http://shopping.yahoo.com/articles/yshoppingarticles/399/why-consumer-reports-cant-recommend-iphone-4/

Interesting that they didn't test it with a run-of-the-mill case on, instead of tape. Surely a risk-adverse organization like Consumer Reports wouldn't suggest you use your $600 phone without a case anyway, right?

Probably trying to minimize the number of factors for which they had to control .. there are a lot of case and jacket permutations out there.

I haven't seen a case that doesn't cover that area.

Right, but think of all the possible fits and conductivity of hundreds of cases of various makes. Easier to find a single, easily repeatable example of an insulator that any schmoe can apply for 3 cents.

I don't really buy that. How does Consumer Reports not test at least the Apple case?

When anti-lock brakes were optional, they wouldn't pretend those didn't exist. They wouldn't exclusively test the base model and then base their safety ratings on that misleading result.

They did say that they're going to test cases too, but it seems odd that they would rush to release incomplete results that everyone's already aware of. Especially in light of their saying that every other aspect of the phone beats everything else on the market. That's just setting people up to feel dumb (including CR) when CR turns around and does recommend it over the others when it has a case.

It will be intersting to see if Apple responds given that they


Our findings call into question the recent claim by Apple that the iPhone 4's signal-strength issues were largely an optical illusion caused by faulty software that "mistakenly displays 2 more bars than it should for a given signal strength."

I don't really buy that. How does Consumer Reports not test at least the Apple case?

When anti-lock brakes were optional, they wouldn't pretend those didn't exist. They wouldn't exclusively test the base model and then base their safety ratings on that misleading result.

They did say that they're going to test cases too, but it seems odd that they would rush to release incomplete results that everyone's already aware of. Especially in light of their saying that every other aspect of the phone beats everything else on the market. That's just setting people up to feel dumb (including CR) when CR turns around and does recommend it over the others when it has a case.

The only flaw in that logic is if they are basing the test strictly on what it is you would get when you go down to the AT&T retailer and ask for an Iphone 4. As in the service plan/SIM card and the little cardboard box with the phone, battery, manual and charger with the expectation that you will be able to ask the sales rep to get it going and walk out with a 100% fully capable product without paying for a value added feature. If there is some tiering of what is a "base" model versus various levels of accessories etc where you pay for some value added then....maybe. If getting the phone to work perfectly requires the caveat of adding a third party solution or paying more over the "base model" for a value added package that makes the thing 100%, then yes, CR is well within reason to not recommend the Iphone 4. Why? Due to the fact that it doesn't work right out of the box. Ducktape. Silicone gel cases are something the consumer has to add on as an additional expense. Sure, ducktape and cases are cheap but the point is the consumer has to put a bandaid on the product at their own expense to make it 100%.

If Apple wants to put a free gel case in the box with the phone (or better yet, on the phone already) along with explicit instructions that you must use the gel case for 100% best results then fine. Gel cases though are considered an aftermarket enhancement/vanity/personal touches type item and subjective to the tastes of the consumer.

To use the "anti-lock brakes as an option" comparison...yes the brakes make the car safer and were a good value added investment at the time, but then again the car still did its job 100% from a practical standpoint even without the anti-lock brakes, did it not? It got people from point A to point B in relative safety and comfort.

Bottomline is you should not have to pay more for a product to do what it should do by default without having to spend more money to get what was promiced for free. Especially at the Iphone 4's price point where a 50 dollar Nokia has it trumped on the fact that it does what it offers to do out of the box.

Saying a $50 Nokia trumps it is even more silly hyperbole than the CR review. That's the kind of thing that makes me assume that a large percentage of the iPhone 4 talk online is by people, like you, who haven't used one and are just regurgitating the most sensational of what they've read.

The phone will easily "get you from point A to point B" without a case. I still don't have a case myself. No problem.

I do think Apple should be handing out free cases, myself. That doesn't excuse CR for plain retardation in their testing though.

Sanchek, the 50 dollar phone trumps the Iphone in the sense that it does what it is supposed to do or should I say what people expect it to do with no issues. It makes phone calls. If the bars say your signal sucks than you might get a dropped call or poor reception. The end.


The IP4 has a flaw. Minor? Major? That depends on who your ask or how far you are from a tower. If you are in a strong stable network such as a major metro area: IE Atlanta, you probably won't notice it much if ever. In the boonies far from a tower which could happen while on a road trip..well maybe not so much. Should it have such a flaw and have it be so well trumped up/documented/etc. I dunno. At its price point, the thing should be FLAWLESS. IP4 is the topshelf but it would seem that the IP3 GS is a more stable product.

CR retarded in their testing? How? They did a mock tower inside a faraday cage with the phone in its "off the shelf" state. As unaltered and pure as you can get. Adding the skin might have even sullied the test as was mentioned before...its a variable that could be enough of an unknown to present an arguement of not being under a 100% pure controlled environment. Science can be a real bitch like that. Anyway, they held the thing at the signal drop G-spot and it took one. Whats retarded about that? The fact that they didn't send the intern out to Best Buy to get a 3 dollar skin for the phone to demonstrate useage with a skin? Get real, Sanchek. Perhaps they should have done that and published a side bar saying the thing works fine with a skin (as opposed to the ducktape) but maybe all they had was the roll of ducktape handy or the intern was off getting coffee. Bottomline is they didn't do it because...well...they were not obligated to. Off the shelf is just that. Open the box. Go. No need to take any intermediate steps to cook the books. If anything CR could warrant some props for demonstrating that the thing INDEED works 100% estoundingly well if you put this patch of tape on the phone.

So they vindicated you in a way but they also slighted you because they did not recommend it to be THE gadget the whole human race must own. I am not buying this phone and based on all the reviews, if I DO buy an Apple smartphone it won't be this particular version and if that event did ever happen that I caved it will have taken some serious incentive. I have the Omnia i900 with a 3G SIM I am satisfied with here in China and have an HTC EVO on Sprint waiting for me when I go home.

I am glad its a slow day at the office with time that is expendable because, as Malse has said, I can't beat you at your own game of doushebaggery. Especially when you have your mind as thoroughly made up.

That's the kind of thing that makes me assume that a large percentage of the iPhone 4 talk online is by people, like you, who haven't used one and are just regurgitating the most sensational of what they've read.

Sanchek, I dunno if it was for you but that device is not an implus buy for me. I am just not made of money and its not evne on the carrier I can't even access while overseas. I have to wiegh in factors such as reviews, articles, forums and the fact that I am in fucking China and its not even available here unless you want to spend 2 large on a greymarket. Plus, Apple sets itself up for nitpicking due in part to the fact that it is so highly regarded and also that Steve Jobs comes off almost like he is delivering the ultimate cure for the human condition at times. Sometimes the bullshit flag will get raised. To the Iphone's credit..it sold me on the whole smartphone concept. Just not on the Iphone itself.

As for the skin or absence there of being retarded, did you ever think that a skin might unfairly skew other aspects of the testing towards a negative direction? Such as the screen sensativity/ergonomics/clarity of calls/ etc? The ducktape= the skin, dude. Only without all the rest of the skin to get in the way.

As for the skin or absence there of being retarded, did you ever think that a skin might unfairly skew other aspects of the testing towards a negative direction? Such as the screen sensativity/ergonomics/clarity of calls/ etc? The ducktape= the skin, dude. Only without all the rest of the skin to get in the way.

That's exactly the kind of obvious talking-out-of-your-ass that I mean. The Apple case goes around the outside edge. It doesn't affect screen sensitivity or clarity of calls, but makes it impossible to bridge those antennas with your fingers.

Nothing wrong with not having a particular phone. I wouldn't have bought one myself if my subsidy wasn't up. However, if you're going to run around the Internet trying to talk authoritatively about it, you ought to at least do some basic research first instead of channeling Sarah Palin.

http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC668ZM/A?fnode=MTY1NDA0NA&mco=MTgxNzIzNTg

29.00 dollars at the Apple store. So for 30 dollars I get an official fix for the attenna issue. That is if I want the official over priced Apple bumper. Sure, their bumper doesn't interfer with the screen but what about the robust aftermarket:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=iphone+skin

Here are a few from Newegg. They fit the 3GS. I did not find any for the 4 and you know what...I didn't feel like digging that deep. They range froma skin to the Otter box. So which is "the fix" that will skew the test in a favorable direction? You need at least a 20 spot in your pocket.

As for me not doing basic research....on what? Every single skin offered? Both aftermarket and official offering? Does it matter? You are supporting the purchase of a value added item to fix a problem? Give the maker of the flawed product more money to fix the flaw. Great. The average stupid consumer who might get some of their gouge from the interwebs might not find that a good idea. We are dumb, breathe through our mouths, drag our knuckles but we number in the hundreds of millions to billions and sometimes we have money to spend. Sometimes we choose not to spend it foolishly.

You ever see the house of the future skit from Looney Tunes? Daffy Duck demonstated the house's ability to raise out of harms reach to Porky Pig in the event of a flood. In order to lower it down...well, you have to buy the little red button that lowers it down again. Same logic. Fuck. That. Shit. All is well if they fess up, offer the free bumper, and take what they learned and apply it to the next version of the Iphone. Oh and most of all say they are SORRY. A bit of humility goes along way. The next version of the Iphone will sell like hotcakes dipped in heavy water. Perhaps their stock won't look like this:

http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=AAPL+Interactive#chart1:symbol=aapl;rang e=5d;indicator=volume;charttype=line;crosshair=on; ohlcvalues=0;logscale=on;source=undefine

Big dip there. Shouldn't it be going up? They have the magic cure for the human condition!

Quitting this topic. Trying to argue with the man who is sticking up for BP during the greatest oil spill ever means I have already failed.

[URL]So which is "the fix" that will skew the test in a favorable direction? You need at least a 20 spot in your pocket.


Didn't come here to argue, but...

I only buy my cases on eBay (http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Silicone-Case-Cover-Skin-Apple-Iphone-4G-OS-4-/400135801942?cmd=ViewItem&pt=PDA_Accessories&hash=item5d29f3cc56#ht_4272wt_913)

I ordered one the day I pre-ordered my phone. It arrive the day before the phone did. I have never had a signal issue and didn't have to drop a "20 spot."

Its still more than the right price:

Free. In the box with the phone. With a "I am sorry. Please accept this free solution" letter from the elustrious Steve Jobs himself.

Since they are so cheap, it won't put him out on a limb much.

I don't really buy that. How does Consumer Reports not test at least the Apple case?

http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/consumer-reports-gives-iphone-4-case-test-a-thumbs-up/19553021/

Apparently they did. The clincher still is the fact you have to buy something to fix a flaw, which is logically...wrong. Arrogance towards a problem is sometimes worse than the problem itself and that is what is really the issue, at least for me. Anyway, Apple is going to make some kind of announcement tomorrow. It will be interesting to see what transpires.

Either you're just trolling at this point, or you've inhaled too much of that smog and Malse was wrong.

But just to indulge you, that has to be the dumbest argument I've heard yet. Very few people buy a $600 phone and then run around with no case on it. They were going to buy cases anyway.

Besides, they waived the restocking fee during the first week. No one's forcing anyone to keep it if they consider it defective. Problem is, it's awesome. No one in their right mind would return it and go back to the alternatives after having used it.

tl,dr: Sanchek :heart3 iphone. Lummus:mad:. Sanchek:mad: Lummus :mad::mad::mad: Sanchek:devil Akom :confused: Fildien :o

Haha :D

BTW I dont have a case for my Nexus One. On the other hand my wife should she dropped it good thing the screen didnt break.

for Sanchek:

HEY ASSHOLE, YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE TO GIVE A COMPANY MORE MONEY TO FIX THEIR DESIGN FLAW!

A 600 dollar phone should also not be released with a

WELL DOCUMENTED FLAW.

Even if you don't buy their bumper, it should be free. Why? I dunno maybe humility? Admitting a mistake? An expression of something other than arrogance?

But they won't have to. Why? Because of people like you, Sanchek who will buy the fucker and say it is awesome even if it was carved out of dried up dog poo.

Maybe they can make an iMindReader and figure out if you were going to buy the case or not, and then give free ones to those 3 people that weren't. :rolleyes:

Or you know, if people aren't happy with it, they can just take it back, pay nothing whatsoever for the experiment, and carry on with their old phones.

You would be first in line to buy it even it meant Steve Jobs was going to use it take over the world by turning us all into a pack of zombies.

For the record too, with my Omnia.....no skin on it. I have an Otter Box it goes into that clips to my belt for when I am working on projects where it could be dinged or damaged or dropped from hieght..otherwise I like being able to slide it in and out of my jean's pocket with ease. So no, not everyone wants to put a skin on their phone. The logic of "they were going to buy a skin anyway" might not hold all the water you might think.

Really though...the deal is the arrogance. Anyway, tomorrow is another day. Might want to see what Apple announces. It will probably have a higher viewership than the State of the Union address. Maybe even the World Cup (in the States anyway).

As for the trolling....since you are THE MOD than trolling is anything that disagrees with the viewpoint of THE MOD. Its doesn't matter though that THE MOD is a stubborn jackass and reputed to be the biggest doushe on the boards, does it? Your best argument is "its awesome". Where as I have to provide a scholarly tome as to why its not "awesome" you are free to label whatever because I don't think its "awesome".

Heh I feel like I am trying to explain the theory of evolution to a person who believes the world is only 4000 years old.

About this time of night is when your next post is "FINE JUST DELETE MY ACCOUNT", right? What is it you guys drink over there in China anyway?

About this time of night
Its lunch time on Thursday

is when your next post is "FINE JUST DELETE MY ACCOUNT", right?
No, I have learned that to be just as childish as your "but but but...ITS AWESOME" arguement

What is it you guys drink over there in China anyway?

Bottled water. The tap water is not potable.

Heh, it is awesome. That's what you can't seem to grasp; it's just that simple. The phone is far better than the alternatives.

If it were actually as bad as you want to believe (or bad at all), everyone would've taken it back by now.

I won't argue against the quality of the hardware. There are plenty of companies that could learn much from Apple about manufacturing and marketing.I have played around with the 3 and the 3 GS. The OS a blind retard can use. As stated before...I got sold on the smartphone concept but not the Apple version of it.

That's where the compliments end, however. For one I don't like being locked down into proprietary things. Many Macevangelists have rambled on about how great Apple is and their products to the point where I might actually take a look just to see what all the fuss is about. Reality hits when I see the price and what they can't do because it goes against their (Steve's) philosophy. From what they run to where I can take it to get fixed when it breaks to in the case of the Iphone...being bound to only one carrier. I have more loyalty to the carrier than the handset which has to be replaced every number of years anyway. I don't have to worry about taking back what I am not willing to change carriers to get in the first place.

People have said "FFS stop the argument. Buy the damn thing or don't but don't be critical of either person's decision regardless", and I really wish I could honor that but I lump Apple fans in the same category as Islamists and other religious kooks. Its in my nature as a skeptic to question what is behind such fads or trends or blind devotion. To their credit, Apple fanbois don't blow up people for disagreement. It does bug me substantially when an Apple product with glaring flaws gets a brush off response and a bandaid fix that has to be paid for by proxy by the consumer ( that is your "no one buys a smartphone without a case" argument) coupled with arrogance on the part of the company's top brass that we are more or less a bunch of poopyheads for ever suggesting that a flaw might be anything other than in our logic as consumers and not with their product. If this was any other product from any other firm...it would be hammered and hammered hard with little defense on the part of anyone. Perhaps that speaks well of how good their track record is if you enjoy their niche of products but it also again suggests arrogance of a "we are too good at what we do to screw up and people have faith in that" flavor, which can be a dangerous slippery slope.

The company I work for is a 90% Mac house. All of our execs, and a good portion of the employees have upgraded to iPhone 4's and I have not heard a single complaint.

Apparently the iPhone 4 has a reception issue when you hold it wrong. I wouldn't know, it doesn't happen to me. Apparently the iPhone 4 takes yellow pictures and has a yellow screen. I wouldn't know, mine doesn't.

What I do know is that this is the best phone I've ever owned.

The news is sensationalizing the vocal minority's complaints, while I would guess 90+ percent of iPhone 4 owners are perfectly happy with their new phone.

The whole thing has become a smear campaign (http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/14/ce-oh-no-he-didnt-microsofts-kevin-turner-says-the-iphone-4/) against Apple. Why? Because they have the best phone out there, even with the issues that some people are experiencing. Apple made a mistake, yes, and people are latching on to that, emphasizing it... because that is all they have.

As to the "just saying the iPhone is awesome as your argument is childish" sentiment.. I work in IT at my company. Often times those who don't have iPhones need me to set up email on their phones, or get them connected to WiFi, etc. I've had experience with many a new smart phone. I'm not talking out of my ass or being an Apple fanboi when I say that the iPhone beats every phone I've seen. It has the best interface, the best email system and the best browser. That's not to mention the app store that no one has any real hope of competing with.

I love gadgets. If someone made a better phone than the iPhone (and I don't just mean on paper), I would get it in a heartbeat. Until that day comes:

The iPhone 4 is awesome.

I won't argue against the quality of the hardware. There are plenty of companies that could learn much from Apple about manufacturing and marketing.I have played around with the 3 and the 3 GS. The OS a blind retard can use. As stated before...I got sold on the smartphone concept but not the Apple version of it.

That's where the compliments end, however. For one I don't like being locked down into proprietary things. Many Macevangelists have rambled on about how great Apple is and their products to the point where I might actually take a look just to see what all the fuss is about. Reality hits when I see the price and what they can't do because it goes against their (Steve's) philosophy. From what they run to where I can take it to get fixed when it breaks to in the case of the Iphone...being bound to only one carrier. I have more loyalty to the carrier than the handset which has to be replaced every number of years anyway.

People have said "FFS stop the argument. Buy the damn thing or don't but don't be critical of either person's decision regardless", and I really wish I could honor that but I lump Apple fans in the same category as Islamists and other religious kooks. Its in my nature as a skeptic to question what is behind such fads or trends or blind devotion. To their credit, Apple fanbois don't blow up people for disagreement. It does bug me substantially when an Apple product with glaring flaws gets a brush off response and a bandaid fix that has to be paid for by proxy by the consumer ( that is your "no one buys a smartphone without a case" argument) coupled with arrogance on the part of the company's top brass that we are more or less a bunch of poopyheads for ever suggesting that a flaw might be anything other than in our logic as consumers and not with their product. If this was any other product from any other firm...it would be hammered and hammered hard with little defense on the part of anyone. Perhaps that speaks well of how good their track record is if you enjoy their niche of products but it also again suggests arrogance of a "we are too good at what we do to screw up and people have faith in that", which can be a dangerous slippery slope.

You're the one making it into a weird, creepy religious argument.

I'm posting this in Chrome from Win7, with Visual Studio, Outlook, an RDP session with my Win2k8 server, and a SSH session to my Ubuntu server open on other screens. If you think I like my iPhone because I'm an Apple zealot, you're getting colder by the post.

Some of us just don't have your weird, religious polarization for/against certain companies. Ironic that you mention fundamentalism (lol?), since the fervent crazy that you've been bringing tonight is the closest thing to fundamentalism on the thread.

Sanchek...you could have just posted " I know you are but what am I?"

Glad you all love your Iphones. Its tasty and sweet and OH YAH good. May competition bring about something better though, because do we really want just Apple as our country's phone maker and AT&T as our only service provider? Just asking. Doubt it will happen but still. Since we have an AT&T store manager here and the rest of the lot is so ape about it what I say here is about as taboo as the notion to build a mega-mosque next to the World Trade Center.

Haters gonna hate.

Kool Aid swillers are gonna swill.

Never fear, I shall break through your wall of bat-shit-crazy-douchebaggery with refreshing, tasty goodness:

http://www.comicsbulletin.com/rage/images/050401/koolaidmansm.jpg

OH YEAHHHHH!!!!

Look at it this way, the press and other attention seekers are blowing this way out of proportion because Apple's done a crappy job dealing with the antenna fallout.

Look at it this way, the press and other attention seekers are blowing this way out of proportion because Apple's done a crappy job dealing with the antenna fallout.

QFT.

Oh and that's a cool Kool Aid man pic. I am saving that one for future use.

Let me add just one final thing:

If money were no object...as in its falling out my crack... I would buy a greymarket and try it out to draw my OWN conclusions since overseas is the ultimate lab to evaluate the performance of the device removed from the AT&T bias. If credibility is owning and using and then so be it but not looking so good in that dept here form a cost of the phone perspective. China Unicom, the GSM network here, can sell you just a SIM that is Iphone compatible with 3G service as long as your phone is jail-broken/unlocked which is big bucks. Pop it in and you are done. No need to fiddle with parameters. As Anthony Kiedis once said, I would rather regret something I did rather than something I didn't. If trying something out to get a 100% foundation for an opinion is a crime than go ahead and throw me in jail. I refused to buy an Ipod until it was handed to me for free. I still miss my Philips player, which got left on the plane one of my many trips, and its easy interface with MP3 format (as opposed to iTunes which I hate) but the Ipod itself is a pretty solid device and gets used daily with no issues. Solid enough to the point where I also bought an Ipod Touch for my parents as a gift so they could use it in the car for long trips. Its in the junk drawer now since they did not want to fool with iTunes and expected the thing to just interface perfectly with their music collection in mp3. For 200 plus dollars it was a failure of a gift.

Back to the topic of my own evaluation: even with Rybit's offer it is still beyond my means unless I can sell the phone off to another expat at the end of my tour and at least break even. I already own an EVO and want to stick with that once I get home.

That was an entertaining meltdown.

Its in the junk drawer now since they did not want to fool with iTunes and expected the thing to just interface perfectly with their music collection in mp3. For 200 plus dollars it was a failure of a gift.

MP3s work JUST fine on ipods. Sure you have to sync it with itunes, but you can just import an entire mp3 library into your itunes directory through 3 clicks in the file menu to import a library. 95% of my library in my itunes/on my ipod/synced with my android(yes I have an app for my android that will sync my itunes librarys to my phone), are Mp3s. The ONLY stuff that's not is stuff I downloaded from Itunes.

Hell, itunes rips all my cds in MP3 format because I chose that as an option from within itunes.

I am not an apple fanboi. The only apple products I use are the 3 ipods in my household (my touch, my wife's nano, and my old nano I gave to my daughter), and I've had no issue with any of your iphone complaints. I think it's completely asinine that someone that's left handed MUST buy a case for their phone to work right, and even more asinine to me is Apple's contention that it's not a flaw with the phone. I can't fathom a company stating a design flaw is the problem of a user not using the phone correctly. I can't fathom that people would defend that kind of bullshit.

All that said, complaining about mp3 functionality with an ipod is just idiocy. Ipods handle them just fine.

Edit to add: I have a smartphone, and I don't have a case for it. I have a screen protector but no case. I am a heavy user of my phone as my work requires it, and I don't have a case (granted they weren't offered for the HTC incredible initially, and I don't know if they are now). But no, not everyone that uses a smartphone uses a case for any number of reasons.

All that said, complaining about mp3 functionality with an ipod is just idiocy. Ipods handle them just fine.


Yup. I know. I could not convince my 72 year old pop of that though. He went as far as DOS and figured that was as far as he needed to go. Next time I visit I will try to set him straight but trying to tell him what to do from China, that is without me being there in the room holding his hand, is an exercise in futility.

I think it's completely asinine that someone that's left handed MUST buy a case for their phone to work right ... I can't fathom that people would defend that kind of bullshit.

It's because, as several of us have mentioned at this point, it isn't actually a real-world problem. I'm left handed myself and it works fine.

Some of the people like Lummus just happen to have popular tech blogs and are spewing tons of hype about the antenna. People will do anything for attention these days, and the "real" news has basically been reduced to copy/pasting blogs and twitter when it comes to these types of stories. So, it's all a big echo chamber of crazy.

I'm a lefty too. OMG and OMG I still have my phone even though I shouldn't have it b/c it is biased to us lefties. What am I thinking? Oh, yeah that's b/c the phone is great and I don't have any issues with it. I repeat, I don't have any issues with my phone and it's the greatest thing since sliced bread for me. I've always used cases for my phones even my old motorolla flip b/c I typically pass down or sell my phones and want to keep them in pristine condition. It's a preference thing though, no one says everyone has to have one.

Yup. I know. I could not convince my 72 year old pop of that though. He went as far as DOS and figured that was as far as he needed to go. Next time I visit I will try to set him straight but trying to tell him what to do from China, that is without me being there in the room holding his hand, is an exercise in futility.

I got ya. I go through the same thing with my 58 year old dad. And now my dad has a cheapie droid phone. It's fun as hell (not really) to help him all the time, but he refuses to listen even if he does ask for help.