, in the same way that a life insurance policy and a savings account are both ways to make money "off the grid". Talking about cost averages misses the point of what a backup generator is for.

100 degrees outside AND somehow magically cloudy AND your external power fails

Yes, that would never happen in Louisiana. :rolleyes:

Sure, in the same way that a life insurance policy and a savings account are both ways to make money "off the grid". Talking about cost averages misses the point of what a backup generator is for.

Yes, that would never happen in Louisiana. :rolleyes:

You seem to have no clue what you are talking about. You forgot about batteries, for one. Is it worth it to spend $17,000 for the once in a lifetime point when you would have 100+ temperatures with sunless skies and no external power for a week's duration? I wouldn't think so.
Is it worth it to spend $17,000 once on essentially free energy for life? Yeah, probably. Add a $500 generator for the one perfect storm of no power, no sun, and record temperatures - or even better, spend $1,500 on a week at the beach.

I want to run my whole house as if the power was not out... in general, I usually kick myself for not going the whole 9 yards after the fact....


The problem with the portable generator was getting fuel to run it and worrying about my wife trying to handle it when I had to go into work.

The guy who came out actually owns the company and he "knew" the 27k would run it but he didn't actually hook anything up or measure anything with some cool electric determining device..... seems like he should have.

He even said with the 27k gen i could keep my pool pump running with no problem.....

I would expect the 27KW generator to handle 3 ACs and a pool. Just Scientific Wild Guessing I'd say you're probably around 8KW of nominal load at peak, but due to start-up inefficiency you'll need at least twice that to avoid trips.

Portable generators are expensive for any non-trivial application, unfortunately (they also solve a totally different need than solar panels, although if you're doing substantial rewiring anyway the solar panels may help offset the longterm cost).

Another thing to keep in mind is that in addition to needing a decent size diesel tank to run that, you'll need to cycle the fuel periodically by running it at least an hour or so every month. Fortunately there really isn't much for your wife to do, most of the systems are rigged with a loop circuit from the mains that will detect a voltage drop and automatically switch itself on with batteries to cover the house until it does.

You forgot about batteries, for one. Is it worth it to spend $17,000 for the once in a lifetime point when you would have 100+ temperatures with sunless skies and no external power for a week's duration? I wouldn't think so.

Wait. Are you claiming that a run-of-the-mill solar system's night batteries will run a full house, including A/C, for a week?

Like I said earlier, my friend has had his system for nearly a year and has had his meter turn backwards since the time he installed it. He doesn't have a pool pump, but he also doesn't live in Louisiana and have nearly the same tax incentives to put in a great system.

That's great, but has nothing to do with anything we're talking about.

Sure it does. He wants energy in case of a power failure, period. So why pay $17,000 on something you'll maybe never use? Especially when the government would give him another $14,500 worth of free energy efficient equipment to power his house year round with solar power. (Another $12,500 if you install a geothermal air conditioning system)

Hell, the generator would be tied to the natural gas supply of the local utilities that in a storm like Katrina could be interrupted anyway.

Tied to a geothermal air conditioner unit (which is a hell of a lot more energy efficient than geothermal heating since it just adds air from outside to bring the 54°F temperature from the earth up to a comfortable temperature) which also has its own share of Louisiana and Federal tax credits, he'd pay a lot less initially and have dramatically lower energy bills to boot AND should the system not be strong enough to run his house indefinitely in case of a nuclear cloud in the sky ... a smaller gas generator could augment the power supply in those once in a lifetime circumstances.

And then the other hundreds of reasons, but let me highlight a few:
natural gas prices aren't going down
energy prices aren't going down
resale of the house won't ever recover a full $17,000 worth of generator, but could potentially return $33,500+ from the energy efficiency upgrades which would take the governments money and put it into your pocket

Bise, obviously do whatever you want - but I'd first get a quote from these guys and their competitors:
http://www.southcoastsolar.com/

Solar power is a very viable option. I would also suggest looking into it.

No one is arguing that a home solar installation isn't a good idea, particularly with incentives out there now, but he wants an emergency generator for when the power goes out. Solar is not reliable generation, much less in a hurricane. A smaller gas generator may NOT be enough to run his house; I suspect that he'd still need a 10-15KW generator with all associated costs and fuel storage.

We can all read the "Go Green!" pamphlet on our own. He also may not be allowed to put panels on his house by local law.

The longest duration hurricane was 24 hours, Hurricane Frances. A day is a trivial run on a battery, many can handle a week or two of heavy cloud cover - though I doubt that it is even meteorologically possible given the various pressure systems involved though I certainly don't know enough about weather to know for sure.

I still don't see how relying on a natural gas line is dramatically a surer thing than relying on local power, where with a solar system you at least will always have *some* power.

Solar is great. From reading my past posts, you should know that I'm a solar proponent. Its strenghts are irrelevant in an emergency though, which is what you'd buy a gas powered generator for.

If you look into it more than "my friend says it turns his meter backwards", you'll find it's not so simple as that in practice.

It averages out well for a lot of people because they can sell peak energy during the day while no one's home and then buy back at night when it's cheaper on the grid. However, that in no way equates to actual independence from the grid.

When I was looking at solar panels for this house last year, I found that most people in hot areas couldn't even keep two A/C units running overnight after a sunny day, much less for days. Bise has three to run.

I dunno what his property looks like, but if he has a lot of land a geothermal central air system is easy to install (they only go down like 8" if you have plenty of room to run the tubes, otherwise they need to drill a few wells which can cost more). Under that system he's never cooling his house down - he's always heating it up from 58 degrees with outside air ... a lot easier in a hot state like Louisiana where there is no real winters. The two in conjunction with each other and some decent windows and attic insulation could equate to that backwards spinning meter during the day and a full battery through the night.

I understand the emergency aspect of it, but natural gas service could just as easily be interrupted in any scenario where you are without power for a few days. You can stretch your batteries out significantly by only turning on the bare bones appliances and lights (not counting your geo-thermal heat pump which is keeping your house nice and cool the entire time at a nominal energy cost) and you'll at least have SOME power indefinitely (except for clouds from some nuclear holocaust, where we have other things to worry about anyway) where if the natural gas is interrupted you have none.

A day is a trivial run on a battery, many can handle a week or two of heavy cloud cover - though I doubt that it is even meteorologically possible given the various pressure systems involved though I certainly don't know enough about weather to know for sure.



We just had 2 weeks of constant rain here in the Southeast. While not normal, it apparently does happen.

Yeah, I meant post-hurricane its probably not possible. Generally after a hurricane hits you have a few days of cloudless skies. I should have phrased that better. I've seen weeks of cloud cover here too, but never any storms powerful enough to make me lose power for the duration as well as no clear skies.

I understand the emergency aspect of it, but natural gas service could just as easily be interrupted in any scenario where you are without power for a few days. You can stretch your batteries out significantly by only turning on the bare bones appliances and lights (not counting your geo-thermal heat pump which is keeping your house nice and cool the entire time at a nominal energy cost) and you'll at least have SOME power indefinitely (except for clouds from some nuclear holocaust, where we have other things to worry about anyway) where if the natural gas is interrupted you have none.

So, in a hurricane, you think it's more likely that underground gas pipes will be damaged than the solar panels on top of a roof? Interesting theory.

If your house gets hit by a hurricane directly, your generator outside could just as easily get damaged as the panels on your roof.

If the hurricane hits your town, or the towns nearby, the gas supply could be impeded while the solar panels would be just fine.

Unsurprisingly, the natural gas distribution network is quite sturdy. If you think they're that vulnerable to a system-wide outages, you've been watching too much 24. It's silly to suggest that underground gas lines and a hardened facility are more risky than glass panels on your roof.

If you're really that worried about the gas lines, you can always get an external tank (situated safely away from your house or underground) good for hundreds of hours. I hear backup Suns are harder to obtain.

I hear backup Suns are harder to obtain.

You don't watch enough Eureka.....

"Here Come the Suns" 16 September 2008 It's Election Day in Eureka, but voting is the least of the town's concerns when an artificial sun threatens to go supernova.

And I think I found Bise!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090525/ap_on_re_us/us_economic_survivalists;_ylt=ArRRBLUjCBIu_fzF9f4R pN0DW7oF?wwparam=1243355866

Now I have to change my identity yet again ! darn you Sixee!