[/url]

[url="http://www.iranaffairs.com/iran_affairs/2007/10/the-whacky-insa.html"]Iranians are not that different (http://www.iranaffairs.com/iran_affairs/2007/10/the-whacky-insa.html)

Despite the bluster of the hate-mongering Right, there is no fundamental difference between the world's major civilizations, and we all have more in common than any of us may realize.

The insane, hate-blinded Right in Washington insist that "those people" (meaning Muslims/Iranians/Middle Easterners/brown people, etc.) are "fundamentally different" from "us" and pose a threat to "our" civilization (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/chi-oped0916chapmansep16,1,6969008.column) akin to Communism and Nazism etc. etc.

They'd be surprised how much "our" civilization shares with "their" civilization. In fact, not only is the English word for paradise originally a Persian word (as are other words (http://www.krysstal.com/borrow_farsi.html) such as angel, lemon, julep, and pyjamas) the very concept of the "good" versus "evil" that Bush and his warmongers constantly expound upon originated elsewhere: the Christian doctrines of the dualistic cosmic struggle between the forces of darkness and the forces of light (and the concept of a freedom to choose between the two) as well as resurrection and the Final Judgment, originated with the ancient Iranian religion called Zoroastrianism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastrianism) and was introduced into Christianity through Judaism. In fact, it was probably Zoroastrianism that introduced the concept of a single Supreme God into Christianity - while other religions at the time believed in a single God, they largely thought were multiple gods for different peoples but only their own was the supreme one. Several biblical sites from those days are located in modern Iran - including the graves of Daniel (http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/Daniel.html) and Ester & Mordechai in Susa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susa) - along with the oldest Jewish community (http://www.sephardicstudies.org/iran.html) in the Mideast.

Reverend Hagee (http://www.alternet.org/story/39748/), a fundamentalist Christian right-wing pro-Israeli evangelist who is embraced by AIPAC and the Bush administration and who regularly urges Bush to attack Iran for the sake of Israel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaXs8MdmXWY&mode=related&search=), would be surprised that Iranians were there at the birth of what he considers to be the Son of God. Iran is cited several times in the Bible and especially the old Testament since the Persian king, Cyrus, founder of a vast empire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_Empire) which long pre-dated Rome, had freed the Jews from Bablyon. Long before the Pony Express laid the foundation of the American postal sytem, communication in the Persian Empire was maintained through a system of roads used by messengers. According to Herodotus, "Neither rain, nor snow, nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed rounds" . . . the motto of the modern US postal system. The Cyrus Cylinder was also issued at this time - the first universal declaration of human rights, predating the Magna Carta by a thousand years.

In fact, most Americans would be surprised to learn that every year when they celebrate Christmas, they're actually celebrating Persian religious concepts and traditions. The "Three Magi" who visited the infant Christ, for example, are Persian religious priests (historically, the Magi were Zoroastrian priests, and the Three Magi who visited Christ are said to be buried in Iran somewhere.) Mithraism (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10402a.htm), another ancient Persian religion, is said to be the origin of the other Christian concepts and Christmas traditions: Mithra was also born of a virgin, on December 25th, had twelve followers, was killed and then resurrected etc. - all from Mithras (http://www.counterpunch.org/leupp12242005.html). The Romans adopted their own version of Mithraism, and took it as far away as London, where today you too can visit a temple (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_of_Mithras,_London) dedicated to a Persian prophet. To this day, when Christians around the world - including in Iran (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1546555/posts) at places like the Vank Cathedral (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NeGMZDYIMI) (built 1606 AD) - are preparing to celebtrate the birth of Christ, the people of Iran celebrate the Winter Solstice, marking end of the longest nighte and the "birth of light" in a celebration knowns as Shab-e Yalda (http://www.cais-soas.com/News/2006/December2006/21-12.htm).

On Shabe Yalda, Iranians eat many foods that would be quite familiar to most Americans - but which originated in Iran. Pistachios and walnuts came from Iran, as does spinach. Wine (http://www.mage.com/cooking/From-Persia-to-Napa.html) was perhaps first made in Iran. Whenever you eat apricots, eggplants, melons, lemons, lime, oranges, saffron or tarragon, you're eating foods that were introduced to the West from Iran. And when guests bring you tulips or red roses . . . yes, both came from Iran. But of course, since then the world's cuisines (and cultures) have intermingled quite a bit, and today a visitor to Iran can enjoy a pizza (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wq2Djn0lQ1k) or hamburger in a shopping mall (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2B6DuHB_0M), after a nice ski trip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5S4Hr1HzAk) or paintball (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56hPlxR46e8).


But perhaps the most interesting food item which is said to come from Iran is . . . ice cream (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_cream#Persia). Long before ice cream became the "Great American Dessert" - and long before America was even discovered - the Persians were eating sweet frozen deserts that evolved into modern ice cream. But there's more to it than that - see, the Iranians could have ice in the hot summer times because they invented something else too: refrigeration. The built vast pits in the ground called yakhchals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakhchal) that were used to store winter ice and snow well into the hot summers. The structures were built with special mortar and bricks (bricks were first used in Iran too incidentally) to be waterproof. The Iranians also invented something else that most Americans would be quite familiar with: air conditioning, using a system of windcatchers or "badgirs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windcatcher)" that cooled homes - and are still used in the hotter desert cities in Iran such as in Yazd. Badgirs worked by moving air over a cool source of water that was brought into the cities using another Iranian invention - an underground aquaduct system known as qanats (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qanat). Oh, and while they were at it, they also invented the windmill (http://www.worldofenergy.com.au/factsheet_wind/07_fact_wind_types.html).

I could keep on going and talk about the mounted knight, pants, chess and algebra - and many more things (http://malaysia.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070907140035AALzUG4) which appeared in Iran long before the West etc - but I'll leave it here. Note this important disclaimer: Of course many of the things mentioned on this post may have not actually originated in Iran but instead may have come from China or India, and were developed/evolved further as they passed through Iran and came to the West. That's fine with me - the civilizations of China and India have a long, long historical association with Persia, and I'm not one of the nationalist types who proclaim that everything was invented by one particular place/country. Nothing was ever invented totally from scratch anyway - rather, ideas simply evolve over time and the historical accident that a person of a particular ethniciy/nationality came up with an idea does not necessarily credit that person's government or country as the inventor, in my opinion.

My point in this post, however, is that the Rightwing hate-mongers who claim that we are all fundamentally "different" and doomed to have a "clash of civilizations" are simply ignorant, and do not realize just how closely all of our civilizations are entwined with each other.



http://www.iranaffairs.com/

This site is actually somewhat of a blog, but it has very good information regarding Iran, Its a good way to get to know the Country so many are pushing for us to attack.

If you dont care to know about them for positive reasons, well then at least read it to know your enemy...

Hmm. The quoted text seems to say, "Look you right-wing bastards, if it wasn't for us you wouldn't have ICE CREAM! Love us, you fuckers!"

The examples it cites may well be correct, but they aren't convincing in the present.

Wow, ice cream and the windmill. Leave the legacy of parliamentary democracy and modern science then we'll talk.

Whatever. Stop developing nukes, mmkay?

Iran could also " get to know the US " and not be so strigent upon killing the infidels who dont believe in there way.

Iran may be the origin of the Three Magi, Jesus Christ, and the Next coming, .. I really don't care because right now the only thing they're exporting is terrorism.

Otherwise, had Ackmeddinnerjacket not advocated the total destruction of Israel, you'd not be seeing so many neocons advocating war against them. Though again, I've seen more harsh language coming from the likes of France than I have from this administration. So it's not just a Bushhitleromghatesiran thing.

Iran could also " get to know the US " and not be so strigent upon killing the infidels who dont believe in there way.

Please show me evidence that "Iran kills infidels who don't believe in their way"

Iran may be the origin of the Three Magi, Jesus Christ, and the Next coming, .. I really don't care because right now the only thing they're exporting is terrorism.

Otherwise, had Ackmeddinnerjacket not advocated the total destruction of Israel, you'd not be seeing so many neocons advocating war against them. Though again, I've seen more harsh language coming from the likes of France than I have from this administration. So it's not just a Bushhitleromghatesiran thing.

Ahmadenijad calls for an end to the Israeli Government with harsh words. Sure you can translate that to mean he wants them blown off the map. But Iranians do not believe in genocide, and would not wipe all Jews off the map to get the land.

TEHRAN - The Jewish women in the back rows of the synagogue wear long garments in the traditional Iranian style, but instead of chadors, their heads are covered with cheerful, flowered scarves. The boys in their skullcaps, with Hebrew prayer books tucked under their arms, scamper down the aisles to grab the best spots near the lush, turquoise Persian carpet of the altar. This is Friday night, Shabbat - Iranian style, and the synagogue in an affluent neighborhood of North Tehran is filled to capacity with more than 400 worshipers.

It is one of the many paradoxes of the Islamic Republic of Iran that this most virulent anti-Israeli country supports by far the largest Jewish population of any Muslim country.

While Jewish communities in Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Egypt, Morocco and Algeria have all but vanished, Iran is home to 25,000 - some here say 35,000 - Jews. The Jewish population is less than half the number that lived here before the Islamic revolution of 1979. But the Jews have tried to compensate for their diminishing numbers by adopting a new religious fervor.

''The funny thing is that before the Islamic revolution, you would see maybe 20 old men in the synagogue,'' whispers Nahit Eliyason, 48, as she climbs over four other women to find one of the few vacant seats. ''Now the place is full. You can barely find a seat.'' Parvis Yashaya, a film producer who heads Tehran's Jewish community, adds: ''We are smaller, but we are stronger in some ways.''

Tehran has 11 functioning synagogues, many of them with Hebrew schools. It has two kosher restaurants, and a Jewish hospital, an old-age home and a cemetery. There is a Jewish representative in the Iranian parliament. There is a Jewish library with 20,000 titles, its reading room decorated with a photograph of the Ayatollah Khomeini.

Khomeini protection

Iran's Jewish community is confronted by contradictions. Many of the prayers uttered in synagogue, for instance, refer to the desire to see Jerusalem again. Yet there is no postal service or telephone contact with Israel, and any Iranian who dares travel to Israel faces imprisonment and passport confiscation. ''We are Jews, not Zionists. We are a religious community, not a political one,'' Yashaya said.

Before the revolution, Jews were well-represented among Iran's business elite, holding key posts in the oil industry, banking and law, as well as in the traditional bazaar. The wave of anti-Israeli sentiment that swept Iran during the revolution, as well as large-scale confiscations of private wealth, sent thousands of the more affluent Jews fleeing to the United States or Israel. Those remaining lived in fear of pogroms, or massacres.

But Khomeini met with the Jewish community upon his return from exile in Paris and issued a ''fatwa'' decreeing that the Jews were to be protected. Similar edicts also protect Iran's tiny Christian minority.

Just as it radically transformed Muslim society, the revolution changed the Jews. Families that had been secular in the 1970s started keeping kosher and strictly observing rules against driving on Shabbat. They stopped going to restaurants, cafes and cinemas - many such establishments were closed down - and the synagogue perforce became the focal point of their social lives.

http://www.sephardicstudies.org/images/iran-minyanim.jpg

Jewish school in Shiraz

Iranian Jews say they socialize far less with Muslims now than before the revolution. As a whole, they occupy their own separate space within the rigid confines of the Islamic republic, a protected yet precarious niche.

Jewish women, like Muslim women, are required by law to keep their heads covered, although most eschew the chador for a simple scarf. But Jews, unlike Muslims, can keep small flasks of home-brewed wine or arrack to drink within the privacy of their homes - in theory, for religious purposes. Some Hebrew schools are coed, and men and women dance with each other at weddings, practices strictly forbidden for Muslims.

''Sometimes I think they are kinder to the Jews than they are to themselves. ... If we are gathered in a house, and the family is having a ceremony with wine or the music is playing too loud, if they find out we are Jews, they don't bother us so much,'' Eliyason said.

''Everywhere in the world there are people who don't like Jews. In England, they draw swastikas on Jewish graves. I don't think that Iran is more dangerous for Jews than other places.''

Some problems exist

Testimony from Jews who have left Iran suggests more serious problems than those cited by Jews inside the country. In written testimony to a congressional subcommittee in February 1996, an Iranian Jew complained of being imprisoned for two years on trumped-up charges of spying for Israel. He also said his arrest was preceded by harassment at work and pressure to convert to Islam. Inside Iran, Jews say that they frequently receive alarmed telephone calls and letters from relatives in the United States concerned about their well-being, but that they themselves do not feel physically endangered. Their major complaint is the inability to visit family in Israel, and what they say is inadequate funding for Hebrew schools, which are administered by the Iranian Ministry of Education.

Although many Jews hold jobs in government ministries or within state-owned firms, they say they are unlikely to rise to top positions. In addition, Iran's strict Islamic law, or ''sharia,'' contains many discriminatory provisions toward non-Muslims.

Jews 'part of Iran'

Still, Jewish leaders say their community has far stronger roots in Iran than other Middle East Jewish communities, which were virtually eradicated by massive immigration to Israel in the 1940s and 1950s. Esther, the biblical Jewish queen who saved her people from persecution in the fifth century B.C., is reputed to be buried in Hamadan, in western Iran. The grave of the Old Testament prophet Daniel lies in southwestern Iran.

''We are different from the Jews of the diaspora. You see the name 'Persia' in the Old Testament almost as often as the name 'Israel.' The Iranian Jews are very much part of Iran,'' said Gad Naim, 60, who runs the old-age home in Tehran. Iranian Jews trace their history to the reign of Persia's King Cyrus. As the Bible tells it, Cyrus conquered Babylonia in 539 B.C., liberated the Jews from captivity, and raised funds for the rebuilding of their destroyed temple in Jerusalem. The return of the Jews to Jerusalem at that time was accompanied by a large migration to the lands that were then Persia, and now Iran.

In Esfahan, an Iranian city fabled for its intricate Persian tile work, the first Persian Jews were settled under the reign of Cyrus. The ancient city was once known as Dar-Al-Yahud (''House of the Jews'' in Farsi), and as late as the 19th century it was the home of 100,000 Jews, according to Elias Haronian, head of Esfahan's Jewish community.

Today, the city is a repository of Jewish lore. It has a cemetery with Jewish graves 2,000 years old, stunning synagogues and Jewish mausoleums with tiles to rival those of the mosques - but a population of only 1,500 Jews.

What happened to the Jews?

Some converted centuries ago. Indeed, in Muslim villages surrounding Esfahan, a distinctive Jewish dialect of Farsi is spoken, and Muslims still follow certain Jewish rituals, such as lighting candles on Fridays. Others left for Tehran, or for California or New York. Some went to Israel.

''It is not that life is so difficult for us, but a minority is a minority... We are like a glass of water in the sea,'' Haronian said. Haronian, a petroleum engineer, worries less about persecution than about the faltering Iranian economy, the lack of job opportunities for his four children, and the shortage of suitable Jewish spouses. ''There are very few Jewish boys here. There are so few of us,'' said his 17-year-old daughter, Shirin. At Esfahan's Hebrew school, students confided that they are deeply torn between a love of their homeland and a desire to escape from the stifling isolation of Iran.

The decision to stay or go may rest largely on Mohammad Khatami, a relatively progressive cleric who won a landslide election May 23 as the next president of Iran. Although he is virulently anti-Israel in his public comments, Khatami was considered sympathetic to the Jews during his term as Iran's minister of culture and Islamic guidance. He paid a campaign visit to a social club for Jewish women in Tehran. ''We expect more freedom, an easier life, not just for Jews, for everybody,'' said Farangis Hassidim, an administrator of Tehran's Jewish hospital.

Not everyone in the Jewish community favors liberalization of Iranian society. Arizel Levihim, 20, a prospective Hebrew teacher, said Judaism has fared better within the confines of Iran's strictly religious society. ''I believe it is good for women to keep their head covered. I think it is good to restrict relations between boys and girls,'' Levihim said. ''I agree with the ideals of the Islamic republic. These are Jewish values too."




http://www.sephardicstudies.org/iran.html


Almost every city of Iran has a Jewish attraction, shrine, or historical site. Prominent among these are the Esther (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esther) and Mordechai and Habakkuk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habakkuk) shrines of Hamedan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamedan), the tomb of Daniel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel) in Susa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susa), and the "Peighambariyeh" mausoleum in Qazvin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qazvin). Usually Muslims go to Daniel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel) shrine for pilgrimage.

There are also tombs of several outstanding Jewish scholars in Iran such as Harav Uresharga (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Harav_Uresharga&action=edit) in Yazd (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yazd) and Hakham Mullah Moshe Halevi (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hakham_Mullah_Moshe_Halevi&action=edit) (Moshe-Ha-Lavi) in Kashan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashan), which are also visited by muslim pilgrims.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_Jews



So how come these infidels are allowed to live and practice their religion in Iran? I am sure that its all lies and that Iran is evil and they want nukes and they hate everyone right?

" The Iranian Majlis or Parliament has reportedly (http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=11fbf4a8—282a—4d18—954f—5467 09b1240f)passed (http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=11fbf4a8—282a—4d18—954f—5467 09b1240f) (now disputed (http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=6626a0fa—99de—4f1e—aebe—bb91 af82abb3)) a law requiring that, 'Jews would have to sew a yellow strip of cloth on the front of their clothes, while Christians would wear red badges and Zoroastrians would be forced to wear blue cloth.' "

Practice with a mark pointing them out before they are hauled off to a jail and firing squad. Sounds like a fair and great place to live if you dont think like the goverment wants you to.

more disconcerting 20th century anecdote from an informant living in Shiraz, was recounted by Anthropologist Laurence Loeb :
When I was a boy, I went with my father to the house of a non—Jew on business. When we were on our way, it started to rain. We stopped near a man who had apparently fallen and was bleeding. As we started to help him, a Muslim akhond (theologian) stopped and asked me who I was and what I was doing. Upon discovering that I was a Jew, he reached for a stick to hit me for defiling him by being near him in the rain. My father ran to him and begged the akhond to hit him instead.

Finally, Janet Kestenberg Amighi. (in [i]The Zoroastrians of Iran: conversion, assimilation, or persistence. New York, NY: AMS Press, 1990, pp. 85) has argued that the Zoroastrians were perhaps the lowest non—Muslim caste in Shi'ite Iran, and accordingly, subjected to the most severe najis—related restrictions:

In Yezd and Kerman (through the early 20th century), Moslem pollution prohibitions were strictly observed and extended to most aspects of life. A Moslem would not eat out of a dish touched by a Zoroastrian nor permit even his garment to be touched by a Zoroastrian. Zoroastrians were forbidden the use of most community facilities such as barber shops, bath houses, water fountains, and tea houses. Water and wetness were considered to be particularly strong carriers of pollution. Zoroastrians were not permitted to go to the market in the rain. They could not touch fruit when shopping in the bazaar, although the dry goods could be touched.

Far worse, the dehumanizing character of these popularized 'impurity' regulations appears to have fomented recurring Muslim anti—infidel violence, including pogroms and forced conversions, throughout the 17th, 18th ,19th and into the early 20th centuries, as opposed to merely unpleasant, 'odd behaviors' by individual Muslims towards non—Muslims.

Believe or die ??

Former Iranian President Rafsanjani's December 2001 'Al Quds Day' sermon (http://www.meib.org/articles/0203_irn1.htm) threatened, explicitly, the nuclear annihilation of this largest concentration of autonomous Jews in history. Current President Ahmadinejad has reiterated these threats repeatedly as Iran's nuclear ambitions near fulfillment. But Ahmadinejad has also reportedly vowed (http://www.compassdirect.org/en/newslongen.php?idelement=4090), 'To stop Christianity in this country' , and his recent 'letter (http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=IA27606)' to President Bush emulates the jihad war precept (originally formulated by the Muslim prophet Muhammad) of calling infidel powers—often Christian powers—to accept Islam, [i]prior to initiating a jihad war against them

http://www.americanthinker.com/2006/05/badging_infidels_in_iran.html

and Im sure the planned assasination of Putin was just a mis understanding.

" The Iranian Majlis or Parliament has reportedly (http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=11fbf4a8%E2%80%94282a%E2%80%944d18%E 2%80%94954f%E2%80%94546709b1240f)passed (http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=11fbf4a8%E2%80%94282a%E2%80%944d18%E 2%80%94954f%E2%80%94546709b1240f) (now disputed (http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=6626a0fa%E2%80%9499de%E2%80%944f1e%E 2%80%94aebe%E2%80%94bb91af82abb3)) a law requiring that, 'Jews would have to sew a yellow strip of cloth on the front of their clothes, while Christians would wear red badges and Zoroastrians would be forced to wear blue cloth.' "

Practice with a mark pointing them out before they are hauled off to a jail and firing squad. Sounds like a fair and great place to live if you dont think like the goverment wants you to.

more disconcerting 20th century anecdote from an informant living in Shiraz, was recounted by Anthropologist Laurence Loeb :When I was a boy, I went with my father to the house of a non—Jew on business. When we were on our way, it started to rain. We stopped near a man who had apparently fallen and was bleeding. As we started to help him, a Muslim akhond (theologian) stopped and asked me who I was and what I was doing. Upon discovering that I was a Jew, he reached for a stick to hit me for defiling him by being near him in the rain. My father ran to him and begged the akhond to hit him instead.

Finally, Janet Kestenberg Amighi. (in [i]The Zoroastrians of Iran: conversion, assimilation, or persistence. New York, NY: AMS Press, 1990, pp. 85) has argued that the Zoroastrians were perhaps the lowest non—Muslim caste in Shi'ite Iran, and accordingly, subjected to the most severe najis—related restrictions:In Yezd and Kerman (through the early 20th century), Moslem pollution prohibitions were strictly observed and extended to most aspects of life. A Moslem would not eat out of a dish touched by a Zoroastrian nor permit even his garment to be touched by a Zoroastrian. Zoroastrians were forbidden the use of most community facilities such as barber shops, bath houses, water fountains, and tea houses. Water and wetness were considered to be particularly strong carriers of pollution. Zoroastrians were not permitted to go to the market in the rain. They could not touch fruit when shopping in the bazaar, although the dry goods could be touched.

Far worse, the dehumanizing character of these popularized 'impurity' regulations appears to have fomented recurring Muslim anti—infidel violence, including pogroms and forced conversions, throughout the 17th, 18th ,19th and into the early 20th centuries, as opposed to merely unpleasant, 'odd behaviors' by individual Muslims towards non—Muslims.

Believe or die ??

Former Iranian President Rafsanjani's December 2001 'Al Quds Day' sermon (http://www.meib.org/articles/0203_irn1.htm) threatened, explicitly, the nuclear annihilation of this largest concentration of autonomous Jews in history. Current President Ahmadinejad has reiterated these threats repeatedly as Iran's nuclear ambitions near fulfillment. But Ahmadinejad has also reportedly vowed (http://www.compassdirect.org/en/newslongen.php?idelement=4090), 'To stop Christianity in this country' , and his recent 'letter (http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=IA27606)' to President Bush emulates the jihad war precept (originally formulated by the Muslim prophet Muhammad) of calling infidel powers—often Christian powers—to accept Islam, [i]prior to initiating a jihad war against them

http://www.americanthinker.com/2006/05/badging_infidels_in_iran.html

and Im sure the planned assasination of Putin was just a mis understanding.

I am quite happy to inform you that your information is incorrect and that Jews in Iran are treated in some cases better then Muslims. Muslims for instance are not allowed to stand and take a piss due to religion they must sit. A jew is however aloud to do it either way. As dumb as that may sound, its just a little thing. If one person treated a jew bad and they have a story to tell, I am sure you can just as easily listen to the tales of black people that were persecuted by Americans.

You are pretty dense if you believe that Iran would want to assasinate putin, seeing as how Russia is helping them with their nuclear energy aspirations.

To both of these things i will respond with the same answer.

prop·a·gan·da /ˌprɒphttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngəˈgænhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngdə/ Pronunciation Key (http://Pronunciation%20Key) - Show Spelled Pronunciation (http://Show%20Spelled%20Pronunciation)[prop-uh-gan-duh] Pronunciation Key (http://Pronunciation%20Key) - Show IPA Pronunciation (http://Show%20IPA%20Pronunciation) –noun 1.information, ideas, or rumors deliberately spread widely to help or harm a person, group, movement, institution, nation, etc. 2.the deliberate spreading of such information, rumors, etc.

Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Iran

Article 1 (Form of Government)

Article 1 states that the form of Government in Iran is that of an Islamic Republic. It explains this form is due to to the referendum passed by 98% of the elegible voters of Iran and gives credit to Imam Khumayni (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imam_Khumayni) for the victorious revolution.



Article 2 (Foundation Principles)

Article 2 defined an Islamic Republic as a system based on the belief:





There is only one god (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah).
Understanding god's divine nature is fundamental in setting laws
Human beings return to god after death.
God is just.
Leadership shall continue the revolution of Islam.
Article 2 goes on to state that human beings have dignity, value and freedom with responsibility to god. From that concept, several other governing concepts (for example equity & justice) are stated to be secured by:



That the leadership be qualifed in regard to the Koran (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koran) and the Sunnah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunnah).
The government should advance the Arts & Sciences.
Oppression in any form is not acceptable.
Article 3 (State Goals)

Article 3 states the objective of the Islamic Republic is to direct all of its resources to a number of goals. These goals cover general topics in governance. For example:



Support good moral values based on faith
Fight all forms of vice and corruption
Raise public awareness through the proper use of the mass media and press
Free education
Free physical training
Strengthening advanced scientific research
The elimination of imperialism and foreign influence
The elimination of despotism, autocracy and monopoly
Ensure social and political freedoms within the law
The end to all forms of undesirable discrimination
Some of the goals are put in context of the requirements of Islam. For example:



The planing of a just economic system
Public cooperation of all people
The creation of the government's foreign policy
Article 4 (Islamic Principle)

Article 4 is immutable and the Council of Guardians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Guardians) ensures that all articles of the Constitution as well other laws are based on Islamic criteria.



Article 5 (Office of Religious Leader)

This article explains the leaders of Ummah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ummah) must choose a leader in accordance with Article 107 for this office. This is stated to be related to the disappearance of the Twelfth Imam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_al-Mahdi) whom it asks god to return.



Chapter II [Article 15 to 18]: Official Language, Script, Calendar, & Flag of Country



Language

Article 15 states that the "Official language (of Iran)... is Persian." Per Article 16, "Since the language of the Koran and Islamic texts ... is Arabic it must be taught ... in from elementary grades until the end of high school."



Chapter III [Article 19 to 42]: Rights of People

Article 23 of the Iranian constitution holds that “the investigation of individuals’ beliefs is forbidden, and no one may be molested or taken to task simply for holding a certain belief.”

Article 24 safeguards press freedoms



Article 29 [Welfare benefits]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6c/Wiki_letter_w.svg/17px-Wiki_letter_w.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Wiki_letter_w.svg) This short section requires expansion (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Constitution_of_Islamic_Republic_o f_Iran&action=edit).


Chapter IV [Article 43 to 55]: Economy & Financial Affairs

The Islamic Republic is not a Communist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist) state as the Islamic scholars fiercely oppose this. Notwithstanding this, pursuant to obsolete[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Islamic_Republic_of_Iran#_note-ra)[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Islamic_Republic_of_Iran#_note-rra)[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Islamic_Republic_of_Iran#_note-6) Article 44, "all large-scale and mother industries, foreign trade, major minerals, banking, insurance, power generation, dams, and large-scale irrigation networks, radio and television, post, telegraph and telephone services, aviation, shipping, roads, railroads and the like" are entirely owned by the government. (See also: Privatization of the Iranian economy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privatization_of_the_Iranian_economy))



Chapter V [Article 56 to 61]: Right of National Sovereignty

Pursuant to Article 60, the president fulfills "executive" functions "except in the matters that are directly placed under the jurisdiction of the [Leader]" as enumerated in Article 110. Article 68 allows suspension of elections during wartime.

Article 57 states the Separation of Powers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_Powers).



Chapter VI [Article 62 to 99]: Legislative Power



Article 81 [Foreign Business]

This article makes it impossible for a multinational corporation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multinational_corporation) to takeover certain businesses in Iran saying "concessions to foreigners or the formation of companies" in Iran is forbidden.



Chapter VII [Article 100 to 106]: Councils

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6c/Wiki_letter_w.svg/17px-Wiki_letter_w.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Wiki_letter_w.svg) This short section requires expansion (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Constitution_of_Islamic_Republic_o f_Iran&action=edit).


Chapter VIII [Article 107 to 112]: Leader



Article 110 [Leadership Duties and Powers]

The constitution accords many powers to the Supreme Leader (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Leader).

Some say that that the Supreme Leader's powers extend beyond those enumerated in the Constitution because he can "Islamic issues for justification."[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Islamic_Republic_of_Iran#_note-7)

Article 112: If a proposed bill of Majles is "against the principles of Shariah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shariah) or the Constitution," then the Guardian Council should meet with the Expediency Council to resolve the legislative deadlock.



Chapter IX [Article 113 to 151]: Presidency, Ministers, Army ,& Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps



Article 146 [No Foreign Military Base]

"...[F]oreign military base in Iran, even for peaceful purposes, is forbidden."



Chapter X [Article 152 to 155]: Foreign Policy

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6c/Wiki_letter_w.svg/17px-Wiki_letter_w.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Wiki_letter_w.svg) This short section requires expansion (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Constitution_of_Islamic_Republic_o f_Iran&action=edit).


Chapter XI [Article 156 to 174]: Judiciary



Islamic laws & fatwas

Article 167 [Rule of Law for Judiciary] stipulates that judges must make use of "Islamic sources and...fatwas" in matters where the Iranian law books are silent.



Chapter XII [Article 175]: Radio & Television

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6c/Wiki_letter_w.svg/17px-Wiki_letter_w.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Wiki_letter_w.svg) This short section requires expansion (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Constitution_of_Islamic_Republic_o f_Iran&action=edit).


Chapter XIII

Chapter 8, which has only one article, establishes Iran's National Security Council (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_National_Security_Council).



Chapter XIV [Article 177]: Revision of Constitution

No amendment that conflicts with the "Islamic character of the political system...and...the school [Twelver Ja'fari]" is permissible under any circumstances.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Islamic_Republic_of_Iran


If you dont like it, dont live there... If you decide to, you are protected. If anything, they are moving in the right direction...


(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Islamic_Republic_of_Iran)

if bieng able to pee however I like is considered a privilage. Sounds like a wonderful place.


" TEHRAN, Iran (AP) — Russian President Vladimir Putin appeared ready to cancel his first trip to Iran following reports about a possible assassination attempt — a move that would badly strain Moscow's relations with Tehran. "

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hBb4i2GueiDLooaKVGxuFyuqi0lQD8S9KHJO0

if bieng able to pee however I like is considered a privilage. Sounds like a wonderful place.


" TEHRAN, Iran (AP) — Russian President Vladimir Putin appeared ready to cancel his first trip to Iran following reports about a possible assassination attempt — a move that would badly strain Moscow's relations with Tehran. "

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hBb4i2GueiDLooaKVGxuFyuqi0lQD8S9KHJO0

First of all the example was to show you that they are respected as a people, and protected by law, even though they do not believe in the religion that dictates the laws of the land.

Oh and...

"Of course I am going to Iran," Putin told reporters at a news conference with German Chancellor Angela Merkel following talks in Wiesbaden, southwest Germany. "If I always listened to all the various threats and the recommendations of the special services I would never leave home."

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/10/15/putin.iran.ap/index.html?iref=newssearch

oh and one more time...
Propaganda [from modern Latin: 'propaganda', literally "propagating"] is a concerted set of messages aimed at influencing the opinions or behavior of large numbers of people. Instead of impartially (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objectivity_%28journalism%29) providing information, propaganda in its most basic sense presents information in order to influence its audience. The most effective propaganda is often completely truthful, but some propaganda presents facts selectively (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie) to encourage a particular synthesis, or gives loaded messages in order to produce an emotional rather than rational response to the information presented. The desired result is a change of the cognitive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognition) narrative of the subject in the target audience.

speaking of propaganda this is a great way to teach the children of Iran.

http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/CrisesArticle.aspx?storyId=L30464650&WTmodLoc=World-R5-Alertnet-6

speaking of propaganda this is a great way to teach the children of Iran.

http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/CrisesArticle.aspx?storyId=L30464650&WTmodLoc=World-R5-Alertnet-6

an Israel-based think tank said on Tuesday.


This is also no true... Once again i post this for you

Propaganda [from modern Latin: 'propaganda', literally "propagating"] is a concerted set of messages aimed at influencing the opinions or behavior of large numbers of people. Instead of impartially (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objectivity_%28journalism%29) providing information, propaganda in its most basic sense presents information in order to influence its audience. The most effective propaganda is often completely truthful, but some propaganda presents facts selectively (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie) to encourage a particular synthesis, or gives loaded messages in order to produce an emotional rather than rational response to the information presented. The desired result is a change of the cognitive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognition) narrative of the subject in the target audience.

Iranians read, write and speak Farsi... Pakistan does not, Therefore this is not only loaded with inaccuracy, it is coming from an Israeli Think tank?

Pfft lol good try.

Yeah the world is just out to get Iran they dont want to hurt anyone. Im sure they just want to copy Dubui but all the bad non believers in the world need to just die first so they can have there utopia.

Yeah the world is just out to get Iran they dont want to hurt anyone. Im sure they just want to copy Dubui but all the bad non believers in the world need to just die first so they can have there utopia.

Incorrect, its America not the world.

Show me where you have evidence that Iran wants to hurt people? Because they dont like Israel?

Well then, if that makes them bad, then Bush is going to rot in hell right?

"Former Iranian President Rafsanjani's December 2001 'Al Quds Day' sermon (http://www.meib.org/articles/0203_irn1.htm) threatened, explicitly, the nuclear annihilation of this largest concentration of autonomous Jews in history. Current President Ahmadinejad has reiterated these threats repeatedly as Iran's nuclear ambitions near fulfillment. But Ahmadinejad has also reportedly vowed (http://www.compassdirect.org/en/newslongen.php?idelement=4090), 'To stop Christianity in this country' , and his recent 'letter (http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=IA27606)' to President Bush emulates the jihad war precept (originally formulated by the Muslim prophet Muhammad) of calling infidel powers—often Christian powers—to accept Islam, [i]prior to initiating a jihad war against them "

Cause only the US is christian...

"Former Iranian President Rafsanjani's December 2001 'Al Quds Day' sermon (http://www.meib.org/articles/0203_irn1.htm) threatened, explicitly, the nuclear annihilation of this largest concentration of autonomous Jews in history. Current President Ahmadinejad has reiterated these threats repeatedly as Iran's nuclear ambitions near fulfillment. But Ahmadinejad has also reportedly vowed (http://www.compassdirect.org/en/newslongen.php?idelement=4090), 'To stop Christianity in this country' , and his recent 'letter (http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=IA27606)' to President Bush emulates the jihad war precept (originally formulated by the Muslim prophet Muhammad) of calling infidel powers—often Christian powers—to accept Islam, [i]prior to initiating a jihad war against them "

Cause only the US is christian...

Iran does not allow the evangelization of christianity, or of any religion attempting to spread its message. If they don't like it they shouldn't live in Iran.

They are protected as long as they do not break the law. Break the law however.... and the punishment is harsh. I am sorry, but this would be like a Black man driving through the south holding Black Panther meetings and trying to spread "Black Pride" In America this is allowed, but it wasnt in the past. Even if the government recognizes their right to exist, they still have to follow the law. The law in Iran is alot more strict, bottom line. Perhaps in time they will modernize and be more tolerant, But it is not our right to interfere unless Genocide becomes the norm.

Back when Black's were oppressed and treated bad in the United States, we had nukes... Does it mean we shouldn't have had them?

Iran has an absolute and "inalienable" right to enrich uranium under NPT rules

If Iran is not allowed to have Nuclear power then no one should be allowed to have it.

The 18th largest country in the world in terms of area at 1,648,000 square kilometers, Iran is about the size of United Kingdom, France, Spain and Germany combined. It has a population of over seventy million people.

A country so rich in history, with a history of upholding human rights in ancient times, attempting to make a transition into the modern world is denied even the right to supply its own power? The propaganda machine is back up and running at full power. Iran does this, Iran does that, They are evil blah blah blah.

Last time i need to say this... Iran has not attacked ANYONE. Yet we have the right to call them Evil? THINK!

I love the show IM watching on Discovery times " propaganda " on Iran executing women who leave there abusive husbands.

They haven't attacked anyone directly, Until the US pulls out of Iraq and Iran Turkey cleanse the place.

Im all for the end of Nukes, It would be great if no one had them. If Iran wants to join the world they need to be more flexable in that other people are different instead of insisting on the death of those who oppose ther beliefs. Making threats that they want to nuke Isreal or any christian country who doesnt follow ther line of thought doesnt win points with the world at large. Again its not just the US that is taking a hardline stance against Iran.

If you dont want to get people sabers rattled they shouldnt make threats to the world in general terms than act shocked when people take those threats serious.

Oh and ethnic cleansing I guess is a better word than Death Squads..

" Mansour Al-Ahwazi, political activist: "Various methods are used in the ethnic cleansing. We did not claim that there were killings... There are killings, indiscriminate executions, and all that, but not like what happened in Yugoslavia and other places "

http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=countries&Area=iran&ID=SP172807

Why not just take this argument to e-mails?

LMAO

Oman to hear Jedd so staunch in his defense of Iran, a state known for it's civil rights issues atm, and come after America so hardcore.

Yes, we are different Jedd, for example our primary religion doesn't require us to target children and women.

OMG we have words that have roots in a language based in the former Persia...

We must be alike!!

pffffffft

Sorry Jedd, I'm glad you feel defensive for the country of your ethnic background. But please to feel free to work to understand those of us who gave up our past motherlands ( for me it's England,Germany, France, Ireland, Scotland etc etc mutt!!) and instead embrace *if with reservations and yes complaints at times* the US of A.

I hate using the following line and in fact had promised myself not to say it again...however to you it applies..

Go home, enjoy Iran where you'd likely be stoned for speaking against the establishment...and quit to waste my air on free speach you'd not have in the land of your Grandma...

"The Al-Ahwaz issue highlights the contradictions of the Iranian government. The Iranian government professes to call for unity, to avoid sectarianism, and to defend the Shiites. It tries to use the Shiite bargaining chip in some Arab countries in order to promote its plans and in order to extract some concessions from the U.S. or from some of the other Western powers. If Iran really defends the Shiites, why does it oppress the [Arab] Shiites of Al-Ahwaz? The majority [of the Arabs] there are Shiite. If it really defends the [Arab] peoples in Lebanon and Palestine, why does it oppress its own Arab people? This is the greatest contradiction in the policy of the Iranian government.

"This issue highlights the contradictions of the Iranian government on all levels - on the sectarian level, as well as the Islamic level. The Iranian government is, in fact, coming to a dead-end, not only in terms of its foreign policy, but domestically as well.

"For example, some time ago they closed the Al-Ashraq cultural institute, which was the only Arab cultural institute in Al-Ahwaz. It was closed two days ago, as you can read on the Internet. This was done for no reason whatsoever. It did not support violence or any political organization. All it did was distribute Arab and Islamic books. It was attacked and was closed down.

"This is part of the faltering policy of the Ahmadinejad government - just like it chose to run ahead with its nuclear program, it failed to start a dialogue with its [non-Persian] peoples, and to find a formula of compromise in this regard. It has now begun to escalate its indiscriminate arrests and its attacks.

"There have been many more executions in recent years, since the rise of Ahmadinejad, and many cultural institutes have been closed down. [The Iranian government] has begun to push matters towards a dead end, and to encourage people to rise up and create unrest. What is happening now in Baluchistan... I am sure that you have heard about the kidnappings. In Kurdistan, two helicopters were attacked. They blame the West for all this unrest, and try to say this is the result of conspiracies, but it is the result of their own policy.

[...]

"Iran rules Al-Ahwaz by virtue of the status quo alone. It enjoys no historical, political, or even popular legitimacy in Al-Ahwaz.

[...]

"As the international situation deteriorates for the Iranian government, its control will weaken. Their fear of this leads them to escalate the oppression in Al-Ahwaz.

[...]

"The unity of Iran has begun to face very grave dangers, because the broadest common denominator - the religious or Shiite element - has weakened greatly."

Interviewer: "In what sense has it weakened? They derive strength from this."

Mansour Al-Ahwazi: "No, this element has weakened greatly, because the government's policy. Take, for example, the issue of the veil. They impose the veil, but in the early days of the revolution, it was worn out of personal conviction, and no one imposed it. Iranian women seek any opportunity to express their rage at the policies of the Iranian government, which imposes the veil. "In the past, Iranian women wore the veil out of personal conviction. Now, it has become a matter of oppression, and you can see how they mobilize armies in order to attack and humiliate women and to force them to wear the veil."

I love the show IM watching on Discovery times " propaganda " on Iran executing women who leave there abusive husbands.

They haven't attacked anyone directly, Until the US pulls out of Iraq and Iran Turkey cleanse the place.

Im all for the end of Nukes, It would be great if no one had them. If Iran wants to join the world they need to be more flexable in that other people are different instead of insisting on the death of those who oppose ther beliefs. Making threats that they want to nuke Isreal or any christian country who doesnt follow ther line of thought doesnt win points with the world at large. Again its not just the US that is taking a hardline stance against Iran.

If you dont want to get people sabers rattled they shouldnt make threats to the world in general terms than act shocked when people take those threats serious.

Oh and ethnic cleansing I guess is a better word than Death Squads..

" Mansour Al-Ahwazi, political activist: "Various methods are used in the ethnic cleansing. We did not claim that there were killings... There are killings, indiscriminate executions, and all that, but not like what happened in Yugoslavia and other places "

http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=countries&Area=iran&ID=SP172807

You keep refering to them being against people who dont follow their line of thought. You have yet to realize however that they are against those that wish to harm them, or interfere with them in any way.

Iran does not want israel to die because they are jewish. Iran wants muslim land returned to those that it was stolen from. Its very simple.

As for your reference to Iran and Turkey... You have fallen into the US style frame of mind. Pre-Emptive strikes are becomming normal to Americans.

Whatever happened to innocent untill proven guilty? We believe it here, but cannot afford the rest of the world the same rights. Will we forever attack people based on what we THINK is going to happen? If so then perhaps I should leave this country. For it is not the country i was raised to believe it was.

Iran does not want israel to die because they are jewish. Iran wants muslim land returned to those that it was stolen from. Its very simple.

As for your reference to Iran and Turkey... You have fallen into the US style frame of mind. Pre-Emptive strikes are becomming normal to Americans.

Whatever happened to innocent untill proven guilty? We believe it here, but cannot afford the rest of the world the same rights. Will we forever attack people based on what we THINK is going to happen? If so then perhaps I should leave this country. For it is not the country i was raised to believe it was.

LoL can't have it both ways pumpkin, either they are secular or they aren't.

I've seen you reference before the secular nature of Iran yet now you claim Iran is standing up for prior muslim claims....

Btw, as much as I think it was a HUGE mistake to place Israel in the middle of the sewer that is now the backwards Middle East, I think you'll find that stretch of land that was given to them was lil more than a religious footnote in BOTH religions...

Oooo this is the Jedd I recall got silent on the boards awhile back!!! huzzaaaahhh

Oooo this is the Jedd I recall got silent on the boards awhile back!!! huzzaaaahhh

I never got silent, I was banned.

Iran does not want israel to die because they are jewish. Iran wants muslim land returned to those that it was stolen from. Its very simple.


Whatever happened to innocent untill proven guilty?


PROOF!?!

Does Iran have more proof of muslim ownership of the land than the Israelis claim? As much as those lands in the Middle east have changed hands, who really has a claim to anything anywhere? IF a people who worshipped the Sun God were able to prove they were there before either Jew or Muslim, should we all then make way for them to move in and take over?

PROOF!?!

Does Iran have more proof of muslim ownership of the land than the Israelis claim? As much as those lands in the Middle east have changed hands, who really has a claim to anything anywhere? IF a people who worshipped the Sun God were able to prove they were there before either Jew or Muslim, should we all then make way for them to move in and take over?

Perhaps we should leave it to them to work it out regardless of how they may do so?

Last man standing wins it all ehh.. Im sure Iran will only be defending themselves when they march on the Kurds like the Turk's for there claim on now occupied Iranian land.

If Iraq still had its leader and military, this wouldn't be much of an issue would it?

You keep refering to them being against people who dont follow their line of thought. You have yet to realize however that they are against those that wish to harm them, or interfere with them in any way.

Iran does not want israel to die because they are jewish. Iran wants muslim land returned to those that it was stolen from. Its very simple.

As for your reference to Iran and Turkey... You have fallen into the US style frame of mind. Pre-Emptive strikes are becomming normal to Americans.

Whatever happened to innocent untill proven guilty? We believe it here, but cannot afford the rest of the world the same rights. Will we forever attack people based on what we THINK is going to happen? If so then perhaps I should leave this country. For it is not the country i was raised to believe it was.

They are against people who don't follow their line of thought, you see, if you are against how they think they find you threatening and you dissappear. It was that way under the Shah and it remains that way under the Ayatollahs.

You may be right about Iran not disliking Israel because they are Jewish, if that is so why do they keep bringing up the fact that they are Jewish...call them Israelis then and stop referring to them as the Jews.

As far as the Muslim land lets not forget that the land must be Shia otherwise the Iranian Shia would rather kill the Sunni and take their land, so it's a bit deeper than just Muslim.

Innocent until proven guity...well at least most of the time we have impartial juries that actually make sure our legal system stays that way...much more than can be said about Iran.

They are against people who don't follow their line of thought, you see, if you are against how they think they find you threatening and you dissappear. It was that way under the Shah and it remains that way under the Ayatollahs.

You may be right about Iran not disliking Israel because they are Jewish, if that is so why do they keep bringing up the fact that they are Jewish...call them Israelis then and stop referring to them as the Jews.

As far as the Muslim land lets not forget that the land must be Shia otherwise the Iranian Shia would rather kill the Sunni and take their land, so it's a bit deeper than just Muslim.

Innocent until proven guity...well at least most of the time we have impartial juries that actually make sure our legal system stays that way...much more than can be said about Iran.

Iran refers to them as the Zionist Regime. And in regards to everything you posted. You are still clumping up Iranians with all Muslims. Iranians are not Arabs and do not handle things the same way.

Iranians are not Arabs and do not handle things the same way.

This is true. Arabs hijack planes and fly them into buildings. Iranians take over embassies, kidnapping and murdering foreign citizens, and funneling monies to terrorist organizations to carry out a "guerrilla" war against Israel so that Iran can remain out of the fray.

One thing I do like about Iran, if it is still being done the same way as 15 years ago, is how they will fund the college tuition for Iranians to come to the US and study, provided the graduate returns and works off the loan in his or her field, thereby increasing the academic upper/upper-middle class of Iran.

I am not sure such a forward-thinking method is still practiced with Ahmanutjob in the leadership role.

Iranians take over embassies, kidnapping and murdering foreign citizens

Of course, we would kidnap and murder foreign citizens who planned a coup against our democratically elected president, hijacked our country and made it to emulate theirs. What you really should have said is, They have the balls to stand up for themselves against the most powerful country in the world.

Bottom line is this, we hate Iran, because they have NEVER been afraid, and will never be afraid of us.

LMAO Jedd....

Oman either you are blatantly stupid or you willfully ignorant of the American war machine if ever fully allowed to let it rain.

Fandros

LMAO Jedd....

Oman either you are blatantly stupid or you willfully ignorant of the American war machine if ever fully allowed to let it rain.

Fandros

I did not say they could not be defeated. I said they are not afraid... Reading Comprehension my old friend.

Sorry, was in raid ;P

They are not only afraid, but desperate hence the kowtowing to the Russians and Chinese for some sort of shield.

The French alone would make the Iranian AF into rubble.

Fandros

Of course, we would kidnap and murder foreign citizens who planned a coup against our democratically elected president, hijacked our country and made it to emulate theirs. What you really should have said is, They have the balls to stand up for themselves against the most powerful country in the world.

Bottom line is this, we hate Iran, because they have NEVER been afraid, and will never be afraid of us.

Maybe they should just embrace capitalism like China and Dubai and prove everyone wrong about there ways. Hell even start a marketing campaign about the beaches of Iran and there world class hotels. Instead of killing those who oppose there beliefs.

Sorry, was in raid ;P

They are not only afraid, but desperate hence the kowtowing to the Russians and Chinese for some sort of shield.

The French alone would make the Iranian AF into rubble.

Fandros

No Fandros, they are not afraid.

They realize that America if it wanted could wipe Iran off the map with nuclear strikes and a full out war. However they are smart enough to know that America cannot afford to do such, because of us the people not allowing it for moral reasons, and because of the world's reaction.

So i will repeat, they are not afraid. Iranians will fight to the last man if they have to, because there is no alternate plan, No country they can immigrate to comfortably and try and make a new life for themselves.

Iranians do not fit in with the Arabs, Iran is their home. Most people feel fear because of this, but not Iranians. In their minds, Allah will watch over them and they will win no matter how the win comes. Whether its a direct win in combat, or retaliation from their muslim brothers. Or the fact that they get to the afterlife.

No they are not afraid.

How dare you Nekko....you will die you heathen!!!

It can't happen , sadly Iran will not be allowed into the 21st century where they would begin to further question the teachings of their religious power core.

How dare you Nekko....you will die you heathen!!!

It can't happen , sadly Iran will not be allowed into the 21st century where they would begin to further question the teachings of their religious power core.

That i do agree with you on. Unless they become more tolerant and change the government to one that is not based on Religion, it will be very hard for this to happen. Whatever floats their boat. I dont like a government based on Religion, so i live here. But you bet your ass, if this becomes a Christian Nation, that i wont live here either. I wont whine or bitch, i will just leave. Everyone has that choice.

Of course, we would kidnap and murder foreign citizens who planned a coup against our democratically elected president, hijacked our country and made it to emulate theirs.

Which of the American citizens kidnapped and/or killed as part of the Embassy takeover was involved in any of what you allege? Someone in the CIA 25 years later is accountable for the actions in the mid-fifties? Journalists are planning a coup? Really, you get more and more ridiculous with this blind fervor to defend Iran and it's actions.

I admit the blunders and fuck-ups of my government. You, on the other hand, seem to be polishing the apple of the Iraniain Propaganda Minister, with all this blind fervor of yours in trashing the US and defending Iran's actions. Are you planning on moving there in the near future?

Unless they become more tolerant and change the government to one that is not based on Religion

That is the rub. This is not a government based on religion. It is a government made up of religious men and religious scholars, who are practicing their religion according to the militaristic writings of a historic general.

We run into the same problem in the US when leaders want to push their version of what is the appropriate method of practicing religion, and what behaviors should be allowed or outlawed.

Everyone either believes in the existence of one God, or they don't. Where we get to fighting over it all is in how our "prophets", like Mohammed and Jesus Christ, relayed their versions of the "way" to practice our beliefs, and which "way" we decide is right for us. Then, we always seem to want to impose our belief in the right "way" onto others.

Which of the American citizens kidnapped and/or killed as part of the Embassy takeover was involved in any of what you allege? Someone in the CIA 25 years later is accountable for the actions in the mid-fifties? Journalists are planning a coup? Really, you get more and more ridiculous with this blind fervor to defend Iran and it's actions.

I admit the blunders and fuck-ups of my government. You, on the other hand, seem to be polishing the apple of the Iraniain Propaganda Minister, with all this blind fervor of yours in trashing the US and defending Iran's actions. Are you planning on moving there in the near future?

I just dont see taking your country back and bringing down the symbol of the people responsible for it as a horrible thing. Anytime an innocent person is harmed its horrible, but using that situation as the big reason Iran is evil is quite frankly idiotic.

That is the rub. This is not a government based on religion. It is a government made up of religious men and religious scholars, who are practicing their religion according to the militaristic writings of a historic general.

We run into the same problem in the US when leaders want to push their version of what is the appropriate method of practicing religion, and what behaviors should be allowed or outlawed.

Everyone either believes in the existence of one God, or they don't. Where we get to fighting over it all is in how our "prophets", like Mohammed and Jesus Christ, relayed their versions of the "way" to practice our beliefs, and which "way" we decide is right for us. Then, we always seem to want to impose our belief in the right "way" onto others.

Very true, That is why personally even though I am Muslim by association you could say (since I am born to two muslim parents) I do not believe in Religion. Religion causes so many problems.

However i do believe in accountability, and i despise Hypocrisy.

Well, other than the fact they are both Republics (one Democratic, the other Islamic) there are big differences.
I think the biggest difference, I can see is that while the United States has religious men in the government, Iran has men of religion in the government.
The difference being, if a US Senator/Congressman/President says "God told me Iran sucks.", we'd all look at him like he was a fool, and go on with our lives.
But when a member of the Counsel of Guardians or the Supreme Leader of Iran says "Allah has spoken to me, and says the United States sucks." There is flag burning, and "Death to America" chants all around. All supported by the government.
Jedd, you have done a pretty good job at shining a positive light on Iran. Have you ever thought about becoming an ambassador?

I think Jedd should make a trip to Iran and see how well he is welcomed there. I'd be curious to know of his vacation.

I think Jedd is vicariously aware already of the kind of treatment he might expect. I don't fault him for being patriotic to his ancestral lands and trying to "shine a positive light" on Iran, as Sixee put it, but the original post's examples were terribly deficient. At an individual level, I'm sure the average Iranian isn't all that different in wants and needs from the individual American, but culturally and politically there's a real gulf that should be recognized and taken into account.

Seems that Jedd is in love with his Iran. I like the few responses to the tune of "if you don't like it, dont live there".... I for sure am not going to live there and I bet millions of Iranians would MUCH rather be in the US if they had the means.

However, I didn't know I would get to pee standing up over there.... I'm more on the fence than ever now.

The difference being, if a US Senator/Congressman/President says "God told me Iran sucks.", we'd all look at him like he was a fool, and go on with our lives.
But when a member of the Counsel of Guardians or the Supreme Leader of Iran says "Allah has spoken to me, and says the United States sucks." Umm...I know early in Bush's career he did state that he believed it was the will of God that he was in office - which scared the bujungees out of me. I'm also fairly certain, but can't find evidence this morning, that he did allude at some point to believing God wanted him to attack/invade Iraq. We have someone with very strong religious views in office, and although we may have tried to ignore him and go about our lives, he clearly has used that viewpoint to his advantage to build a powerbase and take action repeatedly based on his religious views - including blocking actions domestically.

Seems that Jedd is in love with his Iran. I like the few responses to the tune of "if you don't like it, dont live there".... I for sure am not going to live there and I bet millions of Iranians would MUCH rather be in the US if they had the means.

However, I didn't know I would get to pee standing up over there.... I'm more on the fence than ever now.

What is more curious is how is that enforced? Do they have pee guards? Like maybe being a pee guard is a stepping stone to being in the Revolutionary Guard....

PEON PEE GUARD: "Apoo was caught peeing standing up today; I watched him do it. He did it deliberatly and with malice!"

Higher-up PEE GUARD: "Congratulations Mohammed I'm going to recommend you for a promotion! You do an outstanding job of watching men pee. In a few more years you'll be in the revolutionary guard and your family will be able to something other than plain couscous!"

Umm...I know early in Bush's career he did state that he believed it was the will of God that he was in office - which scared the bujungees out of me. I'm also fairly certain, but can't find evidence this morning, that he did allude at some point to believing God wanted him to attack/invade Iraq. We have someone with very strong religious views in office, and although we may have tried to ignore him and go about our lives, he clearly has used that viewpoint to his advantage to build a powerbase and take action repeatedly based on his religious views - including blocking actions domestically.

Is Bush a member of the clergy? Were there any flag burnings and chants of "Death to Iraq."?
The subject of this thread is how the two countries are similar, and I point out the vast differences in how the citizens of these countries react under a similar situation.
Any similarity of the Iranian Government, and the Bush Administration are passing at best.

Maybe it's more the alarmist in me that sees that as a possibility down the line, especially if our next president follows Bush's example in the slightest. But the connection between the initial comment - a leader claiming religion as a reason to attack/invade another country - most certainly exists, and we let ours get away with it.

a leader claiming religion as a reason to attack/invade another country - most certainly exists, and we let ours get away with it. huh? I don't think we've waged war against a country for religious reasons since Wilson.

Listen, I am not trying to sell you on Iran being this great country where we can all live in peace and should move from America.

Not at all.

I am simply pointing out that there are not enough reasons to attack this country. Just because we do not agree with how the country is run, does not give us the right to take action against them.

If it did then we would have so many on the list to attack. Simply i tell you that they have not broken their word, they are complying with the IAEA, by the very UN that is now telling them to stop enrichment they have been given the go ahead because of the resolution that sais

All nations are given the right to pursue and maintain Nuclear Energy, as is their sovereign right.

No reasons i have seen here have shed any doubt on the fact that Iran is not after Nuclear weapons. All i see is possibly, if, maybe, what if, and you never knows.

Just because we do not agree with how the country is run. Personally, I don't give a f* how your precious country is run... it's all the other stuff it does to promote and actually fund/arm terrorists outside its borders that gives us a right to take action against it.

Personally, I don't give a f* how your precious country is run... it's all the other stuff it does to promote and actually fund/arm terrorists outside its borders that gives us a right to take action against it.

Well then i guess there is nothing left to say to you but this...

Will bombing Iran stop terrorism, or create more terrorists?

And perhaps Blackwater can be deemed a Terrorist organization? Unlawfull Combatants at the very least no?

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/10/15/4542/

Personally, I don't give a f* how your precious country is run... it's all the other stuff it does to promote and actually fund/arm terrorists outside its borders that gives us a right to take action against it.

Now when they do it, it's called "Taking back what was stolen from them."

When we do it it's called, "Sticking our noses in countries' business where it doesn't belong....

Aren't double standards great?

If it did then we would have so many on the list to attack. Simply i tell you that they have not broken their word, they are complying with the IAEA, by the very UN that is now telling them to stop enrichment they have been given the go ahead because of the resolution that sais sais ? huh?

What parallel world you living in ?

http://www.iaea.org/NewsCenter/Focus/IaeaIran/unsc_res1747-2007.pdf

Concerned by the proliferation risks presented by the Iranian nuclear programme and, in this context, by Iran’s continuing failure to meet the requirements of the IAEA Board of Governors and to comply with the provisions of Security Council resolutions 1696 (2006) and 1737 (2006),

Will bombing Iran stop terrorism, or create more terrorists? Are you stuck on stupid? Stop with the BOMB already.

sais ? huh?

What parallel world you living in ?

http://www.iaea.org/NewsCenter/Focus/IaeaIran/unsc_res1747-2007.pdf

One more time for the mentally handicapped...


Regarding the implementation of Agency safeguards in the Islamic Republic of Iran, Dr. ElBaradei made four points:



The Agency has been able to verify the non-diversion of declared nuclear material in Iran;

Iran has provided the Agency with additional information and access needed to resolve a number of long outstanding issues, such as the scope and nature of past plutonium experiments;

Contrary to the decisions of the Security Council, calling on Iran to take certain confidence-building measures, Iran has not suspended its enrichment related activities, and is continuing with its construction of the heavy water reactor at Arak – "this is regrettable", he commented; and

While the Agency so far has been unable to verify certain important aspects relevant to the scope and nature of Iran´s nuclear programme, Iran and the Secretariat agreed last month on a work plan for resolving all outstanding verification issues.
A more RECENT quote from the IAEA then your link.

http://www.iaea.org/NewsCenter/News/2007/dg_gcstatement.html

And you actually read the last two of those 4 points? And calling me mentally handicapped?

I suppose all is sunshine and roses now, let's remove those sanctions pronto. /smirk

I tried to point that out in another thread, but was dismissed.
My guess is that the "certain important aspects relevant to the scope and nature of Iran's nuclear Programme" has nothing to do with making bombs.
After all, Jedd, and Ahmadinnerjacket said it doesn't....
I wonder if the agreement on a work plan for resolving all outstanding verification issues includes beheading the Secretariat?

And you actually read the last two of those 4 points? And calling me mentally handicapped?

I suppose all is sunshine and roses now, let's remove those sanctions pronto. /smirk

3rd point sais that Iran has not halted enrichment as the U.N. has asked them to do, not the IAEA.

and the 4th point sais that They have put together a plan to take care of all the unsanswered questions basically in the coming months.

While the Agency so far has been unable to verify certain important aspects relevant to the scope and nature of Iran´s nuclear programme, Iran and the Secretariat agreed last month on a work plan for resolving all outstanding verification issues.

Iran has stated they will not halt because they feel that they are being unjustly forced to do so, as is true in reference to the other UN resolution which sais that they have the right to nuclear energy.

The 3rd point is the only one which can be seen as defiance by Iran, and quite frankly, who has the right to stop them if all the other points are covered?

Haythem could only recognize his oldest boy from his tall and slim physique as well as what was left of his shoes. His son's head had been blown away, his body charred beyond recognition. His wife of more than 20 years was torn apart. http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/2007/WORLD/meast/10/16/dad.blackwater/art.family.jpg Ahmed and his mother, Mahassen, were killed in the September 16 shootings in Baghdad.


"Only part of her neck and jaw remained," Haythem told CNN. The rest of her was covered by a body bag.

Choking back tears, he said, "Killing them was not enough, blowing up their skulls, they burned them and disfigured them."

Haythem's wife, Mahassen, and his 20-year-old son, Ahmed, were among the 17 Iraqi civilians killed and 27 others wounded in a hail of gunfire September 16 in Baghdad. http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/.element/img/2.0/mosaic/tabs/video.gif Watch Haythem's video of the charred wreckage » (http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/10/16/dad.blackwater/index.html#cnnSTCVideo)

Guards working for private security firm Blackwater USA are accused of opening fire on the Iraqis.

The Iraqi government has said the Blackwater guards shot without provocation -- something the U.S.-based contractor has denied, saying the guards were in a firefight with gunmen.



http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/10/16/dad.blackwater/index.html


Still waiting to see what you think of Blackwater?

Are they unlawfull combatants? Terrorists? No they are American right, so that just means they made a mistake?

I thought Iranians hated Iraqis?
Now I'm confused....Wait, is what makes us "not so different", that we hate Iraqis too?
Or that like Iran, we sponsor (pay) people to go to a foreign country and fight there?

I thought Iranians hated Iraqis?
Now I'm confused....Wait, is what makes us "not so different", that we hate Iraqis too?
Or that like Iran, we sponsor (pay) people to go to a foreign country and fight there?

So you are not going to answer the question, but instead pose one that has no relevance to the original question?

As an American, i care!

Still waiting to see what you think of Blackwater?

Are they unlawfull combatants? Terrorists? No they are American right, so that just means they made a mistake?

I think they are both personally. If what has come out is true, they should be tried in Iraq for their crimes there and serve whatever sentence the Iraqis see fit up too and including death.

I thought the original statement was that Iranians, and Americans aren't all that different....
I was just trying to speak to the original point as far as Blackwater/Hamas allowing the countries to be similar.
There's the difference: the Blackwater employees will be held accountable in a court of law, and the Hamas "employees" won't.

I think they are both personally. If what has come out is true, they should be tried in Iraq for their crimes there and serve whatever sentence the Iraqis see fit up too and including death.

Agreed

There's the difference: the Blackwater employees will be held accountable in a ourt of law, and the Hamas "employees" won't.This has yet to be determined.

I thought the original statement was that Iranians, and Americans aren't all that different....
I was just trying to speak to the original point as far as Blackwater/Hamas allowing the countries to be similar.
There's the difference: the Blackwater employees will be held accountable in a court of law, and the Hamas "employees" won't.

We have veered very far off the original statement of this post, and in response to your Blackwater/Hamas comparison.

Hamas members would be either killed, or captured and taken to Gitmo by the United States, so i dont see where your going with that comparison.

Where as Blackwater members will most likely be tried in American courts without any respect for the Iraqi governments right to handle the trial and punishment, and Blackwater will NOT be labeled a Terrorist organization.

However Hamas and Blackwater are very different, and i will not deny that.

Are they [Blackwater] unlawfull combatants? Terrorists? Let's see, sovereign government allowing them in their country for security reasons.
Sovereign government asking them to leave now after this horrible incident. Blackwater will assumalby comply and leave....

Wow, yeah, that's just like Hamas and the Iranian Republican Guard's terrorists actions against their neighbor nations.

Are you that blinded that you can't see the difference?

Let's see, soverign government allowing them in their country for security reasons. Soverign government asking them to leave now after this horrible incident. Blackwater will assumalby comply and leave....

Wow, yeah, that's just like Hamas and the Iranian Republican Guard's terrorists actions against their neighbor nations.

What the hell is wrong with you? Are you that blind that you can't see the difference?

Hamas wasn't always a "Terrorist organization"

Besides did you miss the part where i said they are different?

However Hamas and Blackwater are very different, and i will not deny that.

OPEN YOUR EYES... READING COMPREHENSION PLEASE!


BAGHDAD, Sept. 22 -- Senior Iraqi officials repeatedly complained to U.S. officials about Blackwater USA (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Blackwater+USA?tid=informline)'s alleged involvement in the deaths of numerous Iraqis, but the Americans took little action to regulate the private security firm until 11 Iraqis were shot dead last Sunday, according to U.S. and Iraqi officials.

Before that episode, U.S. officials were made aware in high-level meetings and formal memorandums of Blackwater's alleged transgressions. They included six violent incidents this year allegedly involving the North Carolina (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/North+Carolina?tid=informline) firm that left a total of 10 Iraqis dead, the officials said.

"There were no concrete results," Lt. Gen. Hussein Kamal, the deputy interior minister who oversees the private security industry on behalf of the Iraqi government, said in an interview Saturday.

The lack of a U.S. response underscores the powerlessness of Iraqi officials to control the tens of thousands of security contractors who operate under U.S.-drafted Iraqi regulations that shield them from Iraqi laws. It also raises questions about how seriously the United States will seek to regulate Blackwater, now the subject of at least three investigations by Iraqi and U.S. authorities. Blackwater, which operates under State Department (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/U.S.+Department+of+State?tid=informline) authority, protects nearly all senior U.S. politicians and civilian officials here.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/22/AR2007092201424.html

Really Akipt? Seems like they were powerless to me...

However Hamas and Blackwater are very different, and i will not deny that. But yet you accused them of being a terrorist organization just 10 posts ago.

In the past week you've made probably over 200 posts, all with huge copy/pastes from every dubious source on the internet. Am I supposed to keep track of all your bull shit? Haha. I don't think you can keep track of all your moral equivalent arguments.

But yet you accused them of being a terrorist organization just 10 posts ago.

In the past week you've made probably over 200 posts, all with huge copy/pastes from every dubious source on the internet. Am I supposed to keep track of all your bull shit? Haha. I don't think you can keep track of all your moral equivalent arguments.

I asked you if you thought they should be labeled as a terrorist organization, and then agreed with someone else. Blackwater very well maybe terrorists as it is what they are doing in Iraq. Inciting Terror amongst the local populace.

I did not once say Blackwater and Hamas were one in the same, and I also was not the one to involve Hamas in the conversation.

Refute my claim... i beg of you.

We have been labeling drug cartels as terrorists for years and there just pushing Powder. " not radiactive atm."

Jedd, I thought you'd like this bit about the US taking property from Mexico comparison. Thou drugs are bad mmm~kay. We havent taking over S America yet and there not trying to play THERMAL NUCLEAR WAR. cept maybe Chavez if he had the funding and connections.


MEXICO CITY — A proposed massive American aid package to fight violent drug cartels has sparked a collective bout of hand-wringing in Mexico, where anything hinting at U.S. intervention has long been viewed with suspicion.

For months, Mexico has been consumed with news of the proposed package, although little has been publicly revealed besides its price tag: a reported $1.4 billion over two years, on par with what Colombia receives as part of its controversial drug-eradication.

Felipe Calderón has stepped up military's involvement in drug fight.




Mexico, which has had more than 2,000 drug-related slayings this year, might be expected to welcome such a bounty with open arms. But the nations' mutual history, which includes the loss of a third of Mexico's territory to the United States, makes any U.S. involvement in Mexico a touchy subject.

President Felipe Calderón's government has pursued American assistance, but opposition politicians have argued that the aid package would violate Mexico's sovereignty. Polls show that most Mexicans oppose the help.

Concern has centered not on the aid itself, which probably will be used to pay for military and law enforcement training and equipment such as helicopters, but on what might accompany it.

Analysts on both sides of the border say the aid most likely will come with some level of oversight from the U.S. Congress, which may be hard for Mexican agencies, unaccustomed to a public accounting of any kind, to swallow.

"There will be an enormous amount of scrutiny and a lot of questions on how the money is used and how effective Mexico's anti-narcotic strategy is," said Ana Maria Salazar, a Mexico City analyst and former U.S. deputy assistant secretary of defense for drug enforcement policy and support. "That will always be an uncomfortable factor."

Presidents Bush and Calderón are expected to announce details of the plan in two or three weeks, when the proposals are expected to be sent to the nations' respective congresses for approval.

American officials have praised Mexico's recent drug-fighting efforts, saying military crackdowns on the cartels have disrupted the flow of drugs into the United States.

"Calderón has done a phenomenal job in addressing the cartels and criminal gangs," said U.S. Rep. Silvestre Reyes, D-El Paso, who has pushed for the aid package. "I think they warrant and deserve our assistance."

Mexico's complicated relationship with the United States causes Mexican officials to chafe at comparisons to Plan Colombia, as the Colombian aid package is known, and to lecture reporters who have baptized the proposed aid package "Plan Mexico."

Analysts also worry that the aid may come with increased pressure to allow American agents to carry weapons and pursue drug traffickers on Mexican soil, long a goal of U.S. law enforcement.

Mexican and U.S. officials have insisted that the package will not include an American military presence in Mexico, as exists in Colombia.

Calderón's political opponents have railed against the package, some to make political hay, others because they fear the money will bring the nation's drug-fighting strategy under American control.

"Mexico is a country that can afford to pay the cost of the plan," Manuel Camacho Solis, a top official in the leftist Democratic Revolution Party, wrote recently in a newspaper column. "It represents just a small proportion of public and oil-related income. On the other hand, accepting the donation puts us completely in the hands of the United States government."

Leftists in Mexico have also expressed concern that the aid package could be used to go after guerrilla groups and other political opponents of the government.

Meanwhile, there is concern on both sides of the border about the Mexican military's human rights record and its effectiveness in fighting the drug cartels.

While the military's involvement was initially meant to be temporary, the aid plan could give it a permanent role. According to published reports, 40 percent of the money in the aid package would go to the military, and the rest would go to police agencies.

Calderón's decision after taking office late last year to step up the military's involvement in drug enforcement initially caused an unprecedented surge in violence. Mexico averaged almost 100 drug-related killings a week earlier this year. Dozens of police and public officials were gunned down.

The violence decreased over the summer as the nation's two major cartels reportedly entered into a truce. Supporters called the truce, which proved short-lived, proof that the military pressure worked.

Critics said the violence had more to do with the internal workings of the cartels than with anything that Calderón's government did. Recently, violence has spiked again.

Human rights groups say the military has committed a host of atrocities during its battle with drug traffickers. Mexico's human rights commissioner has recommended sending the military back to its barracks, citing numerous abuses.

For example, four soldiers were sentenced in connection with the rape of 14 women in the border state of Coahuila in July 2006, and a family of five was gunned down as they drove through a military checkpoint in Sinaloa in June. Seven soldiers involved in the incident later tested positive for marijuana and cocaine.

"We could be entering a spiral in which we strengthen the presence of the military," said Jose Luis Pineyro, a national security expert. "Time will tell if there are more pros than cons with this plan."

Just found a nice video while reading some other forums, and thought id post it. Once again, this is not meant to make a point, but i found it a pretty uplifting video about Iran.

If it interests you, take a look.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vA4I6tc6xJY

It interests no one you prat, nobody gives a shit about your pro-Nuclear views.

Can it and fuck off.

Halo, I think you hurt his feelings.....

It interests no one you prat, nobody gives a shit about your pro-Nuclear views.

Can it and fuck off.

Wow your rude ;)

Wow your rude ;)

His what is rude?

His attitude really, kinda aggressive, but that's fine. I can handle it

If you are going to leave feedback calling people illiterate, you should at least make some effort to use the proper your/you're.

Ignorant, American Terrorist. In your old age you must have forgot what America stands for <----Jedd Corpse

Fun lil message you sent along with neg rep hit Jedd. Good to know we're getting through that 14th century brainwashing you were subjected to.

Fandros

Ignorant, American Terrorist. In your old age you must have forgot what America stands for <----Jedd Corpse

Fun lil message you sent along with neg rep hit Jedd. Good to know we're getting through that 14th century brainwashing you were subjected to.

Fandros

The difference between you assholes and me is that i dont post all your neg rep hits with stupid messages. I just neg rep hit you back when i see a post that deserves it. Believe me, i send just as many positive rep hits.

Keep acting like children crying over losing rep...

Who's crying? I'm making fun of your insane mentality boobalah.

Top that off your tiny rep hits can't make a fly sweat ;P

Who's crying? I'm making fun of your insane mentality boobalah.

Top that off your tiny rep hits can't make a fly sweat ;P

Are you seriously an adult?

What in the hell are you jabbering about now O Spawn of the fleas that hung from Legendary Yuego's nutsack?

Back on topic, please....

I'd support another Israeli air strike on any and all impending nuclear facilities that might sprout up in Iran. They are still a terrorist support state that is clearly not wise enough to give an open Pandora's box to.

What in the hell are you jabbering about now O Spawn of the fleas that hung from Legendary Yuego's nutsack?


LOL

Yuegou was a bitch who was too pussy to come down after all his threats, after i posted my address on the forums.

'Halo, I think you hurt his feelings.....'

Feelings? No, no, you see...Jedd is not a person. The name is actually short for Jedd'Herzera Propoganda Station, an Iranian internet programme that draws all the fucking shit from online and automatically posts new items on Western forums in the hope of improving Iranian sympathies.

The Jedd'Herzera Pro 4500 has no feelings.

The Jedd'Herzera Pro 4500 has no feelings.

Praise be to Allah!!!

And I thought Shemp was entertaining.

Jedd takes the couscous.

Fandros, that's why I suggested a 70 year period before they would be allowed to pursue any form of nuclear energy.
It's highly doubtful Iran would exist in its current state for that amount of time. It would either moderate its stance, be taken out by a bigger, stronger nation, or implode into another "Revolution".

The fact that Jedd agrees with my suggestion, however, makes me want to rethink it.....

'Halo, I think you hurt his feelings.....'

Feelings? No, no, you see...Jedd is not a person. The name is actually short for Jedd'Herzera Propoganda Station, an Iranian internet programme that draws all the fucking shit from online and automatically posts new items on Western forums in the hope of improving Iranian sympathies.

The Jedd'Herzera Pro 4500 has no feelings.

What i find astounding is the level of immaturity on these forums. However wrong you may think i am, your entitled to that opinion as much as i am to mine. If you do not want to discuss the issues i bring up, then do not.

In America the demonization of any country our leaders have their sights set on is a common tactic. Iran hates jews? Do they really?

"Whatever they say abroad is lies - we are comfortable in Iran - if you're not political and don't bother them then they won't bother you," he explains.

"In the last five years the government has allowed Iranian Jews to go to Israel freely, meet their families and when they come back they face no problems," says Mr Mohtamed.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5367892.stm

And who can forget 9/11


9/11 opportunity

In the wake of the 11 September 2001 attacks on the US, there were some tentative steps.

In Iran, vast crowds turned out on the streets and held candlelit vigils for the victims. Sixty-thousand spectators respected a minute's silence at Tehran's football stadium.





http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5367892.stm

And what does Iran get after all this, and helping the US against the Taliban?


And just a few weeks after Iran and the US had worked so closely over Afghanistan, Iran was described by President George W Bush as part of an "axis of evil" in his 2002 State of the Union address.

Javad Zarif, now Iran's ambassador to the United Nations, said this was a big surprise after the co-operation over the Afghan government.

"We were all shocked by the fact that the US had such a short memory and was so ungrateful about what had happened just a month ago," he said.




Why am I an anti american terrorist for pointing this stuff out? Because you dont agree with me?

And the icing on the cake!


So Tehran made a dramatic - but surprisingly little known - approach to the Americans.

Iran's offer came in the form of a letter, although Iranian diplomats have suggested that their letter was in turn a response to a set of talking points that had come from US intermediaries.

In it, Iran appeared willing to put everything on the table - including being completely open about its nuclear programme, helping to stabilise Iraq, ending its support for Palestinian militant groups and help in disarming Hezbollah.

What did Iran want? Top of the list was a halt in US hostile behaviour and a statement that "Iran did not belong to 'the axis of evil'".

The letter was the product of an internal debate inside Tehran and had the support of leaders at the highest level.

"That letter went to the Americans to say that we are ready to talk, we are ready to address our issues," explains Seyed Adeli, who was then a deputy foreign minister in Iran. But in Washington, the letter was ignored.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5377914.stm

I remember this South Park episode where the guys all ignored Cartman, so he naturally assumed he had died and was a ghost.

Anyway, one can wish.

But Butters could see and hear him!

I'm starting to believe Halo.
I don't think Jedd can make a post without cutting/pasting something that backs his stance of "Iran is just all right by me, OH YEAH!" (think Jesus is just all right by the Byrds).


Iran is just all right with me
Iran is just all right, Oh yeah
Iran is just all right with me
Iran is just all right

I don't care what they may know
I don't care where they may go
I don't care what they may know
Iran is just all right, oh yeah
Iran is just all right

I don't care what they may say
I don't care what they may do
I don't care what they may say
Iran is just all right, oh yeah
Iran is just all right

Do, do, do, etc.

Iran is just all right with me
Iran is just all right, Oh yeah
Iran is just all right with me
Iran is just all right
Iran is just all right with me
Iran is just all right, Oh yeah
Iran is just all right with me
Iran is just all right

But Butters could see and hear him!

I'm starting to believe Halo.
I don't think Jedd can make a post without cutting/pasting something that backs his stance of "Iran is just all right by me, OH YEAH!" (think Jesus is just all right by the Byrds).

*sigh* why do i even bother.

At the very least here in California I am the majority. I guess all you backward states need to learn from California and modernize. The time of civilization conquering is coming to a close.

Then i leave you with this. Seeing as how the War is inevitable due to such warmongering asshats as yourself. This is what you are dooming our friends and family into facing, for bullshit reasons. With closed minds you have sealed the fate of the United States to be either the laughingstock of the world when we lose the war, or the evil of the world when we drop a nuke and claim that it saved more american lives then Iranians it killed.(sound familiar?)

You can laugh at these images all you want, but none of you truly know the will of the Iranians. They will fight untill there is not an ounce of strength left in their bodies. American soldiers are too used to entering a battle with the Advantage, and as such will be the weaker when entering Iran.

I pray for both sides, and for everyone that dies i will mourn, but perhaps in the end, all is for good reason. Perhaps America will learn from its mistake, and with a new president a new set of values will arrive into this Nation with so much great history. Though i doubt Iran can recover from a War with America even one that is won in the end. I am confident that they are a strong and smart people, and that they will unite. I pray that I am not called to defend my country against the country of my Ancestors.

I am going to take a little break from posting about politics, so go ahead bait me and attempt to get me back in, but I will take a step back and wait to see what happens. All this speculation and debate is pointless, as My voice and the voices of so many that agree will always be alien to those who are so easily swayed by fake patriotism.

I leave you now, with some quotes i so truly believe in.

"People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." - Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." - Galileo Galilei
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." - Martin Luther King Jr. (1929-1968)
"I'm all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with typewriters." - Frank Lloyd Wright (1868-1959)

http://www.payvand.com/news/06/sep/Iran-march-to-war9.jpg

http://www.payvand.com/news/06/sep/Iran-march-to-war1.jpg

http://www.payvand.com/news/06/sep/Iran-march-to-war4.jpg

http://www.payvand.com/news/06/sep/Iran-march-to-war5.jpg

http://www.payvand.com/news/06/sep/Iran-march-to-war7.jpg

http://www.payvand.com/news/06/sep/Iran-march-to-war8.jpg

http://www.payvand.com/news/06/sep/Iran-march-to-war11.jpg

http://www.payvand.com/news/06/sep/Iran-march-to-war12.jpg

http://www.payvand.com/news/06/sep/Iran-march-to-war13.jpg


http://www.payvand.com/news/05/sep/iran-military-parade1.jpg

http://www.payvand.com/news/05/sep/iran-military-parade3.jpg

http://www.payvand.com/news/05/sep/iran-military-parade4.jpg

http://www.acig.org/artman/uploads/03_002.jpg

http://www.acig.org/artman/uploads/06_001.jpg

http://www.acig.org/artman/uploads/12_003b.jpg

http://www.battletanks.com/images/Challenger_1-3.jpg

http://www.acig.org/artman/uploads/cphoto12.jpg

http://www.battletanks.com/images/Challenger_I_mod.jpg (http://www.battletanks.com/images/Challenger_I_mod.jpg)




http://www.battletanks.com/images/Challenger_1_Bosnia_WEB.jpg (http://www.battletanks.com/images/Challenger_I_mod.jpg)




http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42127000/jpg/_42127548_flagburning203ap.jpg (http://www.battletanks.com/images/Challenger_I_mod.jpg)





Peace - Jedd

If we go to war, it won't be as an invasion. Just missiles and bombs.

Wow, that post was filled with so many inconsistencies and half-truths, I don't know where to begin.....

At the very least here in California I am the majority. I guess all you backward states need to learn from California and modernize. The time of civilization conquering is coming to a close.

Last time I checked, California, while still a very large state, still constitutes less than half of the US population (Don't count the illegals for this purpose.) This is a clear cut example of a person who surrounds themselves with others of the same view, and can't understand how they can possibly be in the minority.

Then i leave you with this. Seeing as how the War is inevitable due to such warmongering asshats as yourself. This is what you are dooming our friends and family into facing, for bullshit reasons. With closed minds you have sealed the fate of the United States to be either the laughingstock of the world when we lose the war, or the evil of the world when we drop a nuke and claim that it saved more american lives then Iranians it killed.(sound familiar?)
Since I can only assume you are talking about Hiroshima and Nagasaki, here's a little tidbit: The President that authorized the dropping of those H-Bombs was a Democrat. As a matter of fact, most of the Presidents that have taken the U.S. to war, have been Democrats.
You present the use of atomic weapons on Japan as if it was a knee jerk reaction, and not the end result of 4 years of fighting and dying of American soldiers, the casualties of which numbered 292,000 total.
Could you imagine if the death toll in any military operation reached those kinds of numbers, nowdays? What would the call to action, be for a President?

You can laugh at these images all you want, but none of you truly know the will of the Iranians. They will fight untill there is not an ounce of strength left in their bodies. American soldiers are too used to entering a battle with the Advantage, and as such will be the weaker when entering Iran.

I know Iranians are pretty tough when faced with unarmed diplomats and journalists.
Your comment regarding American soldiers is bordering on treasonous. You should go walk up to one and share your views with them. Once you recover from your broken jaw, I'm sure you'll rethink your comment about "Fake Patriotism".

I am going to take a little break from posting about politics, so go ahead bait me and attempt to get me back in, but I will take a step back and wait to see what happens.
Praise be to Allah!

" At the very least here in California I am the majority. I guess all you backward states need to learn from California and modernize. The time of civilization conquering is coming to a close. "

tell the Californians to stay in California and stop moving to Texas, I hate seeing my city turn into CA. Especially if they all " supposedly " believe in what you do about Iran Jedd.

Yes, Texas is a backwards ass state no one should live here its hot ugly the people talk funny and it takes forever to drive accross.

Jedd.. if those pictures you posted were what we had to worry about with Iran, we would have invaded yesterday. Our Military is designed to take on all those things. It would systematically annihilate all conventional Iranian military assets in record time.

This is what we would have to worry about

http://www.inthebullpen.com/images/articles/iran_suicide.jpg

You know what the white shrouds mean

http://img325.imageshack.us/img325/1497/irannukemay25bjpgweb5hu.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v174/rednecktexan/2007/suicide_bomber.jpg

"The one with the Bullets follows the one with the Rifle, when the one with the rifle is killed, the one with the bullets picks it up and shoots"

http://www.battlefield.ru/books/enemy/009.jpg

(Yes, the Iranians have cloned Jude Law and will send wave after wave of him at us.)

(Yes, the Iranians have cloned Jude Law and will send wave after wave of him at us.)

Death by exposure to horrible acting? the humanity.

At the very least here in California I am the majority. I guess all you backward states need to learn from California and modernize.Idiot meet reality.

http://today.reuters.com/news/articleinvesting.aspx?type=fundsFundsNews&storyID=2007-10-14T231521Z_01_N14271162_RTRIDST_0_FINANCIAL-CALIFORNIA-IRAN-DIVEST.XML

Oct 14 (Reuters) - California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger signed a bill on Sunday, as he previously said he would, to bar the two biggest U.S. public pension funds from investing in companies doing business in Iran.

...

Schwarzenegger echoed the U.S. government's view of Iran's government as a state sponsor of terrorism.

"This year I am pleased to support additional efforts to further prevent terrorism by doing what's right with our investment portfolio and signing this legislation to divest from Iran," Schwarzenegger said.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v174/rednecktexan/2007/suicide_bomber.jpg


Damn it, we're at war with NIKE and just found out!

(think Jesus is just all right by the Byrds).


Doobie Brothers was the only version I ever heard. :rolleyes:

Doobie Brothers was the only version I ever heard. :rolleyes:
You know, I thought the same thing....
But the first site they pulled up said it was the Byrds......
Perhaps it was a cover?
Maybe Jedd can shed some light on it, since they love rock and roll in Iran.....

:eek:

That's alright, us Brits have cloned wave after wave of Sienna Miller's.

Maybe Jedd can shed some light on it, since they love rock and roll in Iran.....


They do love rock and roll in Iran, the problem is you get beheaded for playing or listening to it.

They do love rock and roll in Iran, the problem is you get beheaded for playing or listening to it.


Oh I have a great battle plan, then!
We don't need to send in a single soldier, or drop a single bomb.
All we have to do is drop boom boxes playing "The Devil's Music" all over the country.
Then the Morality Police will run about the country, beheading all that have heard it.
We win!
:D

We could write a song about this! Might go something like:

Now the king told the boogie men
You have to let that raga drop
The oil down the desert way
Has been shakin to the top
The sheik he drove his cadillac
He went a cruisnin down the ville
The muezzin was a standing
On the radiator grille

Chorus
The shareef dont like it
Rockin the casbah
Rock the casbah
The shareef dont like it
Rockin the casbah
Rock the casbah

By order of the prophet
We ban that boogie sound
Degenerate the faithful
With that crazy casbah sound
But the bedouin they brought out
The electric camel drum
The local guitar picker
Got his guitar picking thumb
As soon as the shareef
Had cleared the square
They began to wail

Chorus

Now over at the temple
Oh! they really pack em in
The in crowd say its cool
To dig this chanting thing
But as the wind changed direction
The temple band took five
The crowd caught a wiff
Of that crazy casbah jive

Chorus

The king called up his jet fighters
He said you better earn your pay
Drop your bombs between the minarets
Down the casbah way

As soon as the shareef was
Chauffeured outta there
The jet pilots tuned to
The cockpit radio blare

As soon as the shareef was
Outta their hair
The jet pilots wailed

Chorus

He thinks its not kosher
Fundamentally he cant take it.
You know he really hates it.

They do love rock and roll in Iran, the problem is you get beheaded for playing or listening to it.But but they love the jew!

Moderately related, more a point of interest than anything else:

http://www.memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=IA39807

No idea at all on the authenticity. I like political cartoons however, so these with their anti-terrorism angle were interesting.

Good find, Kanyli.

http://www.memri.org/images/uploaded/ia_39807_8.jpg

'He thinks its not kosher
Fundamentally he cant take it.
You know he really hates it.'

- Rofl!

Things have just gotten a tad more tense with Iran and it's nuclear program.

Ali Larijani, the chief nuclear negotiator for Iran, has resigned. While Ahmanutjob was busy posturing and declaring Iran will not back down, Larijani was the voice of the moderate Iranian people handling the negotiations with Europe and the IAEA, and was part of a small group of officials who were trying to temper the Iranian President's positions.

Larijani was appointed by Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. Ahmanutjob apparently has Khamenei's blessings to continue with his hardline approach, appointing an ally to fill the position now.

How much any of this can be related to the recent visit of Putin remains to be seen, but it does ratchet up the tension in the Mideast, knowing that Iran will now be even more uncompromising regarding their nuclear aims.


On a side note, last night SNL rebroadcast the LeBron James episode with the love song to Ahmanutjob skit, and once again I did not get it copied. :(