Both from BOT tonight!

Scenario 1:

Group kills named, gets wiped by adds. Rune is on corpse. Is it fair game to loot the rune when all members are dead and out of zone who had the mob engaged, but will likely return ASAP? Was it ethical to loot. Would you have looted it?

Scenario 2:

Different group attempts a different named. They wipe and are all out of zone. Other group checks track, finds name up, Camp Checks, nobody calls that spot, moves in and kills the named over the corpses and returning group members of the group that failed. Was this currently unengaged target fair game? Was it ethical. Would you have done it?

Kad

Scenario 1 is a bit more iffy, but no I wouldn't have looted it.


Scenario 2, the kill was legit. The other group lost the camp/named when they wiped so they weren't ready to kill the named at that point in time. You see it all the time with contested raid targets.

Should mention that I am holding my response for a day or two as I was directly involved in one of the scenarios, and do not want to skew the replies.

Kad

I'm with Azn on number 2.

Number 1 is a judgement call. If I run up to a corpse with nobody around and there's a spectral on it, it's fair game. However, a rune on a mini-boss like that...it's obvious something bad happened.

The question arises, is it a raid target or a group affair? If it's just a couple people doin' it, then it sucks to be you. you couldn't handle the add's, TLS.

But if you happen upon the AoW corpse just lying there with 50 corpses all around, I wouldn't touch that BoC no matter how tempting it is.

Number one, I would say the corpse is only open if its obvious no ones coming back for it, I'd wait till the corpse is at like 1 sec before looting it :P.

Number 2, they lost the rights to the mob when they wiped.

if the group wipes its all good. especially if you didn't know, if it was left and no one responds, ganked

Im with Cronnus on this one

1/ Check the timer on corpse, if it's 15mins or less (half the rott timing), "omg I found a 500$ bill!". If not, wait and see, it takes like 2 mins max to go to any named camp in BoT for an invis class, and probably less if you know a rune is waiting for you!

2/Fair game, you wipe, named isn't at you anymore. Harsh maybe, but that's the game. And rezzing fallen group is a must of course. ;)

Number1:I woulds stay at the corpse and make sure one of the group members come back if not i would have looted it and prob tried to contact them saying " hey this droped off your named, contact me for a MQ "
Number 2: If you pull named while none of those group members are in zone then its fine but if they rezing up/buffing, thats where it starts to get unethical. You have to use judgment for this like how long have they been dead, can u see any of them members attempting to come back into the zone for rez and such.

I had this happen shortly before I quit. My group of 5 with no cleric are just snooping around and we see a named up and a pile of corpses. Seeing the opportunity, we promptly go about wasting his ass. About 30 seconds into the fight, people start coming back to their corpses, screaming bloody murder about taking their mob. I instructed our group (or someone in the group said it, I don't recall) to loot whatever was on it as soon as they opened the corpse, to make it look like nothing was on it - just to keep them from feeling bad. To our surprise and delight, it dropped a rune and plate legs :p

We kept it a secret from them, to keep them from being even more pissed, however, a certain paladin (begins with SHEW and ends in DOGG) I know and I were talking about it...and he told someone in the group what dropped...I should have shoved his lance right up his butt and through the top of his head...but it was funny as hell.

So yeah...a pile of corpses does NOT keep a camp :rollin

Even if one or two members of the group are there, unless they're ready to engage, they should bow to those that are ready.

Scenario 1 is very unethical if you were standing there watching them wipe. Otherwise, borderline, but I wouldn't take it.

Scenario 2 is cut and dry. You die, you lost your mob.

Scenario 1. Depends on whos ethical philosophy you follow..if you follow Hobbes view you take it..what ever you desire is ethical. If you follow Kant you simply wouldn't dare take it.

Scenario 2. Corpse dont hold a camp no matter what.


Ibudin

Ask Zarkarin :)

/hug

My approach:

1. I would wait until I contacted any in zone members of the group that wiped from the adds to let them know the drops were about to rot. Loot as a last resort and MQ if possible. But only if the time ran out.

2. Where I think that it would be within the rules to attack the mob, I still would not do it with any of the corpses owners in zone. Ready or not. I think if they died in an attempt to kill the mob I would give them as many tries as they wanted. Thats just me though.

-Xeck-

1. I wouldn't loot it unless it's about to rot.

2. If the group that wiped wasn't already preparing (in camp) for the second attempt, I'd have engaged.

Actually, now that I think about it, I'd check to see if any of the dead are in zone. If not, I'd do one of those, "Accidental" loot things.

(1) Loot it when/if the timer gets low. It's obviously a judgement call. As mobs get smaller and corpse timers get shorter, the chance of me looting it gets higher. In the particular case of a rune, if later someone objected, I'd gladly MQ it back to them.

(2) If you fail on something, and someone else is ready to give it a try, you're done. Sometimes you're nice and give people another go at something; hell, even help them recover - but in a world of one-group mobs with highly contested drops, yous pays your dime and yous takes your chances.

1.) Would not loot it unless it was very clear nobody was coming back for it. Basically if the corpse was about to rot, I would loot it. Corpses don't poof in BoT for like half an hour, which is more then enough time for someone in the group to get back to it under pretty much any circumstances.

2.) If they wiped, the mob is fair game. You can be a nice guy and give them another shot, but there's no reason to feel obligated to do so.

One of my favorite moments was rolling on loot dropped by Master Yael one boring evening, when a hobbit named Daello runs up and, right in the middle of the group, before everyone's eyes, leans down and loots all. While we're rolling. Nodnodnod.

[Sat Apr 05 03:17:06 2003] Daello regards you indifferently -- You could probably win this fight.
[Sat Apr 05 03:17:09 2003] Kaerila tells the guild, 'Look , the three of us really haven't worked at all on this quest'
[Sat Apr 05 03:17:11 2003] Daello is not in a guild.
[Sat Apr 05 03:17:14 2003] Kaerila tells the guild, 'So all three roll :P'
[Sat Apr 05 03:17:18 2003] Kaerila tells the guild, 'Simple +)'
[Sat Apr 05 03:17:18 2003] Vyen tells the raid, 'Who is daello?'
[Sat Apr 05 03:17:20 2003] **A Magic Die is rolled by Avendel.
[Sat Apr 05 03:17:20 2003] **It could have been any number from 1 to 100, but this time it turned up a 56.
[Sat Apr 05 03:17:27 2003] **A Magic Die is rolled by Dawson.
[Sat Apr 05 03:17:27 2003] **It could have been any number from 1 to 100, but this time it turned up a 49.
[Sat Apr 05 03:17:27 2003] Avendel sighs at Dral.
[Sat Apr 05 03:17:32 2003] **A Magic Die is rolled by Kaerila.
[Sat Apr 05 03:17:32 2003] **It could have been any number from 1 to 100, but this time it turned up a 80.
[Sat Apr 05 03:17:34 2003] **A Magic Die is rolled by Derryk.
[Sat Apr 05 03:17:34 2003] **It could have been any number from 1 to 100, but this time it turned up a 24.
[Sat Apr 05 03:17:41 2003] Kaladen tells the guild, 'Hiya'
[Sat Apr 05 03:17:41 2003] Karrma yells for help from ahead and to the left of you
[Sat Apr 05 03:17:42 2003] **A Magic Die is rolled by Gruffy.
[Sat Apr 05 03:17:42 2003] **It could have been any number from 1 to 100, but this time it turned up a 51.
[Sat Apr 05 03:18:20 2003] Avendel laughs at Halbalo.
[Sat Apr 05 03:18:24 2003] Gruffy tells the raid, 'Anything on the agenda next?'
[Sat Apr 05 03:18:30 2003] You say to your guild, 'heya Kala'
[Sat Apr 05 03:18:32 2003] Karrma says, 'Im trapped!'
[Sat Apr 05 03:18:37 2003] Avendel tells the guild, 'Morning kala'
[Sat Apr 05 03:18:38 2003] Gruffy says, 'Good'
[Sat Apr 05 03:18:40 2003] Vyen tells the raid, 'Daello just looted the other 2 pieces'

Wups! hehehe anyway, that was hilarious -- some nerve!

Gotta love the new KC. Seriously they should make reverse the key requirement on BoT. No many morons have access now as it stands. Maybe move the ornate drops to tactics, at least you have to do some work to get there.

One besides admitting fully that my typing suck I got one other thing. ABout the ninjalooter. You could have petitioned him over this. I have heard of some cases of loot being returned even on PK servers.

Because the quarterback's arm was never moving forward prior to the defensive tackle hitting his arm, the result of the play is a fumble recovered by the defense.

Oh yeah. If it was going to rot I would loot it, and depending upon my mood I might even be curteous enough to send a tell to a memeber of the fallen party to let them know this. Also, if they wiped they had their shot, now go for it.

Should mention that I am holding my response for a day or two
-Kadath

Been 3 days. Let's see whatcha got.

1) I would not have looted it...i know for sure when I kill a mini. If I did not do it, I would not loot it.

2) That mob is fair game. I have been on both sides of that situation. I am annoyed when I am the one who's group wiped, I am elated when I am the one who's group won. It balances out in the end.

Master Garrath Moore
Arcanist:rolleyes

Pretty much what everyone said. On issie 1 I was not involved, but had I witnessed a lootable corpse with dead bodies around it, I would have contacted one of the bodies owners and let them know I was looting the droppable stuff for safekeeping and would keep the corpse locked if possible and only loot the no drop stuff when the timer reached 1 minute and would either MQ or personall ask a GM to loot transfer to the groups designated looter.

On issue two I _was_ involved, as part of the group that moved in after another had wiped and not called the camp when we noticed a named on track, ostensibly because they were all already dead. We quickly dispatched the named while the original group filtered in and started cursing us out. While I sympathized because the same had happened to me in the past, I understand and agree with the way this server deals with this issue, wipe = no claim. I told them as much and recommened they ask the zone if that was the case, when they did not, _I_ asked the zone and recieved a half dozen replies in /ooc affirming our stance.

Kad