At first, I thought it was just bad luck. But then when it happened again, I really had to wonder whats going on. Where did I go wrong?

First there was Ellen. Very attractive, a bit flirtatious, and one of my co-workers. I somehow managed to talk her into hanging out with me outside of work. Taco Bell for lunch one day, and then she came to a small little gathering at my place another day that week. There we were, alone on the couch, watching Office Space. The lights were out, the mood was set, and yet ... nada. At the end of the night there was a hug goodbye. The weeks that followed I kept dropping hints we should hang out again, and they got pleasant and friendly responses but nothing came of it.

It wouldn't be until tonight, when a girl who threw her phone number at me a week ago, that I began to doubt. We spent the entire evening together, we went to dinner at 7 (a very quaint pizza place) and then bowling at an upper class bar/bowling alley (Strike Bethesda if you've heard of it) and then after a flirtatious bet, where I lost and had to pick what we'd do next, we went back to her place to be alone in her house to watch a movie (in her room). So why is it now 5 am, and I've returned home, and not even a kiss.

I'm trying to think back, could she possibly just wanted to hang out as friends? Do girls just say "hey, call me and we should hang out", joke around a lot "hey, I'm wearing the good underwear tonight don't let me down", and then make you stay at their house until 5 in the morning watching TV, but not be interested?

No need to reply to this. As all of the other intimate details of my life its much easier to post them on a public message board than to go head to head and discuss in person with my roomates, how dare I shatter the legend of 86. But if you do have a few kind words, or whatever :) I almost wonder if maybe the reason I'm far less successful now is that my standards have shifted greatly, though I've never really noticed. Or did I just become a jackass overnight and not realize it? Or am I just really drunk right now and probably shouldn't be posting anything anyway?

Dude, grow some balls!

(Most)Chicks like it when you are aggressive and persue them. If you seem like you are not interested in them, they are gonna think you are gay or something.

Play the alpha male next time, see how that works out for you.

What Dart said Shew... er Kelraz.

Make the 1st step. (Bigger than "Watching TV together" if you see what I mean)

Or am I just really drunk right now

Ok, I see what the problem is.

Kelraz,

From what you write here you show that you are a woman-man. Be a man's man.

She might want more from you but you are not showing it or doing it. What, are you expecting her to kiss you?

The next time you see her, lay a big fat kiss on here and after you are done, say, let go. Then turn around and start walking out, she will follow like she was on /autofollow. Put your drum and your epic in inventory so she doesn't start running around in circles and gets lost.

Act like it was nothing and she will be thinking, "Wow what's got into him? I don't know, but I like it" What this does is shows confidence and any woman will tell you they dig a confident man.

You are in the "Does she like me mode?" Get the hell out of their. She went out with you didn't she? She likes you get over it and move forward.

Gnore 65 Bard

Alright "dude" here's some lessons from a great teacher you should take with you.

Lesson/Rule 1: DON'T date people you work with, EVER!!! If for some reason it goes bad...YOU'RE screwed. She will more than likely go to management and mention that you are harassing her...

Lesson/Rule 2: If this was a "sanctioned" person to date. Don't ever do lunch dates. They aren't dates. They are meetings. Especially a bad thing if you are paying. Dates happen at night with the preconceived notion that you are going to get some. This leads to Lesson 3

Lesson/Rule 3: If you have been out on 3 dates with a "chick" and she hasn't put out yet...Dump That Bitch (DTB).


"Dude" you need to listen to the Tom Leykis show. I don't know if you get it where you live. If not you need to come to the West coast and listen to it for a week or so. Especially on Thursdays when he dons his teacher's cap and becomes Professor Tom. He will teach you all about "getting some" and even more about what kind of woman/girl/chick/broad to avoid.

As Tom would say...stop with the MEOW and grab your nutsack and tell her where it's at. Christ man (used loosely) get in the game. If you like her tell her....of course I wouldn't break Lesson/Rule 1.

If you were there until 5am, well, yeah, you should be a bit more aggressive. Worst that can happen is she says no.

But really. You struck out twice. No big deal, really. Do you expect to score with 100% of the women you go to lunch with?

Did you make any moves bro? Staying at a woman's house till 5am obviously means that she wanted something and if you didn't tap that booty...you ain't putting out.

Make a move, like the above post said the worse they can do is back away. Then you know she didn't want to do anything. Hints and all the eye batting ain't nothing, these day womans want aggressive yet restrained men.

Step to the plate next time Kel, you will get some :P

Alright "dude" here's some lessons from a great teacher you should take with you.

Lesson/Rule 1: DON'T date people you work with, EVER!!! If for some reason it goes bad...YOU'RE screwed. She will more than likely go to management and mention that you are harassing her...

Lesson/Rule 2: If this was a "sanctioned" person to date. Don't ever do lunch dates. They aren't dates. They are meetings. Especially a bad thing if you are paying. Dates happen at night with the preconceived notion that you are going to get some. This leads to Lesson 3

Lesson/Rule 3: If you have been out on 3 dates with a "chick" and she hasn't put out yet...Dump That Bitch (DTB).


"Dude" you need to listen to the Tom Leykis show. I don't know if you get it where you live. If not you need to come to the West coast and listen to it for a week or so. Especially on Thursdays when he dons his teacher's cap and becomes Professor Tom. He will teach you all about "getting some" and even more about what kind of woman/girl/chick/broad to avoid.

As Tom would say...stop with the MEOW and grab your nutsack and tell her where it's at. Christ man (used loosely) get in the game. If you like her tell her....of course I wouldn't break Lesson/Rule 1.



Tom Leykis is soooooooo right. www.blowmeuptom.com Kelraz.. be a man for christs sake :( Catch her off guard with a toe curling kiss, you'll win. She likes you, but shes not going to make the first move.


meow meow meow meow, meow meow meow meow, meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow.

So...on a side note. Is Strike Bethesda near UA in downtown Bethesda? Sorry, not many ARo'ers live near me. :/

Sounds like from what you've described that you had atleast a few openings with the second girl. For one thing, if it was a "flirtatious bet," then you probably could have atleast had a shot right there. Not sure how you didn't at the very least get a kiss off a girl who jokingly mentioned you seeing her panties. Did you actually get rejected at any point? It doesn't really sound like you went after either of them.

What Dart said Shew... er Kelraz.

Get it right dude... Kelraz is the relationship guy, I'm the any slut that walks guy.

Also don't forget alcohol, the more she has the better you'll look.

UA? Do you mean American University?

Strike Bethesda is over on ... I dunno, its just off of River Road in ... you guessed it, Bethesda Maryland :)

Do you expect to score with 100% of the women you go to lunch with?

Yes :(

I guess maybe you guys are right ... I didn't really make much of a "move" so to speak on either of them, or if I did I forget.

Or thinking back, the biggest problem could have been that both girls know I'm dating two other girls ... both girls have seen me together with Tasha, the one I've been dating the longest ... and both girls have heard a good chunk of my past. I mean, 86 isn't just a number in my household, its a huge fucking sign over my door. That being said, I'm not gonna give up hope ... I'll definately call Kate again and see what happens. As she put it as I walked out the door ... "you can call me"

Tell her you play a high level bard in an uber guild in an online video game. That always gets the chicks wet, for me at least.

Master Damoiel Mindbend
Retired Enchanter of the 60th Season

if you lost a bet to a female, and the penalty was to go watch a movie at her place until 5am... she definitely was interested in a lot more than the content of the movie. It was up to you to take initiative.

Its a mistake I myself make a whole whole lot because I rarely ever make moves on women because I never want to go somewhere I am not welcome. I live by the moto that if a woman is interested in me, she will let me know. Well, that girl let you know by taking you to her house and watching some movie until 5am. Make a more not-so-subtle move next time.

I live by the moto that if a woman is interested in me, she will let me know.

I live by that motto as well, but there are nights where I've ended up spankin the monkey instead getting some because I didn't have the balls to make the first move which a lot of women like... but then again, girls throw out so many mixed signals that it's best to just marry/go out with an ugly girl and cheat on her, because once girls smell marked territory they go after it like a shark on blood.

Always go in with the attitude of "If your not digg'n muh cock who cares 'casue there's is always another bitch who will." That self confident attitude works far more then it fails. Even if you don't nail her that night the idea is to make her call you for dates. Let them know your interested in seeing 'em again but force her to make the move. If she does call you then you know you have a chick you can do what ever you want to. And if she doesn't then to hell with her. There will be another where that came from. Never call her. We all have our moments of self doubt. Pick you self and your balls up off the ground and get back to work like the man you are supposed to be and make the move.

So basically today she was on AOL, a lil synopsys of the conversation ...

Started out asking her when we were hanging out next, made some plans for her to cook dinner (me clean), then ice skating on the national mall, then watching Waiting for Guffman at my place.
Then she brought up the number 86, which I then turned around to ask her why there wasn't a number 87.
Her reply, I didn't try.

GAAAAHHHH! See! Ya putzed out! the question is now will she let you try again. She knows you now as a shy guy. YOU MUST REDEEM your self. Cornhole her like the slut she is! When you ram her give out a yell for us all.

All these male views. How about a female view here.

The first girl was only looking at being friends, and good that way. It's a bad thing indeed to date with thoughts of a relationship a co-worker.

The second one, well you blew it. She threw you all the signs. A girl, well most girls, won't come straight out and tell you they want you in a sexual manner. They believe it's the male role to instigate that.

Now, as for some of these other suggestions. Push too hard and you'll get slapped. Women are like fine wine? Nope, we're like various different types of liquor. Some like the bold move, others find it offensive. Some want a gentleman, others a wild, raunchy animal.

The trick is to know the signs, watch for them and act appropriately. When you don't, you aggravate the woman. Yes, we think men are suppose to be mind readers. hehehehee.

Treat a girl like a slut, and she'll be a slut. It's really that simple.

Leafy

Women are evil, rotten horrible people straight to the core.

Like those damn dirty Christians! Rarr!

Like the other said really. Grow some testicles and make a bold move.

Worse that happens is you cop a feel and get the ball started earlier in the relationship then you're used to, or you get slapped, either way you still got the feel and you know exactly where you stand. Crass I know, but I was the nice guy and did this, and I know that's exactly how you gots to do it now.

I don't know about the rest of you, but if I suddenly woke up with more testicles than I had before, I'd be somewhat concerned.

LOL Roliel :)

My problem is I've never been the "make the first move" guy, like I think Immort said, I never want to go somewhere that would make the girl uncomfortable and the thought of making an unwanted advance kinda bothers me.

I talked more with Kate, Kate is the kinda girl that well ... I'd be even more afraid of being too forward with. Very sarcastic, and ... well she has a M-16. The whole being in the army thing is pretty intimidating so jumping on her when I know she could kick my ass twice is scary :)

Turns out yeah, she was a bit intimidated by my past, but after getting to know me (the real nice me, woo woo!) she'd be happy to go out with me again ... and we'll take it from there. I'll keep you all updated, though you really don't care! Glad I can serve to amuse some of you, once I get my webcams online you can even watch my horrible attempts at picking up girls live!

Here's the thing Chad, you're asking the wrong fucking people about the wrong fucking topic. Don't ask the people you play EverQuest with for relationship advice, believe me I know. Biggi will cry like a little girl and get all bitter since he hasn't seen any naked women since his local video store closed down.

I'll tell you something right now, this won't be the last time you go through shit like this... one thing I learned is that there is NO RIGHT WAY to please every girl. You really just need to play things out and try not to plan it so much because you'll either be disappointed or confused when things don't work out the way you want, even though it's not always a bad thing. Ok time to kill this hangover... WEEEEEEEEEEEe

:rollin

wow I've heard of web cams for peep shows, and crap like that, but loser cam is new to me :rollin

Making the first move is required at some points, you may not be that kind of person, but what if she isn't that kind of girl either? You end up with watching movies and what not until 5 and going home with not even a kiss.

Since you're slow, try this.

Work a good hug in and a kiss on the check and if you feel comfortable after that and she wants a second date, that date give her a kiss or something on the lips. She'll be expecting it.

well loser cam was first thign that came to mind, but it is like shew said, but just keep all advise in mind. And things only move too fast for girls = p

Women are evil, rotten horrible people straight to the core.
You sure got us pegged. /wink

Take this from a woman.

If she invites YOU over for a late night movie and she only sits nearby, she is waiting for a move on your part. Many women are under the impression if they make the first move that brands them as 'cheap' and 'easy'. That is your best clue to make the move yourself. Start slow by snuggling and making some non-sexual advances.. ticking is a good start, so is a shoulder or foot massage. This gets you in contact without the instant need for acceptance or rejection on her part. This is where she will start to give you clues if she wants more.

(Ignore boys like Liper who suggest you 'cop a feel' that will get an instant rejection or slap in the face)

If she seems to be ok with casual touching you can move in for the kiss. This is where you will make or break the date (get laid). If she responds to your kiss you can deepen it, start working your hands to other areas, her face and waist are a good start.. then go from there. You are not a virgin, go for it~!

Or, just bring a gun.

Or, just bring a gun.
I think Kelraz needs to just use the gun on himself and save us all the pain of watching these train wreck threads he makes.

A lot of people send me tells that this amuses them, I'm glad I can inspire a bit of light on someone's lives :)
Kate and I will make out in 2 days, thats a promise!

And I did follow the quazi-natural steps ... but at one point when we were kinda cuddling she mentioned swimming through a sewer drain in basic training, and that killed the mood. Another part I was tickling her (which is often a perfect opening for kissing) and she like, nearly beat the shit out of me :)

Next week, we teach little Chad how to ride a bicycle.

Did you gouge her eyes out and skull fuck her?

Wow, I leave for a year, come back and Kelraz is no longer a virgin, and is dating like 20 different girls? What's this world coming to? hehe

<Go Kelraz>

Oh, and nice to know tickling is an intro to initiate a kiss, I never knew that, I thought dog piling was :P.

You've fucked 86 chicks? What the fuck do you have to prove dude?

Get some therapy or something if you're all fucked up over some army chick not digging on you after having 86 other conquests. (they all look like dudes anyway :( )

If 86 is like...the number of kisses youve had or whatever, disregard the above.

You are in the "Does she like me mode?" Get the hell out of their. She went out with you didn't she? She likes you get over it and move forward.

Word ---^

Watch Swingers...that is all any man needs to figure out the opposite sex. It is perfect.

Its 87 now (no, it wasn't Kate), and its the number of girls I made out with, not slept with ... that'd be dangerous! I'm not really that hung up over the whole thing, I just for some reason at the time had the desire to post it :)

EQGirl who are you? I'm guessing someone from Final Destiny?

EQGirl who are you? I'm guessing someone from Final Destiny?

Now that's one sweet pick-up line, dude.

Dude, remember that women enjoy having sex too. If there are two of you alone late in a place, then almost undoubtedly, UNDOUBTEDLY, she has already agreed to have at least make out.

Although women show it in a different way to men (most of the time), their thoughts and desires are exactly the same. You'd seriously be surprised at how much you can get by simply going to a club and saying no more than "Hey i think you're really pretty and we should get to know each other."

From an average, gentle-type there will be one of 3 responses: 1) The girl will not be interested and you will have wasted nothing by admitting that you find someone attractive; 2) The girl will politely throw you off by saying she has a boyfriend or that she Isn't interested, and you have lost nothing; or 3) The girl will respond positively, giving you the chance to impress her, and you will have gained the chance.

The hardest part of it all is then impressing her, but entering conversation at all shows that she has an interest if you play things right. If she then agrees to meet you, and there is no set deadline that they have to be back, and especially if you go to a non-public place together, then you are to be certain that if you try something a bit more sexual then you are right in there.

Some people mess up at this point too. Try feeling her hair, and when she turns to look, say something like "I really love your hair" or something, and then simply move your hand round the back of her hair and press your lips against hers. Sounds cheesy, but it works.

Someone coppng a feel on you kialya might not float your boat, but if the girl has a actual interest in you, it's suprisingly effective, regardless of what you think, and I'm not talking about just feeling her up totally, but just a little feel.

If it is what they want, even bolder then they like, they'll still deal with it and intentions are clear at least. the one thing people hate the most is the unclear BS where you just go on dates niether one pushing any issues for fear of rejection or what nots.

Watch Swingers...that is all any man needs to figure out the opposite sex. It is perfect.

Best advice on this whole thread.

I wouldn't listen to Shorty about woman advice... Last I talked to him, he was trying to get it on with a mailbox. :(

You actually remember/count how many chicks you've made out with? Wow that's weird.

It started back when I broke up with Melissa. My friend Dan was like "Damn, you've made out with a lot of girls" and he began to write up a list. Then when I went off to college, he came down to visit one weekend and relayed the information to Josh, my co-host for American U Pie (our weekly radio show) and it became the topic of discussion for the show and we had a bunch of callers call in with their "numbers" or "roster". Its honestly not as unusual as one would think, I can think of 4 people with numbers higher than mine in my general circle of friends too, all being girls, with Natalie breaking 150. Having never spoken to my sister about me counting, I walked in on her and her friends from college counting too, she's only 15 people behind me and coming up fast. Anywho, the roomates then bought me a "now serving" sign straight out of a deli and fashioned it in our house, and are very quick to update it.

Though I am quite proud to say that out of all of them, I am still on very good terms with all but 2. One was Dana, who totally mind-fucked with me when I went off to Prague two semesters ago and cheated on me, the other one doesn't need to be mentioned here though it may be obvious who it is. The rest of them all admidt that I treated them great and still think I'm a nice guy :)

You still broke up with the attractive nympho, stupid :(

The rest of them all admidt that I treated them great and still think I'm a nice guy

Can we change Kel's title to "King of 2nd base"?

good one shew.

As to the people breaking higher then yours kelraz, are they women who have a habit of getting drunk, or bieng extremly errmm... trying to say, alot of show?

Women can hit a higher make out count easier/faster then guys can in a heartbeat if thier easy.

Damn...lemme bow down to the king...87 chicks kissed...that's a night at the club in LA. At least you cleared up the question I had nagging in the back of my mind, "How does a dude who scored 86 times NOT know how to cloes the deal?". Now i know....

I think maybe what we have here is a deal maker and NOT a CLOSER. You need to go ahead and try closing some of these deals. If you macked on 86 chicks, how many have you closed? The "BIG" 87 above your head only means that you need more work. If the chicks you are talking to know all about the 87 mack-down sessions why are they afraid. A guy sleeps with 86 chicks, I can see them being a bit on the hesitant side, 86 chicks kissed...they should be thinking, "At least he knows how to kiss."

Come on bro get in the game.

Sheesh....close this post already. If you can't score it on the next date (with either of them) then drop them both and move on to some chick who will put out...especially if you are at her house until 5am watching movies!!!!

Oh yeah....the Kate broad who's in the Army...if she's anythign like the military girls I've know (unless she's an officer) she's put out more than 87 times already. It's called basic training and deployment.

And I still gotta return to Tom on this point...DON'T DATE CHICKS YOU WORK WITH.....IT WILL TURN OUT BAD!!!!

It's called basic training and deployment.

Ok that cracked me up.

It's called basic training and deployment

Yeah, we talked about that. During basic you have a buddy that doesn't leave your side ... so the alternative was for her to run off and have sex with random guys in the portapots or in the dumpster, very attractive ... or wait until basic was over.

And Talid, like I said the nympho became a total bitch lately. And once she got her lip pierced she's not as attractive as she was a year ago when we dated. Her roomate has been hanging out with us more lately though, and her roomate has always been a lot more attractive.

Ok Kel just stop. Ignorance is bliss... the more you try to thinks things out the worse off you'll be. Just let it play itself out, what happens, happens. If you take everyone's advice into consideration you'll be miserable trying to plot things out from different angles, that's what I learned. If you've hooked up with all these girls like you say you have then there shouldn't be a problem.

What you need is a MILF.

Yeah I'm not worried, at the time I probably wasn't even concerned either ... just baffled and wanted to get my thoughts down on paper, so to speak. I'm glad a lot of people got into reading the thread though, have had some great in-game conversations :) Its kinda theraputic to read about some people's fuck-ups when it comes to relationships, thats the same reason my roomates and I video tape every type of relationship interaction we can. I've got nearly 70 hours of DV footage.

But I still stand by my original statement, the nympho was a sweet girl but her LA upbringing made her really snotty and the "tortured soul" routine only got her so far. I got tired of it, and the lip piercing is just gross. Talid, you can have her :) Come to my party on the 16th and I'll make it so!

MILF!!! MILF !!! MILF!!!

Okay, one question:

For the benefit of the over 35 set, what's a MILF?

It looks like you've been answered pretty exhaustively already Kelraz, and I agree with the general consensus so I won't weigh in, but I'd have to say that keeping a count (much less a number posted over the door!) of the number of women you've 'made out' with is... wierd. Overcompensating for something ;) ? Ever thought of enjoying those young women as *people* rather than a number to scratch on the bedpost?

I'd also like to add a vote for the 'King of second base' title for Kelraz, please... :P

Regards,
Nydia Ywalmoriel
Autonomous Collective

I prefer the term lipslut, or at least king of 1st base ... which is the tongue kissing.

And its not me that keep the sign updated, its my roomates.

There's plenty of other organizations that keep similar records. I'm reminded of the "Pike" house at UVA, with a big tree in the front yard. In the upper branches of the tree is litterally hundreds of pairs of shoes where the frat brothers steal the shoes of the freshman girls that spend the night in the frat house and throw them up into the treat, then forcing them to walk barefoot back past the dining room to the freshman dorms, aka the original "walk of shame". You gotta at least give me credit for not doing that, as I never do anything with malicious intent and do my best to never hurt anyone ... and so far, while I've been hurt a lot myself, have never hurt any of the girls I've dated (admidtedly to my knowledge).

For the benefit of the over 35 set, what's a MILF?

A mom I'd like to fuck.

By the way, all you need is a comma to skew that phrase into something incestuous. 2 cp to the first person to figure it out!

pfft that wasn't hard M,ILF now give me the 2 copper thanks.

Roliel you've got a dirty mind mate ...

Those of us who took their stepsister to the senior prom (and then went to her senior prom) and made out with her ... are offended.

or at least king of 1st base
Hey, thanks for the idea. I just made that his title on our board now.

Ok so I'll be the sappy fuck that I am and ask...are you truly happy knowing you kissed 87 chicks? Are you just looking for an evening of fun right now?

I have no idea what this has to do with the topic but it's something that has been wandering around in the minds of my friends. Somehow I'm just really particular about who I date and I end up getting serious about all of them I date.

I think Lindsey taught us what you call that, eh Shorty?

What was that exactly?

Sluttery, of course.

Still so weird kel :( when are you coming to france so I can take your to parties and you can score some more ? :p

I just cut out the middle man and despise people altogether.

I think Kinu should cut out the middle man and just get Kel to France and they can score with each other and be like "OH YEAH BABY TAKE THIS SINGING SHORT SWORD!!! I'M GONNA RIZLONA ALL OVER YOUR FACE!"

...or not

Damn Shew that's -hot-

Can you post more of your Kelraz-Kinuvan fanfic please?

And can you make Kelraz say "Arrrr" every couple lines?

I cant wait to try out all the new moves I have learned from reading this thread :rollin

Shew, you made me ruin a perfectly good keyboard :(

Last nights date went well :) Just got home.

Actually thinking of dumping the other two girls to be kinda exclusive with Kate ... something unheard of in these parts for a few months now.

Kinu I'm saving my money up. Paris was too expensive to get to from Prague, but I'll come out to Western Europe just after graduation I hope!

/KICKS KELRAZ......

mmmm i think it is time for taco bell !

I just got home from taco bell :)

No, no...here is the BIG BIG bonus.....

You don't have to "dump" the other girls.

You don't score with them anyway....therefore it's not a relationship! You are just "friends"!

haha oh man you are funny ... no

Slurp





Maylen Bojangles