No doctor available? No problem! Go to the next town...

http://www.canada.com/components/print.aspx?id=bd7f6fd5-f4d1-4573-b298-305828f961b6&k=15068

As Dany waited for an ambulance to take him there, with the pain in his side growing unbearable, he was confused about why he had to go so far for what he thought was a simple surgery...

When he got to the hospital, there was no sign of his son — who didn't show up for another hour and a half because paramedics took a wrong turn on the highway.

"I could hear them asking directions to people outside because they didn't know where they were," Dany said.

Once the paramedics had found their way, they then mistakenly unloaded their patient at the Montreal Children's Hospital before they finally delivered him to the Montreal General Hospital 15 minutes after midnight...

What's worse, he added, is that Dany developed peritonitis, an inflammation that, if untreated, can be life-threatening, as it stops the normal movement of the intestines.

It was his father's biggest worry. "That's all we hear in the news nowadays: Somebody gets appendicitis, they get sent home by a hospital and then they get peritonitis and die.

All I hear about is Iraq in our news. Well, until recently anyway.

Paramedics took a wrong turn? Goodness, what a powerful indictment against health care for all citizens.

Umm yeah, how exactly does this have anything to do with a gov't healthcare program? People make mistakes, but I fail to see how this reflects on gov't healthcare :)

And it is not even the US government Akipt is talking about, hehe.

I think Akipt had too many Long Island Ice Teas tonight and was looking for something to crow about. Get some sleep, buddy. :p

Akipt,

Let me tell you a story about the current healthcare system in the USA.

My recent heart problems are considered a pre-existing condition by insurance companies, so they won't cover any treatment that has the slightest relationship to my heart. So I am left with having to self pay for treatments.

See if you can guess what 7 days in ICU and 3 weeks in a private room cost at a hospital, and don't forget the many tests, consultations and other little things like piccs lines, ultra sounds for blood clots, CAT scans, implanted defribulator, surgery to implant the difribulator etc.. and NO insurance company will cover two cents of it.

Now, while I was in ICU I coded and that costs extra, it costs money to see the light.

Now comes my medication, one of the pills I take is Coreg, insurance says they will pay for the medication BUT only for half of it, because they disagree with the internal medicine specialists and cardiologists.

The Dr's tell me I'm lucky I have the money to self pay and I will actually get better care than I would if I had insurance coverage, because the Doctors are not limited to treat me based on some insurance manual.

Our current healthcare system stinks, even Doctors agree that it does and many would like to see universal healthcare.

No offense as you may have had some financial difficulties but don't conditions only become pre-existing if you lapse on healthcare covverage?

No offense as you may have had some financial difficulties but don't conditions only become pre-existing if you lapse on healthcare coverage?

2001-2002 were not good years for business but I had coverage.

One can lose coverage due to a lapse based on financial issues or if they drop you because they deem you are un-profitable. But thanks for strengthening my point that the current healthcare system is not availabe to everyone.

BTW..health coverage for my family of six costs over $14000.00 per year.

Wow, reading comprehension low this morning.

The primary beef for the article is a lack of doctors in the city. Lack, as in zero, to do a common operation. And it's apparently in the news enough to be a "big worry" due to the presumed multiple deaths caused by this shortage of doctors there.

The lost ambulance is just another side effect.

And sorry Rover for your problems, but looking at the UK's, Canada's, or even world-renowned Cuban universal healthcare? Does nothing to convince me that their systems need to be emulated.

Oh and Rover, I submit that the cost of universal healthcare in the future would cost you substantially more than $14k / year in taxes... for less quality.

A couple things.

Canada, by nature, isnt like the US, and a town like Wakefield, which is 25 minutes north of Ottawa, seems to be a small, pretty secluded town.

A nation of Canada's size, with only 30 million people, less than 10% of the US, tends to have problems of this nature. Towns like Wakefield are surrounded by vast stretches of nothing. The lack of doctors is more indicative of these issues than of problems with Canadian health care.

And secondly..while yes.. an American hospital, run for profit would never turn away a patient needing an expensive operation, there are other side effects to this reality as a result of dangerous overcrowding and under staffing that occur on a daily basis in the US.

Oh and Rover, I submit that the cost of universal healthcare in the future would cost you substantially more than $14k / year in taxes... for less quality.

How do you know? Is it because the insurance companies and their "paid off" congressmen and senators say so?

How do you know the care would be less quality than it is now?

Doctors and hospitals are currently limited in the procedures they can perform, if they aren't profitable they aren't covered. Healthcare for profit is a terrible thing.

Back in the '90s when Hillary and Bill wanted to implement some type of universal coverage we were bombarded with ads saying that if we went that way we would see costs rise at an alarming rate, that people with "guidebooks" would be telling the doctors what procedures they could perform.

And now take a look....we have had costs rise at an alarming rate, we have people with "guidebooks" teling doctors what procedures they can perform, we see a drastic increase in bankruptcy filings due to healthcare costs, we see businesses no longer offering healthcare coverage as a benefit because of the exhorbitant cost.

If you have ever been in the military and gone to a simple visit to sickbay or all the way to a hospital stay you have experienced a form of universal government healthcare and you know what...it was pretty damn good.

I fucking hate American politics.

Healthcare, abortion, global warming. GET SOME INDEPENDENT THOUGHT! You don't like these things because your party tells you not to. Your party sets an agenda, and you regurgitate this bullshit like the puppet they want you to be.

When is the last time you debated an issue that wasn't a talking points memo on Bill O'Reilly?

If you have ever been in the military and gone to a simple visit to sickbay or all the way to a hospital stay you have experienced a form of universal government healthcare and you know what...it was pretty damn good.



I am sorry but military healthcare sucks. I only get excited if I get sent to an outside civllian provider only then do I usually get results.

I am sorry but military healthcare sucks. I only get excited if I get sent to an outside civllian provider only then do I usually get results.

I always found it top notch, but maybe it was the time I was in. I never had a bad experience with it from the corpsmen to the doctors.

They were all very professional, compassionate and knowledgable.

I am sorry but military healthcare sucks.

The left side of my face was crushed (cheekbone and eye socket) when a jeep landed on top of me. While the broken bones shredded the nerves and muscles, including the optic nerve which left me legally blind in the left eye, the only visible sign of damage is a scar along the bottom of the left eye which looks like a bag under the eye, and a small scar on the left side of the eye that makes me look like a former boxer. The health care I received was top notch, using mostly wiring and plastic implants, which was cutting edge at the time.

Military health care in the Viet Nam era was made up of professionals (nurses and doctors) who wanted to do what they could to make a difference; I know it sounds cliche but it was what I heard from each and everyone I spoke with from the 249th Air Force Evac hospital in Japan to the staff at Fitzimmons Army Hospital in Colorado.

Times and motivations change, but I believe there will always be enough health care folks who truly want to help heal that they will be able to impact the system, at least in some small ways that we outside the system will not even recognize. Yes, I am optimistic.

I am optimistic too but from all the time I have spent in the military healthcare system and still do on a regular basis I have found it wanting. The doctors seem more concerned about getting out of work for the day than they do about actually treating someone. Yes, It may have been different during the Vietnam era or maybe its just the doctors I have seen, but right now I would rather be seen at a civilian doctor than a military one. Too bad I am forced to see a military doctor.

Heh.

Go to any hospital in America.. the Surgeons will schedule as many surgeries as they can on the same day to free up time for themselves for whatever personal reason.

How do you think that 8th hip replacement patient feels with the gauze sewn up in him with his less that quality work and a gauze sewn up in him?

>>How do you think that 8th hip replacement patient feels with the gauze sewn up in him with his less that quality work and a gauze sewn up in him?<<


Probably estatic. Now they get to sue for a billion dollars.

Probably estatic. Now they get to sue for a billion dollars.

Hence the reason most doctors are getting out of the practice....
They can't afford the malpractice insurance.....

I thought law suit limits were capped, Protecting Dr's and insurance companies from multi million dollar judgements. Or is it just like this in Texas ?

You can find good and bad doctors in any system, but what I find hilarious is that despite our healthcare system already having all the supposed problems with a state-supported one, it's still evil and never once has their been a debate on the actual nature of the hypothetical system in question. We already state-subsidize medical industries, however virtually none of those subsidies are tangibly beneficial to people who don't have employer-sponsored heathcare plans, and even those of us that do rarely see most of what we already get taxed; what's more a lot of the money in question goes directly against benefitting citizens by protecting pharmaceutical monopolies and barely any of it goes into research of universally serious problems like communicable disease (hi MDR and XDR staph and TB, we'll be seeing a whole LOT of you in about 20 years).

I thought law suit limits were capped, Protecting Dr's and insurance companies from multi million dollar judgements. Or is it just like this in Texas ?

It's not in every state. And usually the malpractice insurance is expensive but within reach of the speciality in question (ie usually docs can afford it).

What is really hurting the docs is lower reimbursment.

What is really hurting the system is docs ordering that extra test *just in case*, playing defensive medicine. I can't blame them.

What is really hurting the patient is (as someone pointed out earlier) someone with a flow chart (without an MD I might add) dictating how the docs practice medicine.

I don't have the answers. I just see the problems.

It's all the doctor's and health plan's fault. Riiiiight.

I'm sure it has nothing to do with the pregnant mother who schedules a C-section out of convenience, has multiple Ultrasounds taken during her pregnancy, and then brings her child into the ER for every cough, sniffle, and wet diaper.

No, heaven forbid the public in this country turn the microscope on themselves and shoulder some of the responsibilty for sky-rocketing health care costs.

Mandate health care insurance and pro-rate it for those in need with a benefit set that gives appropriate coverage. Increase the risk pool so that premiums can be adjusted downward and perhaps we can see some long term change.

Health care is a privelage, not a right, but it is a privelage we can and should all enjoy in this country. It is just going to take all of us.

I am sorry but military healthcare sucks. I only get excited if I get sent to an outside civllian provider only then do I usually get results.

I found my experiences to very pleasant while in the military. I had two surgeries by Army docs; my biggest issue was with the PAs sickcall who thought I was faking while I was turning yellow from my gall stones that had leeked out and blocked the drains to my kidenys and liver. It was pleasurable for me when the major who did my surgery picked up the phone from my room and called the butter bar PA and chewed his ass up one side and down the other. That is my only bad experience with military healthcare. I could be slightly biased though as I worked at the WACH after my military obligation and continue to work in healthcare.

It's all the doctor's and health plan's fault. Riiiiight.

I'm sure it has nothing to do with the pregnant mother who schedules a C-section out of convenience, has multiple Ultrasounds taken during her pregnancy, and then brings her child into the ER for every cough, sniffle, and wet diaper.

No, heaven forbid the public in this country turn the microscope on themselves and shoulder some of the responsibilty for sky-rocketing health care costs.

Mandate health care insurance and pro-rate it for those in need with a benefit set that gives appropriate coverage. Increase the risk pool so that premiums can be adjusted downward and perhaps we can see some long term change.

Health care is a privelage, not a right, but it is a privelage we can and should all enjoy in this country. It is just going to take all of us.


It might be partially due to what you wrote, but it has more to do with a "for profit" middleman that never used to exist in our healthcare system. Don't forget that every year the middleman has to show a bigger profit than the year before and that is done by either cutting care or raising prices...it's a pretty simple formula...add a layer and the price increases or the service goes down to keep the price the same.

Well, that's assuming a fixed or decreasing number of customers.

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/trackandfield/news/story?id=3076951

So an ambulance got lost in the US Akipt. What's that say about the US' medical system? Of course, I'm sure you will say it's an isolated incident, but why isn't that an acceptable explanation for you when discussing Canada's health care system?

how my government run healthcare is working out for me? better than your piece of shit system is working out for you, you retard.

I have a great health plan.
I choose my own doctors, dentists, specialists, pharmacies. I have a comically low 5 dollar co-pay
BC/BS Motherfuckers 4lyfe... booya! (seriously, unless they change it, and they probably will in a future contract, Health care for me and my family for the rest of my life!)

Id rather cut my dick off than go into an HMO though.. those things fucking suck. Also many Americans do not have insurance. The reason that hospital rates are so high and health care is unaffordable is that the cost of people who dont pay for services is passed on to those who do.

So nothing can be done. And the situation as we have spirals as more and more unmovable debt is piled up, or a solution can be found that brings all Americans into some sort of health plan. The point of Insurance is that it works the best the more the risk is shared.

The creating of a system where all Americans are paying into the system is just common sense. Would all plans be equal? No, of course not and businesses would still have to give their employees the same level of care that they are doing now. Its just Millions of Americans who had no plan or in jobs where health care isnt an option would now be pooled together to share the risk and lower the cost for all of us. The end result is everyone gets better healthcare.

The right wing reaction to an overhaul of health care is so stupidly knee jerk. "OMG THE LIBRULS WANT THIS AND SINCE THEY ARE TEH EVIL, I MUST OPPOSE IT!!!"

Its so stupid.

I just see it as a mess the thought of goverment run care. If I make over 38k a year I dont qualify for or get limited treatment since Im considered over the median income for example. Who knows what that number will be.


When I was younger I got ran over by a ski boat, all the nuerologists where on strike in my hometown. There was 5 of them rotating to be on call for the city, They refused to treat me and other trauma cases that weekend since they wanted 250k a year for there contract with the city outside of what they made in there private practices. I can understand there point I remember reading the day prior in the paper If spent all that time in school Id want more also. Not to mention the liabilty

I ended up having to be driven by ambulance over 100 miles away to get treatment cause the Dr. wouldnt come in. Thankfully it turned out ok for me, but I was pretty pissed about it and so was the ER staff at the time.

I just look at the issues with SSN and forsee increase over increase in fed tax to subsidise the costs and sub par performance.

Wiggo if I got hurt in your country would I have to pay full medical costs ?

Wiggo if I got hurt in your country would I have to pay full medical costs ?



One way or another you would, most likely through steep taxes. I forget what country Wiggo is in as well, but rest assured there country isn't dealing with 300 million people, probably not even a fraction of that.

yes, you would, since youre not a part of EU/EES and have no other agreement that im aware of with sweden.

And how long do you have to wait for life threatening proceedures, Wiggo?
While "Healthcare Coverage for all" seems to work pretty good for small population countries, The U.S. has over 200 Million people to try and cover....
Anyone come up with a comprehensive plan that covers all Americans that won't cost me half of my paycheck in taxes? I'm all ready paying taxes on 22% of what I earn....

Anyone come up with a comprehensive plan that covers all Americans that won't cost me half of my paycheck in taxes?

Yes, Mitt Romney in Massachusetts:

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110008213

Last I heard they couldn't settle on a base benefit set but on paper, this is the best laid out plan to fix health care in my lifetime.

Looks like a good plan.
I'm all for it, if it can be applied on a national level.
This looks like it works best, if the states are in control of what happens, however.
Remember, the Federal Government never does anything quickly, nor effeciently...

Sixee, you are aware that the US pays much more per capita than any other industrialized country, while pretty much being the only one not using socialized healthcare? this includes such 'small population countries' as france, germany, UK, etc.

obviously, there are no waiting times for life threatening procedures.

MA's health care system is a product of a multitude of factors not easily transferable to the rest of the nation. Romney's original plan was much stingier, but -- once expanded upon by the Democratic House and Senate -- achieved passage. Not surprisingly, Romney credits himself with the health care reform for the purpose of supporting his candidacy, but he doesn't have much (http://www.mittromney.com/Issue-Watch/Health_Care) to offer in terms of health care policy for the nation:The health of our nation can be improved by extending health insurance to all Americans, not through a government program or new taxes, but through market reforms.That's it, other than a video with a minute or so of saying, I did it in MA so can do it for the country. Easier said than done.